23 replies to this topic

[able]

Is this not posted this yet?  - seems like very good results to me.

 

Efficacy and tolerability of EH301 for amyotrophic lateral sclerosis: a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled human pilot study

 

All those who got 600 mg, twice a day for 4 months showed significant improvement in symptom.  

 

Bonus was fat loss and improved strength.

 

Seems to be hands down better than any of the other NR research on humans - actually shows significant benefit for health, not just elevating NAD+.

 

I noticed it from this review by Alivebynature, which is strange to me, since they sell NMN so why are they writing about it?

Edited by able, 25 January 2019 - 12:08 AM.

[HaplogroupW]

What reason  is there to think EH301 is Basis?

 

Edited by HaplogroupW, 25 January 2019 - 04:44 AM.

[stefan_001]

What reason  is there to think EH301 is Basis?

 

Its NR + Ptero they just use different names probably to obscure. I assume they will try to get exclusivity on this application and sell it as expensive medication. Google 1-(beta-D-Ribofuranosyl)nicotinamide chloride, 3,5-Dimethoxy-4′-hydroxy-trans-stilbene then you see. Moreover they refer to the NAD+ boosting studies in the report.

 

But apart from that, great results and good news for ALS patients - they can start buying NR immediately and feel better!

[Harkijn]

See also what went before:

https://alsnewstoday...eral-sclerosis/

Edited by Harkijn, 25 January 2019 - 07:38 AM.

[able]

It is quite sly.  I'm not sure whether to applaud or be disgusted.  

 

They seem to have written up the results to obscure the connection to Basis product.

 

Is that so they can get approval to sell it as a drug for 100x the price, and can hide the fact that it is basis?  So customers don't know they  could buy it, or Chromadex NR, or NMN that would work as good or better for pennies on the dollar?

 

I guess that is the market we have and they are just using the rules.  

 

But I don't see this as just good news for ALS sufferers.  

 

It is proof that even with the bioavailability problem that oral capsules have, NR still does really work in humans, and perhaps much of the benefits mice get in all the varied research will  prove effective in humans as well.

 

In the big picture, I see it as great news for Elysium and Chromadex, NR and NMN users, and maybe just about everyone eventually.

 

 

[Harkijn]

The full report is very open about the connection with Basis.

 

The dosage:1200mg daily via oral capsules. All EH users elected to continue taking it after the study.

Edited by Harkijn, 25 January 2019 - 10:10 AM.

[Heisok]

http://sci-hub.tw/10...21.2018.1536152

 

Saw this elsewhere.

[able]

The full report is very open about the connection with Basis.

 

The dosage:1200mg daily via oral capsules. All EH users elected to continue taking it after the study.

 

 

I don't understand why you say "report is very open about the connection with Basis"?

 

They don't use the words "basis", "nicotinamide riboside", or "pterostilbene" any where in the report (except in the titles of some of the references at the bottom".

 

They do say "had the option to continue taking EH301 on an open-label extension", but seem to go out of their way to avoid mentioning anything that would help a casual reader understand the "open-label extension" is Basis.

[bluemoon]

The study was completed in June 2017 so in this case 18 months for publication.   Other NR trials:

 

 

Chomadex's n=140 study completed in April 2017 and coming soon according to Charles Brenner.

 

Elysium trail of accute kidney disease completed in October 2018 so maybe an early 2020 publication. 

Maastricht University Medical Center metabolism and insulin sensitivity, completed in December 2018 so maybe a mid 2020 publication.

U of Iowa St. trial for on metabolism and vascular function following high-fat meal. Completed in December 2018 so maybe a mid 2020 publication.

U of Washington LVAD heat implant for heart failure complete in July 2019 so maybe an early 2021 publication.

U of Washington trial of heart failure patients complete in July 2019 so maybe an early 2021 publication.

Midwest Center for Metabolic and Cardiovascular Research trial on cognitive function complete in May 2019 so maybe an early 2021 publication.

University of Cambridge metabolic disease trial complete in May 2019 so maybe an early 2021 publication.

U of Minnesota / Mayo clinic concussion trial to be completed in June 2020 so maybe an early 2022 publication.

U of Texas cognitive trial, to be completed in December 2020 so maybe a mid 2022 publication.

 

-------------

 

3.5 years away from cognitive trial results.... 

 

 

Edited by bluemoon, 25 January 2019 - 09:11 PM.

