22 replies to this topic

[mindbender]

I did some searches and I'm very surprised very little turned up for red light therapy. Does anyone do it? I just started researching last night and am quite excited about the prospects. Do we have any red light gurus on here? 

[tunt01]

I've jotted down a little bit and read on it.  Not a guru and no formal opinions on it yet.  But I share your enthusiasm.

 

I think there is something of an unresolved connection (at least in my mind) between the practice of neurofeedback (beta, gamma training), red light therapy, and the similar mechanisms in which they affect the brain.

Edited by tunt01, 26 March 2019 - 12:12 AM.

[mindbender]

Funny you should mention neurofeedback because I'm actually home training for about a month now. I have not yet thought too much about red light therapy for the brain, tho I know some people do it with VieLight or their own rigged devices. Maybe that's me down the road, but now I'm looking at red light therapy for my skin and body. I think I've narrowed it down to the PlatinumLED bio-300 or bio-450. Plus debating whether to get an EMF meter. EMFs is something I'd worry more about with the brain so maybe I should get one now as I know I'd want one for the brain. I'd love to hear people's experiences with any red light therapy tho! 

[Oakman]

Funny you should mention neurofeedback because I'm actually home training for about a month now. I have not yet thought too much about red light therapy for the brain, tho I know some people do it with VieLight or their own rigged devices. Maybe that's me down the road, but now I'm looking at red light therapy for my skin and body. I think I've narrowed it down to the PlatinumLED bio-300 or bio-450. Plus debating whether to get an EMF meter. EMFs is something I'd worry more about with the brain so maybe I should get one now as I know I'd want one for the brain. I'd love to hear people's experiences with any red light therapy tho! 

 

I've had an interest in RLT for some time, in fact, to the point where I have constructed several devices myself to expand my knowledge and experience of RLT. I did a lot of research on commercial devices (good one are expensive) and scientific studies.

 

As a result of that, and realizing I didn't want to spend the $$ for the good commercial products (e.g. Joow), I made my own programmable brain (scalp) RLT stimulator (1' x 1' ~16-25 watts) using an arduino board to modulate the RL frequencies to the head, as well as a steady light whole body device (1' x 3.5' panel ~48 watts of LEDs). All of these devices used 660nm LEDs.

 

The arduino was a blast to work with the LEDs because you can program it to sweep thru frequencies and change the duty cycle of each pulse to virtually duplicate the results of studies done by medical researches for various ailments and purposes. I would typically be only a few centimeters away from the LED sources with both devices. Beyond that I also purchased a device of 20 watts (looks like a spotlight) that is programmable color and strobe for treating joints or for intensive therapy on any small body area.

 

For a while, I used the devices I made on a schedule either every other or every third day for some months. I certainly felt a effect from the radiation. You absolutely "feel" like there is a limit to how much you can withstand in a session. My devices produced about 1 joule/cm for every 10 seconds of exposure or 100 mw/cm2 irradiance as measured by the irradiance meter I purchased to make sure I was getting a therapeutic dose of light.

 

The original purpose was to try and regrow scalp hair and improve overall body skin condition. I found it did help stimulate hair growth, but certainly did not regrow a full head of hair. The hair that did regrow grew a lot, there just weren't enough vestigial hairs left to stimulate. Hard to tell if it also did something to my brain, as you might imagine. I did use eye covers to block the intense light, but even still the changing strobe lighting effects produce in my brain with the arduino was one heck of a psychedelic show!!

 

Also I found that RLT was truly very effective at stimulating wound healing. That was very impressive and produced results very quickly on occasions where I would cut or injure myself somehow.

[mindbender]

Thanks for sharing tunt and oakman. Oakman, if you're interested, Peter Attia recently interviewed a doctor who specializes in hair loss and regrowth. It was interesting.

