10 replies to this topic

[brosci]

For quite some time, I've been trying to get to the bottom of whether or not supplemental ALCAR / CDP-Choline / TMG and other similar compounds have any cardiovascular implications via TMAO gut fermentation. I've never been able to get to the bottom of it.

 

In reading about substances that limit conversion, I've come across DMB.

 

I've read that it's in red wine and balsamic vinegar, neither of which I consume regularly. I'm curious if there are supplemental sources? (grape seed extract?)

[GABAergic]

DMB is found in some balsamic vinegars, red wines, and some cold-pressed extra virgin olive oils and grapeseed oils

 

what other supplements would you need? its pretty clear what contains it and its researched well by now, might as well just take those easily available, non-toxic, long term proven safe and effective sources!?

[brosci]

DMB is found in some balsamic vinegars, red wines, and some cold-pressed extra virgin olive oils and grapeseed oils

 

what other supplements would you need? its pretty clear what contains it and its researched well by now, might as well just take those easily available, non-toxic, long term proven safe and effective sources!?

 

Lead is also found in balsamic vinegar and ethanol in red wine, although, I do eat olive oil. I was just curious if there was crossover into other polyphenolic compounds commonly supplemented.

[GABAergic]

uhm the little amount of balsamic vinegar used for salad dressings, im pretty sure youll consume more lead from the actual salad. does this really stop you from using it besides the horrible taste/smell? lol

and no i dont know anything else besides DMB being researched for this and those are the only sources that i can find. from another reading, if you change your bacteria you might not produce TMAO as much and just supplement choline without much issue.

[brosci]

I believe to decrease the bacteria count that feed on choline / carnitine, you need to decrease choline / carnitine intake. I don't believe you can simultaneously supplement and cut out the bacteria that metabolize it. Any idea how much DMB you would get from a typical grocery store balsamic (enough to actually change metabolites) ?

Edited by brosci, 27 May 2019 - 03:10 AM.

[GABAergic]

well, you mentioned red wine has ethanol. why are you scared of ethanol? any particular issues, like allergies or some health problems? because in my personal experience, ill always use red wine with red meat and ill have normal cholesterol levels. i dunno about the amount in balsamic vinegar, but im certain red wine contains way more because you cannot drink a whole glass of vinegar but also because red wine has both the benefits of grapeseed oil (has grapes and grape seeds) plus its fermented and has resveratrol. think about it man.

[GABAergic]

btw man, what is your problem you already made such a thread; https://www.longecit...-by-supplement/ and then you were steered to a much better interesting thread on there but you decided to make this one instead?

[brosci]

btw man, what is your problem

 

Hmm, I truly apologize for my curiosity.

[GABAergic]

you just took one bit of what i said and got upset. dude i didnt mean to offend you, i was just curious why you made such thread already and people helped you out there already and you make another one now? i mean go back to it, there is a link to more information the guys helped you out there. :/

[brosci]

you just took one bit of what i said and got upset. dude i didnt mean to offend you, i was just curious why you made such thread already and people helped you out there already and you make another one now? i mean go back to it, there is a link to more information the guys helped you out there. :/

 

In my head, this thread: "Alpha-GPC, CDP-Choline, ALCAR, TMG -- TMAO production by supplement?" was for determining which of those supplements might have a higher propensity for TMAO production. Often, I hear about fermentation in the context of red meat, or L-Carnitine, but there's little comparison against say ALCAR or CDP-Choline (I believe CDP-choline has much less actual choline in it than aGPC?) Only recently did I learn that betaine converted to TMAO -- how does it compare against L-carnitine?

 

The other thread, "Supplemental DMB" was for determining which supplements might be a better source of DMB than taking up wine drinking and eating more balsamic vinegar. It reminded me of trying to get a metabolically active dose of resveratrol from vinegar, when better supplemental options exist. If there aren't any commercially available DMB supplements, it seemed like a way to put a flag down for future use. I had considered these to be separate discussion points, so I fired up a new thread. In retrospect, I guess I should have bumped the older post for the latter topic.

Edited by brosci, 27 May 2019 - 10:53 PM.

[GABAergic]

why are you scared of red wine? ever seen this page; https://en.wikipedia...content_in_wine

thats more than all the vegetables and fruits combined!