3083 replies to this topic

[lancebr]

"French authorities are warning of turmeric-containing food supplements that could disrupt the immune system

by interfering with inflammatory defence mechanisms that fight infections such as the coronavirus."

 

https://www.nutraing...immune-response

 

The report is in French:

 

https://www.anses.fr...T2020SA0045.pdf

 

 

So should we be worried about taking any turmeric/curcumin supplements during this Covid?

 

 

------------------------

Here is a translation of the part of the report referring to turmeric/curcuma:

 

"Curcumas owe their anti-inflammatory effect to curcumin and its analogues.
 

Several mechanisms are mentioned in in vitro or in vivo studies concerning the anti-inflammatory activity of curcumas, their extracts and curcumin:

 

- inhibition of LOX, COX, phospholipases and the production of leukotrienes, prostaglandins, thromboxane, inducible NO synthase (iNOS) (Bundy et al. 2004, ChainaniWu 2003);

 

- inhibition of the production of TNF-α and IL-1β; IL-6 and IL-12 (Catanzaro et al. 2018, ChainaniWu 2003, Esatbeyoglu et al. 2012);

 

- the inhibition of many protease-type enzymes, some of which are involved in inflammatory phenomena: elastase, hyaluronidase, collagenase, metalloproteinases (MMP-1,MMP-3); of MCP-1 (monocyte chemoattractant protein-1) (Xu et al. 1997).

 

- a decrease in the level of expression of mTOR, a protein targeted by several immunosuppressants (Dai et al. 2018).

 

In vitro, these effects are observed at concentrations of around 20 µM in general. In vivo, decreases in several pro-inflammatory interleukins

are observed in exposed rodents by force-feeding or food (Catanzaro et al. 2018).

 

The inhibition of the COX-2 pathway is mainly responsible for the anti-inflammatory effects of curcumin. It results from an inhibition of the activation of NF-κB; activation of Nrf2 contributes to the antioxidant effect of curcumin. This inhibition of NF-κB is attributed to several targets in

upstream of this transcription factor. Inhibition of Mitogen-Activated Protein Kinases (MAPK) is reported to be responsible for the decrease in IL-12 (Catanzaro et al. 2018, Esatbeyoglu et al.2012).

 

Janus kinase / signal transducers and activators of transcription (JAK / STAT) inhibition is mentioned, also implicated in a decrease in expression of COX-2 and iNOS (Holleran et al. 2020).

Several cell types involved in inflammation and immunity also have their activity modified by curcumin (dendritic cells, macrophages, B and T lymphocytes) (Esatbeyoglu et al. 2012)

 

Conclusion on the anti-inflammatory effects of turmeric

Curcumin and C. longa have been the subject of numerous studies relating to their anti-inflammatory effect. Curcuma activity is linked to curcumin, mainly by inhibiting pathways NF-κB and JAK / STAT as well as by activation of Nrf2.
 

Clinical studies are in favor of curcumin in certain indications (osteoarthritis,particular) but they rarely highlight significant changes in parameters
objective inflammatory in chronic inflammation situations. Curcumin looks good tolerated, but in view of experimental data which show that it induces pathway inhibition metabolism of COX-2 and LOX, as well as a reduction in the production of proinflammatory cytokines, it is likely to exert a modification of the immune defenses in a infectious context."

 

Edited by lancebr, 26 April 2020 - 04:28 PM.

[zorba990]

Well I saw the video myself, and his exact words were "“I asked Bill a question that probably some of you are thinking of, if you're totally into that world, which I find to be very interesting. So, supposing we hit the body with a tremendous—whether it's ultraviolet or just very powerful light—and I think you said that that hasn't been checked, but you're going to test it. And then I said, supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way, and I think you said you're going to test that too. It sounds interesting…
And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning. Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it would be interesting to check that. So, that, you're going to have to use medical doctors with. But it sounds—it sounds interesting to me..”"

