20 replies to this topic

[giant]

I am prescribed low-dose Dexamphetamine tablets 2.5 mg up to x4 times a day for ADHD. Sometimes I will take 5mg for an extra boost but not very often. My doc has me flexible on that.

I also supplement:

30mg Zinc citrate
Omega 3
Vitamin D 5,000iu per day (though I am considering dropping this to 2,000iu) -- as I write this I haven't taken my vitamin D in a couple of days
Magnesium Glycinate at night - I have just started this recently upon realising I need to up my magnesium intake when supplementing vitamin D and taking dexamphetamine

I am a 24 year old male. But of late I have been experiencing rubbish orgasms and difficult to achieve and maintain erections. I rarely get boners these days and feel like my libido has subsided somewhat in recent times. My genitals always just feel like they are a little bit shrivelled up. 
Anyway - I realised recently that sometimes when I am coming of dexamphetamine that it can be easier to obtain an erection etc. Though in the past taking dexamphetamine (particularly on an empty stomach late afternoon before evening meal) it has made me a little horny, but this hasn't happened for some time now. 
I haven't taken a break or drug holiday from dexamphetamine in quite some time. Probably well over a year now. I am considering taking a day off the drug over the weekend and perhaps make that into a thing. 

The last time I took a break from it was well over a year ago and it only had a duration of 9 hours - but I remember at the time that it was a bit hard to endure but when I went back onto the dexamphetamine again it was fantastic, medicine worked much better etc. I assume this is because the receptors have been allowed to upregulate. 

Does anyone know of any theories as to how taking a break from dex after chronic long-term low dose treatment could restore sexual functioning? 
Also interested to know about the general benefits of taking a break from dex have.

[MichaelFocus22]

1. I used to take dexerdrine and it started to mess with my testosterone levels and the focus increase was medicore at best. I also had strange episodes where I was never myself and often times, it increased my tolerance of concerta for almost 4 months, where before that I could take concerta every single day and it would always have the same effect no matter what. Now, of days concerta 27 MG doesn't really work anymore, so it's hard to tell whats going on. I would ditch the dexerdrine and just get a reuptake inhibitor instead. Your going to burn out your dopamine receptors if you take it every single day, ideally you should only be taking it on the days, that you need it. Frankly, I haven't seen any improvement on concerta, but that's simply because I've been on the medication for such a long time. Although, dexerdrine is somewhat smoother it really didn't do much for increase in performance and did address any of my problems with attending to details, which is another oddity  as well.  Stimulants like adderall and dexerdrine work by arousing your central nervious system and force your basal ganglia and nucleus accubens to produce a significant more amount of dopamine then you would typically have. Ritalin works by blocking these receptors and forcing more natural dopamine by coming out instead. On dexerdrine, I didn't feel like myself for WEEKS on end. It toke me almost, a month before I barely could laugh again. It felt, like a big piece of my personality was gone when I was off the medication for 3 weeks. I was just flat and empty for months. I myself, will never take that amphetamine class ever again. So, you need to be weary of building dependence on drugs like that. If it was up to me, I wouldn't be taking anything at all. Concerta, is better than nothing  even though it seems to be making my performance worse, which is obviously a mystery but oh well. 

2. I would also investigate, are you a chronic masterbater? Do you watch tons of hardcore pornographic materials? Have you ever had a girlfriend? These are other reasons that could be affecting your libido. Wasting your semen has fairly damaging effects on your body. It's not just simply a fluid that you get rid off. Everything has effects and so does hardcore pornographic materials. That will fuck your brain up, just as much as medication would. Also, how is your diet? I find when I have a good diet and solid routine in place, I feel pretty good. So their could be a multiple number of mechanisms causing your issue. Next, is your medication right for you? Do you really have ADHD? Do you have all the testing done? What type of ADD do you have? The type of ADD you have will determine what type of neuro-chemical you would benefit from. For me, I'm starting to suspect, I might benefit more from nonerephrine than dopamine but again it's hard to tell. So again, this is fairly complex.  I reccomend you EXHAUST all of your natural options and then Do medication. See, how you feel off your dextroamphetamine.  Ideally, you would taper off it gradually. Again, this is just my take. If you want more detailed information, I have a fairly comprehensive thread on managing ADD and you can watch my fall from grace to failure. Goodluck.

[cat-nips]

Fairly low dose.  It's not usually implicated in sexual dysfunction.  Are you sure it's related to Dex and not from one of another million factors that could be lowering hormonal levels?  I don't see anything in your stack that usually has that side effect associated with it.  

 

As far as the break goes, yes, taking regularly scheduled breaks will surely help keep tolerance in check and make the med more effective, which is counter-balanced by how much productivity you lose on the break.    

