3083 replies to this topic

[Mind]

America Guidelines on the Treatment and Management of Patients with COVID-19 Infection

Published ,

4/11/2020

COVID-19 Guideline, Part 2: Diagnostics - Coming Soon

COVID-19 Guideline, Part 3: Infection Prevention - Coming Soon

https://www.idsociet...and-management/

 

 

I didn't see zinc included, but maybe I missed it. Anyone else see any reference to zinc?

[Florin]

Helmets might be better than vents, sometimes.

 

UChicago Medicine doctors using helmets to treat COVID-19 patients struggling to breathe

https://abc7chicago....ses-in/6093782/

[albedo]

I didn't see zinc included, but maybe I missed it. Anyone else see any reference to zinc?

 

Not sure this answers but have seen this trial which is maybe a hint, I personally think it is a good addition, e.g in prophylaxis (see also my previous post)

https://clinicaltria...how/NCT04326725

[Dorian Grey]

Was looking at one of resveratrol_guy's twitter links from the previous page from guys treating COVID in the field:

 

https://mobile.twitt...103550570987521

 

the guy is saying it looks like methemoglobinemia to him. 

 

Here's a good explanation of it.  Pay attention around minute 6:44.  At around minute 12, this doc says acetaminophen can cause/contribute to this?  Wow!  Also looks like NAD+ pathway dysfunction likely.  Nicotinamide Riboside potentially therapeutic?  

 

[Dorian Grey]

Sunlight to protect against micro-clotting & hemolysis?  

 

https://holisticprim...r-heard-of.html

 

Like vitamin D--the widely recognized "sunshine vitamin"--sulfate levels depend depend on sun exposure. It is synthesized from sulfide in the skin and red blood cells via a sunlight-dependent chemical reaction.

 

In her research, Seneff identified what she describes as two critical and "mysterious" forms of sulfate: vitamin D3 sulfate and cholesterol sulfate. We simultaneously produce both molecules, which exist in the bloodstream and many other parts of the body, when we're exposed to sunlight.

 

Red blood cells produce cholesterol sulfate, which collects around the exterior of the cells and creates a negatively charged field around them. This aids their smooth passage through tiny capillaries. In essence, the negative charges prevent the cells from getting stuck to each other or to the capillary walls. Cholesterol sulfate also prevents red blood cells from rupturing, a condition known as hemolysis.

 

------------------------

 

Keep in mind, at this time of year (April / Northern Hemisphere) solar UVB rays only reach the earth in a narrow window right around solar noon, which is around 1:PM daylight saving time.  Just 15 minutes full body exposure at solar noon should suffice.  By mid May, this window will be wider (depending on your latitude), but you'll still need to sunbathe (briefly!) between 11:AM & 3:PM (DST) to get a good dose of UVB. Morning or late afternoon sunlight does not provide UVB unless you live in an equatorial region.  You can calculate your local solar noon precisely here:

 

https://www.esrl.noa...d/grad/solcalc/

 

The angle of the sun at solar noon must be greater than 50 degrees in order to get much UVB.  

 

Sunbathing during the day...  Gin & Tonic at night...  This COVID prophylaxis stuff ain't all that bad!  

Edited by Dorian Grey, 12 April 2020 - 10:57 PM.

[thompson92]

inhibiting the COVID-19 main protease (whatever that means).

 

 

3CL-protease is considered to be the 'main' protease in the SARS-CoV family.  It is sometimes called MPro or Main Protease or NSP5 (non-structure protein 5).  Because it is a key active (cystein) protease that is involved in the processing of viral replication, it is an ideal target for inhibitor (protease inhibitors) to stop the virus from transcription and replicating.