And by disinfectant, he was refering to the findings of bleach killing the virus in a minute or so as it was reported before.
There is a reason why most leaders refrain from making any medical comments when facing the press. They usually always hand the questions to their medical advisers or health secretary that is next to them. Its is exactly to avoid things like this, and to avoid having uninformed people from hurting themselves by misundertanding what is being said.
The irrationality on this forum surrounding the persona of Trump is close to radical cult thinking, and radical cult thinking has always been in the way of scientific progress. I don't see how constantly finding excuses for his non-sense helps science and knowledge. Putting cult of persona or ideology over knowledge has always impeded science. Always. This forum has been going into a downward spiral for the last years because of this.
And you know as well as me that Methylene Blue isn't a "disinfectant". And the theory about hydrogen peroxide is for inhalers.

Anyway, back to topic I guess.

I strongly agree with this. And it has hurt many aspects of liberal causes greatly that they blindly rail against anything the President does. I can't imagine how upset they will be at the inevitable reelection.

[zorba990]

Has anyone considered the anti-viral aspects of artemisia compounds?
Here's a start:

Beyond malaria: The inhibition of viruses by artemisinin-type compounds
"Abstract
Natural products represent valuable chemical scaffolds for drug development. A recent success story in this context was artemisinin, which is not only active against malaria but also to other diseases. This raised the interest of artemisinin's potential for drug repurposing. On the present review, we give an overview on artemisinin's antiviral activity. There is good in vitro and in vivo evidence for the activity of artemisinin and its derivatives against DNA viruses of the Herpesviridae and Hepadnaviridae families such as cytomegaloviruses, human herpesvirus 6, herpes simplex viruses 1 and 2, Epstein-Barr virus and Hepatitis B virus. The evidence is weaker for Polyomaviruses and papilloma viruses. Weaker or no inhibitory activity in vitro has been reported for RNA viruses such as human immunodeficiency viruses 1 and 2, hepatitis C virus, influenza virus and others. Interestingly, the artemisinin derivative artesunate did not exert cross-resistance to ganciclovir-resistant HCMV and exerted synergistic inhibition in combination with several clinically established antiviral standard drugs. The antiviral activity of first generation artemisinin derivatives (e.g. artesunate, artemether, etc.) was enhanced by novel derivatives, including dimer and trimer molecules. First results on patients indicating activity in a subset of HCMV patients. Novel developments in the field of nanotechnology and synthetic biology to bioengineer microorganisms for artemisinin production may pave the way for novel drugs to fight viral infections with artemisinin-based drugs.

"


(This one looks to be supplement company hopefulness, but here it is anyway...)
Mateon Expands its COVID-19 Therapeutic Program to include Artemisinin
"n vitro data generated by the company and its collaborators supports the ability of artemisinin, an anti-malarial drug, to inhibit SARS-CoV-2 which can lead to COVID-19

Artemisinin complements OT-101 which continues to demonstrate potent activity against SARS-CoV-2 and expands the company’s intellectual property portfolio

AGOURA HILLS, Calif., April 08, 2020 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- Mateon Therapeutics, Inc. (MATN) (“Mateon”) today announced that its COVID-19 directed antiviral screening program discovered that Artemisinin is highly potent at inhibiting the ability of the COVID-19 causing virus (SARS-CoV-2) to multiply while also having an excellent safety index. Artemisinin is a natural derivative from the Asian herb Artemisia annua and has been used to treat malaria. The company plans to seek additional support to evaluate clinical proof of concept studies to show the potential of Artemisinin to treat SARS-CoV-2 virus infection and COVID-19 complications. The addition of Artemisinin provides the company with a number of candidates to address the SARS-CoV-2 virus with a combination of therapies including its leading drug candidate OT-101 and its antisense platform targeting the COVID-19 viral sequence.

Artemisinin derived from Chinese herb Artemisia annua L. (Sweet wormwood) has been used medicinally to treat fevers for centuries in China. Like other potential COVID-19 therapeutic agents such as Hydrochloroquine and Remesidivir, the efficacy of Artemisinin remains to be tested in well controlled and sufficiently powered clinical trials. However, given the known safety profile and the widespread use of Artemisinin the company anticipates that clinical development of Artemisinin can be abridged to effectively deal with the current COVID-19 pandemic.

