6 replies to this topic

[Hip]

Curcumin is Amazingly Soluble in DMSO

 

I did an experiment at home, and found I was able to dissolve 400 mg of curcumin in each 1 ml of DMSO (dimethyl sulfoxide).

 

This is quite amazing, because if you look at scientific data on curcumin's solubility in DMSO, typical solubility figures are 25 mg/ml. But I achieved an incredible 400 mg/ml solubility at room temperature, and I could have probably dissolved even more, but I stopped at 400 mg/ml.

 

In my test, I used 5 ml of 99.99% purity DMSO (one teaspoon), and heated to about 60ºC to help speed up the dissolving process, and found I was able to dissolve 2 grams of pure curcumin powder into this small amount of DMSO. Then I let the 5 ml solution cool down to room temperature (20°C) again, and none of the dissolved curcumin precipitated out, indicating that even at room temp, DMSO can hold at least 400 mg/ml. The solution was an orange-brown color (DMSO itself is clear).

 

 

Thus dissolving curcumin in a small amount of DMSO (eg 400 mg of curcumin in 1 ml of DMSO) and then taking this orally might increase its bioavailability. Normally the oral bioavailability of curcumin is very low: 0.9% is absorbed in the gut in rats. Ref: 1

 

 

Not sure why I was able to dissolve so much curcumin into my DMSO, when scientific data indicates its solubility is much lower. It's possible the DMSO I used, which has a higher 99.99% purity, is able to hold more curcumin in solution than the regular DMSO of 99.9% purity that you see for sale online. 

 

It's better to use 99.99% purity DMSO when taking it orally, as this higher purity version produces less of the garlicky odor on the breath that is often found when ingesting DMSO. There are quite a few suppliers online who sell 99.99% purity DMSO for not much more than the cost of 99.9% purity. 

 

Edited by Hip, 05 January 2020 - 05:19 PM.

[pamojja]

It is such individuals like you, endless curious and experimenting, which could bring whole companies down. Like those promoting crazy expensive super-absorbable curcumin compounds, in this case

 

I don't think it's the purity of DSMO responsible for the garlicky odor. Since I gave some 99.99% to my mother, who exposed that odor. But not with me, when taking the same. The odor comes from DSMO changing in the body at about 0.5-1% to DMS. Which has a boiling-point of exactly 37 degree C and leaves through the lungs. Therefore I suspect this odor absent in myself because of my usually lower body temprature. Allegedly certain mouth-bacteria could be responsible too.

 

I would try myself, but at the moment I've got only capsules with piperine and fillers, probably not a good idea to use. Please to report back any clinical effects.

[Hip]

The issue with my curcumin in DMSO solution though is that when you add some water to it, then you see a lot of the curcumin precipitate out. Thus once water is added, it seems to reduce the ability of the DMSO to carry dissolved curcumin. 

 

The curcumin in DMSO solution is a clear orangey-brown color, but when you add water, the curcumin precipitates and the liquid becomes cloudy orange.

 

So if you take this curcumin in DMSO solution orally, when it hits any water in your stomach, much of the curcumin may be precipitated, and you are back to square one.

 

 

 

Edited by Hip, 05 January 2020 - 08:35 PM.

[pamojja]

Orally I do fine with a 50% dsmo/water solution. Don't think could tolerate 99.99%. And honestly, even if only 25mg dissolved in 1 ml, that would still give 125 mg in 5ml. More than enough for a start with higher bioavailabilty than 0.9%. Actually better start with a much lower dose, you never know in what astronomical regions you end up with the increased absorption through DSMO.

[Turnbuckle]

If you stir in a fatty acid to your DMSO solution of curcurmin before adding water, you will get a stable oil-in-water emulsion. I've tried it with oleic acid, stirring it in at 60C, and it works well.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 06 January 2020 - 12:21 PM.

[micro2000]

The solubility information found on some chemical websites are either in house measurements where are they try to solubilize a compound to commonly used concentrations or just regurgitations from other sites. It's very common to be able to solubilize compound at higher doses then what is listed especially with the addition of heat.

The problem with curcumin is what you observed: add a little bit of water to the system and it quickly precipitates out. I've made injectable curcumin at concentrations of 100mg/ml and it precipitates out and leaves a lump.

Edited by micro2000, 06 January 2020 - 03:15 PM.

[Space_Sheep]

> I don't think it's the purity of DSMO responsible for the garlicky odor. Since I gave some 99.99% to my mother, who exposed that odor. But not with me, when taking the same. The odor comes from DSMO changing in the body at about 0.5-1% to DMS. Which has a boiling-point of exactly 37 degree C and leaves through the lungs. Therefore I suspect this odor absent in myself because of my usually lower body temprature. 

 

To  respond to those points

1) I would have assumed that some DMS is an impurity in DMSO, if not because DMS is the starting material, then because DMSO can disproportionate at elevated temperature (and presumably over time), to produce DMS. But all info I've seen so far tells me that water is the main impurity (due to hygroscopicity), and dimethyl sulfone (from overoxidation during manufacture). So, we must assume it's the different rate at which people reduce DMSO to DMS, that causes the odour (and not the purity).

2) There's no phase transition happening at 37 C, if there's only a trace amount of DMS present. The DMS molecules don't all suddenly get the same notion at 37 C, and evaporate all at once, because they have different molecular forces acting on them in water.

 

> The issue with my curcumin in DMSO solution though is that when you add some water to it, then you see a lot of the curcumin precipitate out ... So if you take this curcumin in DMSO solution orally, when it hits any water in your stomach, much of the curcumin may be precipitated, and you are back to square one.

 

That's probably the main issue with these solutions. As soon as they reach the watery fluid in your stomach (and probably even earlier, through saliva dilution!), they go from 'active substance in DMSO' to 'active substance in water and some DMSO, and probably precipitated'. And solutions made with an appreciable amount of water get to this point much sooner.

 

> Orally I do fine with a 50% dsmo/water solution. Don't think could tolerate 99.99%.

 

And there's it's irritating, irritant side-effect. Swallowing DMSO solution is a double edged sword... it's smeared out over a large area of mucosa, which is thinner and absorbs it faster. But it's also more easily irritated, and as I mentioned the fluids dilute it quickly, and stop absorption.

Oral solutions basically won't have an absorption benefit in the stomach and further down, due to dilution. I'm thinking the better way might be to just spread that 1-2 ml of solution over your forearms, and let the wide spread prevent irritation.

Edited by Space_Sheep, 12 January 2020 - 07:13 PM.