3083 replies to this topic

[Dorian Grey]

I'm excited about what I've seen on Hesperidin regarding blocking the COVID virus at the ACE2 sites it must enter in order to start replicating. 

 

https://www.scienced...211383520302999

 

"However, most of above compounds were not predicted to bind with the binding interface of the Spike–ACE2 complex. The only compound that could target the binding interface between Spike and ACE2 was hesperidin"

 

Hesperidin is available as a supplement, but orange juice is a natural source.  Interestingly, fresh frozen concentrate seems to have the highest hesperidin levels.  The hesperidin is in the rind, and the commercial orange crushers used to make commercial juice squeeze the fruit so hard that more hesperidin is released.  Hesperidin will precipitate out of bottled orange juice (that white stuff that forms in the bottom of the bottle) but frozen OJ apparently provides the best dose of hesperidin.  

Edited by Dorian Grey, 25 March 2020 - 01:29 AM.

[lancebr]

So does anyone think that this treatment could actually be true?

 

 

Purine Repressing Probiotic Might Halt COVID-19, says Korean Researchers

 

https://geneonline.n...an-researchers/

 

Heat-killed L. gasseri enhanced immunity in the elderly. This probiotic increases the number of CD8(+) T cells and

reduces CD28 expression loss in CD8(+) T cells.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/25653155

 

Heat-killed L. gasseri increased natural killer cell (NK cell) activities and enhanced cell-mediated immunity in aged

host animals, thereby altering age-related immunosenescence

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/22092995

 

Live and heat-killed L. gasseri protected mice against the influenza virus and ameliorated infection symptoms, apparently

by stimulating local and systemic immune responses.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3982165/

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/22098223

 

L. gasseri exhibited anti-herpes virus (HSV-2) activity.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/25752765

[Dorian Grey]

News Flash: Mike Pence is saying the FDA has approved hydroxychloloquine for off label use.  

 

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo announced that the state has acquired 70,000 doses of hydroxychloroquine, 10,000 doses of the antibiotic zithromax and 750,000 doses of chloroquine, with trials set to start Tuesday.

 

Looks like they are going to allow chloroquine too and not just hydroxychloroquine.  Have seen reports hydroxychloroquine is now is short supply with lupus patients saying their pharmacy is back-ordered.   Looks like there is lots of chloroquine lying around though.  

 

Godspeed New York!  

[ta5]

It looks like Taurine might increase ACE2 expression. I'm unclear if this is good or bad.

 

Adv Exp Med Biol. 2017;975 Pt 2:871-886.

Effects of Taurine on ACE, ACE2 and HSP70 Expression of Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Adrenal Axis in Stress-Induced Hypertensive Rats.

Lv Q1, Yang Q1, Cui Y1, Yang J1, et al.

The experiment was to elucidate protective mechanism of taurine against stress-induced hypertension. Thirty two male Wistar rats were randomly divided into four groups. Normal control group and stress control group were intragastrically administered saline; β-alanine stress group were fed with β-alanine (200 mg/kg/day) and taurine stress group with taurine (200 mg/kg/day). The hypertensive model was established by giving rats stress for 3 weeks. Results showed that significant expression levels of angiotensin converting enzyme (ACE) in the hypothalamus, pituitary and adrenal were observed in β-alanine stress group and stress control group (P < 0.05), but significant mRNA expression levels of angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) in taurine stress group and normal control group (P < 0.05). All the groups showed no significant differences in HSP70 mRNA expression levels in hypothalamus (P > 0.05), while taurine stress group exhibited the highest HSP70 mRNA expression levels both in pituitary and in adrenal (P < 0.05). It was also found that β-alanine stress group and stress control group had significantly higher protein expression levels of ACE in hypothalamus, pituitary and adrenal (P < 0.05), but significantly lower protein expression of ACE2 compared to taurine stress group and control groups (P < 0.05). The results indicated that taurine regulated the hypothalamus pituitary adrenal (HPA) axis of the renin-angiotensin-aldosterone system (RAAS) by inhibiting ACE gene and protein expressions and promoting ACE2 and HSP70 protein expressions, thereby contributing to the prevention of stress-induced hypertension.

PMID: 28849507

 

Adv Exp Med Biol. 2015;803:613-21. 

Effects of Taurine on Blood Index of Hypothalamic Pituitary Adrenal (HPA) Axis of Stress-Induced Hypertensive Rat.

Lv Q1, Dong G, Cao S, Wu G, et al.

