6 replies to this topic

[lukas_93]

Hey I recently watched this panel discussion about regenerative medicine:  

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=e0vKOYQUmgg

 

And I have always been fascinated by the topic of hair loss and potential for regrowth, maybe because I suffer from hair loss myself.

 

I have recently used dermarollers and switched to dermapens but only found them effective in regrowing hair up to a few mms. 

Since dermarolling is actually just wounding, extra cellular matrix could enhance the healing process and hopefully trigger regeneration I was curious if one could combine them. 

 

I found out that this has actually been done in conjunction with PRP. (https://nyhairloss.c...r-regeneration/ ; posting the link as source not as advertisement)

 

In the panel discussion extraction of ECM sounds super easy (Stephan Badylak explains it at the 13:00 min mark) 

 

1) Just get a pig bladder. 

2) Remove some stuff 

3) Wash it out (using baby shampoo?) 

4) Turn it into a liquid somehow ( What would one use for that?)

5) Done? 

 

What am I missing? I mean putting a pig bladder on your wounded skull sounds like a really bad idea after all :D 

 

Thanks in advance. 

 

Note. Obviously I don't want anyone to try this at home, nor will I try this without the consultation of a physician. 

 

 

 

 

[Rays]

The before and after pictures on that website show hair of different length, which makes it a bad comparison. Obviously, that's done for marketing purposes, but it makes the company untrustworthy to me.

 

[lukas_93]

The before and after pictures on that website show hair of different length, which makes it a bad comparison. Obviously, that's done for marketing purposes, but it makes the company untrustworthy to me.

 

Yeah, I completely agree, probably a bad example. 

If you google PRP hair treatment you find hundreds of images with varying results. Most show a slight improvement. 

I would be interested in the combination of ECM + PRP. 

And if one would be able to do it by him/herself, since the procedure does not seem too difficult. 

[YOLF]

I priced out the equipment for PRP. It isn't very expensive. Just a $130 centrifuge, some disposable vials (~$10 for 100), and the means for extraction and implantation (~$30 for 100). PRP is also only nominally better than using ABI, mostly in that it doesn't require a centrifuge and doesn't cause as unsightly a bruise ? The real challenge would be doing all of the injections.

 

I suppose having it done professionally with adipose derived mesenchymal SCs might actually be the best way to get it done as it would tighten up the face if it happened to increase adipose tissue on the scalp. So a knifeless face and neck lift, and keep your hair, how cool would that be?

[YOLF]

Yeah, I completely agree, probably a bad example. 

If you google PRP hair treatment you find hundreds of images with varying results. Most show a slight improvement. 

I would be interested in the combination of ECM + PRP. 

And if one would be able to do it by him/herself, since the procedure does not seem too difficult. 

 

It may be more complicated than just using ECM unless this company is making something just for hair follicles. 

 

 

 

The animal extracellular matrix includes the interstitial matrix and the basement membrane.^[5] Interstitial matrix is present between various animal cells (i.e., in the intercellular spaces). Gels of polysaccharides and fibrous proteins fill the interstitial space and act as a compression buffer against the stress placed on the ECM.^[6] Basement membranes are sheet-like depositions of ECM on which various epithelial cells rest. Each type of connective tissue in animals has a type of ECM: collagen fibers and bone mineral comprise the ECM of bone tissue; reticular fibers and ground substance comprise the ECM of loose connective tissue; and blood plasma is the ECM of blood.

 

There are however cosmetic peptides which are capable of ECM remodelling such as those in Matrixyl and Matrixyl 3000 as well as some newer ones. I suppose getting the right balance or one that reproduces an analogous balance for hair follicles might be less complicated? The plasma from blood might help, but it's particular balance could be the limiting factor and might produce an ECM which is less than ideal for growing hair and which requires additional remodelling. Perhaps with the PRP treatments, this happens over time? How long did the before and after pictures go? Also, did they have before and afters for multiple PRP treatments? IIRC, anything involving stem cells generally shows a pattern of efficacy that is frequency dependent. 

[lukas_93]

It may be more complicated than just using ECM unless this company is making something just for hair follicles. 

 

 

There are however cosmetic peptides which are capable of ECM remodelling such as those in Matrixyl and Matrixyl 3000 as well as some newer ones. I suppose getting the right balance or one that reproduces an analogous balance for hair follicles might be less complicated? The plasma from blood might help, but it's particular balance could be the limiting factor and might produce an ECM which is less than ideal for growing hair and which requires additional remodelling. Perhaps with the PRP treatments, this happens over time? How long did the before and after pictures go? Also, did they have before and afters for multiple PRP treatments? IIRC, anything involving stem cells generally shows a pattern of efficacy that is frequency dependent. 

 

Good point. Nice I never heard of those peptides. Do you think the response is similar for remodeled ECM and exogenous ECM? Would you suggest a combination of Derma Rolling to increase absorption? Would be super interesting to test out!  

 

Usually with PRP only treatments from what I read there are 4-6 injections in the first year. Starting with 2 injections in the first month and then spacing them out over the year. For PRP and ACell combination (https://www.youtube....h?v=RmEc6b44_eQ) 2 treatments for the first year seem enough. I think most of the photos are taken 6-12 months after the treatment. 

 

Thanks to @YOLF for estimating the costs. Depending on where you live PRP can easily cost you around 400 $ for ONE injection ... DAMN.

[YOLF]

Remodelled vs. exogenous ECM? Well, form determining function as it is, the most contiguous or consistant ECM is going to create the best environment for signaling between cells. Mismatched ECMs could lead to cellular deformations or significant changes in function, though I don't think it would be very risky to use a more or less universal or generic ECM. In some cases, I imagine cellular functions could even be improved, though I don't have any idea as to which cases this might apply.