 

See: 

 

https://en.wikipedia...0_Endopeptidase

 

 

https://www.nytimes....in-protein.html (NSP5)

 

 

Also:

 

Jo, S., Kim, S., Shin, D., & Kim, M. (2019). Inhibition of SARS-CoV 3CL protease by flavonoids. Journal Of Enzyme Inhibition And Medicinal Chemistry, 35(1), 145-151. doi:10.1080/14756366.2019.1690480

 

Anand, K. (2003). Coronavirus Main Proteinase (3CLpro) Structure: Basis for Design of Anti-SARS Drugs. Science, 300(5626), 1763-1767. doi:10.1126/science.1085658

 

Hsu, M., Kuo, C., Chang, K., Chang, H., Chou, C., & Ko, T. et al. (2005). Mechanism of the Maturation Process of SARS-CoV 3CL Protease. Journal Of Biological Chemistry, 280(35), 31257-31266. doi:10.1074/jbc.m502577200

 

Wang, H., Xue, S., Yang, H., & Chen, C. (2016). Recent progress in the discovery of inhibitors targeting coronavirus proteases. Virologica Sinica, 31(1), 24-30. doi:10.1007/s12250-015-3711-3

the guy is saying it looks like methemoglobinemia to him. 

 

Here's a good explanation of it.  Pay attention around minute 6:44.  At around minute 12, this doc says acetaminophen can cause/contribute to this?  Wow!  Also looks like NAD+ pathway dysfunction likely.  Nicotinamide Riboside potentially therapeutic?  

 

 

 

Methylene Blue.  Hyperbaric/oxygen mask.

Edited by thompson92, 12 April 2020 - 10:48 PM.

[zorba990]

so, based on science and what we gathered so far:

melatonin + bromelain +(liposomal) quercetin + zinc (picolinate)/zinc gluconate lozenges + add some of Dorian's Delicious quinine water = you're all set?

(just don't take zinc and bromelain at the same time, because zinc can inhibit bromelain's activity).

Any thoughts on this guys?

Why not Hesperidin instead of quercetin? There is already a methylated water soluble version.

[Joe Garma]

Appears that you have many of the supplements that support the immune system.

 

I did some research myself on this which led to my article, How To Boost Your Immune System To Fight Viruses Like Coronavirus (Covid-19).

 

One medicinal mushroom I review that has much promise is Agarikon, which mycologist Dr. Paul Stamets is holding below.

 

 

Here's what I wrote about Agarikon:

 

Perhaps the best known and most accomplished mycologist on the planet, Dr. Paul Stamets, has conducted research about the antiviral properties of agarikon with the U.S. Biodefense program, and his findings were supported by scientists from the US Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases (USAMRIID) and the National Institute of Health (NIH). This mushroom, along with chaga, red reishi, and shiitake, fights and prevents the growth of dangerous viruses and bacteria, such as E. Coli, bird flu, and the H5N1 virus.

 

You can go here and see Dr. Stamets discussing Agarikon in a video presented under the subheading "They're called magic mushrooms for a reason"

 

-Joe

 

[joelcairo]

The abstract of the most recent study from Raoult reads "From March 3rd to April 9th, 2020, 59,655 specimens from 38,617 patients were tested for COVID-19 by PCR."

 

April 9th?? Obviously no patients were added to the current results group anywhere near April 9th.

 

Also, "Of the 3,165 positive patients placed in the care of our institute, 1061 previously unpublished patients met our inclusion criteria." The full text of the study hasn't been published, but it will be interesting to see why 2/3 of patients did not meet the study criteria. Because the death rate is so low, it would be easy to inadvertently  eliminate those few percent of the patients who are fated to die.

 

Edited by joelcairo, 13 April 2020 - 03:05 AM.

[thompson92]

The abstract of the most recent study from Raoult reads "From March 3rd to April 9th, 2020, 59,655 specimens from 38,617 patients were tested for COVID-19 by PCR."

 

April 9th?? Obviously no patients were added to the current results group anywhere near April 9th.

 

Also, "Of the 3,165 positive patients placed in the care of our institute, 1061 previously unpublished patients met our inclusion criteria." The full text of the study hasn't been published, but it will be interesting to see why 2/3 of patients did not meet the study criteria. Because the death rate is so low, it would be easy to inadvertently  eliminate those few percent of the patients who are fated to die.

 

If you look at the discussion on pubpeer.com about Raoult's papers, there are a ton of questions and criticisms about how the study was conducted.

[resveratrol_guy]

Methylene Blue.  Hyperbaric/oxygen mask.