The availability of Artemisinin as a pre-existing dietary supplement may allow it to be deployed immediately in developing countries where the healthcare system can easily be overwhelmed. Its safety is clearly superior to chloroquine and remesidivir. The company intends to work with partners who have distribution networks in developing countries to provide a clean supply to avert a humanitarian crisis.

Dr. Vuong Trieu, President and Chief Executive Officer of Mateon stated: “The discovery of Artemisinin through our fruitful collaboration with Golden Mountain Partners could be the solution for COVID-19 pandemic. This discovery is particularly important since we have the potential to advance the program rapidly because it is based on technology and product that are readily available. Like other potential COVID-19 therapeutic agents such as Hydrochloroquine and Remesidivir, the efficacy of Artemisinin remained to be tested in well controlled and sufficiently powered clinical trials but Artemisinin has many advantages against COVID-19.”

"

[joelcairo]

That curcumin warning isn't based on in vitro testing or anything else, just idle speculation. More akin to a smear campaign than medical research. If anybody cares to investigate the subject in detail, I'm sure they will find the majority of studies showing curcumin providing protection against viral infections and their worst effects.

 

Not that I'm recommending the use of curcumin against COVID-19 without clear evidence, but my understanding is that most people of middle age and beyond have an inappropriately high level of systemic inflammation. That inflammation is more likely to confuse and inhibit immune responses than the curcumin that reduces it.

 

The same article seems to warn against the use of echinacea for the same reasons, also advice I am not likely to take.

 

Early on there were warnings about the use of NSAIDs to reduce inflammation in the case of COVID-19 infection. I did some searching this morning and these seem to have mostly withdrawn due to a lack of clinical evidence.

[sciack]

That curcumin warning isn't based on in vitro testing or anything else, just idle speculation. More akin to a smear campaign than medical research. If anybody cares to investigate the subject in detail, I'm sure they will find the majority of studies showing curcumin providing protection against viral infections and their worst effects.

 

Not that I'm recommending the use of curcumin against COVID-19 without clear evidence, but my understanding is that most people of middle age and beyond have an inappropriately high level of systemic inflammation. That inflammation is more likely to confuse and inhibit immune responses than the curcumin that reduces it.

 

The same article seems to warn against the use of echinacea for the same reasons, also advice I am not likely to take.

 

Early on there were warnings about the use of NSAIDs to reduce inflammation in the case of COVID-19 infection. I did some searching this morning and these seem to have mostly withdrawn due to a lack of clinical evidence.

In India the virus didn’t kill much so far... maybe turmeric helps? 

[joelcairo]

I doubt that's the reason, but we need good explanations for why some entire countries that everyone assumed would be hit extremely hard have largely escaped the virus' worst effects. Not sure if the reasons are genetic or cultural or dietary or climatic or economic or what, but something seems to be going on and we should be able to learn a lot from this.

Edited by joelcairo, 26 April 2020 - 07:16 PM.

[Daniel Cooper]

In India the virus didn’t kill much so far... maybe turmeric helps? 

 

You have to be careful about latching on to one thing that is different in one population and deciding that that is the essential difference that is responsible for the outcome.

 

Some other differences off the top of my head -

• Different genetics. 
• Much lower rates of obesity and related co-morbidities. Less high blood pressure, less diabetes, less heart disease.  India is in general not a continent full of fat people.  In fact, after visiting there I recall thinking "I haven't see one fat person all day", something you are not going to say in any Western country.
• People in India tend to spend more time outdoors and get a lot more sunshine.
• India is a much younger population than Europe and America.

Those are just the differences I can come up with in two minutes. 

 

We don't know to what extent population genetics plays a role in this disease. Seeing how hard Italy, France, and Spain were hit but not Germany I had to wonder if it were not playing a role.  But putting that aside, having a younger less obese population is going to make a pretty dramatic difference in outcomes based on what we know so far.

[Hebbeh]

Testing and reporting likely plays a role.  Most of the masses in countries like India don't have the resources to seek medical attention and as such, certainly aren't tested and usually die quietly at home where they are neither noticed or counted.

 

You have to be careful about latching on to one thing that is different in one population and deciding that that is the essential difference that is responsible for the outcome.

