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Protecting from Coronavirus - Supplements & Therapies

coronavirus flu disease epidemics viruses immunity covid-19

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#781 Dorian Grey

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Posted 08 April 2020 - 03:10 AM

I'm still trying to fully understand the immune response and immune system.  As of now, I don't think it's an issue -- or at least nearly as big an issue as the benefits offered by Vitamin D.  Part of this is genetics and we don't know who is going to have a really poor innate immune response and thus, a huge counterregulatory cytokine response, so it's hard to know.  I take 4-5000 IU per day.

 

I'm honestly kind of burnt out looking at this virus and need to take a break, I will try to finish looking at this stuff over the weekend, I think.

 

I'm getting research fatigue myself.  We've only got 1454 cases in all of San Diego co, & the curve has flattened dramatically over the last few days.  

 

I've about finalized my stack with quinine/cimetidine, zinc & lactoferrin as my primaries.  I've always disliked polypharmacy & want to keep it safe & simple.  



#782 bladedmind

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Posted 08 April 2020 - 03:13 AM

Some Covid-19 patients can worsen and fail because of herpetic infections in the brainstem or hypothalamus, a treating physician speculates.  The challenged immune system, if I have it right, can’t control the usually latent herpes, which manifests, and then the system is challenged by dual infections.  Proposal:  if herpetic, use acyclovir to hold herpes in check.   Not saying that acyclovir treats coronavirus. 

https://gracelive.tistory.com/65

Blogpost, with two journal citations.


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#783 bladedmind

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Posted 08 April 2020 - 03:30 AM

Don’t think that chloroquine coronavirus prophylaxis requires a daily dose!
 
Chloroquine prophylaxis for malaria:

Suppression — Adult Dose: 500 mg (= 300 mg base) on exactly the same day of each week.
 
If circumstances permit, suppressive therapy should begin two weeks prior to exposure. However, failing this in adults, an initial double (loading) dose of 1 g (= 600 mg base), or in children 10 mg base/kg may be taken in two divided doses, six hours apart. The suppressive therapy should be continued for eight weeks after leaving the endemic area.

 

 

These drugs have been used a billion times in malaria prophylaxis and treatment.  The risk profile is modest.  The risks of prophylactic treatment are even more modest.  Long ago I took it myself for malaria prophylaxis, for 10 weeks - barely noticed it.  Later, doxycycline for malaria prophylaxis bothered me much, much more.  I urge that anyone contemplating taking chloroquine seek medical advice or be responsibly and competently informed about risks and benefits. 
 
Memo, with nine citations, from a Hungarian clinic, speculative hypothesis:

At EC50 values of 6.25 micromolar at 24 hours after a single dose of 800 mg, hydroxycholoroquine may be a promising drug for prevention of SARS-CoV-19 (8). Hydroxychloroquine metabolites can accumulate at highest concentration in liver, adrenal and lung tissue in rodents (9). Physiologically-based pharmacokinetic models (PBPK) implemented by integrating in vitro data and simulating the concentration of hydroxychloroquine in lung  fluid suggests that a single dose of hydroxychloroquine at 800 mg. may provide a lung tissue concentration that is more than twenty times higher than EC50 values necessary to inhibit SARS-CoV-2 in the lung on day 1 (8). It is plausible that a single dose of 400 mg or even 200 mg can provide adequate lung tissue concentration to inhibit SAR-CoV-2. Since the half life after a single dose of 200 mg is 22 days (FDA data), a single dose every week or even every three weeks should be sufficient for prevention of SARS-CoV-2 induced lung damage. At these doses and schedules. Hydroxychloroquine should be well tolerated and unlikely to cause significant druğ-drug interactions.
 
The blood or sinus concentrations may not be sufficient to eradicate the virus, however prevention of lung damage may convert this deadly infection into an upper respiratory infection.

 

 

When reading these items be sure to clearly distinguish between hydroxychloroquine, chloroquine base, and chloroquine salts, each of which has different dosages and risks. 

 

I have taken a week 1 500 mg dose and a week 2 500 mg dose of chloroquine phosphate.  I'll post a subjective report after week 3.  

 

Caution is advised, but the political and professional fear mongering about this substance is shameful.

 


  • Agree x 1

#784 resveratrol_guy

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Posted 08 April 2020 - 04:47 AM

Here's another HCQ success story

https://www.wpxi.com...TOH25XYPSP64VE/

 

Ironically they were worried that "The biggest concern is a possible negative reaction with the antibiotic Z-Pak her father was already taking." It just shows how poorly information is migrating from the research community to the front lines; Z Pak (azithromycin, more specifically) is part of the protocol! He might not have turned a corner, otherwise. (Even so, there is no mention of zinc.)



#785 resveratrol_guy

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Posted 08 April 2020 - 04:50 AM

So here's a question for the class ......

 

Let's say you came down sick with covid-19 tomorrow.  It's just started, but you are up and about and just feeling very bad.  Fever, some bronchial congestion, a little tightness, that sort of thing.  But, you have not evolved into serious pneumonia or any of the other life threatening complications.

 

If you had chloroquine, azithromycin, and zinc on hand ..... would you take them at this stage or would you want to see if your symptoms where evolving in a more serious direction?

 

Yes, I would take them, even without a positive test. (This comes directly from Zelenko's triage rules, but he uses HCQ rather than CQ, obviously.) No harm in cutting short a nasty flu if it's not in fact COVID19.

