39 replies to this topic

[Ghostrider]

For those who received good effects from Aniracetam, how does it compare with Piracetam? I have been using Aniracetam at low dosages, 400 - 700 mg, for two days now and the stuff seems to help my mental endurance. For those who found Aniracetam helpful, how does it compare with the other *racetams that you have tried? If I could gain the same effects from Piracetam, I would switch as Piracetam is slightly cheaper and has been used for longer.

[intelligence]

Piracetam for me was a roller coaster of confusion...... dont get me wrong, i loved it, but it took a few days to get past the strange drowsiness i felt..... this may have something to do with the increased energy turnover in the brain - for example - a scrawny chess player bench presses for the first time to increase his size... finds himself exhausted after one rep... that is the best way i can describe it... i did however find that when stacked piracetam with vinpocetine, centrophenoxine, lecithin, and a daily multi (and about a week adjustment period) that my musical ability was VASTLY improved.... i have been a musician for many a year and this to me was a godsend

As for aniracetam, i have found that the effects are much more endurance related as you mentioned... taken before a long day at work i find myself constantly in motion... two, three, sometimes four tasks being handled at once.... this seems to fall in line with the majority of research on this aspect of aniracetam.... it doesnt necessarilly make you a genius instantaniously, however, when the complexity of your task increases aniracetam's magnificence shines through.

as for your question on switching to piracetam, i dont necessarilly suggest it. Id say that your best bet is to head to www.bulknutrition.com and grab a tub of piracetam (700 grams) for 20 bucks. then you can stack the two together and in turn, take less of each. Aniracetam is, in my research, amongst the strongest easily attainable racetams (as opposed to leviracetam, nefiracetam, etc.) and you will certainly be quite dissapointed if you leave it behind altogether for piracetam...

ALSO! - try oxiracetam... it's somewhere in the middle of piracetam and aniracetam as far as potency is concerned.

ENJOY!

[exigentsky]

"...a scrawny chess player bench presses for the first time to increase his size... finds himself exhausted after one rep..."

Being a scrawny chess player, I resent that.

Anyway, back to Aniracetam and Piracetam. I don't think either one helped me. Even with sufficient choline supplementation, I often felt excessively tired when on them. Furthermore, they seemed to cause irrelevant substitution in my mind. For example, I would want to say word X and maybe I have a tendency to say the similar word Xx. It was almost as if they caused a sort of mental confusion or overload. On the other hand, this may be a symptom of a more associative memory being hyperactive. They have their pros and cons. For example, I did notice a slight improvement in my memory for everyday events and in the usual rote drilling of material required for tests. Despite this, I think their side effects of tiredness and odd substitutions made them more of a drag than a boost. Thus, I gave it up after 2-3 weeks on and off. (I still have a bottle of Piracetam and Aniracetam.)

As for the difference between the two, I reallly didn't feel any. Maybe Aniracetam gave me less tiredness, but that's about it.

Of course, nootropics are notorious for being dependent on the individual and also on how long they are taken consistently. Perhaps with more time, these mild side-effects would have gone away. Don't be too discouraged by my experience. I am probably an exception. They seem to benefit most people and I think you should give Piracetam a try for at least three weeks. Then, evaluate their efficacy/cost and make a decision as to whether or not you should continue.

Edited by exigentsky, 17 May 2006 - 02:41 AM.

[exigentsky]

ALSO!  -  try oxiracetam... it's somewhere in the middle of piracetam and aniracetam as far as potency is concerned.
ENJOY!

Actually, Oxiracetam should be the most potent of the racetams.

[doug123]

Actually, Oxiracetam should be the most potent of the racetams.

On a mg/kg basis, Pramiracetam seems to be the most powerful -- but in terms of effectiveness -- I don't think Pram is any more effective than Aniracetam or Oxiracetam.

[exigentsky]

Yeah, you're right, but I meant the most potent of *those* racetams. Sorry for the confusion.

[doug123]

Oh: so out of Oxiracetam, Aniracetam, and Piracetam you think Oxiracetam is the most effective -- at what exactly?

I do believe the Piracetam family exhibits some effects, but for most people it's not quite what they are looking for in a cogntive enhancer. Folks want a discernible effect -- they don't want to be guessing if they "feel it." Of course, we are all going to tell ourselves that we "feel smarter" than we did before we started our extensive nootropic stacks.

The data from research on elderly subjects tell us there are significant improvements in memory scores after several months of treatment. So, at minimum, if you want results -- it appears you must start by taking your racetam(s) for a month or more.

