18 replies to this topic

[Mind]

Is it time to wax philosophical about where we are headed?

 

The LongeCity forum is full of topics and posts about how a particular supplement, treatment, or drug “made you feel”.

 

The general consensus is that most people want to feel young again. They want to feel energetic. They want to think clearly. They want better aerobic fitness or bigger muscles. They want to be happy. Etc...

 

I want to reverse my aging. I would like to get my youthful body and brain back. I want to cure my age-associated ailments.

 

However, I am not under any delusion that I will necessarily be “super happy and productive” all the time when I am biologically young again.

 

If I think objectively about when I was in my 20s. I was more fit and I could think more clearly, but I had similar emotions. Similar ups-and-downs in life. Some days I was tired. Some days I was sad. Some days I couldn't think clearly.

 

Don't get me wrong, when I am young again, it will be a great thing, however, I wonder what will happen next.

 

I am fine with a typical human life...with the pace of an earth day...the rhythm of nature....or so I think.

 

Once I am at the pinnacle of my biological human fitness, I suspect I will want “more”. I will want “better”. I am just like most humans. I have things that I enjoy doing and if I could enhance myself above human capability in order to do more of the things I like, I probably would.

 

This is where the discussion takes-off into sci-fi transhumanist-type or virutal reality scenarios, but I don't want to exactly go there.

 

I want to discuss what it means to not have limits. Currently our lives are limited by the laws of nature and biology. Once we break through those limits will there be other limits (perhaps available energy). Will we be satisfied at any point, achieving some sort-of balance between nature and each other? Or will we continue “improving”, becoming ever more super happy, productive, and expanding until we literally consume the entire universe?

 

[Oakman]

"I want to discuss what it means to not have limits. Currently our lives are limited by the laws of nature and biology. Once we break through those limits will there be other limits (perhaps available energy). Will we be satisfied at any point, achieving some sort-of balance between nature and each other? Or will we continue “improving”, becoming ever more super happy, productive, and expanding until we literally consume the entire universe?"

------------

 

I want to discuss what it means to not have limits. That covers a lot of territory. Initially, my mind gravitates to the scenario in 'Limitness' with 'NZT'. Certainly there are more expansive possibilities that that, but I thought that fantasy truly educational, a vision of life without limits (supposedly, but no). It made me want to create my own NZT clone! However, like an overboosted car, there's ultimately a problem. I'd call NZT a limited-lifetime limitlessness, but aspirational at least.

 

Currently our lives are limited by the laws of nature and biology. Once we break through those limits will there be other limits (perhaps available energy). Unless you are going universe hopping, discussion of this is would seem premature  We've got a long...loooong way to go to even approach being able to consider confronting "the laws of nature and biology". Create matter from nothing, go faster than the speed of light, visit a black hole, land on a neutron star, exist as a biological entity into eternity? Not likely short of moving up to a 'creator level' discussion. The 'How would I design a universe' discussion. I don't think that where anyone or anything is headed.

 

Or will we continue “improving”, becoming ever more super happy, productive, and expanding until we literally consume the entire universe?  Lots of (icy) cold water on that idea. Light / dark, hot / cold, happy / sad, productive / barren, expanding / contracting. All meaning exists in contrasting pairs. Some ultimate euphoric state of productive expansion, existing alone, would become meaningless without contrast. So we are doomed (destined) to have failure, death, plus disease and contraction as a species in order to progress, if that is even a thing possible. 'Still exist' in any form over time would seem more than sufficient, even as we certainly suffer and possibly exceed our traditional bounds in limited ways.

--

One thing that is becoming more and more obvious to me as I have been around for a while, is that if there is an over-riding human flaw, it is that, each newly created organism has to start anew with no knowledge and a lot of inherited instinctual bias. There is some societal movement (progress?) thanks to there being a history to refer to when growing, but that doesn't keep the majority still doing the same destructive acts, holding the same destructive thoughts, as every previous generation...and on into the past. We may call ourselves civilized, but it's not by much and never has been.

