3083 replies to this topic

[xEva]

First trial for potential Covid-19 drug shows it has no effect

 

WHO draft put online states Remdesivir does not benefit severe coronavirus patients

 

https://www.theguard...d-in-full-trial

 

if I learned anything new lately  that would be: treat viral infections asap.

 

If this is a common knowledge for a virologist, why is the time and money being wasted on current trials of the sickest? Who comes up with the guidelines, specialists or bureaucrats?

 

I have not been much of a conspiracies buff but the latest developments are beyond bizarre. Although, is it conspiracy or just stupidity?


 

[lancebr]

strokes in young people!

There have been already posts about this, but this piece in wapo is alarming. Some excerpts:

 

 

Young and middle-aged people, barely sick with covid-19, are dying from strokes

 

Doctors sound alarm about patients in their 30s and 40s left debilitated or dead. Some didn’t even know they were infected.

 

The analyses suggest coronavirus patients are mostly experiencing the deadliest type of stroke. Known as large vessel occlusions, or LVOs, they can obliterate large parts of the brain responsible for movement, speech and decision-making in one blow because they are in the main blood-supplying arteries.

Many researchers suspect strokes in covid-19 patients may be a direct consequence of blood problems that are producing clots all over some people’s bodies.

 

“We are used to thinking of 60 as a young patient when it comes to large vessel occlusions,” Raz said of the deadliest strokes. “We have never seen so many in their 50s, 40s and late 30s.”

Raz wondered whether they are seeing more young patients because they are more resistant than the elderly to the respiratory distress caused by covid-19: “So they survive the lung side, and in time develop other issues.”

 

Brain clots usually appear in the arteries, which carry blood away from the heart. But in covid-19 patients, he is also seeing them in the veins, which carry blood in the opposite direction and are trickier to treat. Some patients are also developing more than one large clot in their heads, which is highly unusual.

 

“We’ll be treating a blood vessel and it will go fine, but then the patient will have a major stroke” because of a clot in another part of the brain, he said.

 

The covid-19 patients treated for stroke at Mount Sinai were younger and mostly without risk factors. On average, the covid-19 stroke patients were 15 years younger than stroke patients without the virus. “These are people among the least likely statistically to have a stroke,” Mocco said.

 

 

 

 

Saw a news story on a local channel about a 33 yr old guy who got Covid and had breathing issues

so went to the hospital and he was admitted and given oxygen and monitored for two days.  He was

about to be released because he seem to get better and then he had a massive stroke and died.

 

This virus is doing much more damage than just the lungs.

 

 

[Gal220]

And don't even think about grains, whole or not.

  

See what you think about Eikhorn sourdough bread - https://thehealthbea...ourdough-bread/    and  https://thehealthbea...go-gluten-free/

[xEva]

re blood clotting and hydroxychloroquine. First on google:

 

Hydroxychloroquine has anti-inflammatory effects and also inhibits platelet clumping, which is a key step in blood clot formation. There is evidence to suggest this drug may help reduce the blood clotting effects of aPL in mice and also decrease the risk of blood clots in SLE patients.Apr 16, 2019

https://www.hss.edu/...-treatments.asp
Antiphospholipid Syndrome and Potential New Treatments ...

 

plus an unexpected find: Antiphospholipid Syndrome (APS) is a systemic autoimmune disease characterized by production of antibodies – antiphospholipid antibodies (aPL) – that “attack” the person’s own body, resulting in blood clots

 

What if covid-19 provokes a similar immune response in otherwise healthy people?

[resveratrol_guy]

See what you think about Eikhorn sourdough bread - https://thehealthbea...ourdough-bread/    and  https://thehealthbea...go-gluten-free/

 

If I had to eat grains, I'd choose teff, bulgar wheat, couscous, or barley. But grains are awful if for no other reason that they supply literally nothing that you can't get from fruits and veggies which also supply beneficial polyphenols. They mess up your gut bacteria, make your breath stink, rot your teeth, and predispose you to dementia. Fair question, but no thanks, gluten or not!

