136 replies to this topic

[biggyrat]

Thanks Daniel. Yes.. agree re curcumin. I just heard before that this was white. Anyway, I guess I will give it a try!  

[biggyrat]

I got a price from sophie at sonwu biotech. they have been in business for 6 years and have a 4.8 star rating and 

 

https://sonwu.en.ali....2ce83e5frdoC5o

 

50 grams of j 147 for $775

 

If anyone wants to go in on a buy since I don't need 50 grams I'd be willing to put the order in

I don't know if you ever did a group buy with this, and/ or if you are still looking to buy from them. I will see how the power that I got from AASRAW works for me. If I like the effect, once I am out, I would be interested in going in on this.  Seems like much better pricing. 

[aribadabar]

Looking at online sellers I see the color of J-147 referred to as yellow, light pink, light orange, and off white.

 

You would sort of suspect something that was yellow to orange given that it is a derivative of curcumin.

 

J147 is only loosely related to curcumin:

 

 

The one that I received from another Chinese vendor is off white.

Perhaps The Capybara, having a known good specimen, can confirm the right appearance/colour.

[Daniel Cooper]

It's strange that there seems to be so much variation in the reported color from different vendors. I suppose that would be down to what their specific impurities are.

 

I looked at Sigma Aldrich's page on it but I didn't see color in their physical properties. 

 

 

[APBT]

I contacted AASraw and received this reply within 24 hours; she didn't indicate how payment was made:

This is Joanne from AASraw. Thank you for your inquiry.
J-147 powder: purity is more than 98% and full in stock
Price: 5g/USD130; 10g/USD240
Shipping cost: USD60 (within 500g -- USA special line)
The goods can be sent out within 12 hours after payment.
The delivery to USA will take 10-12 working days.
 

I received a follow-up email from AASraw this morning:

 

I am so sorry! I just found that I made a wrong price to you. I must be blind. Beg your forgiveness.

In order to show my apologies and as compensation, I will apply to the company to give you a free increment of 1 to 2 grams J-147 powder.

And here is the correct price, please help to check it again: 

J-147 powder: 10g /USD300

Shipping cost: USD60 (within 500g -- USA special line)

Total price: USD360

Payment methods: bitcoin and bank transfer. Which one can you accept? 

 

Best regards,

Joanne

[APBT]

It's strange that there seems to be so much variation in the reported color from different vendors. I suppose that would be down to what their specific impurities are.

 

I looked at Sigma Aldrich's page on it but I didn't see color in their physical properties. 

From science.bio data sheet:

 

Solubility:

Soluble in DMSO and Ethanol

 

Organoleptic Profile:

Fine, light yellow powder

[biggyrat]

 

From science.bio data sheet:

 

Solubility:

Soluble in DMSO and Ethanol

 

Organoleptic Profile:

Fine, light yellow powder

 

Hi APBT- would this mean that one should take the powder along with some DMSO or Ethanol?   Or does it mean that the process to make the powder uses DMSO and Ethanol? 

 

Thanks..

[p75213]

I believe that I'm entering my third year of using J-147.
After having to lower my dose substantially (it's all in the thread above), I've raised it slightly by adding propranolol to mitigate the moderate rise in blood pressure.
This seems to be working well.
If I went back to my original dose of 40mg/day, which was unbelievably positive for the first year, my blood pressure would not be so easily controlled with propranolol.
For full disclosure, I have started taking a few milligrams of rapamycin once a week.
Though both compounds work (in part) through mTOR inhibition, there doesn't seem to be any negative interactions.
I have had seborrheic dermatitis since my teens, and could not comfortably grow a beard because off this. I treated the condition topically with tar gel or ketoconazole shampoo with good, but imperfect results.
Within days of taking my first dose of rapamycin, the seborrheic dermatitis vanished, In contrast, J-147 had no effect on this condition.
I'm maybe 6 months out on the rapamycin, so it's not likely to be non-causal.

Just felt I should check in.

What dose do you suggest to be effective and minimize any side effects? I see you reduced your dose from 40mg due to increased BP.
I am thinking of trying this myself and also giving it to my 95 yo. mother who has alzheimer's (nothing to lose and maybe something to gain).

[The Capybara]

Let me chime in here on a few concerns and topics brought up recently.

 

I have been using this compound for going on three years now, and have always purchased from Aasraw.

I buy via wire transfer (outside of Alibaba etc), and have never had an issue with them shipping, and so far, no shipments have been stopped by customs.

