11 replies to this topic

[EpicNMN]

I'm about a month in with my new use of MNM at 500mg per day sublingual(ABN product). And I was ready to write a glowing report on 5lbs of weight loss, a tightening of my waistline, a SIGNIFICANT improvement in GI function, and overall better skin condition. The only downside being some feelings of tiredness the first two weeks of taking it.

 

BUT, I'm now recently home from a FUN hospital stay because of a severely camping and swelling left leg. Turns out I have a very large DVT(Deep Vein Thrombosis) in my left leg and have two Pulmonary Embolisms in my upper lungs now that broke off from that DVT.

 

There are many other things that I was doing that could have caused something like this including frequent NSAID use and testosterone treatment. But those have both been going on for years and the only thing new in my life is my NMN use.

 

So I'm not saying that is was the NMN exclusively and there is no test that could ever determine that post-facto. But it does make sense to me that if NMN is a near-miracle drug for vascular lining regeneration that a lot of plaque and clots from my vascular walls could be shed in this process. and it wouldn't take much to cause just the problems I have now...

 

Seems to me it could be a lot like cleaning your house pipes. You'll have healthier pipes in the long run but the shit you clean out has to go somewhere...

 

Happy to hear any feedback or comments and would like this to be a word of caution to WATCH out for swollen limbs and unusually cramping muscle. That could mean you have some blood clots and you need to get to the doc QUICK!!!

[EpicNMN]

No way to edit posts huh... Anyways... NMN is what I meant in the title and post... To flustered to get NMN versus MnMs right Just watch for swelling people!!!  

[osris]

ChatGTP responds to the original post:
 

Fact:

 

The individual has been using NMN (Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) at 500mg per day sublingually.

The individual experienced some weight loss, tightening of the waistline, improvement in gastrointestinal (GI) function, and better skin condition.

The individual felt tiredness during the first two weeks of taking NMN.

 

Error/Unconfirmed Claims:

 

Directly attributing the Deep Vein Thrombosis (DVT) and Pulmonary Embolisms (PE) to NMN use. There is no direct evidence presented, and the individual acknowledges other factors such as frequent NSAID use and testosterone treatment.

 

The statement "if NMN is a near-miracle drug for vascular lining regeneration that a lot of plaque and clots from my vascular walls could be shed in this process" is speculative. While NMN is being studied for potential health benefits, it is not established as a "near-miracle drug" for vascular issues.

 

The analogy comparing NMN use to cleaning house pipes and shedding plaque and clots is speculative and lacks scientific evidence.

 

The suggestion to "WATCH out for swollen limbs and unusually cramping muscle" as potential signs of blood clots due to NMN use is not supported by scientific evidence and should be approached with caution. It's essential to consult a healthcare professional for accurate diagnosis and advice.

 

In summary, while the individual reports positive effects from NMN use, attributing the development of blood clots solely to NMN is speculative, and other factors should be considered. It's important to consult a healthcare professional for personalized advice and to monitor any unusual symptoms.

 

Edited by osris, 29 March 2024 - 07:47 PM.

[joesixpack]

You with the AI need to know, that AI lies and makes things up when they want to. You cannot rely on them. You especially cannot rely on them about the health aspects of the use of supplements. This means nothing, do not take this advice, it is crap.

 

Edited by joesixpack, 30 March 2024 - 08:11 AM.

[Gal220]

" It's important to consult a healthcare professional for personalized advice and to monitor any unusual symptoms."

 

How many healthcare professionals would even recommend NMN(or NR/NAD+)

[adamh]

Chatgtp in its present form is not very helpful in most cases unless you are just looking for general information. It works on a limited data set and is preprogrammed to be left wing in replies. It has not read all the studies, maybe none of them. NMN is approved for otc sales. Its not prescription so a doctor is very unlikely to recommend it. I've been taking 900mg plus some extra stuff they throw in for over a year now and have had no such side effects

 

We know correlation is not causation but its very tempting to think so. Someone was wearing a certain shirt when he bought a winning ticket so he wears the same shirt every time he buys, just in case it was the shirt that did it. Likewise, if we buy a new brand of gas and the next day the car poops out, its tempting to blame the gas or some work that was done last, or maybe it was the shirt?

 

If as you suspect, the nmn made junk in the arteries loosen up and cause some blockage downstream, that is a good thing, except for the cramps etc. Wait until you feel better then try it again. If it washed out the blockage then your arteries should be better than before.

 

I use it for several month then take a month off.

Edited by adamh, 31 March 2024 - 11:35 PM.

[joesixpack]

" It's important to consult a healthcare professional for personalized advice and to monitor any unusual symptoms."

 

How many healthcare professionals would even recommend NMN(or NR/NAD+)

We are waiting for the results of a number of studies related to positive effects on cognitive decline, long covid, cirrhosis of the liver, kidney disease, and type 2 diabetes. This is for NR, but the studies could also affect NMN as it converts to NR in order to enter cells.

Edited by joesixpack, 01 April 2024 - 02:04 AM.

[LawrenceW]

 This is for NR, but the studies could also affect NMN as it converts to NR in order to enter cells.

 

I 1st started taking NMN in July 2015 and have stayed up with all the research over the years. 

 

From the attached study that was published in 2019.