[bladedmind]

Sounds like you are arguing on behalf of the me, me, me millennial generation, a stereotype whose focus is solely on the individual self, and on any gains the individual can obtain just for themselves.

 

No.  I made my point quickly, because verging on off-topic, and this will be my last comment about it.  I’m not advocating egoism, not against sacrifice for others.  The problem with utilitarianism is that it would require us to kill an innocent against his will and harvest his organs in order to save five ailing people.  Is that OK?  Of course, we should care for others beyond ourselves, but to meaningfully consent to an extraordinary sacrifice, one should be fully informed.  These ethicists were arguing for suppressing information about potential benefits of therapeutics in order to dupe people into controlled trials.  Also, they would put purity of research ahead of therapeutic duty.  That doesn’t sound to me like wider transcendental consciousness which focuses on all humanity.

[resveratrol_guy]

Several pithy videos today...

 

Ivermectin is killing it, if this well-designed-but-observational study is any clue. Too bad it's cheap and widely available. It will likely run out of supply or get banned soon. Hopefully my pessimism is unwarranted. Do be aware that the veteranary version isn't manufactured to the same standards as the human version (but I don't know if that matters). And overdose can result in total paralysis. But in a proper medical setting, it seems like a game changer.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=8Z1Oc4_99sk

 

The HCQ side effect paranoia is based on something other than numbers. I can't wait til the zinc studies are finished, assuming of course that they don't get shut down because the FDA is flipping out over it.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=rN_YpFhdii4

 

This guy has a great summary of all the various COVID19 drugs currently under analysis. He trashes HCQ pretty badly, but adds that zinc is still an open question, so at least he's balanced.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=xBWaWqXZgko

 

And finally, I think the jury is still out on Remdesivir. The leaked results are all over the map, and tainted with rumor and political agenda. I wish Gilead well, especially since they've offered to supply a substantial amount of it for free.

 

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 25 April 2020 - 04:34 PM.

[Gal220]

 He was about to be released because he seem to get better and then he had a massive stroke and died.

 

This virus is doing much more damage than just the lungs.

 

Blood clots were discussed recently in this thread, leading to some amputation even.

 

I would take matters into my own hands and start taking nattokinase(often sold with serrapeptase) immediately if you become symptomatic, there are many formulations amazon.

 

https://drjohnday.co...-blood-thinner/

https://www.nature.c...icles/srep11601

https://www.rejuvena...com/nattokinase

 

 

Anyone who has heart issues should take the time to read through - https://www.drsinatra.com/ , especially this page - https://www.drsinatr...or-heart-health

[Gal220]

Oh my God you've got to see this: https://www.medscape...D=2358882&faf=1

 

Medscape: FDA Warns Against Hydroxychloroquine Use Outside of Hospital

 

Look at the comments!  These are all medical professionals, & the vast majority (90%+) are astonished with the FDA ban on outpatient HCQ.  

 

I really hope they turn to quercetin as an alternative, as the Arizona state video showed(3rd post page 40), it is an Ace2 inhibitor(prevention), zinc ionophore(replication), and down regulates NLRP3 inflammation(lung damage).

 

There are already people trying to track its success rate -

 

https://twitter.com/ScarofOdysseus

https://threadreader...4398954497.html

[hotbit]

Zero cost Covid-19 prevention

 

Hypertension, diabetes-2 and renal failure & heart disease are top covid-19 co-morbidities.

https://www.statista...ients-in-italy/

 

It seems there are two free of charge substances that can prevent illness from development. It is worth to note, that people with proper homoeostasis are fairly immune to SARS-CoV-2 (children, young people and healthy individuals below 50 and over 50).

 

 

Oxygen. (Breathing)

 

Depleting CO2 from blood is leading to blood pH level elevation. I suspect homoeostatic balance is being knocked out of balance, which triggers physiological reactions to bring homoeostasis back to equilibrium.

