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Protecting from Coronavirus - Supplements & Therapies

coronavirus flu disease epidemics viruses immunity covid-19

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#1261 Gal220

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 01:19 PM

I'm going back on aspirin now. Going to break my 500mg pills into 1/4ths and cycle them a bit. That and curcumin/cinnamon is the only DIY blood thinner I can think of (except alcohol?! :) ) It is very confusing trying to make sense of the available literature. 

 

Nattokinase + Serrapeptase - https://drjohnday.co...-blood-thinner/

 

Or you can look for full formulations of proteolytic enzymes - Excellacor , Block buster all clear

 

 

Jon Barron makes this bold claim about protelytic enzymes

 

"Bacteria, viruses, yeasts, and fungi are all protected by proteins. Attacking those proteins is key to destroying the invaders."

 

"Proteolytic enzymes have the ability to digest and destroy the protein based defense shield of each and every pathogen, allergen, and rogue cell, thereby leading to their ultimate elimination. In addition, established cancers reprogram the production of enzymes in the body to both accelerate their own growth and protect themselves from the immune system. Supplemental proteolytic enzymes have the ability to alter that dynamic."

 

Reference - https://www.jonbarro...-enzyme-formula

 

 

 

I take this product - https://www.baseline...i-zymes-450.htm   for controlling scar tissue from a stomach surgery which led to small intestine blockage (sbo -small bowel obstruction).   Good to know if may help with viruses as well...But will certainly thin your blood

 

Omega 3s are also known to thin your blood + reduce inflammation - Linus Pauling Institute recommends them as part of their Covid protocol - https://lpi.oregonst...s-immune-system


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#1262 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 01:29 PM

 

"Proteolytic enzymes have the ability to digest and destroy the protein based defense shield of each and every pathogen, allergen, and rogue cell, thereby leading to their ultimate elimination. In addition, established cancers reprogram the production of enzymes in the body to both accelerate their own growth and protect themselves from the immune system. Supplemental proteolytic enzymes have the ability to alter that dynamic."

 

 

I'd love to see some research that actually backs up that statement.



#1263 Dorian Grey

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 01:59 PM

I'm going back on aspirin now. Going to break my 500mg pills into 1/4ths and cycle them a bit. That and curcumin/cinnamon is the only DIY blood thinner I can think of (except alcohol?! :) ) It is very confusing trying to make sense of the available literature. 

 

Alcohol does thin the blood, but there is rebound thrombocytosis if you wind up in hospital & can't get your hooch.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5559991/

 

"Transient thrombocytopenia and reverse thrombocytosis during alcohol withdrawal are associated with an initial drop in platelet counts"

 

https://jcp.bmj.com/.../3/337.full.pdf

 

"However, by seven to 14 days after withdrawal, compared to controls, all subjects had hyperaggregable platelets"

 

"within a few days of commencing withdrawal, increases in platelet count, platelet aggregability, circulating platelet aggregates and /3 TG concentrations occurred in all subjects. These values peaked significantly above the normal range"

 

This may well explain part of the higher male case fatality rate (more heavy drinkers are male).  Blood turns to mud by first week of withdrawal.  

 

Takeaway: If you're a tippler, avoid hospitalization and continuing some alcohol for "medicinal" purposes may be wise.  


Edited by Dorian Grey, 27 April 2020 - 02:13 PM.

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#1264 Gal220

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 02:13 PM

I'd love to see some research that actually backs up that statement.

 

Doing a little searching, several websites are claiming this - https://www.webnat.c...coronavirus.asp  ,   https://losethebackp...s-with-enzymes/

 

They all seem to quote this one guy - https://www.vitalenz...s_research.html

 

He uses these 2 references in his article

 

10. Jager H.: Hydrolytic Enzymes in the therapy of HIV disease. Zeitschr. Allgemeinmed., 19 (1990), 160 11. Bartsch W.: The treatment of herpes zoster using proteolytic enzymes. Der Informierte Arzt. 2 (1974), 424-429.

 

Like I said, I take them for scar tissue control, but they do clean your blood and work against blood clots which is a concern with Corona.  If they also break the protective protein shield of the virus, great.


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#1265 hotbit

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 02:23 PM

Walking in the fog.

 

Data.

It's highly disappointing how little is known about infection rates and mechanism of the illness.

 

Panic mode all around.