 

If it's very troubling, I'd perhaps go see an endocrinologist or functional med doc to get hormone levels tested and see if you can figure something out with that data.

 

Forskolin and Ashwagandha herbal supplements can be added to boost testosterone, help with your symptoms and can synergise with your Dex.  Dosages of Ash may have to be adjusted to make it work though as it can have a sedating effect at certain strengths.  

 

Maybe wait a few weeks before dropping the D.  The increased sunlight in the days will ease the transition.  

Edited by cat-nips, 22 April 2019 - 07:50 PM.

[Keizo]

"I need to up my magnesium intake when supplementing vitamin D and taking dexamphetamine"

Why? Because some study on crack addicts who don't sleep or eat for 72hrs at a time found that they were magnesium deficient?

 

I take magnesium myself from time to time, but I do it for the relaxing feeling it can give (mostly in the evening if I feel stressed).

Edited by Keizo, 07 May 2019 - 03:12 AM.

[MichaelFocus22]

"I need to up my magnesium intake when supplementing vitamin D and taking dexamphetamine"

Why? Because some study on crack addicts who don't sleep or eat for 72hrs at a time found that they were magnesium deficient?

 

I take magnesium myself from time to time, but I do it for the relaxing feeling it can give (mostly in the evening if I feel stressed).

 

 

1. Is this a sarcastic response? Most drug addicts are drug addicts because they are self-medicating for bigger issues not necessarily because they like being drug addicts. In all seriousness most supplements are useless unless you have a diet. You get all of your nutrition through your diet and if you have a bad diet then it's pretty pointless to take supplements anyways. Without a good diet my ADD goes from moderate to severe and I feel like dirt for the rest of the day. I'm especially emphasizing gluten and breads that seem to promote inflamation and cause some type of fog and high impulsivity. Stay away from canned food if or when possible. I don't have a choice at the moment but that's another issue.

[cat-nips]

This argument again.... 

 

As a Dexedrine, or other amphetamine user, it's important to take Magnesium because it can act as a very weak, NMDA antagonist, which could theoretically help keep tolerance down.  It can also provide benefits to sleep, anxiety and similar issues that most face when medicating with amps.  

 

In general, magnesium is supportive to just about every single function that happens in the body, including cognitive ones, and unfortunately most people today are deficient anyway, reason being that the magnesium levels in soil are seriously depleted and nutrition coming from food does not have the same levels of magnesium and other nutrients that it did 20-30 years ago.  Soil feeds plants, plants feed animals, hence the deficiency cycle continues.  

 

On a personal level, it's a supplement I try to not go without and one of the few that I even give to my kid a few times a week at night.  It's not a rapid night/day switch, but a buildup over time and I feel a difference within a month or two of stopping.  Heart palpitations, sleep, anxiety get a lot worse, as well as the ability to think as quickly.  It takes at least a few weeks of resuming supplementation to notice benefits again as it's a subtle buildup. 

 

The type is important.  Oxide is useful only as a laxative and poorly absorbed.  Many types cause digestive issues.  Mag Sulfate is Epsom salts and is really useful topically for sore muscles in a bath after rigorous exercise, and a treatment used by many athletes.  Glycinate, orally, is relaxing and easier on the stomach and good for sleep, leg cramps, RLS, heart functions.  There are others.  Best type for stim users is Threonate as it's able to cross the blood-brain barrier and more supportive for cognitive functioning.  

 

If Vitamins can negate the effect of stims, as in the case for Vitamin C, it stands to reason that the opposite would also be true, that some could enhance them so you continue to receive the maximum benefit and keep tolerance down.  I'd hardly call that useless.  To keep it simple, Magnesium, C, sometimes D, and the Omegas are things that everyone could benefit from.  Amp users have to space the Vit C out to ingest at a time where it won't negate the effects of the meds.  Magnesium probably as well, but not as clear on that one as I've heard some say it makes Dexedrine act smoother and longer, while some report a cancelling effect.   Being that it can be supportive for sleep, I take it at night, but haven't felt anything negative from daytime usage when I've tried, except for maybe a slight relaxing effect. 

[cat-nips]

1. Is this a sarcastic response? Most drug addicts are drug addicts because they are self-medicating for bigger issues not necessarily because they like being drug addicts. In all seriousness most supplements are useless unless you have a diet. You get all of your nutrition through your diet and if you have a bad diet then it's pretty pointless to take supplements anyways. Without a good diet my ADD goes from moderate to severe and I feel like dirt for the rest of the day. I'm especially emphasizing gluten and breads that seem to promote inflamation and cause some type of fog and high impulsivity. Stay away from canned food if or when possible. I don't have a choice at the moment but that's another issue.

