7 replies to this topic

[Sicko]

Hi, I posted a little while ago about my experience after taking mainly Lysine for a little over a week, for my Epstein Barr virus (I also have Hashimoto's and Bartonella). I did take olive leaf extract for a couple days within the same time span as the lysine, so either one or both might be contributing to how I'm feeling now, but I think the Lysine definitely has something to do with it.

 

So I took lysine for 8 or 9 days, I started with 500mg, then after a day or two went up to 1g at a time, per day. At the same time, I cut chocolate and sunflower seeds out of my diet. My reasoning for doing these things were that I had a diagnosis of Epstein Barr (Mononucleosis) from earlier in the year, which appears to be chronic, as I don't have it acutely, and don't remember when I did have mono acutely before. But the idea was to increase the lysine:arginine ratio which would help tame the epstein barr virus, since epstein barr is a herpes virus, and herpes viruses replicate in the presence of arginine.

 

So I started taking lysine, and pretty much right away I could tell that I felt different. First I thought it was a good thing, less anxious, more foggy, but I thought it was fine. But then it stayed the same, and got worse. I stopped taking it after 8 or 9 days. So now it's been over 2 weeks since I stopped taking the lysine, but I still feel messed up by it.

 

I feel like I've lost my social wherewithal. I feel out of it to the degree of not caring, or not having the ability to care about people or things as much. This makes me anxious because I feel stupid in social situations now. I've always had a pretty keen social acuity, which lead to anxiety, but now I feel stupid and lost, which also leads to anxiety and depression. I'm quite fatigued as well, sleeping more than usual. 

 

I thought maybe the lysine actually activated the epstein barr virus more, or activated my body against it, so now I'm experience more of the symptoms of epstein barr? Or maybe the lysine screwed up my immune system in the wrong way (I believe I'm more TH2 dominant, and I have high thyroid antibodies). I've taken some other things that have messed me up concerningly for long periods of time (indefinitely). Back in 2015 I took a multivitamin and another spray just for a few days (https://www.holistic...0-capsules.html and https://www.holistic...gaba-spray.html) from a company that really screwed me up for a couple years (high anxiety, not able to express myself normally).

 

Then I tried low dose naltrexone (LDN) 4 separate times for about a week each. The last time I took it, when I was on it, I felt like I was kind of on cocaine in a way, then I crashed really hard. After that things drastically changed in my life, as it was the first time I had experienced deep depression before. That took maybe a year to resolve, if at all, because I still experience depression in that way.

 

So I have experience with things really messing me up for a long period of time from taking them for not a long period of time. I guess my body is pretty sensitive, or my immune system is messed up and if it's activated wrong, it will wreak havoc on me.

 

But with these new symptoms, I'm concerned, and I hope they go away. Does anybody have any idea of why that might have happened with taking the lysine, and why I'm still feeling messed up from it more than 2 weeks after stopping taking it?

Edited by Sicko, 07 December 2019 - 03:22 AM.

[Sicko]

I suppose it could partly be a placebo effect from cyclical thinking of me worrying about not having social wherewithal, then thinking that I don't. But I still think there's something to it, because I also feel really out of it, bordering on confusion. I just can't get grounded, so I don't want to do anything, and can't process situations correctly.

[Sicko]

Maybe lysine caused higher ammonia levels in me? 

 

https://academic.oup...9/9/943/5676681 - Evidence is assembled that lysine acts as an intracellular hydrogen ion acceptor, causing increased ammonia formation and increased potassium excretion in certain disease states.

 

and 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.../pubmed/6476119 - These results indicate that arginine mitigates ammonia intoxication in the rat by increasing ornithine carbamoyltransferase activity through increased ornithine availability and not via activation of N-acetylglutamate synthetase.

 

fuck

 

But there's also this

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/10831173 - We thus conclude that an acute increase in plasma lysine caused minimal clinical or biochemical untoward effects in patients with LPI (lysinuric protein intolerance). Moderate increases in plasma lysine after low-dose oral supplementation with lysine or well-absorbed lysine derivatives are probably well tolerated in LPI.

 

 

But maybe I fucked my brain up with the lysine causing extra ammonia.

[Turnbuckle]

I thought maybe the lysine actually activated the epstein barr virus...

 

 

Possibly. See this paper--

 

The results show that L-lysine amino acid excess is characterized by significant increased of HIV-1 RNA copies in enriched peripheral blood mononuclear cells plasma samples of HIV-infected patients. There was evidence for an association between L-lysine supplementation and HIV-1 RNA replication and the level changes of this host essential nutritional element play a key role in the synthesis of the virus proteins and in transcription initiation of the retrovirus life cycle. High intake of L-lysine amino acid may increase the risk of high viral load...

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5890499/

 

 

[Sicko]

This is an update, I don't know what happened, but I'm still not back to myself, feeling similar things to what I reported before, and I am constantly uncomfortable. 