 

Some people are prophylactically megadosing vitamin D, which risks mortality due to cardiovascular complications, and zinc, which is also toxic in doses exceeding RDA by only a small factor. I realize this isn't a quantitative statement, but my goal is just to make people aware of the pitfalls.

 

Consider a pneumonia vaccine so you don't need to worry as much about the need for azithromycin (although it's a weak senolytic in addition to an antibiotic).


Edited by resveratrol_guy, 08 April 2020 - 05:14 AM.

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#786 Kalliste

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Posted 08 April 2020 - 05:05 AM

I agree that simulating sunlight indoors is probably very healthy, including for reasons we don't yet know about. In another COVID-19 thread where you claimed the same thing, another poster offered a link to a study on open-air treatment of the Spanish flu. The only mention of UVB in that study is in a reference to another study which says that, in the case of influenza, the data demonstrated "the efficacy of germicidal UV-irradiation in disinfection of air by reducing the concentration of viable organisms which, in turn, reduces the severity of respiratory infection when transmitted to the susceptible host." So that basically means that you have less of a chance catching a virus in sunlight than you do indoors.

 

I tried to research the effect of UV radiation on immunity, and it appears that it suppresses the immune system, which can be a good thing for autoimmune disorders (see attached file for a comprehensive recent review). So I guess UVB could be good in suppressing the "cytokine storm". I haven't read this entire thread, but is it a fact that the serious cases are caused by the "cytokine storm", and is there consensus on when in the prevention/treatment of COVID-19 you would want the immune system go from being active to being suppressed?

 

When this virus began making Waves in january I assumed it would be a Great Equalizer. Man, women, children would all be struck down the same following random infection patterns. 

 

It was depressing to think that an airborne lung plague would kill me or burden me with decades of aging damage. I have put in a fair amount of work in my own health in recent years.

 

But the evidence has been coming in fast and hard: The virus is a multiplier on pre-existing aging damage. 

 

Modern media do not report details of weight,race, diets, barely age is reported, so we are often left to wonder but on social media the reporting exists:

African americans, somali swedes, vegans, geriatrics, cancer patients, the obese, the already poisoned.

 

The Chinese in Wuhan: Poisoned by the Asian Brown Cloud. Also ground zero, they got no warning unlike us.

https://en.wikipedia...ian_brown_cloud

 

Any African living outside Africa: Starved of photons unless they undertake a massive solarium program, even then it has to be hard to simulate the equatorial Death rays of the sun.

 

Vegans: I don't wanna antagonize our forum vegans but I Think 90 % are starving in some sense, most mainstream vegans are cheatarians, internal obesity, candy as substitute for real food.

Many of them seem unnaturally pale, do they sit Indoors or is it harder to get a tan without retinol etc?

 

Obese: A Proxy for people who do not take care of their Health, do not see the sun, depleted immune system. 

 

Did you ever see hugely obese people Walking in the forest canopy under the sun very often? I go there all the time and NEVER see them. 

 

During the spanish flu of 1918 sailors in the US military had a lot lower mortality than people on land even when the disease was spread onboard. To me the treatment of fresh air and Sunlight seems like a core concept

 

  The germicidal effect should not be scoffed as "an effect" as we have the issue of reinfection during your Active Infection and the issue of viral load and continued inhaled viral load which we now know is what kills dead Young nurses and doctors who work with the infected. 

 

Details of the immune system?  Daytime UV produce nighttime melatonin: Key antioxidant, regulator of immune Health.

Produce NO, I sleep like a holy cow after sessions with the UV lamp. NO also keeps showing up in this disease. 

 

I don't know to be honest but my bet is high solar exposure combined with good metabolic health is a superior alternative for a multitude of reasons known and unknown.

 

There is no patent on photons so research is very lacking but the ancients were strict on it.

 

I have made blood donation today to cut my ferritin.  My bloodgroup was 0+  ;)

 

If I get sick I would want HCQ+Azthtromycin+Zinc+C vitamin oral/IV  ASAP, I am not betting on the sun to save me, only perhaps save me from intubation and ARDS

 

 

Another bet I'm running is that passive heat therapy could be good prophy: Hot baths and infrared sauna is done 5 Days a week. If the virus is silently incubating that should improve my odds. 


Edited by Kalliste, 08 April 2020 - 05:08 AM.

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#787 albedo

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Posted 08 April 2020 - 08:22 AM

To me the following is an approach which would require trials and prioritization, during and after the crisis. You might get insight from this small review likely known to many of you:

Zhavoronkov A. Geroprotective and senoremediative strategies to reduce the comorbidity, infection rates, severity, and lethality in gerophilic and gerolavic infections. Aging (Albany NY). 2020;12



#788 mike_ag

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Posted 08 April 2020 - 08:32 AM

Different plan for me and my relatives : 
 
I'm currently on quercetin (3g par day) and zinc (60mg per day) + EGCs + NAC + VitD + VitC
If I get symptoms I plan to stop the quercetin and switch to hydroxychloroquine + azythromycin. 
 
My parents though are 80+ years old so the plan is different : 
_ Mother currently on low dose HCQ (autoimmune disease treatment) and I added some covid prophylactics (30mg zinc + NAC + VitC)
If she gets sick I wouldn't be able to give her azythromycin, she's allergic to macrolides. I would ask her doctor for some alternative antibiotic to fight against the bacterial pneumonia risk.
_ Father doesn't tolerate anything I give him as prophylactic so I'm just monitoring him closely for symptoms. If he gets sick, I'd put him on HCQ + Zinc. I'm a bit wary of the HCQ + azythromycin. He didn't have an ECG since few years so I don't know what I'd do, frankly.
 