To elucidate the protective mechanism of taurine against stress induced hypertension, 32 male Wistar rats were randomly divided into four groups: normal control group; stress control group; β–alanine stress group and taurine stress group. Rats of the two control groups were administered physiological saline while the β–alanine treated group was administered β–alanine (200 mg/kg/day) and the taurine treated group was administered taurine (200 mg/kg/day). The hypertensive model was produced by stressing the rats for 3 weeks. Serum levels of angiotensin converting enzyme (ACE), angiotensin II (AngII), glucocorticoid hormone (CRH), adrenocorticotropic hormone (ACTH), Glucocorticoid (GC), epinephrine (EPI), norepinephrine (NA) in the β–alanine stress group was significantly higher than those of the other groups (P < 0.05). However, serum of the taurine stress group contained more angiotensin converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) than those of the other groups (P < 0.05). These data indicate that taurine regulates the hypothalamus pituitary adrenal (HPA) axis of the renin-angiotensin-aldosterone system (RAAS), thereby contributing to the prevention of stress-induced hypertension.

PMID: 25833531

[Dorian Grey]

New York hospitals are treating all coronavirus patients with high doses of IV VITAMIN C after promising results from China

 

https://www.dailymai...-VITAMIN-C.html

 

Dr Andrew Weber shared that he has been immediately giving his intensive-care patients 1,500 milligrams of intravenous vitamin C

 

The Long Island based pulmonologist and critical-care specialist with Northwell Health shared that patients are given three to four doses a day

 

Jason Molinet, a spokesman for Northwell, said that Vitamin C is being 'widely used' as a coronavirus treatment throughout the health system

Edited by Dorian Grey, 25 March 2020 - 03:28 AM.

[Dorian Grey]

FDA approves first US coronavirus treatment: Doctors across the US can now treat the sickest Americans with plasma from recovered patients

 

https://www.dailymai...-newly-ill.html

 

Plasma transfusion has been used in China to treat COVID-19 patients, but is limited by the number of recovered people to donate

 

---------------------------

 

Wonder how much this plasma might be worth?  Blood donor for hire!  Or perhaps they will just import it from China like everything else.  

Edited by Dorian Grey, 25 March 2020 - 03:46 AM.

[ta5]

Maybe Emodin was posted already. Below are old studies. A recent article on COVID-19, talks about using Toremifene plus Emodin and says: "Emodin, an anthraquinone derivative extracted from the roots of rheum tanguticum, has been reported to have various anti-virus effects. Specifically, emdoin inhibited SARS-CoV-associated 3a protein70, and blocked an interaction between the SARS-CoV spike protein and ACE2 (ref. 71). Altogether, network analyses and published experimental data suggested that combining toremifene and emdoin offered a potential therapeutic approach for 2019-nCoV/SARS-CoV-2 (Fig. 6c)."

 

Antiviral Res. 2007 May;74(2):92-101. Epub 2006 May 15.

Emodin blocks the SARS coronavirus spike protein and angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 interaction.

Ho TY1, Wu SL, Chen JC, Li CC, Hsiang CY.

Severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) is an emerging infectious disease caused by a novel coronavirus (SARS-CoV). SARS-CoV spike (S) protein, a type I membrane-bound protein, is essential for the viral attachment to the host cell receptor angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2). By screening 312 controlled Chinese medicinal herbs supervised by Committee on Chinese Medicine and Pharmacy at Taiwan, we identified that three widely used Chinese medicinal herbs of the family Polygonaceae inhibited the interaction of SARS-CoV S protein and ACE2. The IC(50) values for Radix et Rhizoma Rhei (the root tubers of Rheum officinale Baill.), Radix Polygoni multiflori (the root tubers of Polygonum multiflorum Thunb.), and Caulis Polygoni multiflori (the vines of P. multiflorum Thunb.) ranged from 1 to 10 microg/ml. Emodin, an anthraquinone compound derived from genus Rheum and Polygonum, significantly blocked the S protein and ACE2 interaction in a dose-dependent manner. It also inhibited the infectivity of S protein-pseudotyped retrovirus to Vero E6 cells. These findings suggested that emodin may be considered as a potential lead therapeutic agent in the treatment of SARS.

PMID: 16730806

 

Antiviral Res. 2011 Apr;90(1):64-9.

Emodin inhibits current through SARS-associated coronavirus 3a protein.

Schwarz S1, Wang K, Yu W, Sun B, Schwarz W.