Ventilators now seems as a panic buy, as it recently was with the toilet paper. Chaotic lockdown measures, inadequate PPE and hygiene measures in hospitals, hectic grasping for malaria, heartburn or other drugs.

How virus gets into care homes? Nurses working in several care homes and hospitals simultaneously, most likely.

 

Drugs and supplements.

Taking all the drugs and supplements mentioned in this thread... I would die off of them or become a superman, maybe...

 

Lazy fat people?

Main causes of deaths? Hypertension, diabetes type II, heart problem, high BP. All associated with lack of exercise and excess of junk food, resulting in excess of fat and worsening health. Not to mention CO2, plastic waste and food waste they produce. Should EU put environmental tax on selfish overweight & obese people?

 

Bigger picture?

Since 01/01/2020 to 27/04/2020

 

- World population up by 26 000 000+

- Deaths from malaria and HIV/AIDS - 800 000+

- Road traffic deaths - 400 000+ (plus how many life long injuries?)

- Deaths of children under five - 2 500 000

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=aVevvbFNKiY

 

 

Edit.
P.S. Eat healthy, exercise, take cold showers and you will have at least 100 times lower chance to die due to SARS-CoV-2 than hundreds of other threats.

 


Edited by hotbit, 27 April 2020 - 02:29 PM.

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#1266 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 02:31 PM

Doing a little searching, several websites are claiming this - https://www.webnat.c...coronavirus.asp  ,   https://losethebackp...s-with-enzymes/

 

They all seem to quote this one guy - https://www.vitalenz...s_research.html

 

He uses these 2 references in his article

 

10. Jager H.: Hydrolytic Enzymes in the therapy of HIV disease. Zeitschr. Allgemeinmed., 19 (1990), 160 11. Bartsch W.: The treatment of herpes zoster using proteolytic enzymes. Der Informierte Arzt. 2 (1974), 424-429.

 

Like I said, I take them for scar tissue control, but they do clean your blood and work against blood clots which is a concern with Corona.  If they also break the protective protein shield of the virus, great.

 

 

Unfortunately those are claims, not evidence.

 

Evidence would look something like "We did X to Y and got result Z".  

 

Anyone can make claims all day long, but without evidence do we just take them on faith?


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#1267 Gal220

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 03:32 PM

Unfortunately those are claims, not evidence.

 

Evidence would look something like "We did X to Y and got result Z".  

 

Anyone can make claims all day long, but without evidence do we just take them on faith?

 

Definitely makes a difference on Herpes and HIV, how much on other viruses is certainly questionable.

 

http://www.enzymestu...tionviruses.htm

 

 

https://enzymedica.com/ is suppose to an extensive write up on it but the link is broke, will see if I can turn it up.



#1268 lancebr

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 03:45 PM

I'm going back on aspirin now. Going to break my 500mg pills into 1/4ths and cycle them a bit. That and curcumin/cinnamon is the only DIY blood thinner I can think of (except alcohol?! :) ) It is very confusing trying to make sense of the available literature. 

 

So is aspirin good or bad now?  Seems like everything changes with all these different studies.

 

At least we now know that higher levels of Vitamin D are good for lowering the severity of the virus.



#1269 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 04:14 PM

Definitely makes a difference on Herpes and HIV, how much on other viruses is certainly questionable.
 
http://www.enzymestu...tionviruses.htm
 
 
https://enzymedica.com/ is suppose to an extensive write up on it but the link is broke, will see if I can turn it up.

 
Again, those are claims.  Evidence would be something on PubMed where they did an actual experiment or at least did a statistical analysis of different populations.  Evidence is published in peer reviewed journals and are double blinded with a control population whenever possible.  That purported experiment didn't even establish their criteria for "improvement" beyond people reporting that they were improved.  And I didn't see any control population.
 
Someone claiming something on a website isn't evidence.
 
ETA: Incidentally - at least one of the studies they quoted as supporting the effectiveness of their enzymes actually says exactly the opposite.
 
Oral enzyme therapy for chronic hepatitis C--a retrospective analysis

 

Money quote:

 

CONCLUSION:

6 tablets Phlogenzym per day do not seem to reduce permanently elevated aminotransferases in patients with chronic hepatitis C.

 


Edited by Daniel Cooper, 27 April 2020 - 04:25 PM.