Slow breathing exercises decrease BP.

 

Example exercises.

 

1) Hyperventilation

(For example: lay down, take 20 fluent, but fast and deep breaths; exhale and stay without air for ~20s or as long as comfortable; inhale and keep breath for 10-20s, as long as comfortable.)

 

2) Slow breathing

Slowly inhale for minimum 5s, then slowly exhale for min 5 s. Repeat 10 times.

 

Breathing-control lowers blood pressure.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/11319675

 

Effect of alternate nostril breathing exercise on blood pressure, heart rate, and rate pressure product among patients with hypertension in JIPMER, Puducherry

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC6691618/

Hypertension can be reduced by following simple alternate nostril breathing regularly.

 

Slow breathing had a stronger effect than fast breathing. BP decreased longitudinally over a 3-month period with both interventions. S/L ratio, 30:15 ratio, E/I ratio, and BP response in the hand grip and cold pressor test showed significant change only in patients practicing the slow-breathing exercise.
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/19534616

 

Collectively, these findings provide compelling evidence for the upregulation of ACE2, the vasoprotective enzyme of RAS, by acute regional hypoxia in HSPCs.

https://www.fasebj.o...upplement.695.6

 

Breathing exercises impact BP, blood pH, but also ACE/ACE2 dynamics. ACE2 is regarded as a key enzyme in the process of infection.

"ACE2 is also critical in protecting people during various types of lung injury," notes Ordovas-Montanes. "When ACE2 comes up, that's usually a productive response. But since the virus uses ACE2 as a target, we speculate that it might be exploiting that normal protective response."
https://medicalxpres...t-defenses.html

 

 

Hydroxychloroquine accumulation in human organelles also raise their pH, which inhibits antigen processing, prevents the alpha and beta chains of the major histocompatibility complex (MHC) class II from dimerizing, inhibits antigen presentation of the cell, and reduces the inflammatory response.[...]

https://www.drugbank.ca/drugs/DB01611

 

While reduced CO2 blood level and elevated O2 level increase blood pH, I don't know whether it has an impact on inner structures pH, like organelles mentioned above. (Requires further research).

 

To summarize, air & proper breathing exercises might be regarded as a free and effective way to improve immune system.

 

Water. Cold exposure.

(To be continued)

 

 

 

[lancebr]

Several pithy videos today...

 

Ivermectin is killing it, if this well-designed-but-observational study is any clue. Too bad it's cheap and widely available. It will likely run out of supply or get banned soon. Hopefully my pessimism is unwarranted. Do be aware that the veteranary version isn't manufactured to the same standards as the human version (but I don't know if that matters). And overdose can result in total paralysis. But in a proper medical setting, it seems like a game changer.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=8Z1Oc4_99sk

 

 

Where did you hear that an overdose can cause total paralysis.  I have not been able to find any information

concerning that in reference to humans.  There are some dogs of certain breeds that it can cause seizures due

to them having a certain genetic issue with the drug. 

 

If you find the right brand of veterinary Ivermectin some of them have FDA approved marked on the packaging.

It is the exact same ingredient that is used in the human pills just in a gel base for easier use in animals.

 

Also if you read the many reviews on Amazon and other forums there are years of posts from people that have used

the veterinarian type for human use, for worms or scabies, with no issues since it is the exact same drug used in

the formulation.

 

Ivermectin is starting to look like it may be useful for cases that might be more serious and don't respond to Hydroxychlororquine.

Edited by lancebr, 25 April 2020 - 05:47 PM.

[Hip]

No.  I made my point quickly, because verging on off-topic, and this will be my last comment about it.  I’m not advocating egoism, not against sacrifice for others.  The problem with utilitarianism is that it would require us to kill an innocent against his will and harvest his organs in order to save five ailing people.  Is that OK?  Of course, we should care for others beyond ourselves, but to meaningfully consent to an extraordinary sacrifice, one should be fully informed.  These ethicists were arguing for suppressing information about potential benefits of therapeutics in order to dupe people into controlled trials.  Also, they would put purity of research ahead of therapeutic duty.  That doesn’t sound to me like wider transcendental consciousness which focuses on all humanity.