I hope we won't get sick as we don't have much HCQ on hands anymore, and my mom needs them for her chronic disease. 
 


#789 Izan

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Posted 08 April 2020 - 09:50 AM

When this virus began making Waves in january I assumed it would be a Great Equalizer. Man, women, children would all be struck down the same following random infection patterns. 

 

It was depressing to think that an airborne lung plague would kill me or burden me with decades of aging damage. I have put in a fair amount of work in my own health in recent years.

 

But the evidence has been coming in fast and hard: The virus is a multiplier on pre-existing aging damage. 

 

Modern media do not report details of weight,race, diets, barely age is reported, so we are often left to wonder but on social media the reporting exists:

African americans, somali swedes, vegans, geriatrics, cancer patients, the obese, the already poisoned.

 

The Chinese in Wuhan: Poisoned by the Asian Brown Cloud. Also ground zero, they got no warning unlike us.

https://en.wikipedia...ian_brown_cloud

 

Any African living outside Africa: Starved of photons unless they undertake a massive solarium program, even then it has to be hard to simulate the equatorial Death rays of the sun.

 

Vegans: I don't wanna antagonize our forum vegans but I Think 90 % are starving in some sense, most mainstream vegans are cheatarians, internal obesity, candy as substitute for real food.

Many of them seem unnaturally pale, do they sit Indoors or is it harder to get a tan without retinol etc?

 

Obese: A Proxy for people who do not take care of their Health, do not see the sun, depleted immune system. 

 

Did you ever see hugely obese people Walking in the forest canopy under the sun very often? I go there all the time and NEVER see them. 

 

During the spanish flu of 1918 sailors in the US military had a lot lower mortality than people on land even when the disease was spread onboard. To me the treatment of fresh air and Sunlight seems like a core concept

 

  The germicidal effect should not be scoffed as "an effect" as we have the issue of reinfection during your Active Infection and the issue of viral load and continued inhaled viral load which we now know is what kills dead Young nurses and doctors who work with the infected. 

 

Details of the immune system?  Daytime UV produce nighttime melatonin: Key antioxidant, regulator of immune Health.

Produce NO, I sleep like a holy cow after sessions with the UV lamp. NO also keeps showing up in this disease. 

 

I don't know to be honest but my bet is high solar exposure combined with good metabolic health is a superior alternative for a multitude of reasons known and unknown.

 

There is no patent on photons so research is very lacking but the ancients were strict on it.

 

I have made blood donation today to cut my ferritin.  My bloodgroup was 0+  ;)

 

If I get sick I would want HCQ+Azthtromycin+Zinc+C vitamin oral/IV  ASAP, I am not betting on the sun to save me, only perhaps save me from intubation and ARDS

 

 

Another bet I'm running is that passive heat therapy could be good prophy: Hot baths and infrared sauna is done 5 Days a week. If the virus is silently incubating that should improve my odds. 

haha, you covered almost everything, well done! 


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#790 LOOKINGFORTIME

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Posted 08 April 2020 - 10:55 AM

I know that I do not have access to the two meds that may help, is their a possibility of a group buy for the experimental meds?



#791 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 08 April 2020 - 11:46 AM

I'd be careful with chloroquine powder.  The therapeutic window is quite narrow.  A wee bit too much and cardiac QT can become Q with no T (asystole!)

 

Don't know if you've got a "Head Shop" in your area, but many of them have drug scales that accurately measure down to milligram level.  I wouldn't test dose over 100mg to start, & chloroquine has a long half life (days, not hours)

 

I've been wondering in those replete with zinc, whether lower doses of chloroquine (or even quinine) might be effective with less risk of cardiac issues.  They are dosing chloroquine and HCQ based on what was needed for malaria, lupus & RA, which is near the toxic limit.  It may be that for COVID, less may suffice. 

 

My sis was prescribed chloroquine before her Africa trip and her doc was very casual about it.  "Here's your scrip...  Bon Voyage".  She said it gave her a bit of diarrhea, but nothing more.  

 

Oh, I have a 0.1mg accurate scale.  Had it for ages and wouldn't dose anything serious without it.

 

And yes, chloroquine in general has a smallish therapeutic window, the phosphate form in particular.

 

 



#792 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 08 April 2020 - 11:51 AM

Consider a pneumonia vaccine so you don't need to worry as much about the need for azithromycin (although it's a weak senolytic in addition to an antibiotic).

 

The azithromycin isn't in general given for a secondary bacterial infection.  It actually has an anti-viral action of it own against coronavirus independent of it's antibiotic effect.

 

There's a paper that I posted far back in this thread that is sort of a mega study of drugs and compounds with some evidence of anti-viral activity against SARS/MERS/Covid-19.  Azithromycin is on the list.

 

 



#793 davejam

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Posted 08 April 2020 - 12:40 PM

NPR had a story this morning on Cytokine storm.  Potential solution being "steroids and IL-6 inhibitors".

I worry about those forging through the sickness not taking appropriate precautions (beyond distancing), Chris Cuomo comes to mind.

 

https://www.npr.org/...ght-be-to-blame

 

Also, I wish there was more information on the people that died on Chloroquine phosphate (CP).  I suspect they attempted doses similar to HCQ, which based on the 1x per week recommendation for CP would be way overdoing it.

It seems the dosing of HCQ is on the order of 3-5g in 4-10 days which certainly would be problematic for CP.