 

Some other differences off the top of my head -

• Different genetics. 
• Much lower rates of obesity and related co-morbidities. Less high blood pressure, less diabetes, less heart disease.  India is in general not a continent full of fat people.  In fact, after visiting there I recall thinking "I haven't see one fat person all day", something you are not going to say in any Western country.
• People in India tend to spend more time outdoors and get a lot more sunshine.
• India is a much younger population than Europe and America.

Those are just the differences I can come up with in two minutes. 

 

We don't know to what extent population genetics plays a role in this disease. Seeing how hard Italy, France, and Spain were hit but not Germany I had to wonder if it were not playing a role.  But putting that aside, having a younger less obese population is going to make a pretty dramatic difference in outcomes based on what we know so far.

 

[sciack]

You have to be careful about latching on to one thing that is different in one population and deciding that that is the essential difference that is responsible for the outcome.

 

Some other differences off the top of my head -

• Different genetics. 
• Much lower rates of obesity and related co-morbidities. Less high blood pressure, less diabetes, less heart disease.  India is in general not a continent full of fat people.  In fact, after visiting there I recall thinking "I haven't see one fat person all day", something you are not going to say in any Western country.
• People in India tend to spend more time outdoors and get a lot more sunshine.
• India is a much younger population than Europe and America.

Those are just the differences I can come up with in two minutes. 

 

We don't know to what extent population genetics plays a role in this disease. Seeing how hard Italy, France, and Spain were hit but not Germany I had to wonder if it were not playing a role.  But putting that aside, having a younger less obese population is going to make a pretty dramatic difference in outcomes based on what we know so far.

I am not latching on to anything, I said MAYBE. That means I don’t know you don’t know, nobody knows so far. It was an idea. Some people said also maybe it is the spicy food like in Thailand (where I live), or Mexico, or Calabria (region in italy where they eat very spicy)... who knows ... definitely there is something going on, it is not spreading in homogenic fashion I am interested in finding correlations and I never thought about turmeric/cucrumin and since Indians are the one eating it the most I thought maybe it helps them. I am not saying it surely is.

[Daniel Cooper]

Testing and reporting likely plays a role.  Most of the masses in countries like India don't have the resources to seek medical attention and as such, certainly aren't tested and usually die quietly at home where they are neither noticed or counted.

 

I agree with that as well.  I seriously doubt anyone in India even has a good guess at how many people have the virus and how many have died.

[sciack]

Testing and reporting likely plays a role.  Most of the masses in countries like India don't have the resources to seek medical attention and as such, certainly aren't tested and usually die quietly at home where they are neither noticed or counted.

They have hospitals in India if they can’t breath they would go there. The same here in Thailand if they are sick they go to hospital even poor people. And hospitals in Thailand are not crowded with people that can’t breath. So clearly we don’t have a big problem here. Most likely it is simply the UV light, temperature and humidity. 

[joelcairo]

These are all reasonable hypotheses for regional differences, and all testable. Eventually we will have many more answers, but it's disappointing that after 4 months there is little clarity about every aspect of the disease.

[Hebbeh]

They have hospitals in India if they can’t breath they would go there. The same here in Thailand if they are sick they go to hospital even poor people. And hospitals in Thailand are not crowded with people that can’t breath. So clearly we don’t have a big problem here. Most likely it is simply the UV light, temperature and humidity. 

 

I have personal experience with 3rd world countries and their health systems (or lack of) and this is simply not true.  Granted, I have never been to Thailand but I doubt you represent the typical masses that live day to day and hand to mouth.  True, medical care is available to those able to pay, but that certainly doesn't represent the majority in most of these 3rd world countries.

[Florin]

High temps don't reduce the transmission of COVID-19.

 

Sunlight eliminates SARS-CoV-2 on non-porous surfaces after a few minutes.

 

https://www.consumer...covid/#sunlight

Edited by Florin, 26 April 2020 - 10:10 PM.

[bhangchai]

In India the virus didn’t kill much so far... maybe turmeric helps? 

 

There has been speculation that the BCG vaccine may confer some protection against COVID-19.  India has had an extensive BCG vaccine program for many years.