 

I am not really following what you are saying about "suppressing information about potential benefits of therapeutics in order to dupe people into controlled trials". Perhaps you can explain that bit.

 

But I don't see criticism of randomized controlled trials (RCT) as valid. These are the only reliable way to determine whether a medication is efficacious or not, and whether the medication has dangerous side effects or not. Virtually every beneficial medication that we use today to save life and treat disease was originally proved efficacious in an RCT. 

 

Whenever a medication has potential or promise for treating a disease, it would be unethical not to put it through an RCT, because a positive result in an RCT is the only way the medical profession as a whole will start using that medication to treat the disease. And RCT may involve hundreds of people, but a positive from the RCT result will benefit millions.

 

Patients themselves must decide whether they want to participate in an RCT. No patients are ever forced to join an RCT. New drug treatments can be harmful as well as helpful, so there's the chance of gain, but also the risk of side effects or getting worse.

Edited by Hip, 25 April 2020 - 06:06 PM.

[zorba990]

https://www.research...apor_Inhalation

Possibility of Disinfection of SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) in Human Respiratory Tract by Controlled Ethanol Vapor Inhalation

Viruses such as SARS-CoV-2 and Influenza are lipophilic, enveloped viruses, and are relatively easy to inactivate by exposure to alcohols. The envelope mainly consists of the lipid bilayer, taken from the host cells at assembly/budding stage of the viral life cycle. Therefore the constitution of the lipid bilayer should be common in all SARS, MERS and influenza viruses, even after mutations, and thus these closely-related viruses will be disinfected by exposure to ethanol with the same concentration. Existing experimental data indicate that an ethanol concentration of 30~40 v/v% is sufficient to inactivate Influenza-A viruses in solution[1,2,3]. The author suggests that it may be possible to use alcoholic beverages of 16~20 v/v% concentration for this disinfection process, such as Whisky (1:1 hot water dilution) or Japanese Sake, because they are readily available and safe (non-toxic). By inhaling the alcohol vapor at 50~60$^\circ$C (122~140$^\circ$F) through the nose for one or two minutes, it will condense on surfaces inside the respiratory tract; mainly in the nasal cavity. The alcohol concentration will be intensified to ~36 v/v% by this process, which is enough to disinfect the corona virus on the mucous membrane. This method also provides more moisture into respiratory tract, and helps to clean the inside of the nasal cavity by stimulating blowing of the nose, and also makes the mucous escalator work actively so that the self-clearing mechanism in the trachea will remove viruses faster. An alternative prompt method is also discussed. We use 40 v/v% whisky or similar alcohol, dripping on a gauze, inhale the vapor slowly at room temperature. This method works well for the front part of the nasal cavity. This is suitable for clinical workers, because they may need to use prompt preventative measures at any time.

[albedo]

I attended today a very interesting and intriguing presentation by Dr. Marian Laderoute, Ph.D. Medical Sciences, immunologist in Ottawa on the (key) innate immune system immunosenescence in relation to SARS-Cov-2 and a protective role of a human endogenous foamy retrovirus K102 (HERV-K102) perhaps acquired ca. 800'000 years ago! The good news is that protective role and reduction of immunosenescence can be modulated, if the theory is correct, in particular by supplementation (e.g. DHEA, zinc, isoflavonoids, Lysine, ... see chart below)

 

A simple background information is in the attached document which also points to an extended explication Dr Laderoute has circulated. I attach below a picture from the background document and her presentation today.