Back when I began to order from them, their product was indeed third party tested here in the US. I've not tested since then simply because the product has always maintained the same appearance, taste/odor, and effects.

I continue to order from them. After all, if it isn't broke, why fix it?

I am not compensated by Aasraw at all.

 

The J-147 powder is absolutely tasteless, without an obvious odor, and is an off white color, a guess you could call it a little yellow/brown.

It's insoluble when you toss it in your mouth.

 

What follows are my opinions and observations. They are absolutely not medical advice.

If medical advice is what your looking for, talk to your physician.

He/she is the person in the white lab coat that is typically no healthier than the average American, the one that will tell you how well your doing as you age your way into.....well look at the average 70 year old.

Everybody I know has started at 40mg without issue irrespective of weight, age, or health.

My best guess is that 50% or more of people subjectively feel absolutely no benefits from this.

I don't know why this is, and this response also seems to be independent of weight, age, health, and gender.

It could be that the 40mg dose is too low for those that don't respond.

It could be that they are indeed responding biochemically in a positive way, but simply don't get the "superhuman" physical abilities described at the start of this thread.

I do know that all those that didn't respond that I've met, stopped using the compound.

 

Unpublished studies show that J-147 is better absorbed with fatty foods. I've not noticed a difference between taking it on an empty stomach, and after a fat laden meal.

I would not take this with DMSO, or ethanol or any solvent. I don't know why people want to speculatively try to improve absorption rather than just taking more of the compound when the cost is pretty reasonable.

It's likely that much of the J-147 will precipitate out in your stomach if you drank it in solution with ethanol, unless (maybe), you used a good amount of ethanol.

The other issue there is, why is more better?

If you read the thread, always a good idea, I had issues with heat intolerance with larger doses. It almost certainly increases ones metabolic rate. The fact that propranolol seems to counter that effect, seems to validate that hypothesis.

It took awhile for memory to really ramp up for me, but it did.

It may have been the rapamycin working along side the J-147. That's pure speculation.

Of interest is that rapamycin is indeed a major candidate for treating dementia.

See: https://stm.sciencem...6/eaar4289.full

 

 

 

 

[Billy]

Hi Capybara, do you live in the US and have the J-147 delivered to you directly?

Contemplating an order from AAsraw but they initially set off all red flags with regards to the online fraud basics 101 manual.

I just made that up about the manual but it's suspicious nonetheless. 

Why do they only accept wire transfer and why do they not process through Alibaba?

 

Thank you for all your input and contributions.

[APBT]

It took awhile for memory to really ramp up for me, but it did.

 

 

Could you quantify more specifically, how long it took for your memory to improve?

What aspects of memory improved?

Did working memory improve? 

[APBT]

I contacted science.bio to ask who their supplier is for J-147; following is their response.

 

I'm afraid we're not able to disclose information on the suppliers we use. Our raw materials are synthesized by large scale manufacturers and contract research organizations (CROs). Our manufacturers are primarily based in China. Some are based in Europe and America. This is for economic reasons, it is simply less expensive.

There is justifiable concern about non-Western manufacturers whose regulations are less strict, if not completely unenforced. The modern chemical manufacturing industry is dominated by China. It is highly likely any industrial, nutraceutical or pharmaceutical product you are working with was processed in China.

This is not a concern however as long as your vendor is conducting third party analysis. You should always demand evidence of third party analysis for your research supplies.

Our non-API materials are sourced domestically, including solvents, packaging and containers.

 

[The Capybara]

For me, it seems that my memory improved in two phases.

the first occurred when the depression lifted.

That's pretty typical when an antidepressant works well (in this case the J-147). This took less than a week.

The second phase may have been steady and progressive, but unnoticed at the time because it was a continuing process.

At some point name recall (something I've always been horrible with) seemed far more fluid and effortless.

I don't know if there has ever been a time in the last year or so, when I'd park my car in a large parking lot, and then have then have to search for it.

I'm amazed at some of my recall, especially things from academia that can be really complex.

I'd guess at about 2 years, post J-147, memory has been awesome.

On refection, it could have been a continuing process that suddenly became really noticeable, though I can't discount the addition of rapamycin aiding in the process.

[Billy]

Hmmmm. This has peaked my intrigue to a point where I needed to take it a step further. 

So at the webpage for J147 on science.bio they very cleverly have a "batch purity report" under their "third party analysis" tab.

https://science.bio/...uct-description

 

The report was performed by S&N Labs in Santa Ana, California on June 2, 2020. 

