40 replies to this topic

[Rorororo]

If possible I'd like to get some feedback from users of astaxanthin or anyone that has any knowledge of this carotenoid. Is it worth taking? I'm considering a trial run of 12mg. So far all of the studies I've read have been positive. This is probably the only antioxidant that I've never read anything negative about. (perhaps due to its ability to never turn pro-oxidant) What do you all think?

Thanks

[Daniel Cooper]

I've also started taking 12mg for cardiovascular health.
 
This supplement was all the rage about 6 years ago.  I haven't really found much negative about it.  I guess I chalk up the recent cooling of enthusiasm to the fadism that seems to pervade the supplement industry.  We always seem to be chasing the latest flavor of the day.
 
I just read a Korean study showing /decreased LDL and ApoB.  However, that was at 20mg/day if I recall.  I'm still researching before I just up to that level.
 
Positive effects of astaxanthin on lipid profiles and oxidative stress in overweight subjects
 

 

[Rorororo]

Daniel thanks for the reply.. always find your posts here helpful.

To be honest I've been taking 20mg synthetic astaxanthin since the 28th of April. Maybe I should have been honest with my initial post but I decided to try another route in the hopes of sparking some feedback.

But anyway this stuff is great. Within the first week of taking it I noticed my vision had improved (less eye strain). After ~2 months I noticed the little bit of gray in my beard was gone. Also, libido has increased which is kind of ironic since it has been shown to be a DHT inhibitor. But I think that the study I'm referring to included Saw Palmetto and it's the SP that was primarily responsible for this. Anyway it's great stuff I will continue to take it. The stuff I take has 10mg in each capsule along with 300mg green tea extract. (I take 2 each day)

Edited by Rorororo, 29 July 2019 - 10:37 PM.

[Daniel Cooper]

Yes, Saw Palmetto is basically "nature's finasteride" with respect to DHT (though not as powerful).

 

So you've been on 20mg for 2 months and no unwanted side effects?  Good to know.  I'm taking the Jarrow 12 mg Astaxanthin.  I've been contemplating bumping up to 2x per day for 24 mg.

 

What brand supplement are you taking that combines Green Tea?  Sounds interesting.

 

 

[Rorororo]

The one I take is from a Canadian company called Celex Labs. The brand name is Vorst. I had to buy it on Amazon since I live in the US and they don't sell directly to US consumers through their website.

I know most people are turned off with synthetics. I decided to give it a shot based on cost limitations and realizing that all of the negative feedback on synthetic asta was coming from companies that make the natural version. Nearly all of the studies that were done on asta were funded by the very same companies. It was obvious that part of their agenda was making sure synthetic asta was viewed in a negative light.

That being said, I've never tried the natural version so I can't make any comparisons. However, this stuff is working so I'll stick with it.

[Daniel Cooper]

Synthetics don't turn me off at all.  If it's the same molecule, it's the same molecule. Whether it came out of an algae or beaker.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rorororo]

Lol I bought 32 bottles and I'm set until January 2021

[Rorororo]

Daniel do you know of any supplement that could help increase its absorption? Since it's in free form I already take it with a high fat meal but is there anything else that you're aware of that could potentially increase its absorption?

[Daniel Cooper]

A fat containing meal as you are doing is a good start. 
 
Aside from that a liposomal encapsulated Astaxanthin seems like it would be a good idea, but a quick Google search didn't reveal much available commercially, though you might look more carefully than I did.
 
Here's a study on the subject that concludes that bioavailability can be enhanced with Polysorbate 80.  I wonder if there is a commercial Astaxanthin supplement that contains it?
 
Oral bioavailability of the antioxidant astaxanthin in humans is enhanced by incorporation of lipid based formulations

 

I suppose you could just buy some food grade Polysorbate 80 and take a small amount with your Astaxanthin capsules.

 

 

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 30 July 2019 - 06:12 PM.

[Rorororo]

Sometimes I'll take it right after eating ice cream as it lists Polysorbate 80 as one of the ingredients. As you can see I'm very unorthodox. Lol

However now I'm questioning that method:
https://www.truthina.../polysorbate-80

[Rorororo]

Sometimes I'll take it right after eating ice cream as it lists Polysorbate 80 as one of the ingredients. As you can see I'm very unorthodox. Lol

However now I'm questioning that method:
https://www.truthina.../polysorbate-80

"According to the World Intellectual Property Organization, which is part of the United Nations, scientists from the organization are developing vaccines specifically to damage fertility as a method of contraception. A suggested ingredient for the vaccine is tween 80 (polysorbate 80)."