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#1270 joelcairo

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 04:36 PM

So is aspirin good or bad now?  Seems like everything changes with all these different studies.

 

At least we now know that higher levels of Vitamin D are good for lowering the severity of the virus.

 

I'm wondering this too. In addition to thinning the blood by preventing clumping of platelets, it has some effects that make it harder for other cells to attach themselves to platelets, including potentially changing their shape. If COVID-19 can directly attack blood platelets, this may be significant. But I've done several searches in Google and Google Scholar and didn't find much of use.


Edited by joelcairo, 27 April 2020 - 04:37 PM.


#1271 Dorian Grey

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 05:22 PM

A winning therapy I could live with.  

 

https://www.engadget...-163005245.html

 

Grounded aircraft could make ad-hoc hyperbaric chambers for patients.

 

Add a well stocked galley & bar, some attractive attendants to serve me a good selection of movies.  


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#1272 kurdishfella

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 05:40 PM

I have some sort of red rash just under my right hand on the inside. I think this is one of the symptoms of covid-19. I'm pretty sure I already had covid-19 earlier but I have it again which I think is a different strain, hopefully still the weaker of the three. two of them are ''weak'' and one of them is potent. at least that's what I remember haven't done any research for months now maybe more strains?



#1273 Gal220

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 06:03 PM

 
Again, those are claims.  Evidence would be something on PubMed where they did an actual experiment or at least did a statistical analysis of different populations.  Evidence is published in peer reviewed journals and are double blinded with a control population whenever possible.  That purported experiment didn't even establish their criteria for "improvement" beyond people reporting that they were improved.  And I didn't see any control population.

 

One them is on PubMed - https://www.ncbi.nlm.../pubmed/7713467 . But you are right, most of the claims, follow back to that one guy. 



#1274 Gal220

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 06:24 PM

Mercola has an article on H2 therapy, havent seen that one elsewhere yet - https://articles.mer...physiology.aspx

 

They are also covering the quercetin /hydroxy / zinc angle now - https://www.mercola....s-resources.htm



#1275 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 06:31 PM

One them is on PubMed - https://www.ncbi.nlm.../pubmed/7713467 . But you are right, most of the claims, follow back to that one guy.

 
Even that study is poorly designed.  They did a comparison with acyclovir and found no difference in herpes zoster patients after 14 days.  There should have been a control group with no treatment (i.e. placebo). 
 

RESULTS:
In terms of the first end point, "segmental pain", the test groups showed no significant difference either on day 7 or on day 14. Although the second end point "segmental reddening" did reveal a significant difference (p = 0.015) in favor of the acyclovir group on day 14, no significant difference was found for any of the other examination endpoints. Nor did any of the other skin lesions evaluated differ significantly by the end of the study.

CONCLUSIONS:
Overall, the enzyme combination preparation showed identical efficacy with acyclovir. The results of the prior study were thus confirmed. Further investigations on the immunomodulatory potency, dosage and effects on postherpetic herpes neuralgia are, however, still required.
 
The problem with their method is that it's fully possible that acyclovir didn't do anything either.  We don't know the dose of acyclovir they used, but I've got studies that show only a high dose of 800mg 5x per day acyclovir was more effect that placebo in treating herpes zoster.  The standard dose for an adult is normally 200mg 5x per day. So if they dosed at the standard dose (likely) I'm fully prepared to believe that neither  treatment was effective.  So this study probably doesn't tell us anything except that the author wasn't very good at study design.
 
Reference:  Therapy of herpes zoster with oral acyclovir


Edited by Daniel Cooper, 27 April 2020 - 07:00 PM.

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#1276 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 07:00 PM

A winning therapy I could live with.  

 

https://www.engadget...-163005245.html

 

Grounded aircraft could make ad-hoc hyperbaric chambers for patients.

 

Add a well stocked galley & bar, some attractive attendants to serve me a good selection of movies.  

 

Interesting idea.  Can it be done?  

 

At normal cruising altitude (30 ~ 35 kft) they normally pressurize to 8,000 ft which is about 11 psi minus the pressure at altitude (lets call it 4 psi).  So they are at about 7 psi gauge (a little under 0.5 atmosphere). 

 

Two atmospheres would be 14.7 psi gauge (i.e. one atmosphere above the ambient 1 atmosphere).  So about a factor of 2 over normal service. And they are talking about cycling that up and down every 90 minutes. 