 

Yeah, bread and gluten sucks and can be highly inflammatory and fog inducing.  Canned and processed foods - the same.  If you don't feel the difference, give it 10 years, and you will.  Over time, it will do damage.  I didn't see the correlation until I started looking for it and am way more affected by bread/gluten/dairy then I was 20 years ago.  

 

But a bad diet would argue a case for especially needing supplements, because if you're not getting the nutrients from food or supplementation, then you'll end up deficient over time.  The purity and source of supplements matter a lot as well.  Extra fillers or excipients and other contaminants you want to generally avoid, but if you can supplement wisely and conservatively, then a little bad diet from time to time can be tolerated, in my opinion.  

[MichaelFocus22]

Yeah, bread and gluten sucks and can be highly inflammatory and fog inducing.  Canned and processed foods - the same.  If you don't feel the difference, give it 10 years, and you will.  Over time, it will do damage.  I didn't see the correlation until I started looking for it and am way more affected by bread/gluten/dairy then I was 20 years ago.  

 

But a bad diet would argue a case for especially needing supplements, because if you're not getting the nutrients from food or supplementation, then you'll end up deficient over time.  The purity and source of supplements matter a lot as well.  Extra fillers or excipients and other contaminants you want to generally avoid, but if you can supplement wisely and conservatively, then a little bad diet from time to time can be tolerated, in my opinion.  

 

 

1. I'm not saying that it's useless per se but useless without a strong foundation of a really good diet. Like now, I drink more organic milk and I generally don't feel like shit as much as I normally do abeit it does seem to increase impulsivity I've really no idea why this is either. However, whatever you eat is what you will become and I'm a big believer in eating well, Hopefully I can get a really good diet assuming my issues ever remedy themselves. Put it simply, my meds haven't been working really lately and my next script doesn't come for another month, I'm in the process of taking the highest dose along with some guanfacine at the lowest possible dose to see if it improves cortical blood flow and hopefully allows for me to better allow for my affairs.  Yes, I don't know what it is about gluten and breads or even pastas but my gums will bleed, you feel like shit, I get more acene and other shit. I think it's provoking some type of immune response every time you eat it. I've really no idea but I'm determined to eat better.  I'm still working on my diet but my main priority is to simply get some income coming in at a position that doesn't discriminate againist things that are mostly out of my control. Like I will miss details almost no matter what I do but thats another issue. In relationship to  dexerdrine, it's probably best that to get those most out of your stimulant you NEED  a good exercize routine, along with a good organic diet and LOTS of SLEEP. That means your ass goes to bed by 930 and you rise by 5 am everyday. Along with a cutting down on my phoen usage, I may stop having a smartphone, I just feel so much time is being wasted. The point is, that stimulants DRAIN your body and raise your metabolic system to raise your arousal system simultaneously. Your also dealing with the issues of tolerance. You need to make sure your body can recuperate from all of that stimulation that it's not used to. Nutrition is basically the best medicine and the second best thing after medication that we have which TARGETS ADHD at the point of performance. Granted it helps only a little bit but it's better than nothing. Anyways, I don't know if I have food allergies or it could just be bad western diet food which it probably is. Most important point about dexerdrine is that it fucks with your testosterone levels so you need to be careful your test levels don't go low. Manage your stimulant well and responsibly. It's funny because I have more script than I KNOW What to do with at this point... 

[cat-nips]

Agreed.  Good that you're paying attention and noticing these things regarding food.  Wasn't aware of the relationship between Dex and testosterone.  When I tried Guanfacine, I did find some help with more detail orientation, not missing things as much, having more concentration and being able to sustain ideas, thoughts, goals a little bit more easily.  At first I thought it was a game-changer.  Hope it helps you.  I stopped because it lowered my BP and resting heart rate TOO much and it made it impossible for me to exercise.  YMMV.  When I tried it again a few months later it wasn't the same.  Double-edged sword for me as I find exercise too critical for my mental health to write off.  Keep your dosages low and consistent as to when you take it in the day or night as it can be thrown off by timing, unless you're taking the long-acting form marketed towards ADHD (Intuniv).  

[MichaelFocus22]

Agreed.  Good that you're paying attention and noticing these things regarding food.  Wasn't aware of the relationship between Dex and testosterone.  When I tried Guanfacine, I did find some help with more detail orientation, not missing things as much, having more concentration and being able to sustain ideas, thoughts, goals a little bit more easily.  At first I thought it was a game-changer.  Hope it helps you.  I stopped because it lowered my BP and resting heart rate TOO much and it made it impossible for me to exercise.  YMMV.  When I tried it again a few months later it wasn't the same.  Double-edged sword for me as I find exercise too critical for my mental health to write off.  Keep your dosages low and consistent as to when you take it in the day or night as it can be thrown off by timing, unless you're taking the long-acting form marketed towards ADHD (Intuniv).  