 

"...When we combine this ‘killer activity’ of the HERV-K102 provirus and particles with the T cells and antibodies which recognize the HERV-K102 envelope protein on the surface of abnormal cells (the cells infected with SARS-CoV-2, for example), we have a HERV-K102 based powerful system of host defense which would be extremely useful against novel, emerging zoonotic viruses, particularly RNA viruses like SARS-CoV-2. This is very important during a pandemic especially because most humans do not have virus specific antibodies. Several lines of evidence suggest that once this system gets activated the protection appears to last up to one year. Indeed, this prolonged protection or memory of innate immunity has been called ‘trained (innate) immunity’ by Professor Mihai Netea of the Netherlands...

 

"...First people who are sick and even those who only have hypertension can take zinc, DHEA, isoflavonoids and lysine all of which are sold as antivirals in naturopathic stores to reverse the condition of immunosenescence. This way the lytic release of the protector HERV-K102 particles won’t be inhibited so that they can better fight the COVID-19 coronavirus...."

 

 Marian Laderoute background doc April 2020.PNG   253.96KB   1 downloads

 Marian Laderoute April 25 2020.png   432.73KB   0 downloads

Attached Files

•  Dr M Laderoute April 2020.pdf   219.77KB   14 downloads

[DanCG]

I am not really following what you are saying about "suppressing information about potential benefits of therapeutics in order to dupe people into controlled trials". Perhaps you can explain that bit.

 

But I don't see criticism of randomized controlled trials (RCT) as valid. 

 

Patients themselves must decide whether they want to participate in an RCT. 

So the patient is offered the choice between a RCT with a 50% chance of being in the untreated control arm or not participating in a RCT. If the physician is unwilling, or not allowed, to prescribe the proposed treatment outside of a RCT, the choice not to participate results in a 100% chance of being in the untreated group.

 

What we are talking about here is that the “ethicists” advocate keeping patients in the dark as to the available information already in existence that suggests, but does not prove, that the proposed treatment will be beneficial, because the patients will not want to participate in the trial and insist on receiving the treatment. Those selfish patients want to live!

 

I don’t see anyone criticizing RCTs in general. There has been some valid criticism of the HCQ trials to date, because they seem to be deliberately set up to show failure.

 

Is COVID-19 an emergency or not? If it is not an emergency, then sure, take your time. Dot all i’s and cross all t’s. It sure looked like an emergency when who knows how many people were dying in Wuhan and the hospitals in Italy were overwhelmed. In an emergency, physicians should be able to try any treatment they can justify as reasonable. Patients should be informed and old drugs like hydroxychloroquine or ivermectin should be available under “right to try”.

Enough free and informed people will chose RCTs to sort things out in the long run.

Edited by DanCG, 25 April 2020 - 08:09 PM.

[Hip]

What we are talking about here is that the “ethicists” advocate keeping patients in the dark as to the available information already in existence that suggests, but does not prove, that the proposed treatment will be beneficial, because the patients will not want to participate in the trial and insist on receiving the treatment. Those selfish patients want to live!

 

OK, I see the point being made, thanks for explaining it clearly.

 

My first thought is that for a lot of patients, enrolling in a clinical trial may be their only chance of getting the drug (or a least a 50/50 shot at getting it).

 

In the US, things are a little different, as doctors have the ability to prescribe any drug which they think might help a patient (even if there is no clinical trial proof it works). Whereas in European countries like the UK with socialized medicine, there are more restrictions placed on doctors, and they may not be allowed to prescribe a drug which has not been proven to work. 

 

So for a patient in Europe, a clinical trial may be their only way of getting treated with the drug. 

 

The US system has its advantages and disadvantages. The advantage is that you are usually able to find a doctor willing to prescribe a potentially beneficial drug you want. The disadvantage is that doctors or hospitals may hype up the benefits of the drug without there being any evidence it really works, which gets paying customers through the door, and boosts business, but possibly without helping patients at all. 

 

All the hype about hydroxychloroquine is an example: hospitals in the US were offering this drug, but clinical trials have now shown this drug does not work, or at least does not work when it is begun later on in the illness (the clinical trials never tested very early use of the drug).

