11 replies to this topic

[Nate-2004]

So I was at the dermatologist trying Juvederm for the first time and she put something called Alastin on my face at the end of the procedure. She suggested it as an option but said it was expensive. It is in fact very expensive, $200 per bottle. I looked all over for reviews and only one person on Reddit responded with the opinion that it's a scam since their website rejected their bad review of it. They said it didn't even moisturize much less improve anything. 

 

However, still open to possibilities. 

 

Are there other similar elastin promoting products that are cheaper?

Edited by Nate-2004, 13 December 2018 - 09:54 PM.

[Phoebus]

I hate their website because it just says "Alastin does this and that and the other thing!"

 

but it doesn't say HOW it does any of that or even what its active ingredients are. 

 

I would look into elastase inhibitors. 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/17447201

[Nate-2004]

Thanks, this study is very interesting. I wish I could copy/paste some of the details here but there are embedded Adobe fonts I don't have and OCR just messes the whole thing up.

 

It's from 2007 though, surely there's more progress since this effort to inhibit HNE began. 

 

It appears that HNE builds up over time. Its normal function is to break down foreign proteins but apparently due to a number of factors. For instance, there are endogenous inhibitors of HNE (alpha-1-antitrypsin, elafin, and the secretory leukocyte proteinase inhibitor) that in younger people act as a control on these enzymes. Here is why:

 

Large quantities of oxidants and proteases released by leukocytes that are recruited to the site of inflammation can inactivate these endogenous inhibitors. Moreover, tight adhesion of neutrophils to the ECM leads to the compartmentalization of the released proteases between the neutrophil and the ECM, thereby excluding the large, circulating protease inhibitors. Tight binding of extracellular HNE to the cell membrane can render it inaccessible to circulating endogenous inhibitors. Altogether, the imbalance between HNE and its inhibitors caused by these events provokes severe tissue injuries resulting in a variety of diseases.

 

HNE starts breaking down elastase in an out of control sort of way. Once again inflammation is at the root.

 

It has become clear that serine proteases, such as HNE, have an important regulatory role in the local inflammatory response. Thus, its dysregulation resulting in its accumulation can be involved in the development of chronic inflammatory diseases, such as rheumatoid arthritis, pulmonary emphysema, adult respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS), cystic fibrosis, COPD, asthma, and delayed wound healing.

 

Rather than find exogenous inhibitors, why not attempt to free and enable the endogenous ones by addressing the root of the problem?  If uncontrolled elastase leads to all these diseases from arthritis to emphysema to slower wound healing, and our bodies have a built in means of controlling elastase, it makes sense to try and re-enable these means somehow.

 

Many of the exogenous inhibitors they test are the various flavonoids we often talk about all over this forum. These flavonoids are notorious for their lack of bioavailability. Many people including myself have tried several different methods of improving this by both topical and oral means to no real avail. The study here mentions this:

 

However, it has to be kept in mind that flavonoids are highly metabolized during oral application, and that some possible metabolites (such as 4-methylcatechol, 4-hydroxyphenylacetic acid and 3,4-dihydroxyphenylacetic acid ) exhibited a very low activity in the assay (IC50 range from 135 qM to > 400 juM, see Fig. 2A and Fig. 2B). Therefore, the in vitro studies mentioned above may be of limited therapeutic relevance and it is questionable that flavonoids may be orally active principles in a Drosera extract used to treat cough.

 

They say a very low IC50 value is achieved with EGCG (this means it is a strong inhibitor) but I've been taking that for a long time and it's actually in a lot of topical creams. It doesn't seem to do much in terms of restoring elastase in my opinion. If reversing the loss of elastase is the goal, then this is not exactly the outcome I'm seeing with EGCG.

 

So looking at exogenous possibilities...

 

Funny thing, they say stearic acid in this study was a fatty acid with the highest level of inhibition among saturated fats. Stearic acid has lengthy discussions in terms of fusion and stem cell proliferation in Turnbuckle's threads over in the aging theories forum.

 

Erucic acid, which I've looked into as a problem with consuming ground broccoli seeds for the sulforaphane content, had the most potent inhibitory effect of all.  An IC50 value of 450nM. The smallest amount will inhibit HNE by more than 50%. But what of the dangers of erucic acid? That's where oleic acid was mentioned which is also an omega 9 monounsaturated fatty acid capable of inhibiting HNE considerably, especially when they combined it with albumin.

 

Based on these results a formulation of oleic acid with albumin was developed for the treatment of chronic wounds. Albumin was used as a carrier for the hydrophobic oleic acid. Oleic acid/albumin formulations with mole ratios of 100:1, 50:1, and 25:1 showed a strong inhibition of HNE with IC50 values at 0.029-0.049 /iM. Albumin alone increased to a small extent the substrate conversion by HNE, which could be equalized by a higher concentration of inhibitor. The authors suppose that an increase of the albumin concentration may even have positive effects, since albumin level is decreased in chronic wounds. The formulation was still active (IC50 = 0.26-0.42 /iM), even after being bound to derivatized cotton.