 

 

1. So I'll be taking some Intuiv in about two weeks and hopefully it does the same for me because I could definietly use that right now. Abeit I'm somewhat concerned about lowering my blood pressure. I'm not really all that concerned sense I will be taking the lowest therapeutic dose possible. Did you attempt to simply just force yourself to workout regardless? The idea is that your blood pressure effects should modulate yourself while your getting increased blood blow from the guanfacine due to the alpha agonists  which target more of the PFC's areas that are actually disturbed allowing you to focus more precisely I really don't know. I agree I NEED exercise abeit I've been consistently inconsistent with my works sense I've been off meds and on I'll probably get back into it. The nice thing is once you reach a certain level of strength you get to keep alot of your muscle. Granted I still do pullups and pushs ups when I can to constantly stimulate my muscles so I don't lose the muscle. I'll probably workout again today now that I think about it. Finals have been in the way so... It's not really a good excuse I'm just frustrated because I need TONS of food and water to workout like the monster that I was at SJSU.  I really need that ability to sustain better. My idea, is to max concerta at 54 or go to 36 and then take the lowest dose of intuiv then cycle 3-4-3-4, with a disgustingly good diet and workout routine and hopefully I hold down a good position and then my life will finally come together... That's the idea anyways. Granted the army was probably waaay better but I didn't wanted to get kicked out for something stupid. Something dumb almost always happens..

[cat-nips]

I stopped exercising as it became too fatiguing to do so on Guanfacine.  But that's not something that happens with everyone.  

 

Tons of cardio has great mental effects and for a few years, effectively controlled many ADHD symptoms, along with massive amounts of tea.  Problem with that is sustainability.  All that cardio, you eventually burn out and end up with some kind of adrenal insufficiency, especially if you have other things in life to attend to and can't always have a perfect diet or lifestyle to support it.  

 

The balance is supposedly a few short bursts of cardio a week, like a couple of short 20min HIIT sessions just 2-3x a week, and more regular amounts of strength and resistance training, which do not spike cortisol as much (or give that endorphin and mental stimulation in the same way either).  Physical activity is generally good in most forms for most people, but 2+ hour daily cardio sessions may become problematic if done for too long.  

 

Double check to see if you can cycle the Intuniv if that was your intention.  If I recall, Guanfacine needed daily dosing to achieve a therapeutic response and inconsistent dosing was ineffective and only increased side effects.  Intuniv is different, however.  The BP effect may be negligible enough for you that it won't make a difference in physical performance.  

[MichaelFocus22]

I stopped exercising as it became too fatiguing to do so on Guanfacine.  But that's not something that happens with everyone.  

 

Tons of cardio has great mental effects and for a few years, effectively controlled many ADHD symptoms, along with massive amounts of tea.  Problem with that is sustainability.  All that cardio, you eventually burn out and end up with some kind of adrenal insufficiency, especially if you have other things in life to attend to and can't always have a perfect diet or lifestyle to support it.  

 

The balance is supposedly a few short bursts of cardio a week, like a couple of short 20min HIIT sessions just 2-3x a week, and more regular amounts of strength and resistance training, which do not spike cortisol as much (or give that endorphin and mental stimulation in the same way either).  Physical activity is generally good in most forms for most people, but 2+ hour daily cardio sessions may become problematic if done for too long.  

 

Double check to see if you can cycle the Intuniv if that was your intention.  If I recall, Guanfacine needed daily dosing to achieve a therapeutic response and inconsistent dosing was ineffective and only increased side effects.  Intuniv is different, however.  The BP effect may be negligible enough for you that it won't make a difference in physical performance.  

 

 

1. I will be cycling both because that's what your supposed to by default to maximize those therapuetic effects over-time and I don't really  need to be medicated everyday of the week. Law of diminishing returns falls into that category as well. Cardio doesn't do anything for me, I bike everyday with tons of  physical routine and planners. Doesn't do shit so that's basically that. I'm happy I finished my paper toke fucking forever to do.. I think I have the opposite ADD TBH school isn't hard for me,working is whats hard for me. It seems like theres 2 types of ADD, one where you flunk out of school and can hold down a job or one where your solid academically but suck at work. There's not much of a middle ground it seems and again not much surprise there. I would reccomend that you do lots of weightlifting even if it's only 40% of your max, it will help you focus more and the exhaustion gets rid of the thoughts. At least they do for me... 2 things now only get rid of thoughts, is exercising like a machine or sleeping, hence why I enjoy both. Oh dance is also one of the only other few things that allows me to focus really well. Hardcore pornography used to be one but we all know thats disgusting anyways. I call them the thoughts... because the thoughts never ever go away.. Even now they are constantly bombarding me. Oh well, I'll get over it,  time for my routine. Goodluck.