Edited by Hip, 25 April 2020 - 11:18 PM.

[lancebr]

American research team has reported that ivermectin is effective in reducing the mortality rate of the novel coronavirus.

 

"According to the team, the death rate of coronavirus patients declined to about one-sixth, compared to the rate of death

in those who did not use the medication.

 

Of the patients who had to use ventilators, the death rate of patients who were not treated with ivermectin stood at 21.3%,

while the figure for those who received the medication stood at 7.3%. Furthermore, the mortality rate of all patients stood

at 1.4% for those who were administered ivermectin. This was roughly one-sixth of the death rate for people who did not

use the medication, which stood at 8.5%.

 

The team says the use of ivermectin is also effective in shortening the days a patient needs to be hospitalized, serving as

a point of reference when considering treatment methods."

 

https://mainichi.jp/...00m/0na/007000c

 

 

Edited by lancebr, 26 April 2020 - 02:48 AM.

[joelcairo]

American research team has reported that ivermectin is effective in reducing the mortality rate of the novel coronavirus.

 

"According to the team, the death rate of coronavirus patients declined to about one-sixth, compared to the rate of death

in those who did not use the medication.

 

Of the patients who had to use ventilators, the death rate of patients who were not treated with ivermectin stood at 21.3%,

while the figure for those who received the medication stood at 7.3%. Furthermore, the mortality rate of all patients stood

at 1.4% for those who were administered ivermectin. This was roughly one-sixth of the death rate for people who did not

use the medication, which stood at 8.5%.

 

The team says the use of ivermectin is also effective in shortening the days a patient needs to be hospitalized, serving as

a point of reference when considering treatment methods."

 

https://mainichi.jp/...00m/0na/007000c

 

I hope Invermectin is the real thing but I keep reading that the death rate of patients who require ventilators is about 80%, not 21%. That's a big discrepancy.

[lancebr]

Looks like Masterjohn is changing his tune about vitamin D supplementation since a new study

is showing that higher levels of Vitamin D have milder cases and lower levels of vitamin D have

more severe cases.

 

https://papers.ssrn....ract_id=3571484

 

Vitamin D levels ng/mL :

 

"Among mild cases, it was, on average, 31.2; among ordinary cases, it was 27.4;

among severe cases, it was 21.2; among critical cases, it was 17.1."

 

 

He was way behind the times on his thinking of Vitamin D....pretty much everyone that was recommending

Vitamin D supplementation months ago already had the consensus that Vitamin D was good for reducing the

severity of the virus.

 

He is now recommending 900 iu a day of Vitamin D, but even after this study showing higher levels of Vitamin D

had better outcomes with the virus, than lower levels, he is still saying that he believes:

 

"vitamin D may raise ACE2, which may increase the risk of getting COVID-19. I remain concerned that high

vitamin D levels may, through this mechanism, make COVID-19 outcomes more severe."

 

https://chrismasterj...-study-released

 

 

So the average for mild cases was 31.2 ng/ml....in the past doctors have told me that the optimal range

for vitamin D is 50 to 70 ng/ml.  So if someone had their levels in that higher range of 50 to70 would they 

have an even better outcome with this virus?

 

 

Edited by lancebr, 26 April 2020 - 08:37 AM.

[albedo]

A detailed current Review incl. potential mechanisms and treatments:

Sanders JM, Monogue ML, Jodlowski TZ, Cutrell JB. Pharmacologic Treatments for Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19): A Review. JAMA. 2020

 treatment review april 2020.PNG   653.16KB   0 downloads

 

[Mind]

Advisors to President Trump should make sure he doesn't say anything positive about Ivermectin or other therapies....lest they be relentlessly pilloried, trashed, and ridiculed by U.S. media, lol.

 

Has anyone heard anything further about the stem cell treatments for COVID-19? A few pages ago in this thread we had reports of stem cell treatments in China and Israel (Pluristem). At that time, there was 100% success in rescuing patients (some severe), with about 20 patients in total.