--

I want to reverse my aging. I would like to get my youthful body and brain back. I want to cure my age-associated ailments. I don't think that's going to happen. There is the old saying, "What's done is done".  Future generations may be able to slow or stop aging, rejuvenate tissues, etc., but for most of us living now... we will not be able to recover ... mostly. If there's a ticking time bomb in a building, it's much simpler, more effective, and therefore more likely to happen... to defuse the bomb, rather than trying to put the building back together from the pieces after it blows up. Diagnosis > prevention > rejuvenation - not disease > treatment > rehabilitation, will be the goto choice of future generations.

 

Ah...waxing philosophic...

[StevesPetMacaque]

I am going to respond in a slightly different direction as suggested by the title of the post, rather than directly to the question you posed at the end. You're a mod, so you can delete the response if it's too far off-topic 

 

Most pharmaceuticals and recreational drugs are either agonists or antagonists, with some acting as allosteric modulators or inverse agonists, but still - the basic idea is they stick to receptors and cause an effect. This direct stimulation causes the most pronounced subjective effects - "This made me feel great!" However, that's roughly equivalent, in the sense of dynamical systems, to applying a constant force to a physical object - the body simply adjusts to a new equilibrium state. You don't really generate qualitatively new behaviors by simply hitting a system with a steady force. Drink coffee every day, and it stops being much of a pick-me-up. Take valium every day, and your dose will have to keep increasing. Even when these drugs "really work" to produce long-lasting benefits, it's via additional mechanisms. With, for example, SSRI's, they seem to "kick-in" right around the time when they downregulate 5HT2C receptors.

 

That brings me to the second point - true healing requires a change in how the body meets challenges. Again, thinking of the body as a dynamical system, this means changing its response function to external forces, rather than simply applying an external force. Neurochemically, that roughly corresponds to changing receptor sensitivity, whether up- or downregulation. Increasing the sensitivity of the response allows the system to respond to smaller or more subtle inputs or to respond in new ways to old inputs. For me, NSI-189 had this kind of effect. I was in a state of paralysis due to emotional overload. Without deadening or altering my emotions like an SSRI might have, it instead enabled me to act in spite of the pain I was feeling. Over time, this freedom to do more, rather than necessarily feel better at any given moment, had a profound, cumulative effect on my well-being, both subjective and objective.

 

Lastly, coming back to the question you posed - beyond even "receptor sensitivity" or other internal biological metrics, what matters most is the output of the human body/mind system. What ultimately counts is not how we feel, but what we do. Feelings can certainly play a role in that, but I'd rather have a depressed person in society than one who takes an experimental drug that turns him into the Joker, as an extreme example. So the question is, what really limits us? I don't think the most severe limit in most humans' lives is their biology at this point. Rather, people are not taught the skills to self-regulate, to innovate, to create, to live freely under the guidance of their own well-developed consciences.

 

I fear that life extension technology, once injected into our current social milieu, will simply turn people into more efficient consumers, rather than expanding the horizons of the individual human's experience.

[Mind]

 

 

I fear that life extension technology, once injected into our current social milieu, will simply turn people into more efficient consumers, rather than expanding the horizons of the individual human's experience.

 

This is my fear as well. If age-related diseases can be cheaply and quickly cured, most people will drink more, smoke more, eat more, get stoned more....etc. Like Oakman mentioned, it seems people will get ever more "out-of-balance" with their environment, leading to boom/bust cycles.

 

However, I can't argue that anything should be withheld from people (more sugar, food, drugs, porn, etc..) unless and until it can be proven that they are directly and obviously harming other individuals.

[sthira]

I hesitate to post on this because it’ll seem negative and who wants that. But what the hell, might as well contribute, even if it’s negative.

I’ve been contributing to this site since 2008, and in that time nothing has progressed toward actionability. Name something you can do now to slow, stop, or reverse your aging. One thing? We have calorie restriction (which may or may not do anything). How about take fisetin or D+Q? Is that what we have? Nope... unproven, proceed at your own risk. May we piddle around with who knows what dosage and purity of rapamycin? Will that work? Shrug. Who knows. Stay tuned! Or metformin lol...I’m just now reading that researchers still don’t know if aspirin is good or not. Try resveratrol, c’mon, please, again with the unregulated and expensive knotweed extracts, and hope for the best with a Horvath test, or because David Sinclair says that’s what he does? Resveratrol in yogurt... Sounds very 2008 to me.

