6 replies to this topic

[John250]

So many of us are always trying to figure out ways to help with amphetamine sensitization, preventatives, tolerance,etc.. I wonder why valproic acid(VP) hasn’t been talked about more. I read a study about how vp is prescribed for tardive dyskinesia which led me to think it must have a positive affect on dopamine as tardive dyskinesia comes from lack of dopamine. Then I was reading some research on how the GABA system plays a huge role in amphetamines and it’s not just dopamine like most people think. Then newer research points to the inhibition of HDAC potentiating and regulating amphetamines.

Valproic Acid(Depakote) is GABAergic:

https://en.m.wikiped.../wiki/Valproate


Valproic Acid is an HDAC inhibitor:
https://www.ncbi.nlm...cles/PMC125788/

Which in turn regulates DeltafosB:
https://www.ncbi.nlm...ubmed/18848971/


Valproic Acid is an NMDA antagonist:
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC2564799/

Valproic Acid upregulates Tyrosine Hydroxylase which gets depleted with long term amp use:
https://www.ncbi.nlm...ubmed/26512932/

https://www.ncbi.nlm...ubmed/10633488/

Valproic Acid reduces cortisol which is greatly elevated from amphetamines:
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/3129907/

Valproic Acid regulates dopamine and is an MOAI:
https://www.ncbi.nlm...ubmed/21200377/

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3454414/

I believe Valproic Acid also can play a role in rho kinase and Calcium/calmodulin‐dependent protein kinase II (CaMKII) which I believe play a role in amphetamines but I haven’t had the time to research this yet.

Im curious of your thoughts on Valproic Acid being a novel drug to help with amphetamine sensitization,tolerance, withdrawal,etc..?

[MankindRising]

Its your life, but I will say to you that valproic acid is used in mouse/rat models all the time to induce autism like behavior in offspring and it seems pretty damn well in doing so.

Imo its just a bunch of toxic shit.

Why dont you try the PDE4i route, has far better science behind it + saver. Playing with valproate is playing with fire.

Edited by MankindRising, 04 March 2019 - 12:14 PM.

[prunk]

Plus it might give you a blood clot by increasing the platelets.

[John250]

Plus it might give you a blood clot by increasing the platelets.

I thought it decreased platelets
https://www.ncbi.nlm...ubmed/10080510/

[John250]

Its your life, but I will say to you that valproic acid is used in mouse/rat models all the time to induce autism like behavior in offspring and it seems pretty damn well in doing so.
Imo its just a bunch of toxic shit.
Why dont you try the PDE4i route, has far better science behind it + saver. Playing with valproate is playing with fire.

What have you read that seems so bad about it? I mean I definitely would like to avoid it as the goal would be getting off amps to begin with so I don’t need to be hooked on something else but I’m curious where do you see so many negatives?

For pde4 inhibition that’s another drug I’d have to use so there’s a concern of side effects. Apparently artichoke is an inhibitor
https://www.naturals.../what-is-ciltep

Is there inhibition on different bases? Like Mao inhibition is Mao-A and B,etc.. I have Ibudilast I wonder how good that is.

[prunk]

I thought it decreased platelets
https://www.ncbi.nlm...ubmed/10080510/

For AML-patients it does sometimes the opposite. But naturally it's a different game for them, and I didn't remember that the study I was thinking about yesterday when posting, was about AML.

 

Still, I think (not sure though) VA increased my platelets, when I tried it a few times two years ago. 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3733883/

 

"The toxicity of VPA in these patients is low and complete hematological remission lasting for several months has been reported for a few patients (<5% of included patients), but increased peripheral blood platelet counts are seen for 30 to 40% of patients and may last for up to 1 to 2 years."

Edited by prunk, 05 March 2019 - 11:43 AM.

[RYAN474]

Fwiw, I was prescribed Depakote as a teenager and stopped taking it after a couple of weeks due to it making me emotionally flat, tired, and causing a significant worsening of cognition. I do not remember the dosage.

 

The reason I was prescribed it is a long story but in short, was very misdiagnosed as having a hypomanic episode by an ignorant psychiatrist. So the depakote was to try to stop the "hypomania". In reality, it was just an SSRI (Paxil) that I had just started taking and completely screwed up my sleep, mood, and cognition, ending in a serious panic attack. Stopped paxil, felt better, but was prescribed depakote anyway. Then stopped depakote and felt normal again. 

 

I am also interested in ways to help with amphetamine sensitization, preventatives, tolerance,etc because I have been on it for inattentive ADD since age 18 and recently, a narcolepsy diagnosis (without cataplexy).  Maybe depakote in a very small dose would have a different/better effect, but given my personal experience with it at higher doses, I am not eager to try it.