[BlueCloud]

Well, I think suggesting to inject bleach after exposition to UV is a terrible idea that deserves to be pillored, trashed and ridiculed by the international media, not just the US.

 

But I’m sure many here will disagree. Perhaps it’s a worthy area of investigation after all, who knows.....
I myself don’t like syringes, so I’ll just experiment with ingesting a strong alcoholic beverage like Tequillla or Rhum while exposing myself to the sun. I will report back.

Edited by BlueCloud, 26 April 2020 - 12:53 PM.

[mike_ag]

I read more and more about these blood issues with covid, especially the suspected induced blood clotting.

 

HCQ helps to prevent blood clotting, maybe another reason why it's effective if taken early.

[BlueCloud]

Well, I think suggesting to inject bleach after exposition to UV is a terrible idea that deserves to be pillored, trashed and ridiculed by the international media, not just the US.

 

But I’m sure many here will disagree. Perhaps it’s a worthy area of investigation after all, who knows.....
I myself don’t like syringes, so I’ll just experiment with ingesting a strong alcoholic beverage like Tequillla or Rhum while exposing myself to the sun. I will report back.

I would suggest to the person tagging this as "Pointless timewasting" , to do so for real reasons other than a personal vendetta. I was answering Mind's comment above about Trump being villiified on the US media for his treatment suggestions. So it was 100% related to that post and not pointless. If you think injecting bleach is not worthy of ridicule, please present your rational arguments as to why that might work in treating the infection. Perhaps links to studies too. Thank you. 

Edited by BlueCloud, 26 April 2020 - 01:25 PM.

[BlueCloud]

From this article ( in french), it seems the virus is attacking the nervous system, and peripheral systems too. Many reports of Guillain-Barré syndromes have been described by chinese, italian and french hospitals from infected patients. Sometimes leading to tetraplegy. many patients becoming apathetic, with loss of executive function. Also quite a few patients developping neurological symptoms ( confusion, loss of consciouness, etc)  BEFORE developing respiratory distress.

Edited by BlueCloud, 26 April 2020 - 01:53 PM.

[Mind]

I would suggest to the person tagging this as "Pointless timewasting" , to do so for real reasons other than a personal vendetta. I was answering Mind's comment above about Trump being villiified on the US media for his treatment suggestions. So it was 100% related to that post and not pointless. If you think injecting bleach is not worthy of ridicule, please present your rational arguments as to why that might work in treating the infection. Perhaps links to studies too. Thank you. 

 

The president is not a scientist. When ideas pop into his head he spouts them out. I appreciate that he is thinking about solutions, like people in this thread. It is in stark contrast to all of those that reflectively denounce everything the President says.

 

The president was thinking/asking about how to disinfect blood. Not suggesting people drink or inject bleach, that is just national media spin.

 

When the President said "Hydroxychloroquine might work and it might not....I am interested in saving lives", that is what I would hope a leader would say. Oddly, he was roundly, incessantly ridiculed for "pushing" unproven treatments on people.

 

Getting back to the topic:

 

Even here at LongeCity, people speculate about "disinfecting" blood. https://www.longecit...ral-properties/

 

Some media outlets even reported about using hydrogen peroxide to kill viruses. https://www.msn.com/...ion/ar-BB12qktc

Edited by Mind, 26 April 2020 - 01:53 PM.

[BlueCloud]

The president is not a scientist. When ideas pop into his head he spouts them out. I appreciate that he is thinking about solutions, like people in this thread. It is in stark contrast to all of those that reflectively denounce everything the President says.

 

The president was thinking/asking about how to disinfect blood. Not suggesting people drink or inject bleach, that is just national media spin.

 

When the President said "Hydroxychloroquine might work and it might not....I am interested in saving lives", that is what I would hope a leader would say. Oddly, he was roundly, incessantly ridiculed for "pushing" unproven treatments on people.