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#794 resveratrol_guy

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Posted 08 April 2020 - 01:19 PM

 

I hope we won't get sick as we don't have much HCQ on hands anymore, and my mom needs them for her chronic disease.

 

Considering that HCQ is worth its weight in gold at the moment...

 

Back in 2017, a friend of mine complained that her pharmaceutical regimen wasn't controlling her lupus (which is sometimes treated with HCQ). She was struggling to hang on as a taxi driver but the inflammation was making it difficult. I recommended Longvida, and she says it worked wonders for her within a few days. Yeah, I know, it's only an anecdote, but it might be worth a try if it enables your mother to save HCQ for a life-and-death battle with COVID.
 



#795 bladedmind

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Posted 08 April 2020 - 02:05 PM

Azithromycin and ciprofloxacin have a chloroquine-like effect on respiratory epithelial cells

https://www.biorxiv....8631v1.full.pdf

 

Don't have the link. sorry, but one clinician proposed that doxycycline might also have this effect.  But that's second-hand from memory, so research if interested. 

 

 

Different plan for me and my relatives : 
 
I'm currently on quercetin (3g par day) and zinc (60mg per day) + EGCs + NAC + VitD + VitC
If I get symptoms I plan to stop the quercetin and switch to hydroxychloroquine + azythromycin. 
 
My parents though are 80+ years old so the plan is different : 
_ Mother currently on low dose HCQ (autoimmune disease treatment) and I added some covid prophylactics (30mg zinc + NAC + VitC)
If she gets sick I wouldn't be able to give her azythromycin, she's allergic to macrolides. I would ask her doctor for some alternative antibiotic to fight against the bacterial pneumonia risk.
_ Father doesn't tolerate anything I give him as prophylactic so I'm just monitoring him closely for symptoms. If he gets sick, I'd put him on HCQ + Zinc. I'm a bit wary of the HCQ + azythromycin. He didn't have an ECG since few years so I don't know what I'd do, frankly.
 
I hope we won't get sick as we don't have much HCQ on hands anymore, and my mom needs them for her chronic disease. 

 

 



#796 osris

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Posted 08 April 2020 - 02:31 PM

Only use pure ascorbic acid powder, since in such high doses you would get too much binders or fillers with caps/pills, as would be healthy.
 

 

Is this necessarily bad if the powder is not available to you. The amount of binders etc would be negligible anyway, and any negative affect would be modulated by the vit C.



#797 osris

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Posted 08 April 2020 - 02:46 PM

Just been reading the Wikipedia entry on megadosing with vit C. Its quite negative about it. Not that I think Wikipedia is a reliable source of information. Here it is:

 

https://en.wikipedia...Adverse_effects

 

What do you make of it.



#798 Dorian Grey

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Posted 08 April 2020 - 03:24 PM

Just been reading the Wikipedia entry on megadosing with vit C. Its quite negative about it. Not that I think Wikipedia is a reliable source of information. Here it is:

 

https://en.wikipedia...Adverse_effects

 

What do you make of it.

 

I've noticed wiki is very anti-supp and anti alternative medicine in general.  Look at any of their pages on vitamins, herbals etc and they are full of "no scientific proof" / "might be dangerous" poo-pooing of any non-pharmaceutical health agents or therapies.  


Edited by Dorian Grey, 08 April 2020 - 03:25 PM.

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#799 pamojja

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Posted 08 April 2020 - 04:10 PM

Is this necessarily bad if the powder is not available to you. The amount of binders etc would be negligible anyway, and any negative affect would be modulated by the vit C.

 

Yes it is bad, because the binders and fillers will add up to many grams too. Not negligible at all. Having to modulate the negative effects of so much junk, you better would go without vitamin C pills or capsules in the many grams range.

 

Wikipedia is sponsored by the pharmaceutical industry, therefore don't expect anything evidence based in their natural medicine reviews.

 

Where you're from? Though vitamin C might run short in local shops, it can still be bought by the tons online. Like 3.8 tons of 1kg bags at https://purebulk.com...=14294918037553 (only down half a ton from a month ago).
 


Edited by pamojja, 08 April 2020 - 04:13 PM.


#800 lancebr

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Posted 08 April 2020 - 04:21 PM

Azithromycin and ciprofloxacin have a chloroquine-like effect on respiratory epithelial cells

https://www.biorxiv....8631v1.full.pdf

 

Don't have the link. sorry, but one clinician proposed that doxycycline might also have this effect.  But that's second-hand from memory, so research if interested. 

 

Doctors are already using hydroxychloroquine with doxycycline, in place of azithromycin, since it has less side effects:

 

 

https://nypost.com/2...id-19-patients/

 

 

Doxycycline does seem to have some antiviral properties:

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/24142271

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/26459887

 

 

 


Edited by lancebr, 08 April 2020 - 04:28 PM.

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#801 Rosanna

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Posted 08 April 2020 - 05:23 PM

Just been reading the Wikipedia entry on megadosing with vit C. Its quite negative about it. Not that I think Wikipedia is a reliable source of information. Here it is:

 

https://en.wikipedia...Adverse_effects

 

What do you make of it.

 

I've been unwell with a virus for 7 days (and over 14 days if you count a week's gap in between before it returned).....anecdotally, I can say that I feel better after taking 1000mg of Vit C in the morning and again at night.  The other supplement I'm taking is zinc, so it may be that.  Who knows what virus I have though, until there are tests available here in the UK.  That said I'm never usually ill at Easter.