 

So while albumin increased the substrate for HNE alone, more oleic canceled this out I assume. Not only that but the albumin might help heal wounds.

 

Mango butter is something I have on hand for the whole stem cell protocol. This is part largely stearic and oleic acid. I don't know about adding albumin but I may already have what I need, especially when I (hopefully) increase its bioavailability by adding phospholipids like soy lecithin and cocoa to the mix.

 

Resveratrol is also tested but of course, like all the flavonols, these are hardly bioavailable enough to work well in vivo. We've probably all been down this road.

 

So their conclusion in the study was that more study is needed of course. As I mentioned, addressing the root cause may be a more productive path, but there was not a complete description of how the endogenous inhibitors are thwarted from acting and moreover, how does the root cause affect any attempt to introduce exogenous inhibitors in vivo?

 

 

Edited by Nate-2004, 15 December 2018 - 06:02 PM.

[aribadabar]

 

 If reversing the loss of elastase is the goal, then this is not exactly the outcome I'm seeing with EGCG.

 

 

The opposite is actually sought as elastASE is the enzyme breaking down elasTIN which is what you should be looking to inhibit. So if EGCG is doing that, it should be welcome.

[Hip]

After I caught a nasty strain of coxsackievirus B4 that is in general circulation, I developed body-wide fine crêpe paper-like wrinkles on the skin, which I believe are the result of reduced elastin. Viral infection can increase the production of what are known as matrix metalloproteinases (MMPs), which are a family of enzymes which break down elastin, collagen and other connective tissue components. I caught my virus via kissing on a date.

 

Other people who caught the virus from me also developed this crêpe paper-like skin wrinkling. You can see pictures of the wrinkling on my hands at the bottom of this page of my website about the virus. In addition to skin wrinkling, the virus also caused sudden onset gum recession (periodontitis) in me and other who caught the virus. Periodontitis also involves these MMP enzymes breaking down elastin and collagen in gum tissues. A picture of my virally-caused receded gums is found half way down this webpage of my site.

 

 

Coxsackievirus B is a virus from the enterovirus genus. Other enteroviruses include echovirus, poliovirus, enterovirus D68 (which is the chief suspect for causing paralysis of children in the US), coxsackievirus A, and rhinovirus, a common cold virus. In most cases, enterovirus only causes acute infections which are cleared from the body by the immune response in a matter of weeks. Enterovirus cannot normally cause chronic, lifelong infections. 

 

But certain enteroviruses, which include coxsackievirus B and echovirus, are now understood to cause chronic intracellular infections that can last a lifetime. So once you catch coxsackievirus B and echovirus, you will likely have it in your tissues for life. These persistent lifelong enterovirus infections are called non-cytolytic enterovirus infections, and they are suspected of causing a number of diseases, including type 1 diabetes, dilated cardiomyopathy, mitral valve prolapse (a common heart valve disease), myalgic encephalomyelitis (chronic fatigue syndrome), and Parkinson's.

 

 

It's funny that people in the anti-aging longevity community think that the key to a long life is avoiding toxins and eating good food, along with taking beneficial supplements and drugs. Yet they usually don't make the link between nasty viral pathogens in common circulation and chronic disease and early death. But most of the common chronic diseases that reduce healthspan and lifespan have been linked to common pathogens that many of us already have in our bodies, having picked them up earlier in life.

 

Many of these disease-causing pathogens will be unsuspectingly picked up from kissing a new girlfriend or boyfriend. Often such viruses may cause no initial symptoms when we first catch them from other human beings, or may just cause minor symptoms like a sore throat or temporary gastrointestinal upset. But then a few years down the line, they may trigger a nasty chronic disease, like multiple sclerosis, heart disease, atherosclerosis, Crohn's disease, Alzheimer's disease, rheumatoid arthritis, and also mental heath diseases such as generalized anxiety disorder, bipolar, anorexia nervosa, OCD, etc.

 

One brilliant scientist who studies the connection between common pathogens and chronic diseases is Professor Paul W. Ewald. In this video, he discusses the link between common pathogens and cancer. He says that back in the 1970s, there were no cancers which had been linked to pathogens. But nowadays, we know that around 20% of cancers are caused by pathogens. Prof Ewald thinks that as we research the pathogen-cancer link, we will find that a lot more cancers are caused by infectious micro-organisms.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Hip, 28 December 2018 - 04:25 PM.

[sthira]

I caught my virus via kissing on a date.

"You remember all we were told about the torture-chambers, the fire and brimstone, the “burning marl.” Old wives’ tales! There’s no need for red-hot pokers. Hell is other people.”