Now this has me all worked up so what do I do? I called the number and someone actually answered. 

A woman, clearly American, or Asian with an excellent Pacific Northwest accent, gave me an email account which would be directed to non-other then Neil E. Spingam Ph.D.

The person responsible for the report.

She said attach the report to the email and request a report verification. 

Could this all be some elaborate network of evil? Feasible yes!

I still think all these products originate from the same basement in China and all these labs are on the payroll.

All joking aside. I did send in the request and will post the response upon receipt. 

There's another lab in Tennessee listed on their site and I left them a voicemail.

Stay tuned. 

[biggyrat]

Thanks for all your feedback on this Capybara.  So as far as taking it,  I've been thinking it was a sublingual. But since you mentioned fat soluble ( I know that curcumin is, hadn't thought of that for J147 as well),  I mixed it in with a bit of whole milk kefir.   So far I'm not noticing much.. been taking it for maybe 4 days at this point.  Also, regarding measuring out the dosages, are you actually weighing the powder?  I've been just using one of those long handled red plastic micro spoons that are specifically for taking with powders.. don't know if anyone is familiar.  I think supposed to be about 10 - 15 mg per spoon.  Depending of course.  I'm mostly hoping it will help with depression at this point.  Memory too but that's not getting in the way for me as much as depression does. 

Thanks...

Let me chime in here on a few concerns and topics brought up recently.

 

I have been using this compound for going on three years now, and have always purchased from Aasraw.

I buy via wire transfer (outside of Alibaba etc), and have never had an issue with them shipping, and so far, no shipments have been stopped by customs.

Back when I began to order from them, their product was indeed third party tested here in the US. I've not tested since then simply because the product has always maintained the same appearance, taste/odor, and effects.

I continue to order from them. After all, if it isn't broke, why fix it?

I am not compensated by Aasraw at all.

 

The J-147 powder is absolutely tasteless, without an obvious odor, and is an off white color, a guess you could call it a little yellow/brown.

It's insoluble when you toss it in your mouth.

 

What follows are my opinions and observations. They are absolutely not medical advice.

If medical advice is what your looking for, talk to your physician.

He/she is the person in the white lab coat that is typically no healthier than the average American, the one that will tell you how well your doing as you age your way into.....well look at the average 70 year old.

Everybody I know has started at 40mg without issue irrespective of weight, age, or health.

My best guess is that 50% or more of people subjectively feel absolutely no benefits from this.

I don't know why this is, and this response also seems to be independent of weight, age, health, and gender.

It could be that the 40mg dose is too low for those that don't respond.

It could be that they are indeed responding biochemically in a positive way, but simply don't get the "superhuman" physical abilities described at the start of this thread.

I do know that all those that didn't respond that I've met, stopped using the compound.

 

Unpublished studies show that J-147 is better absorbed with fatty foods. I've not noticed a difference between taking it on an empty stomach, and after a fat laden meal.

I would not take this with DMSO, or ethanol or any solvent. I don't know why people want to speculatively try to improve absorption rather than just taking more of the compound when the cost is pretty reasonable.

It's likely that much of the J-147 will precipitate out in your stomach if you drank it in solution with ethanol, unless (maybe), you used a good amount of ethanol.

The other issue there is, why is more better?

If you read the thread, always a good idea, I had issues with heat intolerance with larger doses. It almost certainly increases ones metabolic rate. The fact that propranolol seems to counter that effect, seems to validate that hypothesis.

It took awhile for memory to really ramp up for me, but it did.

It may have been the rapamycin working along side the J-147. That's pure speculation.

Of interest is that rapamycin is indeed a major candidate for treating dementia.

See: https://stm.sciencem...6/eaar4289.full

 

Edited by biggyrat, 31 August 2020 - 10:53 PM.

[p75213]

I contacted science.bio to ask who their supplier is for J-147; following is their response.

I checked with a few vendors on Alibaba and most will offer third party analysis on condition you purchase a minimum of 1 kg or are willing to pay an extra $200 - ouch.

[The Capybara]

You really need a fairly accurate milligram scale to work with this stuff.

I highly recommend the Horizon Pro 20B scale. It'll last for years, has calibration weights, and costs under $30 on eBay.

[biggyrat]

Thanks much. 

You really need a fairly accurate milligram scale to work with this stuff.

I highly recommend the Horizon Pro 20B scale. It'll last for years, has calibration weights, and costs under $30 on eBay.