Reading on this site is like reading the failures of biotech, the failures of self-experimenters, reading the mixed up but hopeful words of the rest of us huddled here in the dark seeking these far reaching dreams of life extension.

What I see happening — both at this site, other sites similar to here, in the general society, and in published yeast, rodent, primate, human biotech itself — seems like a case of our communication tech far, far exceeding the science. We’re good at talking about what we think will stymie aging — but proof? Nothing is here. Check back in in five years, maybe 2030, 2040, 2045....

Am I too negative? ☹️

Our ability to communicate, such as it is, through fora or reddit or indie sites — our advancing web communication technology — has grown by leaps and bounds. We easily connect. But with regard to the relevant topic itself — human lifespan extension — what has progressed?

Make healthy lifestyle choices. This is what we’re told. Thanks. We knew this decades ago.

Edited by sthira, 10 December 2019 - 08:12 PM.

[pamojja]

Am I too negative? ☹️

 

Its all in the perspective. I too joined here about the same time as you. But with a 80% stenosis at my abdominal aorta, being able to walk only 300-400 at a stretch, and my internist predicting me a 60% 5-year survival probability due to my PAD - fast forward via a detour of additional COPD, T2D, CFS and stroke diagnosis (which I didn't even mentioned occuring). - Now I'm 2 years in complete remission, but overall still alive!

 

If that isn't positive - at least from my perspective - I don't know what.
 

 

I want to discuss what it means to not have limits. Currently our lives are limited by the laws of nature and biology. Once we break through those limits will there be other limits (perhaps available energy). Will we be satisfied at any point, achieving some sort-of balance between nature and each other? Or will we continue “improving”, becoming ever more super happy, productive, and expanding until we literally consume the entire universe?

 

I've been very fortunate of having a great interest in the workings of the human mind in my youth. Which brought me to many places, but also to heavy-duty meditation in a Burmese forest meditation monastery. Bliss and ecstatic limitless states of mind isn't that hard to train in. It just takes some dedictation in excercising in seclusion. Beyond anything I ever was able to experience through hallucinogenics (never looked back since meditating).

 

Though it is possible to stay at such heights for some time (days, weeks), the problem is the nature of this body and mind, which is always flux. And with such a sharpened mind, where even a tiny thought can cause monster-ripples, this essential flux in everything - body and mind, even after very refined mental states - is really what isn't peaceful and digusting. It can't but ultimately lead to disenchantment.

 

That was the time I realized I'm not yet ready to go further that path of disentanglement. And decided to go back into the bustle of the west to gain more momentum first. Which it did. More than ever contentment is replacing seaking out of 'feeling great'. And even if I do, like on occasional meditation retreats, it now only adds to more dispassion.

 

Don't understand my wrong, I can be very passionate. Emotions are flowing. It's just that it doesn't perpetuates itself into more than it is. Flux in everything. I'm aware that's not what most are seeking in the approach of meditation, but something more stable like an eternal soul. However, its were it is heading too: meditative states of limitless bliss can lead to dispassion - even while being passionate - and contentment. With nothing realy but flux.

[Oakman]

sthria, you do sound negative, and reading what you say I'm at a loss to refute most any of it.  Where are all the people regaining their youth, reinvigorating their skin, heart, brain, muscles and/or living to the limits? Dr. Sinclair doesn't sell anything, barely takes anything into his body, longevity wise... and shouldn't he have great visibility into "the truth"? But he has only roadmaps of longevity possibilities. Should be not want people with remarkable, if not dramatic, biological turn-arounds? They are not there. But that's where we are today.

 

However, conversely, there a lot of "good feeling" news out there. Virtually every field of longevity science is trying everything they can get funding for. Most important - research process is greatly improving. If there's anything I've learned about goals, it's that perseverance is vital. Fail, fail, and fail again, but just keep trying. That's what's happening now. Perhaps you could say we are at or near the genesis point of longevity improvements, but don't appreciate it!  Never before have we had tools, molecules, and process to work with like right now.