 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC7136957/

 

"Ordinarily, a vaccine provides protection from a particular pathogen, by inducing effector mechanisms directed to that pathogen. However, certain live attenuated vaccines like the Bacillus Calmette–Guerin (BCG), an attenuated strain of Mycobacterium bovis, provide protection not only to a specific pathogen, but also against unrelated pathogens, some of which cause acute respiratory tract infections.[1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7] The underlying mechanism for the BCG vaccination-induced non-specific protection is thought to be mediated via the induction of innate immune memory, or “trained immunity, as was first proposed by Netea and collaborators.[8]"

 

"Based on these observations, we hypothesized that countries who continue BCG immunization programs would contain the spread of this new coronavirus better than those that did not have or have ceased their national BCG vaccination programs. To check the validity of this hypothesis, we compared the number of cases and deaths per million people from 40 countries with at least 500 cases according to their BCG vaccination status (Figure 1 and Table 1 ). Case numbers per million people in countries with a national BCG vaccination programme were statistically significantly lower than those that did not have or have ceased their national BCG vaccination programs (P<0.0001). "

[sciack]

I have personal experience with 3rd world countries and their health systems (or lack of) and this is simply not true.  Granted, I have never been to Thailand but I doubt you represent the typical masses that live day to day and hand to mouth.  True, medical care is available to those able to pay, but that certainly doesn't represent the majority in most of these 3rd world countries.

Then you don’t know shut up. Thai people can use government hospitals they don’t pay for it. 

There has been speculation that the BCG vaccine may confer some protection against COVID-19.  India has had an extensive BCG vaccine program for many years.

 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC7136957/

 

"Ordinarily, a vaccine provides protection from a particular pathogen, by inducing effector mechanisms directed to that pathogen. However, certain live attenuated vaccines like the Bacillus Calmette–Guerin (BCG), an attenuated strain of Mycobacterium bovis, provide protection not only to a specific pathogen, but also against unrelated pathogens, some of which cause acute respiratory tract infections.[1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7] The underlying mechanism for the BCG vaccination-induced non-specific protection is thought to be mediated via the induction of innate immune memory, or “trained immunity, as was first proposed by Netea and collaborators.[8]"

 

"Based on these observations, we hypothesized that countries who continue BCG immunization programs would contain the spread of this new coronavirus better than those that did not have or have ceased their national BCG vaccination programs. To check the validity of this hypothesis, we compared the number of cases and deaths per million people from 40 countries with at least 500 cases according to their BCG vaccination status (Figure 1 and Table 1 ). Case numbers per million people in countries with a national BCG vaccination programme were statistically significantly lower than those that did not have or have ceased their national BCG vaccination programs (P<0.0001). "

That’s true also in Thailand most of the population got the BCG vaccine. But still I don’t understand with so many foreigners living here why they don’t get it as well...

Edited by sciack, 26 April 2020 - 11:11 PM.

[Hebbeh]

Then you don’t know shut up. Thai people can use government hospitals they don’t pay for it.

 

Well, I believe the conversion was discussing India, not Thailand.

 

https://en.wikipedia...thcare_in_India

 

There are 14 million doctors in India.^[10] Yet, India has failed to reach its Millennium Development Goals related to health.^[24] The definition of 'access is the ability to receive services of a certain quality at a specific cost and convenience.^[19] The healthcare system of India is lacking in three factors related to access to healthcare: provision, utilization, and attainment.^[24] Provision, or the supply of healthcare facilities, can lead to utilization, and finally attainment of good health. However, there currently exists a huge gap between these factors, leading to a collapsed system with insufficient access to healthcare.^[24] Differential distributions of services, power, and resources have resulted in inequalities in healthcare access.^[19] Access and entry into hospitals depends on gender, socioeconomic status, education, wealth, and location of residence (urban versus rural).^[19] Furthermore, inequalities in financing healthcare and distance from healthcare facilities are barriers to access.^[19] Additionally, there is a lack of sufficient infrastructure in areas with high concentrations of poor individuals.^[24] Large numbers of tribes and ex-untouchables that live in isolated and dispersed areas often have low numbers of professionals.^[25] Finally, health services may have long wait times or consider ailments as not serious enough to treat.^[24] Those with the greatest need often do not have access to healthcare.^[19]

 

 

 

  However, if you would prefer to discuss Thailand being your area of expertise instead...