 

May I ask, which spotlight did you get for your joints? I was thinking of getting a handheld device as well. Also, what irradiance meter do you have? I did order the PlatinumLED bio-450 last night and they have their own videos with their irradiance meter, but if they're not too pricey, I wouldn't mind having one. Your arduino setup sounds pretty cool. I've read so many studies now, I wish I had written down the tech they each used for the conditions I'm interested in improving. I guess I can go back and do that. Is 660nm enough for transcranial? I noticed the latest product from Vielight is 810nm.

[Oakman]

It was off Amazon, and is not available any more but was called "OPPSK Stage Lights with 30W COB RGB Tricolors LED Par Lights by RF Remote and DMX Control" So  also 30 watts, my mistake, not 20 watts. There are surely others out there similar.  660 nm was the most often used frequency I found used, although other close in that range are available. 810nm is getting up there into the infrared range and I noticed it was often used in conjunction with 600 nm rage LEDs. It provided a deeper level of tissue absorption than the cellular excitatory effects of lower frequencies.

[Oakman]

The meter is this one, 

 

Signstek Handheld Portable Solar Power Irradiance Meter-Solar Power Radiation Meter-Sun Irradiance Tester

 

Pricey, but what ta hey.

[mindbender]

Gosh, too bad my birthday or Christmas is not coming up....3 meters on my list now. I think Vielight is in the middle of some studies currently, with their latest devices. It will be interesting to see what they show. I think I'll probably not use my device for any brain stuff till I'm done with neurofeedback, as I don't want to conflate the outcome of that. But gosh, I might have to block my head while I'm doing RLT for my body...that 810nm does seem powerful. And for the skin, like on my face, that's at 630nm and a further distance, so probably no chance of getting to my brain. 

[Mind]

I think if you search "photobiomodulation" you will come up with more research into laser/red light/infrared therapies and resuts.

[Juangalt]

I have a 660nm-850nm model BL17 from lifegivingstore.com. I have used it maybe 20 times for between 30 seconds and 20 minutes. I purchased it both for the purported testosterone boost and skin benefits. I can't say that I've noticed positive results yet, however, using it for longer sessions creates noticeable bloodflow to the areas exposed. I'm also pretty sure it's not good for your eyes, so use protection.

[mindbender]

Thanks Juangalt.  I think the device I bought comes with some sunglasses. I'm wondering if I can wear smaller ones, like the kind I used to get at tanning salons. I have this scar at the outer point of my eyebrow that I wouldn't mind trying to treat with the RLT.  

 

Found a great source of the studies, if anyone is interested - http://photobiology....o/Sawhney.html 

[TheFountain]

What's fascinating about Infrared light is that it awakens intra-muscular melatonin, I.E endogenous Melatonin which comes from our cells and is one of the most important hormones our bodies can produce. 

 

I can avoid the sunlight and bathe under a cascade of Infrared which is the IMPORTANT AND HELPFUL aspect of the suns rays that we need without bombarding ourselves with UV radiation.

 

So I have been on a protocol as of late, I take abut 5000 to 10,000 IU of Vitamin D with my K2 of course and then sit in front of my red light (must have infrared) or place the spectrum on me while doing Yoga, I have already noticed mood improvements.

 

By the way there are conflicting reports about it causing cataracts or actually reducing the potential for them. Not sure if that is product dependent or not, but it makes sense because Infrared is outside the visual spectrum, in fact it's the heat we feel from the sun, whereas UV is the light we see from the sun. 

[Phoebus]

 

 

So I have been on a protocol as of late, I take abut 5000 to 10,000 IU of Vitamin D with my K2 of course and then sit in front of my red light (must have infrared) or place the spectrum on me while doing Yoga, I have already noticed mood improvements.

 

By the way there are conflicting reports about it causing cataracts or actually reducing the potential for them. Not sure if that is product dependent or not, but it makes sense because Infrared is outside the visual spectrum, in fact it's the heat we feel from the sun, whereas UV is the light we see from the sun. 

 

 

What is the wavelength in nm of your light? 

[TheFountain]

What is the wavelength in nm of your light? 

660 mm in IR and 850 in red light. 