 

Here's a good overview of the hyperbaric oxygen therapy (HBOT) approach in light of the current situation. It sounds like a wise approach, especially if applied with low pressure at the first signs of hypoxia. The video mentions that many chambers have been left idle because they're in clinics dedicated to nonemergency therapies. They could in theory be made available to COVID19 patients. I must admit I'm skeptical that the supply of these chambers is anywhere near sufficient, though, in addition to the fact that most of them are probably not located within hospitals.

 

It's more realistic to attack the problem with smaller, cheaper oxygen concentrators, or ECMO in more desperate situations. Ventilators on lower pressure settings might also be helpful, per Dr. Kyle-Sidell.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=Hx4sG2-Ma_Y
 

[resveratrol_guy]

the guy is saying it looks like methemoglobinemia to him. 
 

 

There was an ER doc who reported that his ARDS patients have high PaO2 but low SpO2, which according to your tutorial video would be consistent with methemoglobinemia. Can't seem to find it at the moment, but these are routine measurements so the data is probably available.

 

The question is, if this is the case, then why is Fe(2+) being converted to Fe(3+)? Is it simply that Fe(2+) is becoming pervasively unbound as a side effect of viral replication, then oxidizing intact hemoglobin into the latter? I don't know, but maybe it doesn't matter if we can somehow remove the Fe(2+) ASAP.

 

Could we take an approach used for heavy metal binding, for instance, using EDTA, C60 oil, lipidated curcumin, alpha lipoic acid, etc. (assuming that we can't just give ferritin itself)? (This might also explain success with megadose IV vitamin C if it stands up to statistics.) And simultaneously stop exacerbating the problem with Tylenol, for that matter. (I realize that ibuprophen was rumored to be unsafe as well. Not sure if that's well reasoned, or not.)

[Izan]

Holy S!

 

Our theory has been proven on the ground guys!

 

 

So there was this Dutch GP doctor who treated 8 Covid-19 patients with HCQ + Azithromycin + Zinc. They were all symptom free within 48 hours. Dutch government officials ordered him to stop this treatment at once, because he was not authorized to treat them in this way (they were not treated in a hospital).

 

 

He then got a call from an ICU doctor working in the university hospital in Utrecht (one of the best in the Netherlands) and he told the GP that the only two things you need to successfully treat Covid-19 patients are a high dose of zinc PLUS quercetin. According to this ICU doctor (and the brilliant minds on this forum! thank you all so much!) quercetin has the exact same properties as HCQ, an extreme potent ionophore ready to penetrate infected cells to transport zinc into them and to 'kill' covid-19, but with zero side effects. Zinc is the most crucial element here, because they found out (like Dorian and I have been theorizing for many months now :D) that the elderly and people with underlying health conditions have very low levels of zinc and when they get infected these levels drop even more ---> immune system into overdrive trying to compensate but not having the right tools --> overreaction --> cytokine storm = organ failure = death.

 

They now say that the weak should start supplementing with zinc and quercetin asap.

 

 

Zinc plus Quercetin, that's it. No need for HCQ/Azithromycin who both can put a lot of stress on the heart.

 

Zinc + Quercetin + (Bromelain to counter bradykinin, but mostly when cytokine storm is starting to damage organs.) = Eureka?  plus some gin tonic in the evening because why the hell not!

 

 

I translated the article from Dutch into English.General practitioner who "cured" patients from corona:

 

"We don't have time to do five months of research"

 

 

 

 

MEIJEL - The Limburg GP Rob Elens saw a large number of patients from his village practice die of Covid-19 in a short time. He sought therapy and, in his own words, found an effective mix of medicines. "Healed ten corona patients." Then the inspection intervened: Elens had to stop the experimental treatment. "While we work on a battlefield. Extremely frustrating. ”

 

"What we do now is battlefield medicine, it is a battlefield," says Limburg doctor Rob Elens.

"What we do now is battlefield medicine, it is a battlefield," says Limburg GP Rob Elens.

It started about four weeks ago. "We saw a huge increase in very sick patients," says GP Rob Elens (58). “In a short time, twelve people who were corona positive died. At its lowest point, we saw twenty corona patients a day. An 82-year-old lady, who was never ill, just a vital elderly woman who still did everything herself, just collapsed. She died within two days. That is intense though. I thought, there must be something we can do in primary care? ”

Elens, a Rotterdammer in Limburg, went looking for and found what he says was an effective mix of medicines. There is much to do internationally about one of these medicines - the antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine. President Trump praised it after hearing that doctors had success with it. And Trump's French colleague Macron went on an inspection in Marseille last week to a doctor, who claims to have cured a large number of corona patients with the drug.