 

You often don't see the next miracle coming until - bam! You look back and say, "Damn!!

 

I'm old enough to have gone through genesis periods. Things like interstate highways, digital computers, cellphones, smartphones, modems, LEDs, heck(!) even that there is a universe outside our galaxy!! It's highly likely quantum computing will solve complex problems like never before. Life itself is a quantum state and may be the key to another genesis moment. 

 

One reason to want to live into the future is to see all this unfold   What could be more fun than that!  Be happy... no... be ecstatic!

 

 

 

 

[sthira]

...meditation in a Burmese forest meditation monastery....

Thanks, ya, I’d like something like this. To be lost in forest monastery in Burma for an extended timespan experiencing: “...Bliss and ecstatic limitless states of mind through meditation, isolation, in a place like a Burmese monastery....” I need this. I need something better.

...with such a sharpened mind, where even a tiny thought can cause monster-ripples, this essential flux in everything - body and mind, even after very refined mental states - is really what isn't peaceful and digusting. It can't but ultimately lead to disenchantment. .

Not sure I’m following you there, bro. Why did you leave the peaceful forest monastery?

...I realized I'm not yet ready to go further that path of disentanglement. And decided to go back into the bustle of the west to gain more momentum first. Which it did. More than ever contentment is replacing seaking out of 'feeling great'. And even if I do, like on occasional meditation retreats, it now only adds to more dispassion.... .

You sound interesting af. Can’t say I understand what you’re saying, though. If you feel like it, maybe clarify why you left the forest monastery to rejoin the rat race.

I’ve one leg outta here currently. One foot out the door of this country...

The nearest to bliss I’ve approached is through psilocybin mushrooms; but you’re right, we can’t stay in that heightened state.

But if I could — if there was a god — I’d stay in that exalted mushroom state of — Beyond — that psychedelics offer. It’s a place of peace and calm and goodness, love, sweetness and beauty. We need more of that in life. I do, anyway.

Its all in the perspective. I too joined here about the same time as you. But with a 80% stenosis at my abdominal aorta, being able to walk only 300-400 at a stretch, and my internist predicting me a 60% 5-year survival probability due to my PAD - fast forward via a detour of additional COPD, T2D, CFS and stroke diagnosis (which I didn't even mentioned occuring). - Now I'm 2 years in complete remission, but overall still alive!

If that isn't positive - at least from my perspective - I don't know what..

I think it’s great you’ve found effective ways to heal yourself. But does what you list above have anything to do with anti-aging technology or longevity science?

What brought me to this site back in 2008 was an injury that effectively ended my career. A career for which I’d trained since I was 7 years old. A stupid knee injury that wouldn’t heal. A common injury, one that plagues thousands of athletes, non-athletes, and millions of aging folks. Science can’t fix it, we’re told. Well, I’ve been following the alleged progress of tissue regeneration for a very long time. “They” ‘vr been excitedly proclaiming that tendon, cartilage, ligament regeneration is imminent; “they” have been promising shit for literally more than a decade now.

So they’ve lied, basically. That’s mostly why I’m pissy and angry at regenerative medicine: loads of shattered hope, phony promises, expensive treatments that ultimately do nothing.

I’m currently a patient in a clinical trial offered by Unity Biotech — one of the outfits everyone in the anti-aging community is so excited about — but honestly, as a trial patient for their injected substance, I’ve probably been given placebo because their injected substance isn’t worth a damn as far as healing or regeneration is concerned.

I just think the science should be farther along than it is, and I’m weary of excuses. So I’d rather just disappear into a Burmese forest monastery until someone gets a clue.

Edited by sthira, 11 December 2019 - 01:58 AM.

[sthira]

sthria, you do sound negative, and reading what you say I'm at a loss to refute most any of it. Where are all the people regaining their youth, reinvigorating their skin, heart, brain, muscles and/or living to the limits? Dr. Sinclair doesn't sell anything, barely takes anything into his body, longevity wise... and shouldn't he have great visibility into "the truth"? But he has only roadmaps of longevity possibilities. Should be not want people with remarkable, if not dramatic, biological turn-arounds? They are not there. But that's where we are today.