[Daniel Cooper]

"According to the World Intellectual Property Organization, which is part of the United Nations, scientists from the organization are developing vaccines specifically to damage fertility as a method of contraception. A suggested ingredient for the vaccine is tween 80 (polysorbate 80)."

 

 

Yeah, but I'm going to guess that some component of that vaccine needs an emulsifier, that it is not an active ingredient otherwise.

 

If I'm not mistaken it's on the GRAS (Generally Recognized As Safe) list both in the US and in Europe.  It's a common ingredient in many food items.  

 

I don't doubt that if you inject/ingest enough of this stuff you might end up with cancer, but that's probably also true of cinnamon and black pepper as well. 

 

If you don't like PS 80, I highly suspect that limonene (from citrus peels) would work as well (though I don't have the experimental data to prove it).  You can also find that as a supplement in capsule form as well.  It's a pretty good emulsifier for fats/lipids as well.

[Rorororo]

Ok so would it be safe to say that PS 80's action as an emulsifier is most likely the reason for asta's improved absorption? It breaks it down more effectively allowing for better assimilation? It makes perfect sense.

Limonene may be a great choice as I imagine it contains lots of vitamin C and the 2 seem to work synergistically:
https://www.scienced...887233312001609

Just have to be careful with taking vitamin C with food and monitor iron levels.

[Ibbz]

A fat containing meal as you are doing is a good start. 
 
Aside from that a liposomal encapsulated Astaxanthin seems like it would be a good idea, but a quick Google search didn't reveal much available commercially, though you might look more carefully than I did.
 
Here's a study on the subject that concludes that bioavailability can be enhanced with Polysorbate 80.  I wonder if there is a commercial Astaxanthin supplement that contains it?
 
Oral bioavailability of the antioxidant astaxanthin in humans is enhanced by incorporation of lipid based formulations

 

I suppose you could just buy some food grade Polysorbate 80 and take a small amount with your Astaxanthin capsules.

 

Life Extension produce one with Phospholipids -

 

https://www.lifeexte...h-Phospholipids

 

Not sure on the actual amount of improved absorption of their Phospholipids blend compared to regular Astaxanthin though.

Edited by Ibbz, 31 July 2019 - 07:24 AM.

[Rorororo]

Ibbz Life Extension only makes them in 4 mg. I never understood why they never made them in other dosages.

[Rorororo]

Late last year Cardax launched the CHASE trial but I don't think they have published the results yet. Shouldn't they have done so by now? Maybe it was a bust?

https://ir.cardaxpha...trial-targeting

[faxmulder]

Hi guys,

I’d like to supplement astaxanthin (4mg twice daily) as well.

However, I’m concerned about the 5 alpha reductase inhibition effects, and correlated decrease in DHT. It seems that in that regard asta is even more potent than saw palmetto.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...ubmed/16093232/

Recent in-vitro studies report that the carotenoid Astaxanthin (AX) from Haematococcus pluvialis is a more potent inhibitor of 5AR than the Saw Palmetto berry lipid extract (SPLE) from Serenoa repens.

 

 

The rest of my stack is: taurine, BSO, ginseng (cycled with royal jelly and cordyceps), B complex, magnesium, Vit D3, K2

 

I was thinking about adding zinc (anti-aromatase effects) and glycine (should increase in DHT), in order to counteract potential astaxanthin’s anti-androgenic effects. What do you think?

Thanks!!

[Roby]

Are you worried about dht inhibition because of reducing libido? I took megadoses of the stuff for weeks like over 200mgs and didn't feel any side effects in that regard, if anything libido improved. I was taking it as a anti inflammatory which I think works maybe.
There was a study that showed in rats it increased sperm quantity.

[Rorororo]

faxmulder If you are going to take zinc and glycine for the sole purpose of countering any effects from asta, I would suggest you try the asta by itself first and see if you experience any effects that you perceive as negative. A lot of my friends use it and neither them nor myself have ever experienced any decrease in libido. In fact, it slightly increased it for me.