 

[OlderThanThou2]

Regarding curcumin, some companies use a combination of curcumin with fenugreek to improve absorption. For instance life extension's new curcumin product:

https://www.lifeexte...urmeric-extract

 

Here's the papers they cite in their references:

https://www.scienced...756464615000535

Improved blood–brain-barrier permeability and tissue distribution following the oral administration of a food-grade formulation of curcumin with fenugreek fibre

 

 

Abstract

The delivery of significant concentrations of biologically active free curcuminoids (curcumin, demethoxycurcumin and bisdemethoxycurcumin) at the target tissues has always been regarded as a major limitation for the efficacy of curcumin. Herein we report the blood–brain-barrier permeability, tissue distribution and enhanced bioavailability of free curcuminoids following the oral administration of a food grade curcumin formulation in comparison with the standardized native curcumin, for the first time. UPLC-ESI-MS/MS analyses of post-administration tissue samples of Wistar rats (200 mg/kg body weight) demonstrated significant (p <0.001) enhancement in plasma bioavailability (25-fold), in vivo stability and blood–brain-barrier permeability as evidenced from the tissue distribution of free curcuminoids at, (ng/g), brain (343 ± 64.7), heart (391.7 ± 102.5), liver (445.52 ± 83), kidney (240.1 ± 47.2), and spleen (229.72 ± 42.2), with extended elimination half-life of 3 to 4 h. Standard curcumin, on the other hand, detected only 1.4 ± 0.8 ng/g of curcumin in the brain tissues.

 

https://www.scienced...756464616000426

Enhanced bioavailability and relative distribution of free (unconjugated) curcuminoids following the oral administration of a food-grade formulation with fenugreek dietary fibre: A randomised double-blind crossover study

 

 

Abstract

Despite the various reports on enhanced bioavailable formulations of curcumin, systemic oral bioavailability of unconjugated curcuminoids remains a challenge. Considering the differences in plasma bioactivity and membrane permeability of free curcuminoids over conjugated metabolites, herein we report a randomised double-blinded crossover study (n = 50) to investigate the relative bioavailability and pharmacokinetics of free curcuminoids following the oral administration of high (1000 mg) and low (250 mg) doses of a food-grade formulation of curcumin with fenugreek dietary fibre as curcumagalactomannosides (CGM), which was reported to exhibit improved blood-brain – barrier permeability in rats. CGM administration provided over 45.5-fold enhancement in free curcuminoids bioavailability with improved pharmacokinetics when compared to unformulated standard curcumin. Further investigations with and without enzymatic hydrolysis of plasma collected over 5 h post-administration of CGM at 1000 mg dose revealed higher free curcuminoids in plasma (74 ± 8%) as compared to conjugated curcuminoids (26 ± 12%) indicating a significant distribution of free curcuminoids over conjugated curcumin metabolites.

 

[Daniel Cooper]

I contacted science.bio to ask who their supplier is for J-147; following is their response.

I'm afraid we're not able to disclose information on the suppliers we use. Our raw materials are synthesized by large scale manufacturers and contract research organizations (CROs). Our manufacturers are primarily based in China. Some are based in Europe and America. This is for economic reasons, it is simply less expensive.

There is justifiable concern about non-Western manufacturers whose regulations are less strict, if not completely unenforced. The modern chemical manufacturing industry is dominated by China. It is highly likely any industrial, nutraceutical or pharmaceutical product you are working with was processed in China.

This is not a concern however as long as your vendor is conducting third party analysis. You should always demand evidence of third party analysis for your research supplies.

Our non-API materials are sourced domestically, including solvents, packaging and containers.

Not saying there is any issue with science.bio, but that bolded statement which I've heard from many vendors always sticks in my craw.

If you're selling a product sourced from a supplier, particularly a Chinese supplier, they shouldn't be conducting third party testing, you should be doing it.

Assuming that their third party lab is reputable, you have no idea if the sample they sent the lab is from the same production batch as what they're selling you. In fact, you don't know that they didn't procure it from someone that knows how to make high quality material then sent that off to be tested, while they're sending you the low quality stuff they produce.  There is no chain of custody on the tested material to link it in any what to what you are receiving from your supplier.

 

The only way to do this and be assured of the quality of the compound that you're sending your customer is to test the actual material you are receiving from your supplier.  Ideally, you should be testing every batch that you receive before you turn it into a finished product.  You should at least be doing random lot testing if you want to keep your Chinese supplier honest and ensure you aren't selling your customers something that might harm them.