Ya, thanks. “And that’s where we are today...” Why? Why such slow, lackluster progress? They don’t have enough money, they keep wailing. But I think it’s more than lack of funds. I’m not gonna say these scientists are stupid, but often I wonder. I mean, we all get that biology is hard and chemical interactions within the body occur by the trillions — every second — so it’s probably a job for AI, and as you say, quantum computing.

Perhaps you could say we are at or near the genesis point of longevity improvements, but don't appreciate it! Never before have we had tools, molecules, and process to work with like right now.

You often don't see the next miracle coming until - bam! You look back and say, "Damn!!

Thanks for your optimism, I truly honestly sincerely wished I shared it, I really really do. But all I see ahead is more of the same slow trickling drip drop ahead. Sure, there’ll be progress, but wtf... Maybe I’m just a spoiled brat. I do see that more “anti-aging” companies are forming and dissolving and reforming. And there’s certainly more attention paid now to the field. It’s just very very slow, and I don’t really understand why it’s all so slow. I mean, I know the arguments: biology is complex and hard; funding is limited; FDA hooliganism, blah blah blah, heard the same thing a decade ago.

Meanwhile, eat less food and work your body...blah blah blah

Edited by sthira, 11 December 2019 - 01:23 AM.

[pamojja]

Not sure I’m following you there, bro. Why did you leave the peaceful forest monastery?


You sound interesting af. Can’t say I understand what you’re saying, though. If you feel like it, maybe clarify why you left the forest monastery to rejoin the rat race.

 
The place was perfect for practice. I certainly don't regret, and am so grateful for every day there. So much, despite having already travelled half the globe, leaving Burma I became so sentimental, I just had to bow down before entering the aircraft and kiss its tar for a last goodby. However, Burmese laymen, which neccessarily visit the monastery for providing food, are deeply trenched in tradition and beliefs. I soon realized that as a laymen practicing there I would be more undisturbed than as ordained monk, not having to get involved in rituals and festivities. It shouldn't be that way.
 
One of Burmese beliefs is: provided food to the oldest monks would give most merit, then down the rank, next nuns, then male foreighners (which they have great respect for: why would anyone living in the west - for them paradise aspired to be reborn next - would ever come to live in such a misserable place?), next female foreighners, then oldest Burmese laymen, females, all ending with youngest Burmese girls last in line. I just couldn't bear to see with every meal the youngest girls going back with meals too little, while the oldest monks had to get that much that they would have been able to feed whole families. The Abbot was powerless against such terrible effects of Burmese merit-making believes. And coming always as the last behind also didn't help. They always kept extras for me, the girls before me didn't get. And sometimes just had to stop practicing, go home to gain some weight again. Just as an example. The military junta at that time is an other.

However, why I finally left was because I found myself not ready yet. To many abysses to face again and again to reach to the bottom of the mind. A kind of a struggle between two forces, basically one wanting to live to the fullest - the other to let go completely. After 2 year watching these 2 forces rallying as an impartial witness, I thought immersion for some time in the 'rat race' again, would give the later an advantage for a more easily coming final decision.
 
Back at home tryed focusing-therapy, for being able to put into speech what I leant as psychonaut in silence. Though really helpful in working with clients, never reached such depths of my mind that way again. Having practiced so much, it really doesn't matters that much where anymore. With some provisions, I could just do it at home. Or any western monastery not that much entrenched in Asian culture. And doing it in the midst of the rat race is a very valid practice too. Though less deep, it does flex the mental mucles just as well.
 
However, for a starter Asia was best in my case.
 

I think it’s great you’ve found effective ways to heal yourself. But does what you list above have anything to do with anti-aging technology or longevity science?

What brought me to this site back in 2008 was an injury that effectively ended my career. A career for which I’d trained since I was 7 years old. A stupid knee injury that wouldn’t heal. A common injury, one that plagues thousands of athletes, non-athletes, and millions of aging folks. Science can’t fix it, we’re told. Well, I’ve been following the alleged progress of tissue regeneration for a very long time. “They” ‘vr been excitedly proclaiming that tendon, cartilage, ligament regeneration is imminent; “they” have been promising shit for literally more than a decade now.