 

I'm sure there is safety margin built into those airframes. but cycling at 2x normal service pressure every 90 minutes might be an issue.

 

I do think there may be merit in hyperbaric O2 therapy for covid patients in ARDS, but as they deduce the issue is having enough bed space in hyperbaric oxygen chambers which are neither plentiful nor spacious.  I'm just not sure putting patients in airliners is a good way to do it.

 

I do know that if I got covid and went into ARDS I'm probably rather be put in a hyperbaric O2 chamber than put on a vent, as we know that the outcomes of being put on a ventilator with this disease are statistically not good.


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#1277 Gal220

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 07:15 PM

Walking in the fog.

 

Drugs and supplements.

Taking all the drugs and supplements mentioned in this thread... I would die off of them or become a superman, maybe...

 

Lazy fat people?

Main causes of deaths? Hypertension, diabetes type II, heart problem, high BP. All associated with lack of exercise and excess of junk food, resulting in excess of fat and worsening health. Not to mention CO2, plastic waste and food waste they produce. Should EU put environmental tax on selfish overweight & obese people?

 

 

Maybe a little harsh, but I am mostly with you,  I would add a good multivitamin like Life extensions 2 a day (500mg c, 2000iu D, 20mg zinc, 200 mcg selenium).  I got a quercetin/zinc regimen ready to go if necessary, but thats it.

 

I think the re-opening is going to be a disaster without pushing people to fix their basic immunity deficiencies(Vit D, C, zin) + diet/exercise.


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#1278 Mind

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 07:34 PM

Walking in the fog.

 

Data.

It's highly disappointing how little is known about infection rates and mechanism of the illness.

 

Panic mode all around.

Ventilators now seems as a panic buy, as it recently was with the toilet paper. Chaotic lockdown measures, inadequate PPE and hygiene measures in hospitals, hectic grasping for malaria, heartburn or other drugs.

How virus gets into care homes? Nurses working in several care homes and hospitals simultaneously, most likely.

 

Drugs and supplements.

Taking all the drugs and supplements mentioned in this thread... I would die off of them or become a superman, maybe...

 

Lazy fat people?

Main causes of deaths? Hypertension, diabetes type II, heart problem, high BP. All associated with lack of exercise and excess of junk food, resulting in excess of fat and worsening health. Not to mention CO2, plastic waste and food waste they produce. Should EU put environmental tax on selfish overweight & obese people?

 

Bigger picture?

Since 01/01/2020 to 27/04/2020

 

- World population up by 26 000 000+

- Deaths from malaria and HIV/AIDS - 800 000+

- Road traffic deaths - 400 000+ (plus how many life long injuries?)

- Deaths of children under five - 2 500 000

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=aVevvbFNKiY

 

 

Edit.
P.S. Eat healthy, exercise, take cold showers and you will have at least 100 times lower chance to die due to SARS-CoV-2 than hundreds of other threats.

 

I am with you here as well. Exercise, healthy diet, some supplements, would probably do world of good considering that the vast majority of non-elderly deaths from COVID-19 are in obese people. This type of regimen is very inexpensive as well. Sadly, modern humans just want to ignore the advice and take a magic pill.

 

Like I discussed in this other thread, rescuing frail, obese, and elderly people from COVID-19 with medicine is a daunting task. Something that works in healthy people will not work as well in the vulnerable populations because they have damaged organs and immune systems due to age or lifestyle habits/choices.


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#1279 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 08:12 PM

Walking in the fog.

 

 

.

.

.

 

Edit.
P.S. Eat healthy, exercise, take cold showers and you will have at least 100 times lower chance to die due to SARS-CoV-2 than hundreds of other threats.

 

Cold showers?  I thought saunas were good for covid?  Clearly everything else is correct.  The problem is that if you find yourself in the middle of a covid pandemic and haven't done all those things even if you give it the old college try you will be in a race between getting healthy and getting covid.

 

A good argument to eat healthy and exercise all the time.  


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#1280 pamojja

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 10:17 PM

The problem is that if you find yourself in the middle of a covid pandemic and haven't done all those things even if you give it the old college try you will be in a race between getting healthy and getting covid.

 

Or sort of ironic, having taken an almost daily swim in a cold river since Apr. 6th. And now finding out it already been declining in my regioun since then: https://www.longecit...heories/page-13
 


Edited by pamojja, 27 April 2020 - 10:19 PM.