[Harkijn]

I don't understand why you say "report is very open about the connection with Basis"?

 

They don't use the words "basis", "nicotinamide riboside", or "pterostilbene" any where in the report (except in the titles of some of the references at the bottom".

 

They do say "had the option to continue taking EH301 on an open-label extension", but seem to go out of their way to avoid mentioning anything that would help a casual reader understand the "open-label extension" is Basis.

To the casual reader this may seem so, but most pubmed readers are not that unprepared. I for one having no background in biochemistry or cellbiology at all, recognized the substance names instantly. Also the fact that Elysium Health is mentioned several times as contributor leaves little room for doubt. Mentioning a brand name would have been severely criticized by some as 'pumping '.

 

Anyway, I feel no special sympathy for Elysium, or Chromadex for that matter, and I am also uneasy about the long silence about much of NR research (and the extreme lenght of the recruiting phase of some new ones). Let's at least agree to be glad about a new ray of hope for ALS patients. An acquaintance of mine was diagnosed withALS some months ago . Medication seems without  effect so far, so I sent him this news of a possible attenuation.

[ledgf]

This is an impressive result indeed. Too bad they didn't just use NR, but that's the patent-medicine game... 

>18 months for publication.
 

Egad. The AVERAGE is ten months, (same as 30 years ago), which is bad enough. 18 months that ALS patients could have been taking NR and reducing their symptoms. 

[jabowery]

To the casual reader this may seem so, but most pubmed readers are not that unprepared. I for one having no background in biochemistry or cellbiology at all, recognized the substance names instantly.

 

Where does Elysium state the substance name for Basis?  Their website doesn't even give the mg dose per capsule of whatever substance Basis might be.

[Andey]

It is quite sly.  I'm not sure whether to applaud or be disgusted.  

 

They seem to have written up the results to obscure the connection to Basis product.

 

Is that so they can get approval to sell it as a drug for 100x the price, and can hide the fact that it is basis?  So customers don't know they  could buy it, or Chromadex NR, or NMN that would work as good or better for pennies on the dollar?

 

I guess that is the market we have and they are just using the rules.  

 

But I don't see this as just good news for ALS sufferers.  

 

It is proof that even with the bioavailability problem that oral capsules have, NR still does really work in humans, and perhaps much of the benefits mice get in all the varied research will  prove effective in humans as well.

 

In the big picture, I see it as great news for Elysium and Chromadex, NR and NMN users, and maybe just about everyone eventually.

 

They probably need a lot of money to do a proper trial for it - in a ballpark of tens of millions at least. To collect this money they need some ROI perspective for investors.

Is there any example where phase 3-4 trials were maid with public money?

 

FDA indication would force physicians to include it to treatment plans, otherwise it would not have much use. 

Edited by Andey, 02 August 2019 - 10:51 AM.

[bluemoon]

Where does Elysium state the substance name for Basis?  Their website doesn't even give the mg dose per capsule of whatever substance Basis might be.

 

I think it was 1,200 mg of NR split between the morning and evening but not sure about the amount of pterostilbine. If they stuck with the amount in Basis, then about 250mg split between the morning and evening.

[jabowery]

...If they stuck with the amount in Basis...

Could you please provide a link to where they state the ingredients in Basis?

[bluemoon]

Could you please provide a link to where they state the ingredients in Basis?

 

It's in the paper. I saw it months ago but now it is no longer free. The part I remember is 1200 mg of NR split in morning and evening.

 

Here is a description of the study. "Upon recruitment, Estrela or de la Rubia assigned 15 participants to receive 1,200 mg of EH301 daily, and 17 to receive placebo." Earlier, the writer states: "Essentially the same product as EH301 is sold under the name Basis by New York-based Elysium Health as a supplement to support cellular health." 

 

The published paper clearly stated what EH301 is whereas he is unclear. It looks like the patients took 500 mg of NR and 100 mg of pterostilbine X 2 times a day for 1,200 mg of EH301.

 

 

 

https://www.alzforum...progression-als

Edited by bluemoon, 02 August 2019 - 04:48 PM.

[jabowery]

It's in the paper. I saw it months ago but now it is no longer free. The part I remember is 1200 mg of NR split in morning and evening.

The paper is visible here:

http://sci-hub.tw/10...21.2018.1536152

Please point to the place where the word "Basis" is used.

[Andey]

The paper is visible here:

http://sci-hub.tw/10...21.2018.1536152

Please point to the place where the word "Basis" is used.