 
Sorry to hear of your disappointing experience. With my chronic disease and questioning the invasive interventions pushed on me, I very fast realized there is absolutely nothing to expect from conventional medicine, now or in the future, other than lab-testing. And I completely dedicated my energy into diet, lifestyle and too many supplements, than I ever wanted to. But it works for me and my chronic diseases, despite being initially told there is nothing that could be done.

So not that much anti-aging 'technology' or longevity 'science', in which due to all the commercial ramification I have absolutely no trust in - but survival. To complete what I*ve started. One rewarding thing in training of expansion of the mind is, when one realizes one's mind and body isn't separated from other bodies and minds, really. I couldn't imagine a limitlessness more beautiful.
 
 

Edited by pamojja, 11 December 2019 - 02:47 AM.

[sthira]

Could you go back to the monastery, bring your own money and pay for your own food, and pay for the food of these low-ranking girls?

Sounds as if at the monastery you were practicing CR. But the part of CR that often goes overlooked is the ON part — CR with Optimal Nutrition. CRON. The thing about optimal nutrition, though, is we’re still relying on RDA science, which is good, but who know how good, and scientists and media will continue battling ad infinitum over what’s optimal macro- and micro-nutrients, and I don’t see any end in sight for these endless dietary battles. Anyway, maybe you can practice CR at a Burmese monastery but not optimal nutrition. What’s the daily diet there?

Also, I share your low opinion of conventional medicine. It works extremely well for bodies torn up in accidents. But for common, chronic diseases, injuries, ailments, and aging degeneration — pfftt — good luck, all ye seekers. I’m extremely disappointed in Orthopedics, for example, and to me it just seems like big business that’s stubborn and probably often actively hostile to any significant advances.

Edited by sthira, 11 December 2019 - 03:08 AM.

[pamojja]

There is no set diet. Traditionally monks in the early morning set out (from wherever they live; could also be in a cave) for almsround to a village, whereby they are not allowed to ask for food in any way, but only take what is freely given. And the strict in the rules (which the Abbot of our monastery was), not take any money. So sometimes just a thin rice-soup or nothing, sometimes a royal buffet. Which has to be eaten before noon, and nothing than donated medicine kept for the next day.

 

In large monasteris, like the one I've been spread out accross a large area of forest with small wooden huts for meditators, the laypersons come to the monastery in the early morning for cooking the 2 meals: breakfast and lunch. With ingredients bought or donated. For example donating $200,- would provide the 2 meals for 1 day to the whole monastery (between 100 and 400 meditators in the rainy season). The Abbot allowed only vegetarian, and that was what was served. A few monks still walked each morning the about 5 miles to the next village for almsround, and didn't eat the in the monastery prepared food.
 

Actually the diet itself was a very rich traditional diet, with many things I didn't knew, like many sea-weeds. But for the very last in line only a handful of rice and thin dal was all what was left sometimes. The circumstance that most concentrate on sitting, and not that much walking meditation, had the unwanted effect in me, that my usual setpoint in weight of 58kg for the first and only time in my life increased 14 kgs! So anything else than CR.

 

When by being so busy with meditation I left out meals, the Abbot insisted on me to come at least for 1 meal a day. One reason of course, if not somehow monitored, meditators could completely loose any ground under their feet. Without any dietary guidelines other then the monks rules, some older monks do get very fat and diabetes.

 

Some Burmese laypeople who can afford simply do additionally buy provisions. But to organize it really meaningful, so that the needy would get benefits from specific donations, one would have to know the situation verry well and learn to speak Burmese. To not tunnel the funds again where they aren't that needed. Monasteries and meditation centers come in all variations, so in some one could pay for the food.

 

Most monasteries in Burma aren't that large, with so many of laypersons practicing, and such problems of inequality wouldn't arise. An other small monastery I was in Sri Lanka, the only resident monk went on almsround in the morning, and shared what he've got with the lay-meditators (in this case and at times all westerners). In such a setting one of course could prepare one's own meals.