[intelligence]

actually, the bulk of scientific evidence states that in comparison to piracetam, oxiracetam is approx. 3 times as potent while aniracetam is somewhere between 5 and 10 times as potent... but thats trivial in the matter as we should focus more on the effects of these drugs as opposed to the mg:mg potency...

nootropikamil makes a solid point when he says that the effects of piracetam will be felt after at least a few weeks... you shouldnt take it expecting it to feel an instantanous rush of mind energy because it doesnt directly stimulate any particular neuropathways in your brain... from my fairly well researched understanding, piracetam works to potentiate the ion current between nerve synapses (for example, running electricity through gold as opposed to copper - theres less resistance) and it also increases the fluidity of your brain "juices." The effects of such an increase in brain potential usually takes weeks if not a month or two to fully harness.

as for the drowsiness, piracetam selectively enhances theta brain waves (the abstract, creative, slower, sleepier ones you feel right before you hit the sack for the night) which explains the ! INTENSE ! dreams... after a few days the drowsiness subsides for the most part but it could be argued that if theta brain waves are associated with tiredness then no matter what, piracetam will always "make you more tired" - which is why aniracetam in the morning is a nice touch. As opposed to piracetam, aniracetam has shown consistantly to promote beta and alpha brain waves which are associated with being awake and alert. the combination of the two results (usually) in the best of both worlds... the creative comfort of theta brain waves with the wakeful urgency and witful tact of beta/alpha.

VERY strongly recommended for musicians as the effects open up a channel of creative effectiveness that is useful in both the listening and performance aspects of constructive thought. also (and im not suggesting that anyone do this who is not comfortable with the notion) as piracetam does increase musical awareness, there is a definate noticable synergy with marajuana where the music flows quite smoothly without the doped out effects of being stoned. Im not promoting the use of the substance as it is quite illegal however i am strongly inclined to inform you that piracetam and THC is the single most enjoyable combination of drugs i have ever experienced.

[intelligence]

oh, and exigentsky. dont get me wrong... i wasnt using scrawny to describe the negative physical state of the stereotypical chess player... I was just using it to enhance the imagery of the metaphor. I myself could be considered scrawny... although i do maintain physical fitness lift regularly im still 5'9" and 140lbs so i speak these words from an unbiased perspective :-)

[mentatpsi]

Intelligence, do you have a link on the research of the consistent increase in alpha and beta EEG with Aniracetam. I believe as far as the Piracetam the increased theta might be related to increase EEG cooperation and decreased complexity. I wonder as far as potency, I don't think Oxiracetam & Piracetam can be compared with Aniracetam since the mechanisms of action and effects are different, Aniracetam works through Dopamine receptor site 2 (inhibitory) modulation, Serotonin, and a couple others. The modulation of D2 would account for the Alpha and Beta, but throughout my research i didn't find an exact article stating that about Aniracetam. I'm about to try an Oxiracetam & aniracetam combination, but the problem is a brain fog that develops which i imagine is due to low levels of ACh, i wonder if Oxiracetam due to a lower mg/kg ratio might also require less of a ACh supplementation.

Edited by mysticpsi, 14 November 2007 - 11:05 AM.

[luv2increase]

Um, if you look at the dates of these posts mysticpsi, you'd realize that intelligence doesn't post here anymore. lol


Go to google scholar and look there for the information you are looking for.

[mentatpsi]

<.< Haha operating on no sleep isn't working so well... This is actually the first time i heard of google scholar, been using medline alongside other research databases for my information. Thanks for the notification alongside the link. If i may ask are you not yourself using Aniracetam? May i ask how it goes.

Edited by mysticpsi, 14 November 2007 - 05:26 PM.

[luv2increase]

Currently I'm not taking anything besides a multi-vitamin. I started drinking again. When I stop that sh*t, I'll just be taking piracetam. I think that piracetam is better than aniracetam. This I believe has much to do with genetics. In the majority of cases in which I've read about, a person is either a responder to piracetam only or aniracetam only. There isn't many instances when ppl respond positively to both, at least not many. I respond much better to piracetam than aniracetam. I respond well to oxiracetam, but it makes me very very irritable and depressed until it wears off.

[rebuild101]

I started drinking again. When I stop that sh*t, I'll just be taking piracetam.