 

Also, when I have asked for some sort of testing results, I can't count the number of times I've received results two, three, or four years old, which is useless.  Assuming your supplier actually sent a sample of the product he's selling off to be tested, if that was three years ago all that proves is that maybe what he was selling three years ago was the real deal. It says nothing about what you received a month ago and capped up and sold to your customer today.

 

Relying on a supplier, particularly a Chinese supplier, to conduct testing of the product he's selling you is pure foolishness.  

 

 

 

[APBT]

Here's another J-147 powder source: https://teamtlr.com/...ts=4#/amount-3g

[p75213]

You really need a fairly accurate milligram scale to work with this stuff.
I highly recommend the Horizon Pro 20B scale. It'll last for years, has calibration weights, and costs under $30 on eBay.

Another option is to use a diluent at a ratio of say 8:1. Mix it with a mortar and pestle using geometric dilution. A 40mg dose would then become 320mg.

[biggyrat]

Another option is to use a diluent at a ratio of say 8:1. Mix it with a mortar and pestle using geometric dilution. A 40mg dose would then become 320mg.

Thanks for the idea to use volumetric dosing.   For a diluent.. water?  Vodka/ Tequila ( what I have on hand). Any thoughts about this? 

 

And I'm not sure what you mean by 40 mg dose would become 320 mg. 

 

If I have 5 grams of J147 and want to be able to measure out 40 mg,  that would be 5000 mg/ 40 mg= 125?  So I just need to mix the J147 with 125 ML ( or some other unit) and then measure out my 40 mg?  

 

Thanks,

 

Sally

[pro-v]

Don’t dissolve it all at once, only about 10-14 days worth at a time. Just dissolve a half gram(500mg) in your solvent of choice until you get to 100ml and then you’ll have a 5mg/ml solution. A cheapo milligram scale that cost $25 will get you within a milligram of your target using volumetric dilution.

[biggyrat]

Don’t dissolve it all at once, only about 10-14 days worth at a time. Just dissolve a half gram(500mg) in your solvent of choice until you get to 100ml and then you’ll have a 5mg/ml solution. A cheapo milligram scale that cost $25 will get you within a milligram of your target using volumetric dilution.

Thank you.  I just don't know what my solvent of choice would be.  Is it better to use alcohol? Or is water good enough?  And if alcohol, can it be something like Tequila? 

[p75213]

Thanks for the idea to use volumetric dosing.   For a diluent.. water?  Vodka/ Tequila ( what I have on hand). Any thoughts about this? 

 

And I'm not sure what you mean by 40 mg dose would become 320 mg. 

 

If I have 5 grams of J147 and want to be able to measure out 40 mg,  that would be 5000 mg/ 40 mg= 125?  So I just need to mix the J147 with 125 ML ( or some other unit) and then measure out my 40 mg?  

 

Thanks,

 

Sally

Actually I was thinking of mixing it with a powder. Lactose is a popular diluent, however erythritol is readily available from my local supermarket so I'll probably use that.

[biggyrat]

Actually I was thinking of mixing it with a powder. Lactose is a popular diluent, however erythritol is readily available from my local supermarket so I'll probably use that.

Aah.. gotcha. Thanks. I don't think I would be confident about being able to mix it evenly with a powder. 

[p75213]

Aah.. gotcha. Thanks. I don't think I would be confident about being able to mix it bevenly with a powder.

Google "geometric dilution". It's not rocket science. Start with say 2 grams of j471 add 2 grams of diluent and mix with mortar and pestle. Now add 4 grams of diluent and mix again. Finally add 8 grams of diluent and repeat. As a final step I put the completed mix in a jar and shake it up for a minute or two. That's it - 8:1 mix. So a 40 mg dose of j471 is 320 mg of the diluted j471.

Edited by p75213, 11 September 2020 - 07:39 AM.

[pro-v]

Thank you. I just don't know what my solvent of choice would be. Is it better to use alcohol? Or is water good enough? And if alcohol, can it be something like Tequila?

The only info I’ve found for solubility mentions it’s highly soluble in DMSO and insoluble in water. You’ll have to use tequila or a higher proof alcohol to test it out.

Edit: sciencebio’s website notes it is soluble in ethanol so most high proof alcohols should work.

Edited by pro-v, 11 September 2020 - 12:45 PM.

[APBT]

What is the best way to store J-147 powder: room temperature, refrigerator, freezer?