 

Thanks Turnbuckle for the reference, that is interesting.

[Turnbuckle]

Dr. Jill Carnahan recommends a treatment for EBV that contains a couple of items in addition to lysine and olive leaf--

 

 

Monolauren: 1800 mg twice daily

Olive Leaf: 1000-1500 mg twice daily

L-Lysine: 1000-1500 mg twice daily

Cat’s Claw tincture: 30-60 drops twice daily

https://www.jillcarn...ein-barr-virus/

 

 

 It's possible that what you are experiencing is the enhanced apoptosis of an expanded T-cell population--

In conclusion, the massive expansion of IM T cells is not caused by EBV infection of these cells but merely represents an intense immune reaction. Through altered expression of Bcl-2/Bax and Fas/FasL, the activated T cells are subject to enhanced apoptosis while residing within the lymphoid tissue

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC1905650/

 

 

The first supplement Dr. Carnahan mentions downregulates T-cell activity--

Glycerol Monolaurate (GML) inhibits human T cell signaling and function by disrupting lipid dynamics

several studies have suggested that GML suppresses inflammatory processes, indicating that GML may also have an immunomodulatory role. 

https://www.nature.c...icles/srep30225

 

 

As for cat's claw, it is successfully used by some to treat epstein barr, if you believe comments on Amazon.

 

 

Edited by Turnbuckle, 03 May 2020 - 09:13 AM.

[Sicko]

Hey thanks Turnbuckle for those articles! I was taking Monolauren and Cat's Claw too a while ago at the same time as the lysine and olive leaf I believe. I didn't know Monolauren inhibited T cell activity, which is good.

 

Just writing an update because it's been 17 months since I started feeling worse, and in just the last day I have felt a familiar feeling of how I used to feel before all this. Like I'm actually able to relax my mind a bit, instead of being constantly tense, uncomfortable, while not being able to think, but my thoughts go to bad dark places, always feeling out of control, and not trusting my thoughts or feelings. Maybe some low-level immune-induced inflammation-based psychosis. On the outside I didn't seem too much different I don't think, I just tried to keep it on the inside, but it's been bad. I'm not all the way there and I hope the slightly more relaxed feeling lasts and keeps getting better, but it's absolutely insane how long whatever reaction I had has been. You really can't fuck around with anything, even if those things have a good track record for other people in certain circumstances. But I think I was focusing on the wrong thing with the Bartonella and Epstein Barr. I think my main problem is autoimmune, so I need to be very careful about activating my immune system more or the wrong way.

 

I've been doing the Andy Cutler chelation protocol, and every time I'm on a round of that I feel a bit better. And after the initial bad feeling of getting off the round fades, I think I tend to settle back into a bit of a better place than before. So maybe heavy metals is a problem for me, but I was also thinking it was interesting that I've heard the chelator DMSA can suppress the immune system, so maybe I feel a bit better by suppressing my immune system some too. I'm also taking supplements that I know I can handle right now. I also tried near-infrared light therapy (LLLT) by getting the 810 nm "Vielight" that goes up the nose. It was expensive but I've been trying things that I had held back on before because they were scary, too much of a commitment, or too expensive before. I've also been trying the Keto diet for my brain, but I'm not doing the best at that right now as one of my main staples is sunflower butter and unsweetened chocolate, probably too many carbs. I've also tried fasting for 3 days once, and in some ways felt pretty good while doing that, but it was tough. I've also been more cognizant of my stress levels, and trying not to sabotage myself.

 

Also, related to me thinking about possibly feeling better taking DMSA which may suppress my immune system, I recently thought that since they give steroids to suppress the immune system, maybe if I would have taken steroids shortly after this happened, it might have nipped it in the bud. I asked my endocrinologist if they prescribe steroids for what I'm diagnosed with, Hashimoto's, and they said they don't. I recently bought some "Thunder God" root extract (Tripterygium wilfordii) because I read it can suppress the immune system, but I might not try it if I continue to feel a bit better now. 

 

So that's the update. Interesting, in the worst way!!!!

 

 

 

 

Edited by Sicko, 28 March 2021 - 01:59 AM.

[Ames]

https://pubmed.ncbi....ih.gov/8587651/

 

L-lysine is a barbiturate-like anticonvulsant and modulator of the benzodiazepine receptor

 

 

I like Lysine and take it to fight colds as needed, but my experience with it is that some of its initial effects lose their potency with time. For example, when I first took lysine it would reliably put me to sleep. Now it doesn't. My nephew used to take it for a persistent viral infection. His Father gave him too much Lysine and now it doesn't work well for that purpose. I find it still subtly helps with colds. But reduced results with repeated supplementation, in general, could indicate a measure of reduced sensitivity to it through some mechanism. A rational hypothesis is that part of that potential mechanism could be reduced receptor sensitivity. See above. If so, that may contribute to your malaise. 

Edited by Ames, 29 March 2021 - 03:33 AM.