Why not start the piracetam now ? =) This was probably an individual experience as is the case with many noots, but I found piracetam made me less interested in drinking. Actually, and as you probably already know, some prescribe it for alcoholism (not saying that's where you're at):

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Alcoholism

Sources from the wikipedia article

# ^ Skondia, V. & Kabes, J., "Piracetam in alcoholic psychoses: a double-blind, crossover, placebo controlled study", J Int Med Res 13, (1985) pp.185-187.
# ^ S Kalmár, Adjuvant therapy with parenteral piracetam in alcohol withdrawal delirium, Orv Hetil (2003) 144: pp.927-30.
# ^ Buranji I, Skocilic Z, Kozaric-Kovacic D. "Cognitive function in alcoholics in a double-blind study of piracetam, Lijec Vjesn 1990 Mar-Apr;112(3-4):111-4.
# ^ Dencker SJ, Wilhelmson G, Carlsson E, Bereen FJ. "Piracetam and chlormethiazole in acute alcohol withdrawal: a controlled clinical trial." J Int Med Res 1978;6(5):395-400.
# ^ Meyer JG, Forst R, Meyer-Wahl L. "Course of alcoholic predelirium during treatment with piracetam: results of serial psychometric tests (author's transl)", Dtsch Med Wochenschr 1979 Jun 22;104(25):911-4
^ Binder S, Doddabela P. "The efficacy of Piracetam on the mental functional capacity of chronic alcoholics (author's transl)", Med Klin 1976 Apr 23;71(17):711-6


Then again, drinking is a huge part of being in your twenties, right? ;-)

[mentatpsi]

I don't know i responded well to both (though better to Piracetam), aside from the emotional flat line experienced with Aniracetam. I find that when mixed together, incredibly excessive amounts of a Choline supplement must be taken, otherwise resultant brain fog, plus it has an incredibly low half life, though reaching base line at 6 hours. Aniracetam was investigated for ADHD and Anxiety type disorders in a research:
http://www.blackwell...6.x&cookieSet=1

I must get moving, but best of luck.

[jackj]

I tried Aniracetam and Oxi after my Piracetam ran out. To be honest I found no real effect from either other than perhaps a slightly hyper thought (speedy) feeling after a week or so of Ani.

I'm back on Pirac and after about eight months of use the conclusion I've come is its doesn't actually make me smarter by somehow boosting my "IQ". If anything it just allows me to filter the noise and concentrate. So I'm guessing I've always been slightly ADD in that the thoughts have always been there its just I could never follow them through or nut them out correctly.

I also find it taken before bed I get a much more restful sleep. Usually I'm always moving or waking up. If I'm tired enough on Pirac once I'm asleep I'll be out cold 'till morning.

[meatwad]

Anyone ever tried a 1ml scoop of the racetams?

1ml scoop from BAC aniracetam and 1ml scoop of piracetam is great.

More damaged your brain the more useful it appears to be.

[technico]

I tried the piracetam once a number of years ago and had to stop after just three days - it was giving me migraines. Any ideas on the factors that might have precluded a successful run?

I'm very inclined to give the other 'tams another try, what are the recommended co-factors and dosages? Any preferred sources? :whis:

[jackj]

I tried the piracetam once a number of years ago and had to stop after just three days - it was giving me migraines. Any ideas on the factors that might have precluded a successful run?

I'm very inclined to give the other 'tams another try, what are the recommended co-factors and dosages? Any preferred sources? :whis:

I started on the Nootropil brand and then went for a "bulk" powder, both worked fine. I was just swallowing the Pirac bulk powder at first but its was rank tasting and the effect wasn't what it used to be. Now i just pack my own pills and it works much better (gets into my digestion better I suppose). I also take Alpha GPC bulk powder for Choline and I don't get the headaches as often but now and then I do, nothing major, getting some fresh air usually fixes it. I was getting shocking headache in the beginning when taking Hydergine as well but I stopped that shortly after as I heard it was a dodgy product anyway (I read something about some sources not being the real thing). I also find a cup of coffee also helps kick start things. I take three 800mg pills spaced through the day, sometimes more if I'm feeling keen but if I have nothing to work on the temples start to throb at that dose.

I also take Mucuna pruriens if I'm doing anything social as I find if I'm not working and still dosed on Pirac' I can be a tad impatient with people, I find Mucuna makes me want to engage with people. Its also increased my lean muscle mass by quiet a bit with along with some basic Yoga.

Also a proper diet is also needed as usual, start there first.. fish, beans and fruit weekly along with the exercise and multi, I use the "Swisse" one.

I've also noticed a slight depressive episodes every few weeks. They are usually short or maybe caused by something but I can deal with that these days and its nothing huge. As to it being caused by the Pirac' directly I'm not sure at this stage. I think I'd get it regardless.. so yeah its worth looking out for although I think its probably due to occasionally over doing the alcohol. :whis:

BTW can anyone point out why I wouldn't put 5htp into this mix? I used to take it alone and don't think I need it anymore but I'd like to know why not.