Also, the half life of asta is close to 16 hours. I take 20mg once per day (after dinner). It stays in the body for quite some time so there really is no need to separate the doses.

Edited by Rorororo, 07 August 2019 - 03:48 PM.

[faxmulder]

Are you worried about dht inhibition because of reducing libido? I took megadoses of the stuff for weeks like over 200mgs and didn't feel any side effects in that regard, if anything libido improved. I was taking it as a anti inflammatory which I think works maybe.
There was a study that showed in rats it increased sperm quantity.

 

Yeah, I'm concerned because I've experienced some loss of libido with curcumin, which is another  5 alpha reductase inhibitor. Maybe asta 4 or 8mg is not such a big dosage...

 

However, the thing that I'm really afraid is potential gynecomastia. 

My reasoning is: since asta seems to increase testosterone, without an aromatase inhibitor (zinc or vit E maybe) or something that increases DHT (glycine), I'm concerned about the consequent increase in estradiol --> gyno

 

Did you notice any "change" in this regard? Consider that: I'm male 34, at the moment I'm not working out, diet in check, the rest of my stack is the above

 

thanks!

[Daniel Cooper]

I take Life Extension Super Bio Curcumin 400mg twice per day for 3 years now and have zero excess breast tissue.  No gynecomastia whatsoever.

 

I've only recently started taking 24mg astaxanthin so I can't really speak to that.

 

 

[Roby]

No gyno symptoms, I'm quite skinny tho. If it was a really good dht blocker then why hasn't it stopped my hair falling out?

[faxmulder]

No gyno symptoms, I'm quite skinny tho. If it was a really good dht blocker then why hasn't it stopped my hair falling out?

 

thanks, I believe I could try a low dosage (4mg), adding also zinc and glycine, and see how it goes.

[Roby]

No gyno symptoms, I'm quite skinny tho. If it was a really good dht blocker then why hasn't it stopped my hair falling out?

[dazed1]

Bioastin vs other formulations? hype or worth it?

[Rorororo]

dazed1 the good thing about astaxanthin (at least in my case) is that I can gauge how well it's working. Before I started taking it I would notice that sometimes my vision would be blurry while reading subtitles on television, especially if I didn't get much sleep the night before. Now, even if I get zero sleep I can read the subtitles clearly. No blurriness whatsoever. That benefit alone is one of the reasons I continue taking it. Too many benefits to list and nothing negative reported in studies.

I can't comment on "Bioastin" as I've never tried the natural stuff. I use a synthetic version.

Edited by Rorororo, 11 August 2019 - 11:29 PM.

[BieraK]

The 16 hours half-life from Astaxanthin looks interesting, there is no need to dose several times a. What other antioxidants and "indirect" antioxidant works in a similar way?
 

If your are concerned about libido loss from 4-alpha reductase inhibition, which in my opinion is not as potent compared to drugs like finasteride, you could incorporate Maca and Ashwagandha in your stack, both of which work in many cases to increase libido, in my case Maca has always given me good results.

 

Gynecomastia due to the use of 4-alpha reductase inhibitors can be avoided by inhibiting the aromatase enzyme, the theory behind this is that excess Testosterone is converted into Estrogen because 5-alpha reductase inhibition leads to more free T available, so the body converts it to Estrogen. By the inhibition of aromatase your body prevents sides like Gynocomastia by not touching the free T. I take 0.25 mg of finasteride every day and I can tell you that at a dose of 0.5 mg the side effects start to be noticed, even with the current dose I cannot tell you that I am "side effects free" however 50 mg of Epilobium Parviflorum extract 20: 1 is enough to avoid gynecomastia. In the past I started to feel some nipple sensitivity with 0.5 mg/day of Finasteride, I started to use Epilobium and such side effect disappeared then I lowered my dose to 0.25 mg/day 

 

Epilobium is widely used in Spanish forums about hair loss to counteract the side effects of the use of finasteride, however is not so common in english language forums. 

[faxmulder]

 

The 16 hours half-life from Astaxanthin looks interesting, there is no need to dose several times a. What other antioxidants and "indirect" antioxidant works in a similar way?
 

If your are concerned about libido loss from 4-alpha reductase inhibition, which in my opinion is not as potent compared to drugs like finasteride, you could incorporate Maca and Ashwagandha in your stack, both of which work in many cases to increase libido, in my case Maca has always given me good results.