 

 

In this study, we employed EH301—a combination of 1-(β-D-Ribofuranosyl) nicotinamide
chloride and 3,5-Dimethoxy-4′-hydroxy-transstilbene—in a placebo-controlled, double-blinded,
randomized pilot study of ALS patients. The two
active compounds are predicted to work synergistically to increase NAD+ levels and support sirtuin
activity: 1-(β-D-Ribofuranosyl) nicotinamide chloride has been shown to increase circulating levels of
NAD+ in published human clinical trials (9),
whereas 3,5-dimethoxy-4′-hydroxy-trans-stilbene
has been shown to directly activate SIRT1 (10,11).

 

Those are NR + pterostilbene, though I am not sure its in the same ratio as in Basis

[bluemoon]

The paper is visible here:

http://sci-hub.tw/10...21.2018.1536152

Please point to the place where the word "Basis" is used.

p.2: "In this study, we employed EH301—a combination of 1-(β-D-Ribofuranosyl) nicotinamide

chloride and 3,5-Dimethoxy-4′-hydroxy-transstilbene—in a placebo-controlled, double-blinded,

randomized pilot study of ALS patients."

 

NR and pterostilbine are what is in Basis. 

 

p.2: ". We randomly allocated participants in a 1:1 ratio to receive 1200 mg EH301 or placebo (capsules containing brown sugar; matched in size and color). Study product was provided by Elysium Health. Half of the study drug was administered in the morning and the other half in the afternoon.

 

Elysium uses the 250 mg NR/50 mg pterostilbine in their 120 person study so it is very likely that EH301 at 1200 mg is 1000 mg of NR and 200 mg of pterostilbine. This isn't rocket science.

[jabowery]

 

 

Elysium uses the 250 mg NR/50 mg pterostilbine in their 120 person study so it is very likely that EH301 at 1200 mg is 1000 mg of NR and 200 mg of pterostilbine. This isn't rocket science.

 

Based on those numbers and reference I was able to find the study with those numbers.

Rocket science it isn't as long as one knows there was a prior published study naming "Basis" and providing numbers.

However likely your inference it it is still inference which one would like to verify when it comes to establishing a protocol using Basis.
 

Edited by jabowery, 03 August 2019 - 12:48 AM.

[Andey]

Based on those numbers and reference I was able to find the study with those numbers.

Rocket science it isn't as long as one knows there was a prior published study naming "Basis" and providing numbers.

However likely your inference it it is still inference which one would like to verify when it comes to establishing a protocol using Basis.
 

 

   You dont know that Elysium sells Basis to the public on their site, arent you? Nutrition label for it is freely available

[jabowery]

You dont know that Elysium sells Basis to the public on their site, arent you? Nutrition label for it is freely available

 
I found the nutrition label.  Here's the link:
 
https://www.elysiumh...upplement-facts
 
So that link, along with:

https://www.nature.c...1514-017-0016-9

and 
 
http://sci-hub.tw/10...21.2018.1536152
 
Permits one to conclude Basis and EH301 have the same substances in probably the same ratios.  Therefore if they have the same ratios, the ALS protocol (1200mg), in terms of Basis (300mg/capsule), would require 2 Basis subscriptions at $480/annual subscription.  That comes to $960/year.  The protocol being 4 Basis capsules in the morning and 4 Basis capsules in the evening.

 

Edited by jabowery, 03 August 2019 - 01:58 PM.

[bluemoon]

Based on those numbers and reference I was able to find the study with those numbers.

Rocket science it isn't as long as one knows there was a prior published study naming "Basis" and providing numbers.

However likely your inference it it is still inference which one would like to verify when it comes to establishing a protocol using Basis.
 

"However likely your inference"

 

I'd say a 90% chance.

 

The two compounds are the same, and Elysium has picked the NR/pterostilbine ratio to sell and to use on its 120 person study at 250 mg NR / 50 mg pterostilbine and 500 mg NR / 100 mg pterostilbine. 

 

Elysium's study on acute kidney disease that was completed a year ago used 250 mg of NR with 50 mg of pterostilbine twice a day. 

[Mind]

I recently interviewed Professor Clifford Steer and he talks a lot about UDCA benefitting ALS patients. Start early to combat the disease - is his advice. ALS and Huntington's Disease are mentioned in the second half of the podcast.

 

Clifford Steer Podcast.