63 replies to this topic

[dalack]

What do you guys think about this discovery?

https://www.scientif...kin-treatments/

I'm already looking into sourcing there compounds to test out. Anyone interested in a group buy?

[Phoebus]

yes am interested in group buy 

 

its intriguing 

 

also, a bit of discussion in this thread 

 

 

https://www.longecit...-skin-youthful/

Edited by Phoebus, 09 April 2019 - 05:34 PM.

[dalack]

Looks like its cheap from these sources but I've read they won't sell to individuals. 

https://www.sigmaald...NBoCmoAQAvD_BwE

https://www.scbt.com...ocynin-498-02-2

 

Albiba dirt cheap

 

https://www.alibaba....25ff9DrM1uq&s=p

 

Not sure about Y27632 yet

 

Edited by dalack, 09 April 2019 - 07:49 PM.

[dalack]

The patent on the derivatives of apocynin has been transfered several times but was recently assigned to the NIH.

https://patents.goog...atent/US8962600

 

 

Edited by dalack, 09 April 2019 - 08:55 PM.

[QuestforLife]

Here is the original paper: https://www.nature.c...tform=hootsuite

 

Not sure about Y27632 yet

 

This is a ROCK inhibitor, which alters the cytoskeleton of cells to in a way that allows them to become progenitor cells.

 

Interestingly statins, which are also ROCK inhibitors, have been shown topically to heal wounds, just as Y27632 and apocynin have (https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5505822/).

 

 In this study, we demonstrate the efficacy of topical statin treatment in reducing scar in our validated rabbit ear scar model.

 

Sadly, I've no idea how to make statins into an effective skin cream.

 

But yes, I would be interested in a apocynin group buy. I am in the UK however.

[dalack]

Says it's soluble in hot water and alcohol. Maybe dmso? I can buy it on Amazon.
I'm in touch with Chinese suppliers but it's not easy with the time difference
Says it's soluble in hot water and alcohol. Maybe dmso? I can buy it on Amazon.
I'm in touch with Chinese suppliers but it's not easy with the time difference

[Phoebus]

Says it's soluble in hot water and alcohol. Maybe dmso? I can buy it on Amazon.
I'm in touch with Chinese suppliers but it's not easy with the time difference
Says it's soluble in hot water and alcohol. Maybe dmso? I can buy it on Amazon.
I'm in touch with Chinese suppliers but it's not easy with the time difference

 

 

You can buy apocynin on Amazon? or Y27632?

 

I am always so hesitant to use Alibaba as you never really know what you are getting. 

[Fafner55]

I'm interested in a group buy of apocynin.

[dalack]

Has anyone had luck ordering from sigma. Wondering if that would work fronting as a research company
Chinese suppliers are not being very responsive

[Colorow]

I would also be interested in a group buy

[dalack]

Found a supplier of 99% pure apocynin
1kg $500
500g $300
Company gets good reviews. What do you guys think. We don't need this much but it's pretty cheap if we split it.
They'll ship 3-5 days after payment

https://chemical-zs....om/#top-nav-bar

https://chemical-zs.....26951e37HBvfFg

[Phoebus]

so how much would each person's share be? 

 

 

[dalack]

Depends how many people want it.
I'd be willing to split it two or three ways

[Fafner55]

Depends how many people want it.
I'd be willing to split it two or three ways

 

I'll take a share.

[ceridwen]

Interested

[dalack]

I'm going to order it and we'll figure it out once I receive it

[Fafner55]

The benefits of apocynin extend beyond COL17A1 and stem cells in skin. Interesting that it increases Yamanaka factors Oct-4 and klf-4, rescues cells from senescence, and increases bone density and volume. Here is the research in an open source paper. 

“Apocynin suppression of NADPH oxidase reverses the aging process in mesenchymal stem cells to promote osteogenesis and increase bone mass” (2015) https://www.nature.c...icles/srep18572

[Phoebus]

The benefits of apocynin extend beyond COL17A1 and stem cells in skin. Interesting that it increases Yamanaka factors Oct-4 and klf-4, 

 

what? If anyone feels like ELI 15 that would be swell. 