 

Getting back to the topic:

 

Even here at LongeCity, people speculate about "disinfecting" blood. https://www.longecit...ral-properties/

 

Some media outlets even reported about using hydrogen peroxide to kill viruses. https://www.msn.com/...ion/ar-BB12qktc

 Well I saw the video myself, and his exact words were "“I asked Bill a question that probably some of you are thinking of, if you're totally into that world, which I find to be very interesting. So, supposing we hit the body with a tremendous—whether it's ultraviolet or just very powerful light—and I think you said that that hasn't been checked, but you're going to test it. And then I said, supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way, and I think you said you're going to test that too. It sounds interesting…

And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning. Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it would be interesting to check that. So, that, you're going to have to use medical doctors with. But it sounds—it sounds interesting to me..”"

 

And by disinfectant, he was refering to the findings of bleach killing the virus in a minute or so as it was reported before.

There is a reason why most leaders refrain from making any medical comments when facing the press. They usually always hand the questions to their medical advisers or health secretary that is next to them. Its is exactly to avoid things like this, and to avoid having uninformed people from hurting themselves by misundertanding what is being said.

The irrationality on this forum surrounding the persona of Trump is close to radical cult thinking, and radical cult thinking has always been in the way of scientific progress. I don't see how constantly finding excuses for his non-sense helps science and knowledge. Putting cult of persona or ideology over knowledge has always impeded science. Always. This forum has been going into a downward spiral for the last years because of this.

And you know as well as me that Methylene Blue isn't a "disinfectant". And the theory about hydrogen peroxide is for inhalers.

 

Anyway, back to topic I guess.

Edited by BlueCloud, 26 April 2020 - 02:13 PM.

[xEva]

Please guys, let's not turn this already bloated thread into a political debate. If someone wants to drink bleach, good riddance.

[xEva]

From this article ( in french), it seems the virus is attacking the nervous system, and peripheral systems too. Many reports of Guillain-Barré syndromes have been described by chinese, italian and french hospitals from infected patients. Sometimes leading to tetraplegy. many patients becoming apathetic, with loss of executive function. Also quite a few patients developping neurological symptoms ( confusion, loss of consciouness, etc)  BEFORE developing respiratory distress.

 

confusion on admission was attributed to (sometimes numerous) micro-strokes in wapo article on blood clots linked above.

 

More and more it appears a blood clotting disease, where even severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS)  is presumed to be the consequence of clotting of micro-vessels in the lungs.
 

[Mr Spock]

Not bad, considering that I'm a quack doctor, huh? I gotta admit, I've obtained so much more benefit from reading this forum than I ever got from any clinician, insofar as staying alive is concerned.

 

Sounds compelling. In the meantime, do everything possible to avoid cardiovascular stress. Meditation is a great place to start. Definitely avoid processed foods, other than olive oil and, only if you're on a low-carb diet, butter and coconut oil. (To be fair, 90% dark chocolate is also a processed food which is good for the heart, but I don't recommend it in your case because it will temporarily increase blood pressure.) For sure, vegetable oils, seed oils, and peanut oil are your enemies. And don't even think about grains, whole or not. (OK I won't freak out if you have a bowl of rice or oats once a week. And yes, I'm a vegetarian who actually admits that grains are bad.) Limit sodium to the extent you feel that you need it. (Bear in mind that "low sodium diet" is a meaningless term because it depends on how much one loses in sweat, as well as one's potassium intake.)

 

Beets, onions, and beans are foods to keep the vessels dilated, unless you're low-carb, in which case, just the onions will have to do.

 

Anyways, now that we're essentially satisfied that you're not a COVID19 patient, it's probably time to take this offline. Feel free to create a thread for your particular case in the appropriate subforum, if you want to continue consulting with people. You can also PM me, but I've been offline for months on occasion.

Haha,

I thought you definitely from the medical community. 

 

Not out of the woods yet; so will create a seperate thread.