Edited by Rosanna, 08 April 2020 - 05:29 PM.


#802 Mind

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Posted 08 April 2020 - 05:55 PM

When this virus began making Waves in january I assumed it would be a Great Equalizer. Man, women, children would all be struck down the same following random infection patterns. 

 

It was depressing to think that an airborne lung plague would kill me or burden me with decades of aging damage. I have put in a fair amount of work in my own health in recent years.

 

But the evidence has been coming in fast and hard: The virus is a multiplier on pre-existing aging damage. 

 

Modern media do not report details of weight,race, diets, barely age is reported, so we are often left to wonder but on social media the reporting exists:

African americans, somali swedes, vegans, geriatrics, cancer patients, the obese, the already poisoned.

 

The Chinese in Wuhan: Poisoned by the Asian Brown Cloud. Also ground zero, they got no warning unlike us.

https://en.wikipedia...ian_brown_cloud

 

Any African living outside Africa: Starved of photons unless they undertake a massive solarium program, even then it has to be hard to simulate the equatorial Death rays of the sun.

 

Vegans: I don't wanna antagonize our forum vegans but I Think 90 % are starving in some sense, most mainstream vegans are cheatarians, internal obesity, candy as substitute for real food.

Many of them seem unnaturally pale, do they sit Indoors or is it harder to get a tan without retinol etc?

 

Obese: A Proxy for people who do not take care of their Health, do not see the sun, depleted immune system. 

 

Did you ever see hugely obese people Walking in the forest canopy under the sun very often? I go there all the time and NEVER see them. 

 

During the spanish flu of 1918 sailors in the US military had a lot lower mortality than people on land even when the disease was spread onboard. To me the treatment of fresh air and Sunlight seems like a core concept

 

  The germicidal effect should not be scoffed as "an effect" as we have the issue of reinfection during your Active Infection and the issue of viral load and continued inhaled viral load which we now know is what kills dead Young nurses and doctors who work with the infected. 

 

Details of the immune system?  Daytime UV produce nighttime melatonin: Key antioxidant, regulator of immune Health.

Produce NO, I sleep like a holy cow after sessions with the UV lamp. NO also keeps showing up in this disease. 

 

I don't know to be honest but my bet is high solar exposure combined with good metabolic health is a superior alternative for a multitude of reasons known and unknown.

 

There is no patent on photons so research is very lacking but the ancients were strict on it.

 

I have made blood donation today to cut my ferritin.  My bloodgroup was 0+  ;)

 

If I get sick I would want HCQ+Azthtromycin+Zinc+C vitamin oral/IV  ASAP, I am not betting on the sun to save me, only perhaps save me from intubation and ARDS

 

 

Another bet I'm running is that passive heat therapy could be good prophy: Hot baths and infrared sauna is done 5 Days a week. If the virus is silently incubating that should improve my odds. 

 

If you want to further discuss the fact that unhealthy people (by age or by poor lifestyle choices) are the vast majority of COVID-19 deaths, consider posting in this thread: https://www.longecit...d-19-therapies/



#803 Kalliste

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Posted 08 April 2020 - 05:56 PM

 
NEW RESEARCH: COVID-19 is causing prolonged & progressive hypoxia (starving your body of oxygen) by binding to the heme groups in hemoglobin in your red blood cells. Patients are progressively desaturating (losing o2 in their blood), & as a result, it’s leading to organ failures
·
 
COVID-19 glycoproteins bond to the heme groups, and in doing so the oxidative iron ion is “disassociated” (released) from red blood cells. Without the iron ion, hemoglobin can no longer bind to oxygen, rendering the red blood cells useless.
·
 
It is very likely that this is more the case, rather than developing a form of ARDS or pneumonia. Many doctors are starting to believe that they are operating under a false notion of pneumonia, & possibly treating the wrong symptoms on a systematic basis throughout the country.
·
 
Ventilators may not be treating the root cause, as many of the patient’s lungs aren’t ‘tiring out’, they’re pumping just fine. It is instead that the affected hemoglobin have been stripped of their ability to carry oxygen, resulting in hypoxia.
 

 

The body compensates for this lack of o2 carrying capacity by having your kidneys release hormones like erythropoietin, which tell your bone marrow factories to ramp up production on new red blood cells with freshly made and fully functioning hemoglobin.
·
This is the reason you find elevated hemoglobin and decreased blood oxygen saturation as one of the 3 primary indicators of poor prognosis for a particular patient.
 
If the patient’s immune system doesn’t fight off the virus in time before their blood oxygen saturation drops too low, ventilator or no ventilator, organs start shutting down. The only way to try to keep them going is by delivering oxygen or a transfusion of red blood cells.
 
This is why it is absolutely crucial to treat patients in an outpatient setting with hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin, before they deteriorate and have to go to the ICU.
 
 
Hydroxychloroquine is also used for malaria, a pathogen that also interferes with the red blood cells. Malaria uses host hemoglobin as its food source. HCQ interferes with COVID-19 surface spike proteins and prevents them from dislodging the hemoglobin in the red blood cells.
HCQ also effects some aspects of cellular PH, preventing viral replication and entry. In conclusion, Physicians may need to re-evaluate treatment options and their basis-of-understanding for COVID-19, in light of its newly realized ability to induce hypoxemia in the patient.
 
Added: Reactive oxygen species in erythrocytes are generated through heme degradation. Displaced Fe, released after viral attack on hemoglobin, is thought to be responsible for extensive free radical damage to the lungs.