#1281 Hebbeh

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Posted 28 April 2020 - 01:13 AM

https://www.nytimes....ate-oxford.html

 

In Race for a Coronavirus Vaccine, an Oxford Group Leaps Ahead
 
As scientists at the Jenner Institute prepare for mass clinical trials, new tests show their vaccine to be effective in monkeys.
 
In the worldwide race for a vaccine to stop the coronavirus, the laboratory sprinting fastest is at Oxford University.
 
Most other teams have had to start with small clinical trials of a few hundred participants to demonstrate safety. But scientists at the university’s Jenner Institute had a head start on a vaccine, having proved in previous trials that similar inoculations — including one last year against an earlier coronavirus — were harmless to humans.
 
That has enabled them to leap ahead and schedule tests of their new coronavirus vaccine involving more than 6,000 people by the end of next month, hoping to show not only that it is safe, but also that it works.
 
The Oxford scientists now say that with an emergency approval from regulators, the first few million doses of their vaccine could be available by September — at least several months ahead of any of the other announced efforts — if it proves to be effective.
 
Now, they have received promising news suggesting that it might.
 
Scientists at the National Institutes of Health’s Rocky Mountain Laboratory in Montana last month inoculated six rhesus macaque monkeys with single doses of the Oxford vaccine. The animals were then exposed to heavy quantities of the virus that is causing the pandemic — exposure that had consistently sickened other monkeys in the lab. But more than 28 days later all six were healthy, said Vincent Munster, the researcher who conducted the test.
 
“The rhesus macaque is pretty much the closest thing we have to humans,” Dr. Munster said, noting that scientists were still analyzing the result. He said he expected to share it with other scientists next week and then submit it to a peer-reviewed journal.
 
Rest of article at posted link

 


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#1282 lancebr

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Posted 28 April 2020 - 04:57 AM

Unconventional COVID-19 cures that might actually work:

 

https://www.mdlinx.c...ne/article/6988


Edited by lancebr, 28 April 2020 - 04:57 AM.


#1283 Kalliste

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Posted 28 April 2020 - 05:36 AM

The cultural difference in Covid might in part be due to some dietary aspect... it made me think of fermented Foods? Those are very popular in Germany and South Korea. I bought some fermented salad and sausage to be on the safe side. 

 

 

Cold showers?  I thought saunas were good for covid?  Clearly everything else is correct.  The problem is that if you find yourself in the middle of a covid pandemic and haven't done all those things even if you give it the old college try you will be in a race between getting healthy and getting covid.

 

A good argument to eat healthy and exercise all the time.  

 

One of the theories behind Cryo is that it upregulates the immune system. IIRC there are studies showing that frequent cold showers lower the risk of common cold for instance. But if you are freezing I'm sure that lowers your immune system and makes you more frail in the short term. I over-did (2-3 per day) cold showers one winter and ended up with a bad pain from the groin when Walking and jumping. The DR asked me if I had been Walking around with wet swimming pants or had experienced some other long lasting Cold...  :ph34r: 

It resolved when I cut my showering and focused on sauna.



#1284 smithx

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Posted 28 April 2020 - 05:56 AM

It's interesting that famotidine is being studied (in combination with hydroxychloroquine in this case) based on observations in China that patients on famotidine had better outcomes:

https://www.msn.com/...-19/ar-BB13fflX

 

What's really interesting to me is that famotidine's possible action against SARS-CoV-2 was previously and independently predicted through docking studies:

https://www.scienced...211383520302999

 

This gives me some hope that other docking studies might also find compounds that work. Here's what I've been taking for the past few weeks. Most or all have been discussed here already, but it doesn't hurt to re-post in this new light of possible independent confirmation of one of them (3 docking studies cited below and 2 others). Comments mine:

 

For prophylaxis and initial infection: Viral replication is greatest in the first week when there are less serious symptoms. Final outcomes (death or recovery) seem to depend somewhat or largely on the viral load in this first stage, so it's essential to stop replication as much as possible as soon as possible!:
 
Vitamin D (2500IU per day or higher). Daily doses are prefered over higher weekly doses for various reasons.
Vitamin D status is significantly associated with clinical outcomes. A multinomial logistic regression analysis reported that for each standard deviation increase in serum 25(OH)D, the odds of having a mild clinical outcome rather than a severe outcome were approximately 7.94 times (OR=0.126, p<0.001) while interestingly, the odds of having a mild clinical outcome rather than a critical outcome were approximately 19.61 times (OR=0.051, p<0.001). The results suggest that an increase in serum 25(OH)D level in the body could either improve clinical outcomes or mitigate worst (severe to critical) outcomes, while a decrease in serum 25(OH)D level in the body could worsen clinical outcomes of COVID-2019 patients.
 