 

Clinical tests

That open support came to the presidents with disapproving responses. Hydroxychloroquine, which is also used in rheumatism, has not yet proven itself in clinical trials, critics say, and it is said to have serious side effects in a number of cases. In addition, research demonstrating the success of hydroxychloroquine in the fight against corona would be substandard, the International Society of Antimicrobial Chemotherapy said.

 

 

"Group immunity is a fairy tale"

These side effects are not so bad, claims Rob Elens, according to the Pharmacotherapeutic Compass. "Heart rhythm disturbances can occur in 0.01 percent of the cases." He understands the critics, "but what we do now is battlefield medicine, it's a battlefield." "Mankind is at war with that virus and in my opinion there could be different rules than in peacetime. We don't have time to do five months of research. 130 people die every day in the Netherlands from covid-19. In five months' time, if it goes on, we will be twenty thousand dead. Everyone now infects another until the whole of the Netherlands is infected or - hopefully - has been vaccinated. In the meantime, you are losing a lot of people. ”

 

Elens previously worked in circumstances in which he had to improvise. "I was a tropical doctor in Malawi. This is also where my experience with hydroxychloroquine comes from. I know the drug very well, have often prescribed it as an anti-malarial drug. ”

 

High doses of zinc

It is the combination of hydroxychloroquine - a cheap drug that is simply available at pharmacies - with a high dose of zinc and the antibiotic azithromycin that helped Elens, in collaboration with his pharmacist, say he. “I was pointed out to New York physician Vladimir Zelenko, who recommended the drug online. That doctor in Marseille and Chinese doctors also achieved results. Around six thousand doctors worldwide prescribe this drug at Covid-19, also in the Netherlands. ”

 

"Get younger people back to work"

Especially the combination with zinc is crucial, according to Elens. "Half of the elderly have a zinc deficiency, as do diabetics and people with high blood pressure. What happens with Covid-19 is that at some point the immune system goes crazy; it radically attacks the body - the lungs - causing everything to break and you also have organ failure. You can prevent this cytokine storm, as it is called, with high doses of zinc that inhibit the reproduction of the virus. So you can be ahead of that storm as a general practitioner by giving people who are moderately to seriously ill, such as the patients I saw, with that medication. The sooner you use it, the better. ”

 

Rapid heartbeat

Elen's patients had different characteristics. "All older than 60 years and / or short of breath, with a fast heartbeat, an audible abnormality on the lungs and high fever: 39 degrees and higher. All tested positive. ”

 

He saw the seriously ill healed after two or three days, says Elens. "Eight people recovered quickly, the fever disappeared and they became active again. Two remained ill: one was found to have heart failure and the other had a bacterial infection

 

They recovered with other medicines and were subsequently tested negative for corona. ”

 

After regional media focused on Elen's approach, he received a call from the Healthcare and Youth Inspectorate (IGJ). "I was told that hydroxychloroquine should not be prescribed against Covid-19 in regular care. So I quit. Very frustrating. I am also shocked by all the fuss. ”

 

 

"Inspection forces Limburg GP to stop with corona mix"

How can he be sure that his drug cocktail healed the patients? "You can never say that with certainty, but I notice that they got better quickly. And they were subsequently tested negative. ”

 

not registered

Rob Elens sees himself as a real village doctor. "I am a general practitioner who stands up for his patients. If they get into trouble, I will stand in front of them. ”

 

It is painful that he cannot help his patients now, says Elens. "My pharmacist and I prescribed this drug off-label; this means that you use a medicine for individual patients that is not registered for the complaints concerned. That happens so often. What should we do differently? With paracetamol, which we now prescribe, you will not save corona patients. ”

 

 

 

Dangerous pulmonary embolism in a large proportion of corona patients

A Utrecht IC doctor tipped him last week that he is achieving good results with a mix of zinc with the antioxidant quercetin. Rob Elens: “An investigation is now underway. Quercetin has a similar effect to hydroxychloroquine. I'm trying it out now. Perhaps we could use this combination as a preventive measure in care homes, where so many people die. Either way, we should try to protect residents and staff from the virus. ”