 

 
Some updates on the details of the disease. The last part made me jump, I have suspected oxidative damage to be a big player in this from the start. Now we find out it is rampant fenton chemistry!

What can be done? 

Myo-inositol, antioxidants like melatonin, Vitamin C, NAC, Gluta, C60oo, MitoQ all come to mind.

I wish we had IAC or those PEH-HCCs...

 

I've been unwell with a virus for 7 days (and over 14 days if you count a week's gap in between before it returned).....anecdotally, I can say that I feel better after taking 1000mg of Vit C in the morning and again at night.  The other supplement I'm taking is zinc, so it may be that.  Who knows what virus I have though, until there are tests available here in the UK.  That said I'm never usually ill at Easter.

 

1g C-vitamin is nothing. I have a flask of water that I mix with 15g ascorbic acid and drink through a normal day. I would not usually do this since I believe C-vitamin impairs hormetic signaling and might protect cancer cells from ROS bursting but this is a special time.


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#804 Rosanna

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Posted 08 April 2020 - 06:03 PM

1g C-vitamin is nothing. I have a flask of water that I mix with 15g ascorbic acid and drink through a normal day. I would not usually do this since I believe C-vitamin impairs hormetic signaling and might protect cancer cells from ROS bursting but this is a special time.

 

 

Yes, this is why I only usually take 500mg...

 

Interesting.  I'll up my dose......but I don't know by that much, not brave enough for that, even gradually.



#805 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 08 April 2020 - 06:37 PM

 

NEW RESEARCH: COVID-19 is causing prolonged & progressive hypoxia (starving your body of oxygen) by binding to the heme groups in hemoglobin in your red blood cells. Patients are progressively desaturating (losing o2 in their blood), & as a result, it’s leading to organ failures

·
COVID-19 glycoproteins bond to the heme groups, and in doing so the oxidative iron ion is “disassociated” (released) from red blood cells. Without the iron ion, hemoglobin can no longer bind to oxygen, rendering the red blood cells useless.
·
It is very likely that this is more the case, rather than developing a form of ARDS or pneumonia. Many doctors are starting to believe that they are operating under a false notion of pneumonia, & possibly treating the wrong symptoms on a systematic basis throughout the country.
·
Ventilators may not be treating the root cause, as many of the patient’s lungs aren’t ‘tiring out’, they’re pumping just fine. It is instead that the affected hemoglobin have been stripped of their ability to carry oxygen, resulting in hypoxia.
 

 

The body compensates for this lack of o2 carrying capacity by having your kidneys release hormones like erythropoietin, which tell your bone marrow factories to ramp up production on new red blood cells with freshly made and fully functioning hemoglobin.
·
This is the reason you find elevated hemoglobin and decreased blood oxygen saturation as one of the 3 primary indicators of poor prognosis for a particular patient.
 
If the patient’s immune system doesn’t fight off the virus in time before their blood oxygen saturation drops too low, ventilator or no ventilator, organs start shutting down. The only way to try to keep them going is by delivering oxygen or a transfusion of red blood cells.
 
This is why it is absolutely crucial to treat patients in an outpatient setting with hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin, before they deteriorate and have to go to the ICU.
 
 
Hydroxychloroquine is also used for malaria, a pathogen that also interferes with the red blood cells. Malaria uses host hemoglobin as its food source. HCQ interferes with COVID-19 surface spike proteins and prevents them from dislodging the hemoglobin in the red blood cells.
HCQ also effects some aspects of cellular PH, preventing viral replication and entry. In conclusion, Physicians may need to re-evaluate treatment options and their basis-of-understanding for COVID-19, in light of its newly realized ability to induce hypoxemia in the patient.
 
Added: Reactive oxygen species in erythrocytes are generated through heme degradation. Displaced Fe, released after viral attack on hemoglobin, is thought to be responsible for extensive free radical damage to the lungs.

 

What is the source of this quote?

 

 


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#806 lancebr

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Posted 08 April 2020 - 09:42 PM

Trump just said that they need to add zinc to the hydroxy. 

 

So if you need to buy some zinc you better buy now before a shortage.

 

I can just imagine what the MSM is going to say about him recommending zinc.

 

Update: The news just broke into the briefing and has a doctor saying he does not

know what the President means about zinc and that there is no evidence that zinc

is even helpful in treatment of Covid. He goes on to say that he thinks it is wrong

for the President to be recommending zinc since there is nothing to show it helps.

Another person on the news is saying that recommendation of zinc is a right wing

media push and there is no evidence that it works.  So this is their new push now

against zinc.

 

Another doctor is stating that he thinks hydroxy and amizo treatment really does not

seem to give that much benefit....he says that 80% will get better anyway on their own

so that it is not really the drugs making the person better.

 

On the bottom of the screen the MSM has the following statement:

 

"Trump talks up unproven drug with fatal side effects as cure for Covid-19"


Edited by lancebr, 08 April 2020 - 10:29 PM.

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#807 Rosanna

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Posted 08 April 2020 - 11:11 PM

Another person on the news is saying that recommendation of zinc is a right wing

media push and there is no evidence that it works.  So this is their new push now

against zinc.

 

I'm aware of some people here in the UK saying that hydroxychloroquine is a right wing media push...


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#808 FSL

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Posted 09 April 2020 - 02:33 AM

Recently I bumped into this article on the web:

 

"Homemade saline solution that could help abate COVID-19"

 

https://baledoneen.c...abate-covid-19/

 

It states the following:

 

“Epithelial cells in the nose and throat produce the substance hypochlorous acid (HOCL). The amount of production is dependent on high levels of chloride. HSNIG provides the necessary chloride to generate concentrations of HCOL to kill viruses enough to mitigate symptoms and the spread to others.”