Edited by DrewMichael21, 07 May 2019 - 04:42 PM.

[cat-nips]

Intuniv isn't a stimulant.  Cycling will just make it weird.  I slept for 2 days straight when I first took Guanfacine.  Around the 4th day of taking at the same time, I noticed an amazing calmness and clarity.  I would not have the same results had I cycled.  Missing doses were problematic as was changing the timing.  Intuniv has a more stable release mechanism, but taking days off made it ineffective and gave weird side effects, including increased BP fluctuations.  Do some further research on that one.  It behaves differently as its an alpha-agonist and placed in another category unrelated to stimulants and may provide benefit only when taken daily.  

 

Work was easier for me than school.  The reward is more immediate in the form of a paycheck.  Deadlines help.  

 

My biggest issue with school was getting there, tbh.  Yet, regarded as the nerdiest person in my personal circles.  Papers and tests were always done last-minute under the pressure and yeah, it sucks cause you know you could have done so much better, but learn to let that go, as you still got it done and completed it.  Accept that sustaining attention on certain things will always be a little more challenging, which is what the meds can help with to some extent.  Some peace and calm in life does wonders.  It doesn't always have to be about how much more, or how much better.  Life can be enjoyed, as is.  

[MichaelFocus22]

Intuniv isn't a stimulant.  Cycling will just make it weird.  I slept for 2 days straight when I first took Guanfacine.  Around the 4th day of taking at the same time, I noticed an amazing calmness and clarity.  I would not have the same results had I cycled.  Missing doses were problematic as was changing the timing.  Intuniv has a more stable release mechanism, but taking days off made it ineffective and gave weird side effects, including increased BP fluctuations.  Do some further research on that one.  It behaves differently as its an alpha-agonist and placed in another category unrelated to stimulants and may provide benefit only when taken daily.  

 

Work was easier for me than school.  The reward is more immediate in the form of a paycheck.  Deadlines help.  

 

My biggest issue with school was getting there, tbh.  Yet, regarded as the nerdiest person in my personal circles.  Papers and tests were always done last-minute under the pressure and yeah, it sucks cause you know you could have done so much better, but learn to let that go, as you still got it done and completed it.  Accept that sustaining attention on certain things will always be a little more challenging, which is what the meds can help with to some extent.  Some peace and calm in life does wonders.  It doesn't always have to be about how much more, or how much better.  Life can be enjoyed, as is.  

 

 

   1. Are you actually ADHD-PI? If your not then you might have an entirely other set of conditions primarily impulsivity or hyperactivity where you actually have an overarousal of your PFC and your amygdala. I don't really have this issue, it's more like I'm chronically underaroused and never have enough reward to sustain. This might explain why dexerdrine is better for you because hyperactive types typically, respond better to the amphetamine class or pure dopamine than noerephrine which is more of what I need so that I can plan better and modulate my focus and thoughts. Most of my  addictions simply come wanting to feel of being alive because I constantly feel emptyiness on almost a regular basis. I've often said ADHD-PI feels like you just exist and that's it. It makes sense because it's very hard to derive enjoyment from the normality of neurotypical existence.  Again, school really isn't that hard once you use Pomodoro's. I can easily do it without medication and I'm fairly good academically, I just suck on the job because as you stated we Have point of performance issues such as; attending details, not saying something impulsive and managing  detailed working procedural tasks without jumbling it up in are memory. I will consider keeping it consistent but it would seem strange to only cycle concerta and not cycle the intuiv as well.. I suspect you have the ability of age that probably has mellowed you out over-time. This seems to be another common trend as one gets older. As for myself, I'm too ambitious to quit and I will enjoy my life when I start crushing my goals. It's that simple. There is no compromise for me and I haven't gotten this far by accepting the fact that I've pissed away around 10 thousand dollars. This is the difference between a high functioning ADD person who realizes his problem and is constantly doing battle with it such that he or SHE can achieve what they set out to be. ADD is only a symptom of limitation, it's not if you don't let it be. This is our mission.