 

 

In any case, inequality in Burmese society still would be appailling. Most are bitter poor, and in so many families people needlessly die. For example with something as simple as an appendixitis, one had 2 choices: pay for a proper surgery costing $400,-, or a discounted very risky at 100,-. Even if in such a case all of the enlarged familly would put together the money, too often still not enough for the risky choice. Monks are abused by the millitary for making merit (some of them really believe they're in power because of past merit), but if a monk dares to refuse their donation, tortured to death.

Edited by pamojja, 11 December 2019 - 12:09 PM.

[Mind]

 

 

What brought me to this site back in 2008 was an injury that effectively ended my career. A career for which I’d trained since I was 7 years old. A stupid knee injury that wouldn’t heal. A common injury, one that plagues thousands of athletes, non-athletes, and millions of aging folks. Science can’t fix it, we’re told. Well, I’ve been following the alleged progress of tissue regeneration for a very long time. “They” ‘vr been excitedly proclaiming that tendon, cartilage, ligament regeneration is imminent; “they” have been promising shit for literally more than a decade now.

 

Here is some recent dramatic success in repairing joints: https://www.longecit...e-2#entry880184

[sthira]

Here is some recent dramatic success in repairing joints: https://www.longecit...e-2#entry880184

Thanks loads for this, Mind, this made me feel great! It’s fascinating work that I hadn’t encountered; so I sent a note to Dr. Di Nicola’s West Sussex Hospital address (if you have a better way to contact him or his researchers would you please PM me?)

Also, there was a fleeting message by the interviewer about a site possibly offering this therapy in Arizona. Hate to nag, but I can’t locate that information on my own, so if you’ve any more information on this I’ll give you a big ole virtual hug, smile, and handshake

Edited by sthira, 12 December 2019 - 02:40 PM.

[sthira]

...In large monasteris, like the one I've been...

Thank you for sharing your experience, Pamojja. I researched Burmese Forest Monasteries, and it looks like many offer 10-day stays. Obviously you lived there much longer: did your monastery provide basic housing, and what was this like (I don’t mean to turn your descriptions into travel advice...). You mentioned you may meditate anywhere now, but I’m curious if plan to return the monastery?

[pamojja]

Maybe one day. My remission is still too fresh, to have complete confidence. And it would be simply impossible to carry all the supplements I still think I need. If you didn't already, would recommend to get some experience with some 10-day retreats at home first. For most that is already too much for a whole life..

 

Found the website of the place I've been in 1999-01: https://www.paaukforestmonastery.org/ The first picture shows the upper monastery, which at my time there still was partially a construction site. I stayed at the original lower Pha-Auk Tawya monastery, about 1 mile toward the horizon on the right of that picture. A teak-wood hut about 4x4 meters on stints, with common bathroom and showers. Female quaters not far away in concrete buildings I never saw from inside. A friend not that long ago went there and told about shared accomodations. However, that depends on the seriousness of a meditator. Most anyway leave already after a few weeks. The newer wooden huts in the upper monastery are larger with attached bath.

 

At my time there were 1 year meditation visas available for $100. However, the Burmese embassy never replyed my application including invitation letter from Burma. Had to get a entry-visa during a week in Bangkok first.

 

Note: dangerous plasmodium falciparum malaria is there. I already had it 4 times in Africa, 3 times the vivax kind in India. And luckily didn't get any again after 1998 or there.

 

 

 

Edited by pamojja, 12 December 2019 - 05:30 PM.

[Mind]

I hesitate to post on this because it’ll seem negative and who wants that. But what the hell, might as well contribute, even if it’s negative.

I’ve been contributing to this site since 2008, and in that time nothing has progressed toward actionability. Name something you can do now to slow, stop, or reverse your aging. One thing? We have calorie restriction (which may or may not do anything). How about take fisetin or D+Q? Is that what we have? Nope... unproven, proceed at your own risk. May we piddle around with who knows what dosage and purity of rapamycin? Will that work? Shrug. Who knows. Stay tuned! Or metformin lol...I’m just now reading that researchers still don’t know if aspirin is good or not. Try resveratrol, c’mon, please, again with the unregulated and expensive knotweed extracts, and hope for the best with a Horvath test, or because David Sinclair says that’s what he does? Resveratrol in yogurt... Sounds very 2008 to me.