 

“Recent evidence indicates there is significant replication of COVID-19 in the nose and throat during the first five days of symptoms.”

 
The research it refers to is this one:
 
 
I think if there is a chance to reduce some number of viruses in the nose and throat in the early days, why not.  I am doing it these days, especially if I come home from the outside.


#809 Kalliste

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Posted 09 April 2020 - 04:17 AM

Didier Raoult saying he doubts many vaccines and that the sun is good? (not for Covid maybe but in general if my translation is ok) Is somebody better at french than me. 

 

 

 

C'est un livre qui commence à faire parler de lui. Dans Votre Santé, tous les mensonges qu'on vous raconte et comment la science vous aide à y voir clair (Michel Lafon), le professeur Didier Raoult cherche à démonter quelques mythes médicaux. Selon lui, ces idées seraient entretenues par les médias, notamment dans le cas de la grippe aviaire H1N1 de 2009, ou bien par le corps médical lui-même, qui n'aurait pas suffisamment évolué au fur et à mesure des découvertes.

Chercheur en microbiologie et spécialiste des maladies tropicales émergentes à la faculté de Marseille, Didier Raoult cherche à bousculer certaines théories pourtant bien implantées. Francetv info vous livre quelques-uns de ses arguments. 

L'alcool est bon, à petite dose

"Les personnes qui consomment jusqu'à quatre verres de vin (40 grammes d'alcool) par jour auraient (...) une meilleure espérance de vie que celles qui n'en boivent pas du tout, l'effet le plus favorable étant lié à la consommation de deux verres et demi", explique Didier Raoult dans son livre, cité par Le Point du 30 avril. Il attaque l'Institut national du cancer (Inca) pour qui les dangers liés à l'alcool commenceraient à la première goutte.

Didier Raoult est formel : "En biologie, la notion de seuil n'existe pas. Cela signifie qu'il n'y a pas de quantité d'alcool à partir de laquelle il devient dangereux d'en boire. La seule chose que l'on peut affirmer, c'est qu'il existe un risque grandissant avec la quantité consommée." Mais cette quantité n'est pas la même selon les individus, ce qui empêche de parler de limite universelle à ne pas franchir. "Nous sommes une population hétérogène composée d'individus plus ou moins vulnérables aux effets de l'alcool. Certaines personnes déjà exposées à des cofacteurs cancérogènes, comme le tabac et l'amiante, présentent un risque accru." 

Il est impossible de prédire l'impact d'une épidémie

"On s'évertue à 'modéliser' l'avenir d'après ce que nous savons du passé, mais nous sommes dans des écosystèmes changeants, il ne se passe jamais deux fois la même chose. (...) Aucune des prédictions apocalyptiques sur le Sras [syndrome respiratoire aigu sévère, apparu en 2002 en Chine], la grippe aviaire ou le virus H1N1 ne s'est réalisée", précise Didier Raoult au Point. 

Avec cette déclaration, le professeur cherche à déminer les paniques créées par les médias lors du passage de ces maladies, alors que certaines affections connues mais moins spectaculaires font davantage de victimes. "Même de très prestigieux journaux scientifiques comme Science ou Nature consacrent beaucoup plus d'articles aux dangers nouveaux et spectaculaires qu'aux questions sanitaires de fond", déplore-t-il.

Certains vaccins sont inutiles

Si 80% des Français se disent favorables à la vaccination, les nouveaux vaccins comme celui contre la grippe saisonnière font face à des soupçons grandissants. Pour Didier Raoult, cette méfiance vient aussi du fait que certains d'entre eux sont aujourd'hui superflus. "Il y a des vaccinations obligatoires en France qui sont inutiles. Honnêtement, le vaccin contre la poliomyélite ne sert à rien, sauf si on va dans des endroits où il y a des résidus", explique Didier Raoult au micro de France Inter. Dans Le Point, il va un peu plus loin en affirmant que "certains médecins continuent d'adhérer à des règles établies à une époque où le risque d'épidémie était réel, mais qui ne sont plus justifiées aujourd'hui"

Pour ou contre les vaccins ? Didier Raoult veut examiner les choses autrement et fait un "pari sur l'intelligence". "Ce qu'il faut se demander, c'est si c'est bon pour moi, si c'est justifié à l'heure actuelle, si c'est bon pour la population. Il y a du tri à faire", observe-t-il sur France Inter.   

Le soleil, c'est bon pour la santé

"La seule recommandation valable, selon moi, est d'éviter les coups de soleil à répétition chez les enfants à peau claire", explique Didier Raoult dans son livre. La consommation de crème solaire serait donc presque inutile pour le reste de la population. Pourtant, des études scientifiques sérieuses ont montré que des groupes de personnes utilisant une lotion de protection sont moins sujets à des mélanomes, premiers marqueurs d'un cancer de la peau.

Mais ce n'est pas tout. "Pour le reste, il y a un paradoxe (...), on commence à se rendre compte que des expositions multiples au soleil, quand on a un mélanome, entraînent des mélanomes beaucoup plus bénins. En somme, plus on a pris de soleil, moins le mélanome est grave", détaille-t-il sur le plateau du "Grand Journal" de Canal+. Une étude américaine, diffusée par Sciences et Avenir, menée sur 100 000 femmes pendant vingt ans, avait pourtant montré que cinq coups de soleil graves avant 20 ans suffisaient pour multiplier le risque de mélanome par trois.