The open-reading-frame 3a of SARS coronavirus (SARS-CoV) had been demonstrated previously to form a cation-selective channel that may become expressed in the infected cell and is then involved in virus release. Drugs that inhibit the ion channel formed by the 3a protein can be expected to inhibit virus release, and would be a source for the development of novel therapeutic agents. Here we demonstrate that emodin can inhibit the 3a ion channel of coronavirus SARS-CoV and HCoV-OC43 as well as virus release from HCoV-OC43 with a K1/2 value of about 20 μM. We suggest that viral ion channels, in general, may be a good target for the development of antiviral agents.

PMID: 21356245

[lancebr]

So they still believe that the increase in ACE2 expression puts individuals at higher risk of infection.

 

https://www.thelance...0116-8/fulltext

 

So do you increase ACE2 expression or not?

[Dorian Grey]

I've been trying to figure out the ACE2 enzyme connection myself.  The virus is supposed to enter cells to replicate through the ACE2 receptor.  

 

What I don't know is whether or not the ACE2 enzyme carries or guides the virus to the ACE2 receptor sites or not.  I'm kind of thinking this might be might be the case.  The virus doesn't have eyes, and the thought it might simply float around until it randomly bumped into a receptor sounds unlikely.  Something guides it to the receptor.  The ACE2 enzyme is a likely suspect.  

Edited by Dorian Grey, 25 March 2020 - 04:18 AM.

[Dorian Grey]

My Spidey sense is tingling...  Did a real doctor just mention zinc? 

 

https://www.mediamat...-regimen-doctor

 

Sean Hannity reads Mike Pence a letter from unidentified doctor detailing a drug “regimen” the doctor claims prevents coronavirus deaths

 

"This (New York doctor) and his team have now treated approximately 350 patients in Kiryas Joel, it was an area of New York that was hit particularly hard and another 150 patients and other New York areas. 

 

"Hydroxychloroquine, 200 milligrams twice a day, five days. Azithromycin, 500 milligrams once a day, five days. Zinc sulfate, 220 milligrams once a day for five days"

 

"His results, we have had zero deaths, zero hospitalizations, zero intubations, zero."

 

Got Zinc?

Edited by Dorian Grey, 25 March 2020 - 04:23 AM.

[Dorian Grey]

US doctors are prescribing THEMSELVES experimental drugs Trump touted for treating coronavirus and hoarding the pills

 

https://www.dailymai...oronavirus.html

 

US doctors are prescribing themselves hydroxychloroquine in large quantities, a ProPublica report found

 

US doctors are hoarding supplies of drugs that are being tested for treating coronavirus.  Pharmacists in Miami and Houston have had similarly suspicious prescriptions called in by doctors making large orders of the drugs to stockpile and lupus patients throughout the US have complained they can't get their medication.

 

How do I buy stock in these companies?  

Edited by Dorian Grey, 25 March 2020 - 05:33 AM.

[lancebr]

I've been trying to figure out the ACE2 enzyme connection myself.  The virus is supposed to enter cells to replicate through the ACE2 receptor.  

 

What I don't know is whether or not the ACE2 enzyme carries or guides the virus to the ACE2 receptor sites or not.  I'm kind of thinking this might be might be the case.  The virus doesn't have eyes, and the thought it might simply float around until it randomly bumped into a receptor sounds unlikely.  Something guides it to the receptor.  The ACE2 enzyme is a likely suspect.  

 

Here is what some immunologists think about how the ACE2 is impacted by this virus:

 

"SARS-CoV and SARS-CoV-2 both use the same keyhole to enter cells, the ACE2 receptor. There’s an abundance of this receptor in cells in the lower lung which may explain the high incidence of pneumonia and bronchitis in those with severe COVID-19 infection.

 

A recent study showed that ACE2 is also highly expressed in the mouth and tongue, granting the virus easy access to a new host. ACE2 receptor abundance goes down in the elderly in all these tissues, but, counter intuitively, this might place them at a greater risk of severe illness.

 

This is because the ACE2 enzyme is an important regulator of the immune response, especially inflammation. It protects mice against acute lung injury triggered by sepsis. A 2014 study found that the ACE2 enzyme offers protection against lethal avian influenza. Some patients with better outcomes had higher levels of the protein in their sera, and turning off the gene for ACE2 led to severe lung damage in mice infected with H5N1, while treating mice with human ACE2 dampened lung injury. 

 

A fall in ACE2 activity in the elderly is partly to blame for humans’ poorer ability to put the brakes on our inflammatory response as we age, according to comments from Honpeng Jia of Johns Hopkins Medicine. Reduced abundance of ACE2 receptors in older adults could leave them less able to cope with SARS-CoV-2"

 

So if these immunologists are correct then they are saying that in the elderly there is reduced amounts of ACE2 and that is why they are suffering the worst damage to their lungs....and younger people have higher ACE2 and that is why it is not hitting them as hard.