 

Response of the Health and Youth Inspectorate:

 

"General practitioner and pharmacist acted contrary to the treatment guidelines. There is no proven cure for Covid-19 yet, and the way the GP experimented is not according to the guidelines. Hydroxychloroquine should not be prescribed in regular care against coronavirus contamination, otherwise there is a shortage of people who really need it. ”

 

 

https://www.telegraa...derzoek-te-doen

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[joelcairo]

Here's a good overview of the hyperbaric oxygen therapy (HBOT) approach in light of the current situation. It sounds like a wise approach, especially if applied with low pressure at the first signs of hypoxia. The video mentions that many chambers have been left idle because they're in clinics dedicated to nonemergency therapies. They could in theory be made available to COVID19 patients. I must admit I'm skeptical that the supply of these chambers is anywhere near sufficient, though, in addition to the fact that most of them are probably not located within hospitals.

 

It's more realistic to attack the problem with smaller, cheaper oxygen concentrators, or ECMO in more desperate situations. Ventilators on lower pressure settings might also be helpful, per Dr. Kyle-Sidell.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=Hx4sG2-Ma_Y
 

 

At one point last week I read that there's even a shortage of oxygen in hospitals if you can imagine that. It may just be one type of oxygen source used in ventilators, not sure.

[joelcairo]

Don't forget bioavailability is a large but not insurmountable problem with flavonoids including quercetin. Ways to increase absorption of flavonoids in general include consuming with lipids/oils, NOT consuming along with any protein, consuming with vitamin C or sugar so as to stabilize the molecule, and eating them in the form of a natural food source (onions).

 

 

... Just remembered there;s a form of it called dihydroquercetin which is supposedly much more bioavailable. Swanson sells it with the old-timey patent medicine name "Dr. Stephen Langer's Russian Rejuvenator".

Edited by joelcairo, 13 April 2020 - 02:59 PM.

[Daniel Cooper]

Don't forget bioavailability is a large but not insurmountable problem with flavonoids including quercetin. Ways to increase absorption of flavonoids in general include not consuming along with any protein, consuming with vitamin C or sugar so as to stabilize the molecule, and eating them in the form of a natural food source (onions).

 

Enzymatically Modified Iso Quercetin (EMIQ) is a huge step in the direction of improving bioavailability.  

[xEva]

There was an ER doc who reported that his ARDS patients have high PaO2 but low SpO2, which according to your tutorial video would be consistent with methemoglobinemia. Can't seem to find it at the moment, but these are routine measurements so the data is probably available.

 

The question is, if this is the case, then why is Fe(2+) being converted to Fe(3+)? Is it simply that Fe(2+) is becoming pervasively unbound as a side effect of viral replication, then oxidizing intact hemoglobin into the latter? I don't know, but maybe it doesn't matter if we can somehow remove the Fe(2+) ASAP.

 

Could we take an approach used for heavy metal binding, for instance, using EDTA, C60 oil, lipidated curcumin, alpha lipoic acid, etc. (assuming that we can't just give ferritin itself)? (This might also explain success with megadose IV vitamin C if it stands up to statistics.) And simultaneously stop exacerbating the problem with Tylenol, for that matter. (I realize that ibuprophen was rumored to be unsafe as well. Not sure if that's well reasoned, or not.)

 

Methylene blue IV is traditionally used for methemoglobinemia.

 

Methylene Blue acts by reacting within RBC to form leukomethylene blue, which is a reducing agent of oxidized hemoglobin converting the ferric ion (fe+++) back to its oxygen carrying ferrous state(fe++). Dose commonly used is 1-2mg/kg of 1% Methylene Blue solution.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3087269/

[Hebbeh]

https://www.zdnet.co...critical-cases/

 

NYU scientists: Largest U.S. study of COVID-19 finds obesity the single biggest factor in New York’s hospitalizations

 

Doctors at NYU Langone Health center conducted the largest study so far of U.S. hospital admissions for COVID-19, focused on New York City. They found obesity, along with age, was the biggest deciding factor in hospital admissions, which may suggest the role of hyper-inflammatory reactions that can happen in those with the disease.