 

"We have previously shown that NMN is absorbed from the gut into blood circulation within 2–3 min and transported into tissues within 10–30 min (refs 5,15). NMN is then immediately utilized for NAD+ biosynthesis, significantly increasing NAD+ content in tis-sues over 60 min. This fast pharmacokinetics has recently been confirmed by using doubly labelled isotopic NMN (C13-D-NMN), showing its rapid absorption and conversion to NAD+ in peripheral tissues15."

 

"The fast pharmacokinetics of NMN led us to the hypothesis that there is an effective transporter that facilitates the direct uptake of NMN into the gut and other organs." 

 

"The results presented in this study strongly indicate that Slc12a8 is specific to NMN, not to NR, and its Km is consis-tent with a measured range of NMN concentrations20,25,26. Even NaMN, structurally very close to NMN, cannot be transported by Slc12a8. Furthermore, its dependency on sodium ion, but not chloride or potassium ions, and its insensitivity to WNK463 distinguish Slc12a8 from other known cation–chloride co-transporters."

Attached Files

•  NMN slc12a8 transporter.pdf   1.71MB   0 downloads

[osris]

 

We know correlation is not causation but its very tempting to think so. Someone was wearing a certain shirt when he bought a winning ticket so he wears the same shirt every time he buys, just in case it was the shirt that did it. Likewise, if we buy a new brand of gas and the next day the car poops out, its tempting to blame the gas or some work that was done last, or maybe it was the shirt?

 

 

Good point. There is no evidence hat NMN is dangerous.

Edited by osris, 12 April 2024 - 12:55 PM.

[osris]

 

You with the AI need to know, that AI lies and makes things up when they want to. You cannot rely on them. You especially cannot rely on them about the health aspects of the use of supplements. This means nothing, do not take this advice, it is crap.

 

 

Thanks, but I always cross-check what ChatGPT tells me using Pubmed. It has been very helpful in translating science abstracts into plain English for me, which I then get it to write articles about. So the articles I get it to write are not based on its inherent knowledge base but on information from Pubmed and other such databases. The same applies for when I use Google Gemini. 

 

I don’t use ChatGPT to provide accurate links,  I use Google Gemini to find links and citations because it's better at that than ChatGPT (or rather better than the free version of ChatGPT that I use), so I use that for such, and use ChatGPT to organize the information from Google Gemini, and my own Pubmed research, into coherent articles.

 

Most of the articles I post here that say "by ChatGPT" are comprised of amalgamated information and research taken from Pubmed etc. that both ChatGPT and Google Gemini parse for me. And I filter this using my own research as a "factual check". 

 

I think if used sensibly, such AI programs can add clarity to a range of topics discussed here. So banning it just for being an AI program is perhaps a bit extreme. I understand, though, that many people are negative about AI due to media hysteria. 

[joesixpack]

Sorry that my comment sounds abrupt, and unfriendly. I wrote it quickly, on the run.

 

I have had some experience with ChatGPT and at first found it to useful, and helpful. I gave it a couple of queries that were quite specific, and the information I got back were suspect. It seemed to be trying to give me answers and information that I wanted, but not necessarily correct. I learned quickly that you have to fact check it carefully, as it is very good at presenting made up information, and having it sound correct.

 

The best example that I found concerned a legal review, that I watched, about a motion filed by Michael Cohen's lawyer seeking to reduce his time in house arrest. The motion cited several cases and case summaries. that supported his reasoning and request.

 

The Court looked up the citations and found that the cases were fake, and do not exist. This is a big deal in Federal Court, and the Court brought the attorney in to explain why he should not be sanctioned for this conduct.

 

To make a long story short, the lawyer who filed the motion for Cohen got the cases from Cohen. Cohen asked him to use them in the motion. He did not check them out because he thought Cohen got them from another, respected lawyer they both knew. However that was not the case.

 

Cohen had found the cases using Google's AI. I believe it is called Google Bard. Apparently when the AI was not able to find any cases to support Hunter's Motion, it made up a couple and those are the cases he gave to his attorney.

 

You can watch the presentation here: https://www.youtube....h?v=Dwlb8uGC0kA  (Warning:The lawyer describing and showing the documents is politically biased, so don't watch it if you are prone to being "triggered")

 

 

[osris]

No need to apologize. I too found similar issues with ChatGPT about a year ago. While it gave mostly correct answers, some where inaccurate, and the links it provided were either dead ones or made up. 

 

I have learned from trial and error with it to always use it as an aid to my research and not a final source. It is a bit like Wikipedia in some ways, in that it is a very useful tool to begin to research a topic, but it has to be used along with other sources, and one's own research abilities.

 

One aspect of it that I find very helpful, is that it is very good at simplifying hard to understand (for me anyway) science abstracts. And it also helps me to organize disjointed pieces of information into a coherent and readable form.

 

Last year, my experience with Google Bard (now called Google Gemini) was much worse than that of ChatGPT. Almost everything I asked Bard was inaccurate, and the links it gave were all inaccurate or non-existent. It would also "lie" to me. So I stopped using it. Then when I heard that it had a new name, I checked it out again, and was surprised to find that it was much better. Maybe the complaints it got made the programmers improve it. 

 

It is updated every few weeks months, so it will be more accurate than the free version of ChatGPT, which was last updated in January 2022. I use both it and ChatGPT to help me write articles. In a few years, I think the shortcomings they now have will have been sorted out. Like any new technology, it will get better. 

 

 

Edited by osris, 13 April 2024 - 12:27 PM.