 

Gynecomastia due to the use of 4-alpha reductase inhibitors can be avoided by inhibiting the aromatase enzyme, the theory behind this is that excess Testosterone is converted into Estrogen because 5-alpha reductase inhibition leads to more free T available, so the body converts it to Estrogen. By the inhibition of aromatase your body prevents sides like Gynocomastia by not touching the free T. I take 0.25 mg of finasteride every day and I can tell you that at a dose of 0.5 mg the side effects start to be noticed, even with the current dose I cannot tell you that I am "side effects free" however 50 mg of Epilobium Parviflorum extract 20: 1 is enough to avoid gynecomastia. In the past I started to feel some nipple sensitivity with 0.5 mg/day of Finasteride, I started to use Epilobium and such side effect disappeared then I lowered my dose to 0.25 mg/day 

 

Epilobium is widely used in Spanish forums about hair loss to counteract the side effects of the use of finasteride, however is not so common in english language forums. 

 

 

Thanks mate.

Do you have any experience with zinc or vitamin E as anti-aromatase? I’ve read that also resveratrol/grape seed extract should help with this.

I’ve added glycine to my stack, since it should increase DHT.

[BieraK]

Thanks mate.

Do you have any experience with zinc or vitamin E as anti-aromatase? I’ve read that also resveratrol/grape seed extract should help with this.

I’ve added glycine to my stack, since it should increase DHT.

I used Zinc in the past for reducing the side of finasteride, I stacked it with epilobium.

 

Grape seed/pine bark extract has been as a part of my daily stack for years.

I can only talk about my experience: In my perception, grape seed does not do much for preventing sides of finasteride, however I don't know if the side could be notorious and more powerful without it. I tend to think that it helps.

 

I have used only zinc+grape seed with finasteride without epilobium for a period of time. No side effects from finas to report. 

 

I have try to reduce DHT because it makes my body hair to growth thicker and larger after anaerobic exercise, before restarting finasteride in the 2017 my body hair had this strange effect. Since I suffer from Male pattern baldness I tend to think my hair follicles are so sensitive to DHT, perhaps I have to much DHT receptors. With finasteride plus Zinc+Grape seed I don't noticed this side effect.

 

However as I said before, Epilobium Alone is enough for doing the job. I don't think curcumin or astaxanthin are at the same level of 5-alpha reductase inhibition like finasteride, so give it a try with Zinc+Grape seed. Both are very good supplements. I recommend Zinc Sulfate.

For grape seed, 200 mg x 2 or 3 a day. It works as an antioxidant and think it will stack well with Astaxanthin, it also increases blood flow, and is good for cardiovascular health. I use it for prevention of varicose veins. I'm pretty sure both have some synergism. 

 

If you want to try Epilobium, I get mine from badmonkeybotanicals, I haven't found another extract of 20:1 

Edited by BieraK, 17 August 2019 - 01:16 AM.

[faxmulder]

I used Zinc in the past for reducing the side of finasteride, I stacked it with epilobium.

Grape seed/pine bark extract has been as a part of my daily stack for years.
I can only talk about my experience: In my perception, grape seed does not do much for preventing sides of finasteride, however I don't know if the side could be notorious and more powerful without it. I tend to think that it helps.

I have used only zinc+grape seed with finasteride without epilobium for a period of time. No side effects from finas to report.

I have try to reduce DHT because it makes my body hair to growth thicker and larger after anaerobic exercise, before restarting finasteride in the 2017 my body hair had this strange effect. Since I suffer from Male pattern baldness I tend to think my hair follicles are so sensitive to DHT, perhaps I have to much DHT receptors. With finasteride plus Zinc+Grape seed I don't noticed this side effect.

However as I said before, Epilobium Alone is enough for doing the job. I don't think curcumin or astaxanthin are at the same level of 5-alpha reductase inhibition like finasteride, so give it a try with Zinc+Grape seed. Both are very good supplements. I recommend Zinc Sulfate.
For grape seed, 200 mg x 2 or 3 a day. It works as an antioxidant and think it will stack well with Astaxanthin, it also increases blood flow, and is good for cardiovascular health. I use it for prevention of varicose veins. I'm pretty sure both have some synergism.

If you want to try Epilobium, I get mine from badmonkeybotanicals, I haven't found another extract of 20:1