[johnhemming]

This sounds an interesting additional process that might be of some merit. I wonder what quality research there is in this area.  I assume that you should start by having both Red at 600-660nm and Near Infra Red at 850nm ish, but beyond that what energy intensity is suggested or periods of exposure.

 

Edit:

I have found this which looks helpful

https://www.scienced...011134415300713

Edited by johnhemming, 15 January 2022 - 01:19 PM.

[TheFountain]

This sounds an interesting additional process that might be of some merit. I wonder what quality research there is in this area.  I assume that you should start by having both Red at 600-660nm and Near Infra Red at 850nm ish, but beyond that what energy intensity is suggested or periods of exposure.

 

Edit:

I have found this which looks helpful

https://www.scienced...011134415300713

 

Check pubmed there's so much it'll take days. 

[johnhemming]

I have decided to try this:

https://smile.amazon...n_title_o00_s00

 

It gives two Red frequencies and 2 IR frequencies and a reasonable amount of power.

[TheFountain]

I have decided to try this:

https://smile.amazon...n_title_o00_s00

 

It gives two Red frequencies and 2 IR frequencies and a reasonable amount of power.

 

I must admit, the one I have tried and had pretty good success with is way less expensive and is only a singular lamp. Is this one you're purchasing FDA approved?

[johnhemming]

I must admit, the one I have tried and had pretty good success with is way less expensive and is only a singular lamp. Is this one you're purchasing FDA approved?

 

I live in the UK so it is not relevant and I don't know.

[johnhemming]

I have done a bit more work looking at IR even though I am not using my IR device at the moment.  The reason I am not using it is I need to test it in isolation and need other experiments to end before I can start with it.  However, I have found some interesting research

 

It is clear that IR radiation can increase serotonin levels

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4935433/

 

Because serotonin is converted to Melotonin it is clear that this is a route towards increasing both mitochondrial melatonin and also pineal melatonin.

 

It strikes me that taking some 5-HTP or tryptophan (or eating Chia seeds which are about 0.7% tryptophan), then once that has digested (say about 2 hours) getting some infra red radiation might be quite a good way of upping endogenous melatonin a short while later.

 

Does anyone have any thoughts or experience on this.

 

 

[TheFountain]

I have done a bit more work looking at IR even though I am not using my IR device at the moment.  The reason I am not using it is I need to test it in isolation and need other experiments to end before I can start with it.  However, I have found some interesting research

 

It is clear that IR radiation can increase serotonin levels

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4935433/

 

Because serotonin is converted to Melotonin it is clear that this is a route towards increasing both mitochondrial melatonin and also pineal melatonin.

 

It strikes me that taking some 5-HTP or tryptophan (or eating Chia seeds which are about 0.7% tryptophan), then once that has digested (say about 2 hours) getting some infra red radiation might be quite a good way of upping endogenous melatonin a short while later.

 

Does anyone have any thoughts or experience on this.

 

Well, I know that if my sleep is off and I am doing the nocturnal thing that red light and NIR therapy cause me to feel tired during the day even when I slept 8-10 hours. I believe this is because my clock is off. My body doesn't want to accept the fact that I slept 8-10 hours because I am doing it during the day instead of when the red light dictates my melatonin peak is at. If that makes sense.

 

So in other word, yes, the NIR is awakening my cellular melatonin but it isn't allowing it to peak till the sun is down. Kinda sorta like that. It's trying to lead me toward a more natural state again.

Edited by TheFountain, 31 January 2022 - 02:21 PM.

[ekaitz]

What's fascinating about Infrared light is that it awakens intra-muscular melatonin, I.E endogenous Melatonin which comes from our cells and is one of the most important hormones our bodies can produce.

 

I think is not exclusively at intra-musuclar tissue, but there where deep red (660nm) and NIR reaches the mitochondria. I understand this action on subcellular melatonin production does take place on skin tissue as well.
 

[ambivalent]

Red Light Therapy and Parkinson's Disease.

Edited by ambivalent, 22 June 2023 - 04:51 PM.