Quercetin (dosing of 500mg 2x/d for prophylaxis or 500mg or more 4x/d if there's an active infection) seems promising for several reasons. It was found in this study to have high affinity to the spike protein of covid-19. It's also a zinc ionophore (like hydroxychloroquine with out the side effects). This is also the subject of clinical studies.
Luteolin is also noted to have even slightly higher binding affinity:
Zinc supplementation is indicated too and may work with quercetin to inhibit viral replication, 40mg/d for prophylaxis, 80mg/d for active infection.
From the ranking, 47 ligands were found to form S- protein:ACE2 interface-ligand binding complexes with scores equal to or better than the score threshold (Vina score better and -7 kcal/mol)
 
This docking study found that Sylibinin (from milk thistle) and also quercetin (among others) could be effective against covid-19 by targeting its main protease.
 
Of the compounds found in this study to be likely of benefit against covid-19, the ones most broadly indicated that is also available as a supplement are hesperidin, neohesperidin, and Andrographiside (from andrographis). This study also found Famotidine (Pepcid) to possibly be useful.
 
This is probably most useful during an infection and especially in the 2nd week. The second week is when people usually progress to serious disease if it's going to happen. At this point there's less viral replication (so that ship may have sailed, if you didn't prevent it earlier), and now it's time to damp down immune overreaction, etc.:
 
Melatonin 40mg to 80mg (in divided doses) is being used with some success to treat covid-19. This study indicated that it might work. Melatonin also downregulates bradykinin which could reduce the capillary leakage which has recently been suggested to be responsible for some of the morbidity and perhaps fatalities. It is currently being used with reported success in several places:
Melatonin was reported in potential antiviral infection via its anti-inflammatory and antioxidant effects58,59,60,61,62. Melatonin indirectly regulates ACE2 expression, a key entry receptor involved in viral infection of HCoVs, including 2019-nCoV/SARS-CoV-2 (ref. 33). Specifically, melatonin was reported to inhibit calmodulin and calmodulin interacts with ACE2 by inhibiting shedding of its ectodomain, a key infectious process of SARS-CoV72,73. JUN, also known as c-Jun, is a key host protein involving in HCoV infectious bronchitis virus74. As shown in Fig. 6d, mercaptopurine and melatonin may synergistically block c-Jun signaling by targeting multiple cellular targets. In summary, combination of mercaptopurine and melatonin may offer a potential combination therapy for 2019-nCoV/SARS-CoV-2 by synergistically targeting papain-like protease, ACE2, c-Jun signaling, and anti-inflammatory pathways (Fig. 6d).

 

 


Edited by smithx, 28 April 2020 - 06:17 AM.

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#1285 lancebr

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Posted 28 April 2020 - 06:11 AM

 

It's interesting that famotidine is being studied (in combination with hydroxychloroquine in this case) based on observations in China that patients on famotidine had better outcomes:

https://www.msn.com/...-19/ar-BB13fflX

 

What's interesting is that famotidine's possible action against SARS-CoV-2 was previously and independently predicted through docking studies:

https://www.scienced...211383520302999

 

This gives me some hope that other docking studies might also find compounds that work. Here's what I've been taking for the past few weeks. Most or all have been discussed here already, but it doesn't hurt to re-post in this new light of possible independent confirmation of one of them (3 docking studies cited below and 2 others). Comments mine:

 

For prophylaxis and initial infection: Viral replication is greatest in the first week when there are less serious symptoms. Final outcomes (death or recovery) seem to depend somewhat or largely on the viral load in this first stage, so it's essential to stop replication as much as possible as soon as possible!:
 
Vitamin D (2500IU per day or higher). Daily doses are prefered over higher weekly doses for various reasons.
Vitamin D status is significantly associated with clinical outcomes. A multinomial logistic regression analysis reported that for each standard deviation increase in serum 25(OH)D, the odds of having a mild clinical outcome rather than a severe outcome were approximately 7.94 times (OR=0.126, p<0.001) while interestingly, the odds of having a mild clinical outcome rather than a critical outcome were approximately 19.61 times (OR=0.051, p<0.001). The results suggest that an increase in serum 25(OH)D level in the body could either improve clinical outcomes or mitigate worst (severe to critical) outcomes, while a decrease in serum 25(OH)D level in the body could worsen clinical outcomes of COVID-2019 patients.
 