 

Based upon this information I would take it that you would want to increase ACE2, correct?

[Dorian Grey]

I would want to block the virus at the ACE2 receptor site.  This is the Holy Grail of preventing viral replication. 

 

Looks like Hesperidin might do this!  

 

 

Edited by Dorian Grey, 25 March 2020 - 06:08 AM.

[lancebr]

I would want to block the virus at the ACE2 receptor site.  This is the Holy Grail of preventing viral replication. 

 

Looks like Hesperidin might do this!  

 

Based upon this study

 

Potential natural compounds for preventing 2019-nCoV infection  Hansen Chen, Qiaohui Du

 

The herb scutellarin (skullcap) was shown to have a higher affinity for binding to the ACE2 receptor to

block the virus.  It has a docking score of -14.9 which was better than Hesperdin.

 

"Here we conduct a molecular docking and find that scutellarin could bind to ACE2, with estimated ΔG (kcal/mol) -14.9,

with binding site GLU-495, UNK-957, ARG-482"

 

And it also has anti-viral properties for pneumonia and was being used over in China to treat Covid 19

 

https://link.springe...3020-019-0229-x

[pamojja]

Hesperidin is available as a supplement, but orange juice is a natural source.  Interestingly, fresh frozen concentrate seems to have the highest hesperidin levels.  The hesperidin is in the rind, and the commercial orange crushers used to make commercial juice squeeze the fruit so hard that more hesperidin is released.

 

Thats why I eat citrus fruits always with the peel.

 

The highest content of hesperidin was actually found in tangelo juice at about 80 mg/gram. http://microbiomepre...Details?fid=759 - but I believe these numbers for fruits would be higher, if also the peels would have been taken into account. As is usual in concentrates. After all, by concentrating only water-weight is reduced.
 

[sciack]

What about royal jelly? Can help or exacerbate a cytokines storm?

[Izan]

My Spidey sense is tingling...  Did a real doctor just mention zinc? 

 

https://www.mediamat...-regimen-doctor

 

Sean Hannity reads Mike Pence a letter from unidentified doctor detailing a drug “regimen” the doctor claims prevents coronavirus deaths

 

"This (New York doctor) and his team have now treated approximately 350 patients in Kiryas Joel, it was an area of New York that was hit particularly hard and another 150 patients and other New York areas. 

 

"Hydroxychloroquine, 200 milligrams twice a day, five days. Azithromycin, 500 milligrams once a day, five days. Zinc sulfate, 220 milligrams once a day for five days"

 

"His results, we have had zero deaths, zero hospitalizations, zero intubations, zero."

 

Got Zinc?

Hahaha, boom!

[Izan]

The Netherlands to become the third country (after China and the US) to treat COVID-19 with plasma from recovered patients

 

https://www.ad.nl/do...geven~aef2de50/

[Izan]

Prince Charles has been diagnosed with COVID-19.

 

He is over 70 years old, yet he has only mild symptoms.

 

 

I found out what his bloodtype is: It's O negative.

 

https://news.sky.com...vid-19-11963363

 

[thompson92]

Prince Charles has been diagnosed with COVID-19.

 

He is over 70 years old, yet he has only mild symptoms.

 

 

I found out what his bloodtype is: It's O negative.

 

https://news.sky.com...vid-19-11963363

 

A lot of royals are O-.  I have DNA/bloodlines back to King Edward I, my family hails from London, and I am O negative.

[OP2040]

Here's some good news that makes sense.  I've been skeptical of the previous studies saying this will last 18 months and result in millions of death.  Frankly, it never passed the smell test.  Here's a recent study with much more realistic assumptions:

 

https://www.ft.com/c...df-41bea055720b

 

Basically, the idea is that the virus has already been around for a month earlier than previously thought, which dramatically changes the timeline of the epidemic.  It also confirms what we have seen in China and South Korea.

 

I've been wondering whether myself and parts of my family have already had it.  Certainly, I've had sore throat and cough, but that is not uncommon for me in winter.  We need that antibody test.

Edited by OP2040, 25 March 2020 - 02:09 PM.

[zorba990]

Hesperidin methyl chalcone is the supplement I have on hand. It says it's water soluble.
It's rather expensive so it would be great if there is a DIY method of making it from bulk Hesperidin Powder

It's a cytokine inhibitor as well..

https://www.scienced...009279715000174
Highlights
•
Hesperidin methyl chalcone (HMC) inhibited inflammation and pain.

•
HMC inhibited TRPV1 agonist-induced inflammation and pain.