 

For months, scientists have been poring over data about cases and deaths to understand why it is that COVID-19 manifests itself in different ways around the world, with certain factors such as the age of the population repeatedly popping up as among the most significant determinants.

 

Now, one of the largest studies conducted of COVID-19 infection in the United States has found that obesity of patients was the single biggest factor in whether those with COVID-19 had to be admitted to a hospital.

 

"The chronic condition with the strongest association with critical illness was obesity, with a substantially higher odds ratio than any cardiovascular or pulmonary disease," write lead author Christopher M. Petrilli of the NYU Grossman School and colleagues in a paper, "Factors associated with hospitalization and critical illness among 4,103 patients with Covid-19 disease in New York City," which was posted April 11th on the medRxiv pre-print server. The paper has not been peer-reviewed, which should be kept in mind in considering its conclusions. ............

 

Obesity is generally known to be associated with inflammation. As the NYU authors observe, "Obesity is well-recognized to be a pro-inflammatory condition." They focus on the inflammation aspect because it has been cited in several studies as being a possible factor in COVID-19, in particular, inflammations that seem to be in a hyper-activated state. But it's not entirely clear what role it plays.

 

"Hyperinflammatory states are well described in severe sepsis," the authors note, "however, the degree to which Covid-19 related inflammation is similar to or different than that typically found in sepsis is unknown."

 

Without drawing conclusions, they note that previous studies have shown that patients with COVID-19 have displayed blood clotting, or "hypercoagulability," in the form of thrombosis and embolisms.  .........

Edited by Hebbeh, 13 April 2020 - 04:23 PM.

[Dorian Grey]

izan82 wins the prize again today!  Well done lad!  

 

Back in the early pages of this thread lancebr asked about the safety of high dose quercetin.  I've done a lot of research on Q due to my iron chelation fetish.  One of the puzzling aspects of Q is that the half-life in the body is remarkably short.  If Q is so great, why does the body dispose of it so quickly?  My thought (unsupported) was that the benefit from Q might occur quite swiftly and perhaps there might indeed be detrimental effects from prolonged high levels.  One thing that came to mind is that Q is a "Thiamine Antagonist" (interferes with absorption or digestion of thiamine).  

 

http://helid.digicol...s2900e/8.2.html

 

Interestingly, fever tends to increase thiamine utilization, and anorexia (common with fever & illness) can result in development of thiamine deficiency quite quickly.  A sudden/acute thiamine deficiency can produce a variety of unusual symptoms (anosmia, arrhythmia, seizures, low BP & extreme fatigue).  This strikes me as potentially associated with the "second week crump", where COVID patients deteriorate rapidly if they don't pull out of the initial stage of the disease.  Patients get sick and stop eating well, develop a high fever which drags on for a week, become deficient in thiamine, & the wheels come off.  Don't know if they supplement thiamine on ventilated patients, but if they don't after a week on a vent with a high fever, you'd be down to zilch. 

 

I've liked quercetin for a long time, but I don't take it in low doses with every meal as I do many of my other supps.  I like to pulse it once per day, perhaps twice for COVID, but be very careful about taking it with every meal, as this will sabotage thiamine uptake, & fever is known to increase utilization.  Other anti-thiamines include coffee & tea (polyphenols in general). Chloroquine (& perhaps quinine) also appears to interact with thiamine.  YIKES!  

 

https://journals.plo...al.pgen.1003083

 

"CQ completely inhibited a human thiamine transporter (SLC19A3) expressed in yeast and significantly inhibited thiamine uptake in cultured human cell lines"

 

"our results suggest that thiamine deficiency might be a root cause of some of CQ's adverse effects, which might be preventable with concomitant dietary thiamine supplementation. Such a MOA by CQ could also be responsible for its therapeutic effects against malarial parasites, which need exogenous thiamine for survival. Such a possibility needs to be investigated before dietary thiamine supplementation can be used to prevent CQ's adverse effects."

 

"These results together suggested that CQ likely inhibits at least three independent biological processes in yeast: vacuolar functions, iron homeostasis, and thiamine metabolism or thiamine-dependent functions."