Sartre, No Exit

[Nate-2004]

The opposite is actually sought as elastASE is the enzyme breaking down elasTIN which is what you should be looking to inhibit. So if EGCG is doing that, it should be welcome.

 

That was a typo.

[Daniel Cooper]

After I caught a nasty strain of coxsackievirus B4 that is in general circulation, I developed body-wide fine crêpe paper-like wrinkles on the skin, which I believe are the result of reduced elastin. Viral infection can increase the production of what are known as matrix metalloproteinases (MMPs), which are a family of enzymes which break down elastin, collagen and other connective tissue components. I caught my virus via kissing on a date.
 
Other people who caught the virus from me also developed this crêpe paper-like skin wrinkling. You can see pictures of the wrinkling on my hands at the bottom of this page of my website about the virus. In addition to skin wrinkling, the virus also caused sudden onset gum recession (periodontitis) in me and other who caught the virus. Periodontitis also involves these MMP enzymes breaking down elastin and collagen in gum tissues. A picture of my virally-caused receded gums is found half way down this webpage of my site.
 
 
Coxsackievirus B is a virus from the enterovirus genus. Other enteroviruses include echovirus, poliovirus, enterovirus D68 (which is the chief suspect for causing paralysis of children in the US), coxsackievirus A, and rhinovirus, a common cold virus. In most cases, enterovirus only causes acute infections which are cleared from the body by the immune response in a matter of weeks. Enterovirus cannot normally cause chronic, lifelong infections. 
 
But certain enteroviruses, which include coxsackievirus B and echovirus, are now understood to cause chronic intracellular infections that can last a lifetime. So once you catch coxsackievirus B and echovirus, you will likely have it in your tissues for life. These persistent lifelong enterovirus infections are called non-cytolytic enterovirus infections, and they are suspected of causing a number of diseases, including type 1 diabetes, dilated cardiomyopathy, mitral valve prolapse (a common heart valve disease), myalgic encephalomyelitis (chronic fatigue syndrome), and Parkinson's.
 
 
It's funny that people in the anti-aging longevity community think that the key to a long life is avoiding toxins and eating good food, along with taking beneficial supplements and drugs. Yet they usually don't make the link between nasty viral pathogens in common circulation and chronic disease and early death. But most of the common chronic diseases that reduce healthspan and lifespan have been linked to common pathogens that many of us already have in our bodies, having picked them up earlier in life.
 
Many of these disease-causing pathogens will be unsuspectingly picked up from kissing a new girlfriend or boyfriend. Often such viruses may cause no initial symptoms when we first catch them from other human beings, or may just cause minor symptoms like a sore throat or temporary gastrointestinal upset. But then a few years down the line, they may trigger a nasty chronic disease, like multiple sclerosis, heart disease, atherosclerosis, Crohn's disease, Alzheimer's disease, rheumatoid arthritis, and also mental heath diseases such as generalized anxiety disorder, bipolar, anorexia nervosa, OCD, etc.
 
One brilliant scientist who studies the connection between common pathogens and chronic diseases is Professor Paul W. Ewald. In this video, he discusses the link between common pathogens and cancer. He says that back in the 1970s, there were no cancers which had been linked to pathogens. But nowadays, we know that around 20% of cancers are caused by pathogens. Prof Ewald thinks that as we research the pathogen-cancer link, we will find that a lot more cancers are caused by infectious micro-organisms.

Too bad we don't have DRACO available.

So much interesting and likely useful science is stopped dead by our current drug approval regime.

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 17 January 2019 - 11:16 PM.

[Phoebus]

 

Too bad we don't have DRACO available.

So much interesting and likely useful science is stopped dead by our current drug approval regime.

 

 

Wow, what a fascinating read!

 

Why on earth is this not number one priority for us? There is literally nothing right now to kill herpes virus, and this shows so much promise and yet...

 

 

In 2015, an independent research group reported to have successfully observed antiviral activity against the porcine reproductive and respiratory syndrome virus (PRRSV) using DRACOs in vitro.^[5]

As of December 2015, research related to DRACOs had ground to a halt, for obscure reasons described variously as "murky" and "due to the extreme novelty of its mechanism".^[6]

 

Very odd. 

[JohnD60]

I visited their site. Was not impressed with any of the before/after pictures. Started reading their product description, stopped reading at "proprietary blend". Scam

[Nate-2004]

I visited their site. Was not impressed with any of the before/after pictures. Started reading their product description, stopped reading at "proprietary blend". Scam

 

Whose site? Who are you talking about?

[JBForrester]

I've only tried a sample of this twice thus far, and was very disappointed. If anything, what I observed was my pores were seemingly larger than before. Of course, I did not go back and purchase it due to that scare, so I don't really have a final say in whether it worked for my skin or not.