 

https://en.wikipedia...are_in_Thailand

 

However, access to medical care in rural areas still lags far behind that in the cities.

For much of its history, rural areas in Thailand were under-served medically. Rural health centres failed to attract health workers as they could not compete with urban areas offering higher salaries and more social amenities. The government, in 1975, launched a medical welfare scheme for poor and vulnerable citizens, both rural and urban.  These measures have only been partially successful

 

[lancebr]

Health experts look at virgin coconut oil as possible cure for Covid-19

 

https://www.icp.org....irus-ncov-2019/

 

 

 

 

[Gal220]

if I learned anything new lately  that would be: treat viral infections asap.

 

If this is a common knowledge for a virologist, why is the time and money being wasted on current trials of the sickest? Who comes up with the guidelines, specialists or bureaucrats?

 

I have not been much of a conspiracies buff but the latest developments are beyond bizarre. Although, is it conspiracy or just stupidity?

 

Life extension reiterates what you and Dorian are saying on their CoVid page

 

https://www.lifeexte...-immune-support

 

 

"Do not delay implementing the above regimen. Once viruses that cause respiratory infections infect too many cells, they replicate out of control and strategies like zinc lozenges will not be effective"

 

HCQ + zinc or Quercetin + zinc wont be nearly as effective if not used immediately.

[Dorian Grey]

Got Pepcid?  

 

https://www.dailymai...t-COVID-19.html

 

New York hospitals are quietly testing a HEARTBURN drug as treatment for COVID-19 and will know whether it's effective in 'a few weeks

 

Interest in the drug amid the pandemic developed after doctors in Wuhan found that although one in five COVID-19 patients over the age of 80 were dying, of the survivors, many were taking pills for heartburn.

 

They discovered that the poor elderly people had a higher survival rate. The poor patients used famotidine because it was cheaper than omeprazole. 

 

In a review of 6,212 medical records, with many patients on ventilators, the doctors in China found that only 14 percent of the elderly people using famotidine died while 27 percent of elderly people on omeprazole passed away.

 

Scientists suspect that in COVID-19, famotidine binds to the papainlike protease which helps pathogens replicate in the body and stops them replicating. 

Edited by Dorian Grey, 27 April 2020 - 03:47 AM.

[bladedmind]

Got Pepcid?  

 

https://www.dailymai...t-COVID-19.html

 

Thanks, Dorian Grey.  Also reported in Science.  Promising. 

https://www.sciencem...nst-coronavirus

 

Not so quiet any more.  Buy now. 

[lancebr]

Got Pepcid?  

 

https://www.dailymai...t-COVID-19.html

 

New York hospitals are quietly testing a HEARTBURN drug as treatment for COVID-19 and will know whether it's effective in 'a few weeks

 

Interest in the drug amid the pandemic developed after doctors in Wuhan found that although one in five COVID-19 patients over the age of 80 were dying, of the survivors, many were taking pills for heartburn.

 

They discovered that the poor elderly people had a higher survival rate. The poor patients used famotidine because it was cheaper than omeprazole. 

 

In a review of 6,212 medical records, with many patients on ventilators, the doctors in China found that only 14 percent of the elderly people using famotidine died while 27 percent of elderly people on omeprazole passed away.

 

Scientists suspect that in COVID-19, famotidine binds to the papainlike protease which helps pathogens replicate in the body and stops them replicating. 

 

So is Pepcid/Famotidine something that can be taken on a daily basis as a preventative measure or does it have any side effects

to be concerned about?

 

Thanks

 

Edited by lancebr, 27 April 2020 - 05:26 AM.

[Adaptogen]

So is Pepcid/Famotidine something that can be taken on a daily basis as a preventative measure or does it have any side effects

to be concerned about?