 

Alcohol also inhibits thiamine uptake as well as utilization & most daily drinkers are chronically/marginally deficient.  Quitting alcohol suddenly increases glutamate excitotoxicity in the brain, which rapidly burns through thiamine reserves.  Wernicke's encephalopathy and Korsakoff's psychosis associated with chronic alcoholism are known to manifest during alcohol withdrawal, even more-so than from chronic alcohol use.  Heavy drinkers would be wise to taper back to a nightcap at most until this plague ends.  

 

For the above reasons, I'd be very careful with high dose Q taken multiple times per day, particularly if you're sick & not eating well, or if you tipple a bit but quit when you become ill.  Thiamine deficiency can develop very quickly, and if acute will probably complicate COVID disease.  A thiamine supplement or B-Complex will probably state it provides several thousand times your minimum daily requirement, but thiamine is poorly absorbed @ around 1-2mg max per meal or supplement (zero absorption with polyphenol/quercetin!).  If you're going to try and supplement thiamine, multiple small doses are the best way to go.  

 

When it comes to quercetin, one or two pulses per day would probably be wise, & make darn sure you get at least one thiamine rich meal/day with no polyphenols, coffee or tea.  

Edited by Dorian Grey, 13 April 2020 - 05:16 PM.

[sciack]

How much elemental zinc is in 200 mg of zinc sulphate ? Roughly 50%?

[Kalliste]

First sign of symtoms:

NAC

Nicotine gums

CBD-oil

Sit down in the sun with a cigarette and gin & tonic

Bottle of water with 10g of ascorbic acid

Melatonin 20mg every 4 hours

Eat an entire pineapple

Drink green tea

[davejam]

How much elemental zinc is in 200 mg of zinc sulphate ? Roughly 50%?

 

It depends on what 'Zinc Sulfate' really means (anhydrous, monohydrate, heptahydrate,...). 

One product online claimed 200mg Zinc sulfate = 45mg elemental Zn...so that one is heptahydrate.

Also the bio availability of that form is worse ~40%.  So maybe its providing ~20mg.  That should be a decent daily dose.

[Rosanna]

First sign of symtoms:

NAC

Nicotine gums

CBD-oil

Sit down in the sun with a cigarette and gin & tonic

Bottle of water with 10g of ascorbic acid

Melatonin 20mg every 4 hours

Eat an entire pineapple

Drink green tea

 

Can you tell me what NAC is thought to do?

 

What about in the later stages, when virus may be over but productive cough?  Which is where I'm at.  I've got some NAC on the shelf and could try it...   Just aiming to push this in the right direction of recovery.

 

 

(cigarette and gin and tonic in the sun, lol)

[Dorian Grey]

New guide for do-it-yourself hydro-thermal therapy for immune system stimulation/enhancement.  

 

https://www.hydro4covid.com/

 

I always thought you had to lie in a hot bath to bump your core temperature before you did the cold shock with the shower at the end, but this PT has an easier way.  

 

Think I'll try this on my girlfriend before I do it myself.  

[pamojja]

do-it-yourself hydro-thermal therapy for immune system..

 

Last whole week we had amazing sun-shine here. Therefore my protocol for 2 hours daly was: Sunbathing for sweating, swimming in very cold river water, an then back in the sun.
 

[lancebr]

Am I being a little too conspiratorial? It seems like this is kind-of a hit piece on hydroxychloroquine (for political reasons): https://www.bloomber...omoted-by-trump

 

It is something to keep an eye on of course. They reported 4 deaths linked to "treatments for coronavirus", but the article suspiciously doesn't specifically say what the treatments were in those 4 incidents.

 

Were the heart incidents or death's even from Raoult's trial? It is not clear from the article. Raoult himself reports no cardiac toxicity.

 

Also, it would be expected that people with severe COVID-19 and low on oxygen would be at greater risk to having "heart incidents", right?

 

In addition they say there was a total of 82 "serious" incidents, that were split between hydroxychloroquine and other anti-retroviral drugs, but again don't give a number (although one might suspect it was 43, mentioned earlier in the article)

 

They also randomly throw in the fact that there were cases of hydroxychloroquine poisoning in Nigeria. Overdoses probably. From negligent use?

 

It is from "Bloomberg" news, and people in the U.S. might recall Mike Bloomberg is a bitter enemy of President Trump.