Edited by unlucid, 24 November 2007 - 04:38 PM.

[rick]

I've tried Piracetam as well as Oxy and Ani. I found Piracetam to be much more stimulating and overall more effective. This could be that due to the cost of the latter two I was hesitant to really pump up the dose, but really if they are so potent I shouldn't have needed to.

[coq10]

I've tried Piracetam as well as Oxy and Ani. I found Piracetam to be much more stimulating and overall more effective. This could be that due to the cost of the latter two I was hesitant to really pump up the dose, but really if they are so potent I shouldn't have needed to.

Bulk Oxi at BB is pretty cheap and at about a gram a day works out pretty well.

[abelard lindsay]

I used to drink a bit too before I started taking Piracetam too. Now alcohol is completely repulsive to me. It gets in the way of my social life a bit since it's such a part of the culture. Also Oxiracetam has a really strong effect on me. It's like my brain works differently when I take it.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 08 December 2007 - 05:37 AM.

[MP11]

Does anyone know how similar aniracetam's (and oxiracetam's) excretion impact is in comparison with piracetam's?

[luv2increase]

I've tried Piracetam as well as Oxy and Ani. I found Piracetam to be much more stimulating and overall more effective. This could be that due to the cost of the latter two I was hesitant to really pump up the dose, but really if they are so potent I shouldn't have needed to.

Bulk Oxi at BB is pretty cheap and at about a gram a day works out pretty well.

Oxiracetam is the strongest (requiring the lowest mg) racetam I've used. I'll have to bulk up on some at BB.

Yeah, oxiracetam is the strongest for me as well as in overall effects, but it makes me edgy, down, feel weird, and speedy.

[luv2increase]

I've tried Piracetam as well as Oxy and Ani. I found Piracetam to be much more stimulating and overall more effective. This could be that due to the cost of the latter two I was hesitant to really pump up the dose, but really if they are so potent I shouldn't have needed to.

Bulk Oxi at BB is pretty cheap and at about a gram a day works out pretty well.

Oxiracetam is the strongest (requiring the lowest mg) racetam I've used. I'll have to bulk up on some at BB.

Yeah, oxiracetam is the strongest for me as well as in overall effects, but it makes me edgy, down, feel weird, and speedy.

What dose did you use?

I think it was two 1/4 tsp fulls. Whatever that equates out to. I think like 1600mg or so. It was a month or two ago, and I can't find the bottle. It was BN brand. Now back in April I started taking around 1/8 tsp with aniracetam and piracetam for awhile. Didn't have the negative effects like that, but by itself it doesn't do well with me. I remember trying even lower dosages by itself and choline of course. This just caused the speediness and edginess to be less pronounced. Uncomfortable all around. I think piracetam is the safest. I will continue only with that with regard to the racetams.

Edited by luv2increase, 23 December 2007 - 03:39 AM.

[Rags847]

Piracetam is the only one I use.
My few attempts using Aniracetam and Oxiracetam felt speedy and decreased my concentration while reading.
Aniracetam had a negative animal study published in Japan and it was pulled from legal status there.
Pramiracetam increases NO levels in the brain by 20% I read in a study on PubMed and that doesn't sound safe to me. It hasn't been around or tested enough.
The racetams have very different effects on the brain and it's neurotransmitter pathways - different mechanisms of action, though they are chemically related to each other.
Piracetam with Citicoline is it for me.
Citicoline because it crosses the blood-brain barrier and slightly increases dopamine and serotonin levels (off-setting choline's potential depressive effects) vs GPC Choline which increases hGH levels (don't think I need that).

Edited by Rags847, 23 December 2007 - 04:26 AM.

[MP11]

Piracetam is the only one I use.
My few attempts using Aniracetam and Oxiracetam felt speedy and decreased my concentration while reading.
Aniracetam had a negative animal study published in Japan and it was pulled from legal status there.
Pramiracetam increases NO levels in the brain by 20% I read in a study on PubMed and that doesn't sound safe to me. It hasn't been around or tested enough.
The racetams have very different effects on the brain and it's neurotransmitter pathways - different mechanisms of action, though they are chemically related to each other.
Piracetam with Citicoline is it for me.
Citicoline because it crosses the blood-brain barrier and slightly increases dopamine and serotonin levels (off-setting choline's potential depressive effects) vs GPC Choline which increases hGH levels (don't think I need that).

Why do you want to avoid NO (assuming you mean Nitric Oxide)?