8 replies to this topic

[Clavius]

For my ADHD-I my doctor has now put me on Wellbutrin and Risperidone. I don't know about the Risperidone yet, but I've been loving the effects of Wellbutrin for a week now. Seriously, I didn't know life could be like this. Quite literally a life-save for me. My mind is so calm, and I can focus so cleanly. It's like I'm always "here", and not having my mind drift to something else. I can now enjoy dinner with my family because my mind is not at work. And at work I can complete tasks again. It instantly put an end to my procrastination. I get things done and I enjoy it too.

 

Imagine my horror when I see all kinds of stories on the internet about people who loved Wellbutrin in a similar way, but complain about how it "stopped working" after a while. One after a year, another after 18 months, two years, there is lots of similar stories. I don't want that to happen. I can't have that. I can't go back to how I was.

 

What causes the effect of this substance to wane off? How do I prevent this from happening? Is it just simple dopamine receptor down-regulation? Should I stack it with something to prevent this?

[Kimer Med]

The main thing to remember with Wellbutrin is that it's a *drug* -- which means it is pushing your body's biochemistry in certain ways, *and* it has to be detoxified. If the nutrients required to support those metabolic changes get depleted, the drug will either stop working, or new side effects and/or cellular damage will begin to develop.

 

I'm not against drugs. When you need them, there's no doubt they can be life-savers. However, when you take them, be sure your diet and supplements are as good as you can make them. If you can afford it, I also highly recommend regular in-depth lab work, to hopefully catch early signs of nutrient depletion, etc. An Organic Acids Test is one of the most useful and actionable in that regard.

 

In term of specific stacking, beyond a good multi-mineral and B-complex, when you're dealing with neurotransmitters as with both Wellbutrin and Risperidone, it's difficult to say. In some people, even small amounts of amino acid precursors (one of the logical choices) make some people a lot worse. B12 and methylfolate are similar in that way, as well. About the only other advice I can offer is to go slow -- use low doses at first, and add or subtract supplements no more often that about once every 5 to 7 days, to give your body time to adjust.

 

[Clavius]

The main thing to remember with Wellbutrin is that it's a *drug* -- which means it is pushing your body's biochemistry in certain ways, *and* it has to be detoxified. If the nutrients required to support those metabolic changes get depleted, the drug will either stop working, or new side effects and/or cellular damage will begin to develop.

 

I'm not against drugs. When you need them, there's no doubt they can be life-savers. However, when you take them, be sure your diet and supplements are as good as you can make them. If you can afford it, I also highly recommend regular in-depth lab work, to hopefully catch early signs of nutrient depletion, etc. An Organic Acids Test is one of the most useful and actionable in that regard.

 

In term of specific stacking, beyond a good multi-mineral and B-complex, when you're dealing with neurotransmitters as with both Wellbutrin and Risperidone, it's difficult to say. In some people, even small amounts of amino acid precursors (one of the logical choices) make some people a lot worse. B12 and methylfolate are similar in that way, as well. About the only other advice I can offer is to go slow -- use low doses at first, and add or subtract supplements no more often that about once every 5 to 7 days, to give your body time to adjust.

 

Thanks for your response. So you don't think it's receptor downregulation because of the increased dopamines?

 

One thing that I'm going to ask my psychiatrist on my next appointment is why these two medicines. Because the Wellbutrin works as a dopamine reuptake inhibitor, but Risperidone blocks dopamine receptors. It doesn't make sense to my uneducated logic.

[Kimer Med]

Thanks for your response. So you don't think it's receptor downregulation because of the increased dopamines?

Dopamine receptor downregulation is possible. However, it doesn't happen to everyone, and for the people it does happen to, it's not at the same rate, frequency or severity. Genetics, environment and nutritional status all play a role.
 

One thing that I'm going to ask my psychiatrist on my next appointment is why these two medicines. Because the Wellbutrin works as a dopamine reuptake inhibitor, but Risperidone blocks dopamine receptors. It doesn't make sense to my uneducated logic.

Yeah, it's a bit of an unusual combo. A common approach is to combine antipsychotics like Risperidone with a mood stabilizer -- typically an SSRI -- so together, the drugs end up increasing serotonin and decreasing dopamine. An NDRI (norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitor) like Wellbutrin would normally only be used after an incomplete response to an SSRI.

 

However, I should add that the mechanism of action of drugs like this isn't 100% cut-and-dried; they can have broad effects (and side-effects) that go beyond their textbook definitions. An experienced psychiatrist may well have good reasons for what others might view as unusual or non-standard drug combinations.

 

[CWF1986]

Thanks for your response. So you don't think it's receptor downregulation because of the increased dopamines?

 

One thing that I'm going to ask my psychiatrist on my next appointment is why these two medicines. Because the Wellbutrin works as a dopamine reuptake inhibitor, but Risperidone blocks dopamine receptors. It doesn't make sense to my uneducated logic.

 

I can't remember the particulars, but I do know that different medicines work in different parts of the brain and also there are several different dopamine pathways that do different things.  

[MankindRising]

Could you do an update on its efficiency and effects noticed like once per week or every 2 weeks please.

Ive been very interested in the effects that bupropione can have on anhedonia.

Edited by MankindRising, 23 February 2019 - 09:16 AM.

[Clavius]

Could you do an update on its efficiency and effects noticed like once per week or every 2 weeks please.

Ive been very interested in the effects that bupropione can have on anhedonia.