 

I guess I am just suspicious that a couple of days after Raoult shows some encouraging results, a news service run by the president's political rival brings forth this negative story with a blaring political headline.

 

If Raoult's treatment lowers the elderly fatality rate from 20% down to 0.5%, it still seems like a huge win, even if there were a small number of "heart incidents".

 

Actually after seeing the  MSM news tonight I don't think you're being too conspiratorial.  I noticed on two different channels of the

MSM they have been reporting that there is a Brazil study showing that 11 people died from the treatment that Trump is touting.

They had doctors on there that were saying this is proof that the treatment Trump is pushing is dangerous and people should not

be depending on it to help them.

 

When I heard that I went and looked up this study and as usual the MSM is not telling all the facts of the study. 

 

They did not clarify or tell the audience the following two points....1) the drug used in the study was Chloroquine not Hydroxychloroquine

that the President has talked about recently.  And they do not mention that the drug Chloroquine has more severe side effects compared

to hydroxychloroquine.  2) They do not say anything about the study specifically stating that the doctors used a "high dose" of

600 mg twice a day of Chloroquine for 10 days.  That is 12 grams in 10 days which is extremely high of a dose to be taking.

 

https://www.livescie...o-comments-2011

 

 

 

Edited by lancebr, 14 April 2020 - 05:28 AM.

[albedo]

https://www.bmj.com/...68/bmj.m1206/rr

 

Comment to BMJ pointing out the value of HSPG role in coronaviruses attachment to cells prior to entry via ACE2.  I'm still mystified as to how lactoferrin and heparin isn't getting much excitement.  I know it's been mentioned in prior comments in this thread and we don't have definitive data showing its interference with this strain of virus.  But I'm taking it daily and it's at the top of my list.

 

Any better take from the team now on heparin?

Looks like positive results at first symptoms and to lower number of serious admission (~-25%?) to hospital. This is an article about an Italian MD using it and also from AIFA (Italian Pharmacological Agency). Autopsies have shown massive thrombosis. Use google for translation:

https://www.lanazion...-cure-1.5101478

https://www.aifa.gov...a3-10cbd5354fc3

[resveratrol_guy]

Remdesivir resulted in 68% of hospitalized trial patients improving. This is unfortunately close to the current US exit survival ratio of 61% (Worldometers). Nevertheless phase 3 is proceeding.

[resveratrol_guy]

 

He saw the seriously ill healed after two or three days, says Elens. "Eight people recovered quickly, the fever disappeared and they became active again. Two remained ill: one was found to have heart failure and the other had a bacterial infection

 

They recovered with other medicines and were subsequently tested negative for corona. ”

 

Interesting, but I wish we could get a larger sample size. It's troublesome to try to combine all these little studies, if for no other reason than that they're all slightly different in design.

 

Nevertheless there is a small amount of information in recovery latency, and the stage from which one recovers. Healing 10 of 10 "seriously ill" patients sounds promising, especially in the Netherlands, which, on last check, had an exit survival ratio so low that I concluded it must be a misprint. (Then I saw the UK, and realized that rigid, centrally run medicine is capable of unfathomable levels of incompetence.)

 

But the naysayers will ignore those sources of information and just look at the sample size. They'll point out that "10 is small" and throw it in the garbage.

 

I'm quite sanguine about quercetin with zinc because it's totally legal in every jurisdiction, to my knowledge. Please continue to expose whatever you can dig up about studies here and there using this "Utrecht protocol". There's still too much room for systematic error, most notably the probability that a small number of clinicians are doing a poor job of reporting patient condition and outcomes. In this sense, clinician sample size is probably more important than patient sample size in any one study.

[resveratrol_guy]

Here is a short Reddit thread including some guy who has been taking quercetin, EGCG, and zinc. Apparently he was aware of this approach several weeks ago, which I find impressive. It gives some idea of the issues that he's encountered, none of which particularly concerning (except for the part about the woman who perhaps died of COVID19 right in front of him). One consideration is just to avoid taking zinc on an empty stomach. Personally, I pour out the powder from the caplet into a bottle of juice, shake vigorously, then drink. (It's not particularly hydrophilic, which is challenging.) But if you're not a fan of carbosis, I suppose you could dissolve it in olive oil.