Pas de résistance des bactéries aux antibiotiques  

C'est un débat qui agite les cercles médicaux : à force d'utiliser les mêmes antibiotiques, même à haute dose, les bactéries s'adaptent et deviennent résistantes. Aux Etats-Unis, ces "super-bactéries" causeraient la mort de 23 000 personnes chaque année.

Pour Didier Raoult, cette situation n'est qu'une chimère. "Je crois que nous sommes capables de traiter 100% des bactéries, mais à condition de nous servir du spectre très large d'antibiotiques dont nous disposons", affirme le professeur au Point. Il sous-entend notamment que les laboratoires pharmaceutiques stopperaient la commercialisation des molécules tombées dans le domaine public, et qui ne rapporteraient donc plus d'argent.

Or, ce sont ces molécules qui pourraient résoudre le problème. "On a cessé de produire [les médicaments] qui ne rapportent plus d'argent, alors que c'est en variant les molécules et en réintroduisant l'usage d'antibiotiques anciens qu'on évite la résistance", estime-t-il.  

La grippe se traite avec des antibiotiques

"Les antibiotiques, c'est pas automatique." Depuis 2002, cette phrase hante les discussions dès qu'un médicament de ce type est prescrit. A la base de cette affirmation, la preuve scientifique qu'ils ne sont pas utiles pour soigner les virus, dont celui de la grippe.

Mais, comme le souligne Didier Raoult, les surinfections bactériennes, qui peuvent survenir avec la grippe, sont souvent les plus dangereuses. "Le risque, si une grippe perdure au-delà de trois jours, est la survenue d'une surinfection bactérienne respiratoire pouvant entraîner une septicémie en quarante-huit heures. (...) Il est donc erroné de croire qu'une grippe ne se soigne pas avec des antibiotiques ! Dès qu'une grippe persiste plus de trois jours, il faut en prescrire", plaide-t-il. 

Pour étayer son argumentation, Didier Raoult s'appuie sur l'histoire, et notamment celle de la grippe espagnole, qui a sévi entre 1918 et 1919. "On sait maintenant que, parmi les 40 millions de victimes de la grippe espagnole, (...) la plupart sont mortes de surinfections bactériennes." De quoi faire revivre le débat. 

https://www.francetv...lat_894481.html

 

 

What is the source of this quote?

 

It's this Twitter thread:

https://twitter.com/...628906472980482

 

discussing this paper amongst others

https://chemrxiv.org...phyrin/11938173

 

https://archive.is/ONUmi

 

 

2) That little iron ion, along with millions of its friends released from other hemes, are now floating through your blood freely. As I mentioned before, this type of iron ion is highly reactive and causes oxidative damage. It turns out that this happens to a limited extent naturally in our bodies and we have cleanup & defense mechanisms to keep the balance. The lungs, in particular, have 3 primary defenses to maintain “iron homeostasis”, 2 of which are in the alveoli, those little sacs in your lungs we talked about earlier. The first of the two are little macrophages that roam around and scavenge up any free radicals like this oxidative iron. The second is a lining on the walls (called the epithelial surface) which has a thin layer of fluid packed with high levels of antioxidant molecules.. things like abscorbic acid (AKA Vitamin C) among others. Well, this is usually good enough for naturally occurring rogue iron ions but with COVID-19 running rampant your body is now basically like a progressive state letting out all the prisoners out of the prisons… it’s just too much iron and it begins to overwhelm your lungs’ countermeasures, and thus begins the process of pulmonary oxidative stress. This leads to damage and inflammation, which leads to all that nasty stuff and damage you see in CT scans of COVID-19 patient lungs. Ever noticed how it’s always bilateral? (both lungs at the same time) Pneumonia rarely ever does that, but COVID-19 does… EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

 

So how about Pauling levels of vitamin C and intravenous vitamin C  :ph34r: 


Edited by Kalliste, 09 April 2020 - 04:23 AM.

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#810 Dorian Grey

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Posted 09 April 2020 - 04:43 AM

Surfing around on lactoferrin & found this: 

 

https://www.lifeexte.../4/report_lacto

 

there are specific receptors for lactoferrin found on many key immune cells, such as lymphocytes, monocytes and macrophages, and is known to be directly involved in the upregulation of natural killer (NK) cell activity

 

One study called “Lactoferrin and anti-lactoferrin antibodies: Effects of iron loading of lactoferrin on albumin extravasation in different tissues in rats” (Erga KS, Peen E, Tenstad O, Reed RK) found that iron depleted, but not iron saturated, lactoferrin may protect lung tissue during the release of reactive oxygen species. In vivo, only iron-free lactoferrin reduced inflammatory hyperpermeability in the lung tissue of mice and rats.

 

---------------------

 

The study on lung protection is particularly intriguing.  I'm assuming "extravasation" and "hyperpermeability" are referring to secretion of fluids into pulmonary tissues (aka pneumonia)? 

 

Up regulation of NK cells also beneficial.  Aren't these the first responders of the innate immune system that attempt to control new virus while the adaptive immune system is working on creating antibodies?  From what I've seen about COVID, patients with a slow initial immune response are at the greatest danger of developing advanced disease.  

 

I've got a couple of different kinds of lactoferrin (Jarrow & Life Extension) and they are both de-ironed bovine "apolactoferrin".  


Edited by Dorian Grey, 09 April 2020 - 04:47 AM.

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