[Keizo]

1. Is this a sarcastic response? Most drug addicts are drug addicts because they are self-medicating for bigger issues not necessarily because they like being drug addicts. In all seriousness most supplements are useless unless you have a diet. You get all of your nutrition through your diet and if you have a bad diet then it's pretty pointless to take supplements anyways. Without a good diet my ADD goes from moderate to severe and I feel like dirt for the rest of the day. I'm especially emphasizing gluten and breads that seem to promote inflamation and cause some type of fog and high impulsivity. Stay away from canned food if or when possible. I don't have a choice at the moment but that's another issue.

 

 

This argument again.... 

 

As a Dexedrine, or other amphetamine user, it's important to take Magnesium because it can act as a very weak, NMDA antagonist, which could theoretically help keep tolerance down.  It can also provide benefits to sleep, anxiety and similar issues that most face when medicating with amps.  

 

In general, magnesium is supportive to just about every single function that happens in the body, including cognitive ones, and unfortunately most people today are deficient anyway, reason being that the magnesium levels in soil are seriously depleted and nutrition coming from food does not have the same levels of magnesium and other nutrients that it did 20-30 years ago.  Soil feeds plants, plants feed animals, hence the deficiency cycle continues.  

 

On a personal level, it's a supplement I try to not go without and one of the few that I even give to my kid a few times a week at night.  It's not a rapid night/day switch, but a buildup over time and I feel a difference within a month or two of stopping.  Heart palpitations, sleep, anxiety get a lot worse, as well as the ability to think as quickly.  It takes at least a few weeks of resuming supplementation to notice benefits again as it's a subtle buildup. 

 

The type is important.  Oxide is useful only as a laxative and poorly absorbed.  Many types cause digestive issues.  Mag Sulfate is Epsom salts and is really useful topically for sore muscles in a bath after rigorous exercise, and a treatment used by many athletes.  Glycinate, orally, is relaxing and easier on the stomach and good for sleep, leg cramps, RLS, heart functions.  There are others.  Best type for stim users is Threonate as it's able to cross the blood-brain barrier and more supportive for cognitive functioning.  

 

If Vitamins can negate the effect of stims, as in the case for Vitamin C, it stands to reason that the opposite would also be true, that some could enhance them so you continue to receive the maximum benefit and keep tolerance down.  I'd hardly call that useless.  To keep it simple, Magnesium, C, sometimes D, and the Omegas are things that everyone could benefit from.  Amp users have to space the Vit C out to ingest at a time where it won't negate the effects of the meds.  Magnesium probably as well, but not as clear on that one as I've heard some say it makes Dexedrine act smoother and longer, while some report a cancelling effect.   Being that it can be supportive for sleep, I take it at night, but haven't felt anything negative from daytime usage when I've tried, except for maybe a slight relaxing effect. 

A lot of times people come up with their ideas based on things that are far from their reality. People linking studies about all sorts of potential benefits or adverse effects when the study doesn't seem anywhere near relevant to a human taking a typical suggested dose. Scientists drilling holes in rat heads and filling it with insane amounts of a compound, or force-feeding rats with many hundred times the dose equivalent for a human. Etc. 

It's pretty common if you've been around these forums and various threads on reddit and whatnot, speculation is wild. 

 

I've heard a lot of great things about magnesium and magnesium in doses a bit or a lot beyond RDI. But if we are already talking about diet and are concerned about it then some people might get plenty of magnesium from it to serve most purposes. Just eating basic old-school things such as white potatoes, milk, meat, various beans, kale and other plants some people who have a high caloric need could easily get several times the RDI without being in a kcal surplus. The people measuring e.g. Mg levels in food today aren't using potatoes from 100 years ago, you can even find specific brands made today and their rough nutrient profile.

So you know I'm just saying it isn't obvious that supplements is necessary to get "enough" (whatever that means). However I do think that supplemental forms of magnesium are obviously great for providing a psychological benefit and a calming effect, but that doesn't necessarily mean my cells are deficient because I get that effect and I will more likely get cancer or whatever because I didn't take some unspecified amount extra beyond whatever it is I'm getting. But yes a lot of people probably will benefit in many ways beyond stress relief taking some supplemental Mg, because they aren't eating that many calories and they aren't sticking to unprocessed foods (the kind of stuff I listed for example).

 

Personally I can recommend Magnesium glycinate and Magnesium bisglycinate, citrate has a mild laxative effect on me at times.