 

Actually, I really started to doubt if the wellbutrin was having any effect a few days ago. Until me and my wife were watching a show on tv last night. I couldn't stop laughing at one of the jokes. At a certain point I had to walk away to catch my breath. It's literally been YEARS since that happened. Having so much fun with "stupid" little things is great: Riding my bike with my daughter to the store while she's talking non-stop. Going to a restaurant with the three of us. A short walk during my lunch-break. I enjoy all those things again. Some make me feel euphoric I think.

 

Hopefully this is a long term solution. Wellbutrin reaches its full function after 2 to 4 weeks. I really hope I also get the raised libido-effect that it's supposed to cause. That's been suffering as well obviously.

 

I'll make sure to update or at least bump this thread. I'm still trying to find out how to keep this stuff working as long as possible.

 

You were right. Before your edit I saw you guessing that I was diagnosed with ASD. That's true. I was diagnosed at 40 years old last October. And I probably have ADHD-I to go along with it. High functioning enough to pass as neuro-typical with all expectations and duties that go along with it, but low functioning enough to have a really "interesting" time fulfilling those.

[MankindRising]

Actually, I really started to doubt if the wellbutrin was having any effect a few days ago. Until me and my wife were watching a show on tv last night. I couldn't stop laughing at one of the jokes. At a certain point I had to walk away to catch my breath. It's literally been YEARS since that happened. Having so much fun with "stupid" little things is great: Riding my bike with my daughter to the store while she's talking non-stop. Going to a restaurant with the three of us. A short walk during my lunch-break. I enjoy all those things again. Some make me feel euphoric I think.

 

Hopefully this is a long term solution. Wellbutrin reaches its full function after 2 to 4 weeks. I really hope I also get the raised libido-effect that it's supposed to cause. That's been suffering as well obviously.

 

I'll make sure to update or at least bump this thread. I'm still trying to find out how to keep this stuff working as long as possible.

 

You were right. Before your edit I saw you guessing that I was diagnosed with ASD. That's true. I was diagnosed at 40 years old last October. And I probably have ADHD-I to go along with it. High functioning enough to pass as neuro-typical with all expectations and duties that go along with it, but low functioning enough to have a really "interesting" time fulfilling those.

Ha, yeah you cought that one really fast, I did edit it after scrolling up I noticed you said only ADHD-PI.

 

Ive been talking with my psychiater before about possibly trying wellbutrin, this gets me somewhat excited to actually give it a go. Reward deficiency is underestimated in ADHD and ASD imo, its a large part of the social problems aswell. wellbutrin seems to address this (increases dopamine in the nucleus accumbens in pretty much 9 out of every 10 studies done on it).

Like you I was also diagnosed with ASD(aspergers) from pretty much age 5-6 or something as low as that, been constantly bombarded with ssris which only made things worse for me.

Currently only use resveratrol (grapes), it really seems to actually help as weird as it might sound. I know it does a lot of things but one of things in a recent human study that Ive seen is that it increases functional connectivity between mPFC,hippocampus and Anterior Cingulate Cortex (this one is big as this is a major brain area implicated in affection).

Im thinking of combining resveratrol with wellbutrin if all goes well, It might just be my way out.

 

Another option would be aripiprazole (abiliify), this is a very atypical antipsychotic, and AFAIK know restores dopamine balance in the caudate/putamen (this is where anticipation and meaning of both love and hate takes place), my psych (and also the studies on the internet), show high efficiency in high functioning ASD types, but the possible side effects put me off.

So thats why I prefer doing wellbutrin first.

 

I hope it keeps working for you, my guess would be that as long as the 'high' and 'euphoric' effects arent too potent the tolerance will be minimal. Living healthy (diet, going bed in time) and maintaining a low stress state would probably your best bets.

 

Once again thanks for your reply!

[Clavius]

Time for a little update, although not as frequent as I promised, I see. Sorry for that.

 

After 10 weeks the Wellbutrin seems to have lost all its effect completely. I don't feel any different then before I started taking it. The first two weeks were great! Some of those days I even noticed that I had a bit of libido back. The third felt like it started to lose effect. After that, it was completely gone. Even when I forget to take it, or neglect it for multiple days, I feel no difference. I do have one of the nasty side effects though. Some days I am overwhelmed by a feeling of impending doom and hopelessness. It's actually hard to keep thinking straight during those days. Then I forget that the feeling only lasts for a day. Or I just don't care. This side effect should fade when using the drug longer though.

 

I know it wasn't a very smart thing to do. Possibly just plain stupid and irresponsible. But in one of those very weak moments I accepted a bottle of my friends ADD medicines that she offered. She only takes the medicines when she needs them, but never fails to collect her prescription, so she always has extra stock. "I swear, you don't have to feel this way." she told me. Within half an hour of taking the 2,5mg of dexamphetamines the "storm" in my head calmed down completely. I could concentrate on my own thoughts again. I could even finish my thoughts. It felt like my mind slowed down enough for me to take control over it, and this allowed my body to escape from the usual paralysis that I feel during such storms.

 

The next day at work was magic. The ONLY big symptom of autism that I recognize (sensory overload) seemed to have disappeared. Because I could concentrate on my chosen task and just ignore all other sounds and things going on in the huge office garden. Do normal people always feel like this? At least now I understand why they don't have any problem with working in one big room with 55 colleagues. And unlike the wellbutrin, this effect hasn't faded away yet. It didn't do anything yet for my broken libido though.

 

What does this mean? Does this confirm that I have some form of ADD. (I'm definitely not hyperactive!)

 

Next week I have an new appointment with my psychiatrist. I'm still debating if I should disclose my experience with this medicine or let her come to her own conclusions. They're not so fond of people experimenting or or trying to steer their treatment program. I think the next step for her is to increase the wellbutrin from 150mg xr to 300.