 

Thanks

 

 

I think it's rather safe at low doses, but the article said they used 9x typical daily use, which would be 9 * 40mg = 500mg intravenously. I would not be surprised if it had serious side effects at this dosage. That being said, it's selling out fast. You can get cheap bottles on eBay right now, but the price gauging is imminent I imagine. Search for famotadine and buy generic 20mg caps rather than pepcid, which is only sold in a 10mg formulation.

[lancebr]

I think it's rather safe at low doses, but the article said they used 9x typical daily use, which would be 9 * 40mg = 500mg intravenously. I would not be surprised if it had serious side effects at this dosage. That being said, it's selling out fast. You can get cheap bottles on eBay right now, but the price gauging is imminent I imagine. Search for famotadine and buy generic 20mg caps rather than pepcid, which is only sold in a 10mg formulation.

 

I assume that the people using it over in China was probably on the daily dose before they

were admitted to the hospital once they got sick....so there was some benefit from that dosage.

 

But the question I got is if they were taking it daily for heartburn and they still ended up in the hospital

due to serious issues from the virus....then how much did it really help them?

 

Is it something that you need to have in your system before you catch the virus or once you start

getting symptoms can you start taking it and still see benefits?

 

So they think it works because famotidine binds to the papainlike protease and stops them replicating. So what other things

also bind to the same protease.  I remember Ginger came up in the past with this same thing and it is also good for inflammation:

 

https://chemrxiv.org...tors/12071997/1

Edited by lancebr, 27 April 2020 - 06:08 AM.

[Adaptogen]

Good point about that.  According to ABC, it is being given in combination with hydroxychloroquine, as a comparative treatment to standalone hcq. Not sure if this is because it is potentially synergystic together, or if the clinical trials are trending toward being ethically obligated to give all participants hydroxychloroquine at this point.

[Dorian Grey]

Good point about that.  According to ABC, it is being given in combination with hydroxychloroquine, as a comparative treatment to standalone hcq. Not sure if this is because it is potentially synergystic together, or if the clinical trials are trending toward being ethically obligated to give all participants hydroxychloroquine at this point.

 

Wash your famotidine down with Tonic Water (quinine!) for an organic form chloroquine/famotidine combo.  Pitifully puny doses, but perhaps in combination they may support each other?  Add a bit of zinc & quercetin/bromelin & perhaps we've got our magic potion.  

 

I'm betting pharmacies & Walmart will be sold out by noon (even online), but supermarkets may be an overlooked source.  Target also pops up.  Set your alarms!  

Edited by Dorian Grey, 27 April 2020 - 06:59 AM.

[lancebr]

Drugs for high blood pressure don’t appear to make COVID-19 worse

 

https://www.sciencen...-19-cases-worse

 

"ACE2 inactivates angiotensin II, regulating the hormone. A study published in the aftermath of the SARS epidemic

reported that ACE2, which is found on lung cells, protected mice from an acute lung injury similar to acute respiratory

distress syndrome — a severe complication of SARS and COVID-19."

 

And with that recent study showing that patients who had higher levels of vitamin D had milder cases compared to people

who had low levels and had more severe cases....gives the idea that higher levels of ACE2 is probably better since Vitamin D

increases the ACE2 expression.

 

Seems like it would be better to increase ACE2 expression, since it inactivates angiotensin II which causes lung damage,

once you catch the virus.

 

Edited by lancebr, 27 April 2020 - 07:48 AM.

[Kalliste]

 

Potential utility of melatonin in deadly infectious diseases related to the overreaction of innate immune response and destructive inflammation: focus on COVID-19 Melatonin in deadly virus infection

• Dunxian X Tan S.T. Bio-Life, San Antonio, TX, USA
• Ruegiger Hardeland Johann Friedrich Blumenbach Institute of Zoology and Anthropology, University of Göttingen, Germany

DOI: https://doi.org/10.32794/mr11250052

Keywords: melatonin, virus, innate immunity, inflammation, COVID-19, SARS, MERS, Avian flu, cytokines

Abstract

 