Reading on this site is like reading the failures of biotech, the failures of self-experimenters, reading the mixed up but hopeful words of the rest of us huddled here in the dark seeking these far reaching dreams of life extension.

What I see happening — both at this site, other sites similar to here, in the general society, and in published yeast, rodent, primate, human biotech itself — seems like a case of our communication tech far, far exceeding the science. We’re good at talking about what we think will stymie aging — but proof? Nothing is here. Check back in in five years, maybe 2030, 2040, 2045....

Am I too negative? ☹️

Our ability to communicate, such as it is, through fora or reddit or indie sites — our advancing web communication technology — has grown by leaps and bounds. We easily connect. But with regard to the relevant topic itself — human lifespan extension — what has progressed?

Make healthy lifestyle choices. This is what we’re told. Thanks. We knew this decades ago.

 

Thanks for bringing a healthy dose of reality to the conversation. It is usually the role that I play in the forum. Looking at the initial post in retrospect it does read like "fait acompli" for biological age reversal, when that is not yet the case.

 

However, we are now at the point where results should be coming in. The pioneering biohackers are now getting into their 70s and 80s and we should know with more certainty whether or not precise supplementation is slowing aging. Also, the recent therapies that have produced incredible results in mice can be more easily adopted by biohackers. With better measures of aging we should also know relatively quickly whther or not these therapies are working.

 

In any case, I guess I am optimistic enough to speculate what people will do after they reach the peak of their genetic fitness.

[sthira]

...a healthy dose of reality...

If you’ve been following this movement for a bit —as bystander uninvolved in the science, which is almost everyone — skepticism about progress is reasonable. I mean, maybe insiders know stuff they ain’t telling, all conspiratorially-like. I doubt it. Do you wonder what is CALICO up to, remember them, the world’s richest corporation who said they want to end death ten-years ago? Cynthia Kenyon?

Bad segue here, but are you settled with the argument anti-aging advocates make that initial working treatments won’t be for the very rich? It’ll be for everyone, they say, because keeping people healthier for longer will save the most money. Sickness is expensive, they argue.

But look around: the wealthy get the best of everything in the world as it is now — freedom with their jets and off to their secluded beach islands, maybe to attempt rewiring genetic programming. In ease and comfort, why won’t the rich be first to “turn back the epigenetic clock”? We ask here what compounds did David Sinclair say on YouTube that he gives his father? Resveratrol, metformin, NAD... and... his dad is in his 80s and he just climbed Mt. Kilimanjaro.

And it seems reasonable to watch celebs and influencers like actors and actresses, music icons, and the athletes and nutrition experts, maybe the exercise artists shall lead us into youth. Influencers make it or break it by looking the part — they've livelihoods.

Is it meaningful to watch investors? Biotech stocks? Companies spend billions on drugs. I mean look at male pattern baldness for anti-aging guidance; researchers, media and companies have been talking hairloss cures since ...2010...2000...1990...1980zzz... And aging skin cures — Botox and facelifts since, when, forever — dermatology breakthroughs daily. Orthopedics, oh gaw, I’m so ignorant.

Canadians legalized MJ a year ago, and maybe good ole weed will have unimagined benefits. Aren’t you hopeful about low-dose psychedelics, too? Maybe they’ll study DHT or Psilocybe azurescens for anti-aging effects on humans?

But to just keep studying hunger-mimetics like polyphenols and vitamin B3 derivatives and metformin just seems kinda slow. Eat less, move more. Donate to SENS... spinoff companies seem exciting... and did you do your year-end tax write off thing again?

Senescence cell clearing — ten years from now? Boomers are taking 7g per week of rapamycin, and so...? Liz Parish, probably dozens of others are doing god knows what about their genetics, so that’s something to be hopeful about, right.

Edited by sthira, 15 December 2019 - 05:35 AM.

[bosharpe]

Thanks for bringing a healthy dose of reality to the conversation.

 

I think it's vital, else we're going to float off into space, and in all likelihood very disappointed. It's easy to get swept up in the hype. I cannot imagine anything that will make a significant difference being available to someone like me in the next ten years.