 

As far as tolerance issues to stimulants (or particularly methylphenidate) are concerned I suspect that might be over-exaggerated, but I do personally feel that taking a week off every month or every couple of months from methylphenidate helps with the perceived effects if nothing else. I actually think the psychological boost, the small "kick", that my low dose Ritalin regime can give me is quite useful, but it does somewhat diminish over time if taken every day for months. ANd for me I found concerta to be problematic in this way, it was so easy to stop noticing the effects altogether after 4-6 weeks or so. Ritalin extended release 20mg and 10mg IR works much better for me as far as perceived effects. On the other hand I don't think there always is a correlation between perceived effects of "how well the stuff works" and ADHD symptoms. Cerebrolyisin is a very subtle substance that I rarely say "wow this really is making my days so much better and more productive" while on a cycle, but in hindsight I usually notice that it indeed has made the periods I've taken it more productive and better in general. (This is not a comparison between stimulants and Cerebrolysin and which is better, I can't answer that.)

Edited by Keizo, 08 May 2019 - 01:15 AM.

[Keizo]

I also agree with your experience regarding high-gluten foods (spaghetti white bread....), and for me I would add liquid forms of any quickly absorbed carbohydrates. Fruit juice in anything beyond a small glass at morning can make me real foggy for many hours after. I seem to do better mentally on a slightly higher fat diet as well, I think, or combining the carbs with moderate-high amounts of fat. 

[MichaelFocus22]

A lot of times people come up with their ideas based on things that are far from their reality. People linking studies about all sorts of potential benefits or adverse effects when the study doesn't seem anywhere near relevant to a human taking a typical suggested dose. Scientists drilling holes in rat heads and filling it with insane amounts of a compound, or force-feeding rats with many hundred times the dose equivalent for a human. Etc. 

It's pretty common if you've been around these forums and various threads on reddit and whatnot, speculation is wild. 

 

I've heard a lot of great things about magnesium and magnesium in doses a bit or a lot beyond RDI. But if we are already talking about diet and are concerned about it then some people might get plenty of magnesium from it to serve most purposes. Just eating basic old-school things such as white potatoes, milk, meat, various beans, kale and other plants some people who have a high caloric need could easily get several times the RDI without being in a kcal surplus. The people measuring e.g. Mg levels in food today aren't using potatoes from 100 years ago, you can even find specific brands made today and their rough nutrient profile.

So you know I'm just saying it isn't obvious that supplements is necessary to get "enough" (whatever that means). However I do think that supplemental forms of magnesium are obviously great for providing a psychological benefit and a calming effect, but that doesn't necessarily mean my cells are deficient because I get that effect and I will more likely get cancer or whatever because I didn't take some unspecified amount extra beyond whatever it is I'm getting. But yes a lot of people probably will benefit in many ways beyond stress relief taking some supplemental Mg, because they aren't eating that many calories and they aren't sticking to unprocessed foods (the kind of stuff I listed for example).

 

Personally I can recommend Magnesium glycinate and Magnesium bisglycinate, citrate has a mild laxative effect on me at times.

 

As far as tolerance issues to stimulants (or particularly methylphenidate) are concerned I suspect that might be over-exaggerated, but I do personally feel that taking a week off every month or every couple of months from methylphenidate helps with the perceived effects if nothing else. I actually think the psychological boost, the small "kick", that my low dose Ritalin regime can give me is quite useful, but it does somewhat diminish over time if taken every day for months. ANd for me I found concerta to be problematic in this way, it was so easy to stop noticing the effects altogether after 4-6 weeks or so. Ritalin extended release 20mg and 10mg IR works much better for me as far as perceived effects. On the other hand I don't think there always is a correlation between perceived effects of "how well the stuff works" and ADHD symptoms. Cerebrolyisin is a very subtle substance that I rarely say "wow this really is making my days so much better and more productive" while on a cycle, but in hindsight I usually notice that it indeed has made the periods I've taken it more productive and better in general. (This is not a comparison between stimulants and Cerebrolysin and which is better, I can't answer that.)

 

 

                         1. The issue is we need to do what is ESSENTIAL towards maximizing are focus sense we are basically gimped at the POINT OF PERFORMANCE. This is what you should be looking for.. I'm not looking for specific feeling what I'm looking for is am I more detail oriented? Am I not as reactive? Am I thinking as much? Am I somewhat emotional? Did I have a crash? These are the things you need to be asking yourself, I NEED to see  my ability to sustain an activity into the future so I can get the X prize which is what I need to achieve my goals. Medication is a tool for that.  More than likely most supplements are probably useless, let's be real here, if your actually taking the effort to EAT right, going to sleep at the right time say 930 and waking up consistently at 5 am and are working out and schedulign your days with MEDICATION. Then your mind should be well managed.. The goal is to find out what actually WORKS not to add a bunch of unnesscary things that don't actually do anything. Frankly, my life is already complicated and I like it that way but it comes at a cost. Less is more and this is probably the same principle. As for concerta, it's hit or miss, I will continue to experiment with my doctor until we find what works. It's merely  a process just like anything else. If I were you I would really concentrate on what you EAT, DRINK, when do you SLEEP. These things play a heavy role in your quality of life. Do you have someone to talk to? Is your support network strong?  ADD is really a lifetime dsyfunction and unless we can find what REALLY WORKS then we will waste lots of time.. I know I have.. Remember this disorder ROBS you of your time by prioritizing stimulus over GOALS. Hence why I would have graduated at 22 instead of 24 1/2. The difference of priorization is small by significant.. So just keep this in mind when your treating your disorder. Yes.. Western diet is definietly something I need to avoid, I just don't have enough POINTS in Life or money.. Goodluck