[Fafner55]

Oral dose for a 100 μM concentration of apocynin

 

Apocynin has a molar mass of 166.17 g/mol.

(100 μM)(166.17 g/mol) 

= 16.6 mg/L 

= 665 mg/40 L of body fluid.

 

While skin application should not be a problem, oral administration does not appear practical. Apocynin has poor bioavailability and is rapidly metabolized. 

• At 8.3% oral bioavailability, a 100 μM concentration needs a 8012 g oral dose.
• 99% of oral doses are removed from plasma within 15 to 20 minutes.

“Pharmacokinetic, bioavailability, metabolism and plasma protein binding evaluation of NADPH-oxidase inhibitor apocynin using LC-MS/MS” (2015) https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/25682338

 

[dalack]

Needs to be injected it seems.

Does anyone know how much it will cost to get a US lab to test it for purity?

Can we trust their analysis? If I were to inject it I'd definitely get it tested here in the states.

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Edited by dalack, 18 April 2019 - 04:57 PM.

[Fafner55]

The skin on the inside of my forearms is crepey and shows my age. This situation presents a good test platform. I could make a 100 μM solution with DMSO and apply to one arm while using the other as a reference. After 4 weeks or so of treatment, the benefits of apocynin to skin should be known.

[dalack]

Do you think injecting a apocynin solution into deeper layers of the skin will work better for reuvenation?

[Fafner55]

Do you think injecting a apocynin solution into deeper layers of the skin will work better for reuvenation?

 

The thickness of the epidermis down through the basal layer is only about 0.1 to 0.25 mm on the inside of forearms (an average thickness). DMSO will take apocynin through the skin that deep and deeper. I have experimented with DMSO and senolytic compounds on my skin with good results. My arms are free of all actinic and most seborrheic keratoses (that should be the subject of another discussion).

[Phoebus]

if its soluble in DMSO there is no need to inject. DMSO will take it deep into the body. 

 

Quite frankly if you want skin rejuvenation DMSO is not the way to go. Make a simple DIY hyaluronic acid serum and add some apocynin, that should work just fine for the skin. Use hot water as apocynin it seems prefers heated water. Or if you want to have it penetrate nice and deep add some propylene glycol which is a penetration enhancer. 

 

Also apocynin is soluble in alcohol, so if you are making a skin serum with it you could first dissolve it in 91% alcohol, then add that mixture to your skin serum. The alcohol will help to preserve the serum. 

 

DMSO takes anything deep into the body. So if you want to test it for overall rejuvenation then use DMSO. 

Edited by Phoebus, 19 April 2019 - 02:05 AM.

[dalack]

Why do you guys think apocynin hasn't been made into a supplement yet? It seems like big pharma isn't interested in it either. 

From the research i've done it seems like its non toxic and has great therapeutic effects.

The only reason I can think about the lack of interest is the patent must of run out and there's no money to be made. 

 

This group is has patented derivative of apocynin but i'm thinking apocynin might be just as good. 

 

https://patents.goog...atent/US8962600

 

It will be amazing if it can rejuvenate our skin since there's no other easily obtained compound available. 

 

 

[Fafner55]

Another possible mixture is DMSO:Grapeseed oil in a 10:90 mixture with apocynin dissolved in DMSO first then mixed with oil. https://www.medcheme...m/Apocynin.html

Grapeseed oil is mostly linoleic acid (C18:2), has good skin penetration and little smell.  

 

I plan to start by testing with 100% DMSO to get an unambiguous answer on its effect on skin.

[Phoebus]

Any update? 

[dalack]

It might take two weeks to get delivered

[Colorow]

I am interested as well if this has turned into an informal group buy.

[Harkijn]

For those in the USA this company has affordable prices and they even give a free sample. Shipping costs make it more prohibitive for us who live outside the US.

https://www.adooq.co...uest?sku=A11989