•
HMC inhibited oxidative stress, cytokine production and NF-κB activation.

•
HMC did not present hepatic or gastric toxic effect during 7 days of treatment.

Edited by zorba990, 25 March 2020 - 02:28 PM.

[xEva]

I've been trying to figure out the ACE2 enzyme connection myself.  The virus is supposed to enter cells to replicate through the ACE2 receptor.  

 

What I don't know is whether or not the ACE2 enzyme carries or guides the virus to the ACE2 receptor sites or not.  I'm kind of thinking this might be might be the case.  The virus doesn't have eyes, and the thought it might simply float around until it randomly bumped into a receptor sounds unlikely.  Something guides it to the receptor.  The ACE2 enzyme is a likely suspect.  

 

 

I don't thing an enzyme is needed for docking to a receptor. Rather, everything happens due to electromagnetic  interactions. Each molecule has a pattern of positive and negative charges, in a certain configuration. The receptor has the same configuration in opposite polarities. So when a molecule appears nearby, if it matches the reverse pattern of polarities, it snaps right in  onto receptor, like a magnetic clothing snap. 

[zorba990]

New York hospitals are treating all coronavirus patients with high doses of IV VITAMIN C after promising results from China

https://www.dailymai...-VITAMIN-C.html

Dr Andrew Weber shared that he has been immediately giving his intensive-care patients 1,500 milligrams of intravenous vitamin C

The Long Island based pulmonologist and critical-care specialist with Northwell Health shared that patients are given three to four doses a day

Jason Molinet, a spokesman for Northwell, said that Vitamin C is being 'widely used' as a coronavirus treatment throughout the health system

I think the dose is low but hurray for some progress.

Here is something you will like that is related:

https://pubmed.ncbi....0JFzapsAvaigswg

Hydrocortisone, Ascorbic Acid and Thiamine (HAT Therapy) for the Treatment of Sepsis. Focus on Ascorbic Acid

Paul E Marik 1
Affiliations expand
PMID: 30441816 PMCID: PMC6265973 DOI: 10.3390/nu10111762
Abstract

Sepsis is a devastating disease that carries an enormous toll in terms of human suffering and lives lost. Over 100 novel pharmacologic agents that targeted specific molecules or pathways have failed to improve the outcome of sepsis. Preliminary data suggests that the combination of Hydrocortisone, Ascorbic Acid and Thiamine (HAT therapy) may reduce organ failure and mortality in patients with sepsis and septic shock. HAT therapy is based on the concept that a combination of readily available, safe and cheap agents, which target multiple components of the host's response to an infectious agent, will synergistically restore the dysregulated immune response and thereby prevent organ failure and death. This paper reviews the rationale for HAT therapy with a focus on vitamin C.

Edited by zorba990, 25 March 2020 - 03:43 PM.

[Daniel Cooper]

Mass media news article:
 
Covid-19 Research Updates: Chinese Study Reveals That Hypokalemia Present In Almost All Covid-19 Patients
 
Paper on which that article is based:
 
Hypokalemia and Clinical Implications in Patients with Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

[OP2040]

I realize it's simplistic, but does that mean upping your potassium might help during the infection phase?  Hard to say, but these things are so easy to do and safe that it's worth trying anyway.

[OP2040]

oops, should have read the article first, they actually did supplement the patients with K+ and it did help... nice.

[OP2040]

The hypokalema thing might also point to the exact type of hypertension that is more problematic.  I think aldosteronism has hypokalemia as a symptom.  So it may be this subtype, as opposed to sympathetic or other sub-types.

 

aldosterone pathway is also the culprit in greater hypertension among Black people.  But I haven't seen any reports of that group having greater susceptibility or worse outcomes.

Edited by OP2040, 25 March 2020 - 04:05 PM.

[thompson92]

The hypokalema thing might also point to the exact type of hypertension that is more problematic.  I think aldosteronism has hypokalemia as a symptom.  So it may be this subtype, as opposed to sympathetic or other sub-types.

 

aldosterone pathway is also the culprit in greater hypertension among Black people.  But I haven't seen any reports of that group having greater susceptibility or worse outcomes.

 

This is exactly correct.  The worst covid patients end up hypokalemic and their blood pressure is high.  It's dis-regulated RAS/aldosterone.

[OP2040]

Lots of good data in the full paper, which also confirms the immuno-compromised theory. Lets not forget that the lifetime risk of hypertension is >90%, so using that as a proxy alone is fairly worthless and exactly the same as using aging as a proxy. 

Edited by OP2040, 25 March 2020 - 04:51 PM.