[cat-nips]

I also agree with your experience regarding high-gluten foods (spaghetti white bread....), and for me I would add liquid forms of any quickly absorbed carbohydrates. Fruit juice in anything beyond a small glass at morning can make me real foggy for many hours after. I seem to do better mentally on a slightly higher fat diet as well, I think, or combining the carbs with moderate-high amounts of fat. 

 

Same for me.  But it wasn't always that way.  Pretty saddening to figure out a healthy dollop of honey in tea, instead of giving me a lift, now knocks me out.  Honey, or the high amounts of fructose within, is the culprit.  Breads leave me bloated and sluggish.  Sugary, fast absorbed carbs at the wrong times, seem to knock me out as well.  I hate it.  Feel like I have to change everything as it wasn't always this way.  But then again, perhaps it was and I never paid attention, or it's getting worse now.  I can still tolerate white rice however as it seems to be a milder form of simple carb.  And paired with a source of fat in a meal seems to work best of all.  I don't follow a particular diet, but I lean towards Paleo and trend towards Asian foods of fermented vegetables and meat and fruit and veggies, but it's not always easy.  I intermittent fast most mornings/afternoons because food is such an issue and supplement with protein shakes and vitamins to compensate, and feel pretty good doing so.  

 

I don't think you should let anyone convince you of a deficiency you don't feel without some kind of objective metric.  You may do fine without it.  I did for a long time and wasn't a believer of Magnesium until a few years ago.  The heart palpitations and the cessation of them convinced me, without having to take any other meds.  I notice the sleep benefits and other subtle benefits now as well.  For my mom-in-law it was horrible leg cramps which subsided after she started Mag Malate.  But she soon stopped because she had horrible digestive issues.  Luckily the leg cramps didn't come back.  My partner used to get regular Gout attacks which have stopped since supplementing with Magnesium and Tart Cherry juice. 

 

You may not have any issues or nutrient deficiencies, but it doesn't mean that others don't as well.  A lot of the Western diet is filled with processed, packaged poison and there's still a lot of folks that don't see the correlation between a crappy diet and their lifelong medical issues like unhealthy levels of obesity, high cholesterol, mood swings, energy levels, etc. and refuse to believe that it can be related, while continuing to eat the same way, medicate with pharmaceuticals for dietary issues, and continue the cycle of suffering.  Diet isn't everything, but it does matter a great deal.  

 

Thanks for the cerebrolysin idea.  I'll have to look into it now. 

Edited by cat-nips, 08 May 2019 - 02:29 PM.

[cat-nips]

Cerebrolyisin is a very subtle substance that I rarely say "wow this really is making my days so much better and more productive" while on a cycle, but in hindsight I usually notice that it indeed has made the periods I've taken it more productive and better in general. (This is not a comparison between stimulants and Cerebrolysin and which is better, I can't answer that.)

 

I recall looking at this before, but being wary.  Is this something you cycle and take orally as a liquid or pill, or is there some other means of administration?

[Keizo]

I recall looking at this before, but being wary.  Is this something you cycle and take orally as a liquid or pill, or is there some other means of administration?

There might be pills under different names that contain something very close to one of the main active ingredients (N-pep-12 or something), maybe try emailing ever pharma https://www.everpharma.com/contact-us/ and asking if they produce any these days. But the ampoules are strictly for Intramuscular or IV injection, IV infusion above 10ml.  If I had endless money and the stuff didn't make me slightly tired over time I'd probably take it 6 months out of 12, but as it is I do  a couple of cycles each year IM, about 20 doses spread across 30 days,  2x a year, doses at 5ml. And I try to take a break from the methylphenidate during those times, or mostly.

 

Actually Memoprove seems to still be sold , I tried looking this up before but I couldn't find anything in the EU. https://www.xediton....duct/memoprove/ (just found this on google right now)

 

Various threads here and there if you google for n-pep-12.

Edited by Keizo, 08 May 2019 - 03:55 PM.

[cat-nips]

Thanks