The high mortality of deadly virus infectious diseases including SARS, MERS, COVID-19, and avian flu is often caused by the uncontrolled innate immune response and destructive inflammation. The majority of viral diseases are self-limiting under the help of the activated adaptive immune system. This activity is cell proliferation dependent and thus, it requires several weeks to develop. Patients are vulnerable and mortality usually occurs during this window period. To control the innate immune response and reduce the inflammation during this period will increase the tolerance of patients and lowers the mortality in the deadly virus infection. Melatonin is a molecule that displays respective properties, since it downregulates the overreaction of the innate immune response and overshooting inflammation, but also promotes the adaptive immune activity. Many studies have reported the beneficial effects of melatonin on deadly virus infections in different animal models and its therapeutic efficacy in septic shock patients. Furthermore, melatonin has a great safety margin without serious adverse effects. We suggest the use of melatonin as an adjunctive or even regular therapy for deadly viral diseases, especially if no efficient direct anti-viral treatment is available.

 

[Kalliste]

Drugs for high blood pressure don’t appear to make COVID-19 worse

 

https://www.sciencen...-19-cases-worse

 

"ACE2 inactivates angiotensin II, regulating the hormone. A study published in the aftermath of the SARS epidemic

reported that ACE2, which is found on lung cells, protected mice from an acute lung injury similar to acute respiratory

distress syndrome — a severe complication of SARS and COVID-19."

 

And with that recent study showing that patients who had higher levels of vitamin D had milder cases compared to people

who had low levels and had more severe cases....gives the idea that higher levels of ACE2 is probably better since Vitamin D

increases the ACE2 expression.

 

Seems like it would be better to increase ACE2 expression, since it inactivates angiotensin II which causes lung damage,

once you catch the virus.

 

I'm going back on aspirin now. Going to break my 500mg pills into 1/4ths and cycle them a bit. That and curcumin/cinnamon is the only DIY blood thinner I can think of (except alcohol?!  ) It is very confusing trying to make sense of the available literature. 

 

 

The plasma levels correlated with the degree of activation of the renin-angiotensin system. Since ACE inhibitors promote the release of vasodilatory prostaglandins, whereas aspirin blocks them through inhibition of the cyclooxygenase system, it is reasonable to hypothesize that the inhibition of prostacyclin synthesis with aspirin would decrease the acute vasodilatory effect of ACE inhibition.

 

 

Furthermore, the ACE is identical to kininase II, the enzyme responsible for breakdown of bradykinin to inactive peptides (Figure). Bradykinins exert a significant role in producing the favorable hemodynamic effects in congestive heart failure (CHF) patients by promoting the formation of vasodilator prostaglandins via activating phospholipase A, an enzyme that cleaves arachidonic acid from membrane phospholipids, as well as nitric oxide synthesis.^[12] Bradykinin is also a direct smooth muscle relaxant and has been shown to be important in attenuating post-infarct ventricular remodeling.^[13,14,15] Its accumulation secondary to ACE inhibition is another potential mechanism for the vasodilatory effect of these agents, a pathway which is not affected by aspirin therapy.^[12,16]

 

It has also been shown that low-dose (≤ 100mg/day) aspirin selectively inhibits platelet thromboxane synthesis without appreciably affecting vasodilatory prostaglandins.

https://www.medscape...rticle/460459_2

 

 

Edited by Kalliste, 27 April 2020 - 10:03 AM.

[sciack]

Well, I believe the conversion was discussing India, not Thailand.

 

https://en.wikipedia...thcare_in_India

 

 

 

  However, if you would prefer to discuss Thailand being your area of expertise instead...

 

https://en.wikipedia...are_in_Thailand

LOL Mr Expert of nothing....

 

Come and see I have been in rural areas as well... they go to hospitals they have them. Plus outbreaks are usually in the cities, see Milan, London, New York, etc where there is more population density. And nobody see hospitals in Thailand with people sick of ARDS. So try again, nobody is hiding COVID-19 in Thailand. maybe instead of 2500 cases we have 25,000 but not millions.

 

And I suspect the same for India, but I can be wrong I never lived there.

 

This disease cannot be hidden it crashes any Health system plus if you hide it it spreads more hence there should be millions of cases and people dying like flies. How can you hide that? It is a joke