Quercetin (dosing of 500mg 2x/d for prophylaxis or 500mg or more 4x/d if there's an active infection) seems promising for several reasons. It was found in this study to have high affinity to the spike protein of covid-19. It's also a zinc ionophore (like hydroxychloroquine with out the side effects). This is also the subject of clinical studies.
Luteolin is also noted to have even slightly higher binding affinity:
Zinc supplementation is indicated too and may work with quercetin to inhibit viral replication, 40mg/d for prophylaxis, 80mg/d for active infection.
From the ranking, 47 ligands were found to form S- protein:ACE2 interface-ligand binding complexes with scores equal to or better than the score threshold (Vina score better and -7 kcal/mol)
 
This docking study found that Sylibinin (from milk thistle) and also quercetin (among others) could be effective against covid-19 by targeting its main protease.
 
Of the compounds found in this study to be likely of benefit against covid-19, the ones most broadly indicated that is also available as a supplement are hesperidin, neohesperidin, and Andrographiside (from andrographis). This study also found Famotidine (Pepcid) to possibly be useful.
 
This is probably most useful during an infection and especially in the 2nd week. The second week is when people usually progress to serious disease if it's going to happen. At this point there's less viral replication (so that ship may have sailed, if you didn't prevent it earlier), and now it's time to damp down immune overreaction, etc.:
 
Melatonin 40mg to 80mg (in divided doses) is being used with some success to treat covid-19. This study indicated that it might work. Melatonin also downregulates bradykinin which could reduce the capillary leakage which has recently been suggested to be responsible for some of the morbidity and perhaps fatalities. It is currently being used with reported success in several places:
Melatonin was reported in potential antiviral infection via its anti-inflammatory and antioxidant effects58,59,60,61,62. Melatonin indirectly regulates ACE2 expression, a key entry receptor involved in viral infection of HCoVs, including 2019-nCoV/SARS-CoV-2 (ref. 33). Specifically, melatonin was reported to inhibit calmodulin and calmodulin interacts with ACE2 by inhibiting shedding of its ectodomain, a key infectious process of SARS-CoV72,73. JUN, also known as c-Jun, is a key host protein involving in HCoV infectious bronchitis virus74. As shown in Fig. 6d, mercaptopurine and melatonin may synergistically block c-Jun signaling by targeting multiple cellular targets. In summary, combination of mercaptopurine and melatonin may offer a potential combination therapy for 2019-nCoV/SARS-CoV-2 by synergistically targeting papain-like protease, ACE2, c-Jun signaling, and anti-inflammatory pathways (Fig. 6d).

 

 

Ginger seems to also be thought of as a potent paipan-like protease inhibitor.  That is the same protease that famotidine supposedly works on:

 

https://chemrxiv.org...tors/12071997/1

 

 

 


Edited by lancebr, 28 April 2020 - 06:13 AM.


#1286 lancebr

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Posted 28 April 2020 - 09:14 AM

Better watch out when using public toilets:

 

Coronavirus Lingers in Air of Crowded Spaces, New Study Finds

 

https://www.bloomber...new-study-finds

 

Also read that the virus appears to be in fecal matter and when you flush the toilet the aerosol spray from the toilet

water can spread it through out the toilet area.



#1287 Gal220

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Posted 28 April 2020 - 02:23 PM

 

https://www.nytimes....ate-oxford.html

 

Scientists at the National Institutes of Health’s Rocky Mountain Laboratory in Montana last month inoculated six rhesus macaque monkeys with single doses of the Oxford vaccine. The animals were then exposed to heavy quantities of the virus that is causing the pandemic — exposure that had consistently sickened other monkeys in the lab. But more than 28 days later all six were healthy, said Vincent Munster, the researcher who conducted the test.

 

 

Sounds really promising.  One does have to wonder why we cant get this kind of test results back already for HCQ+zinc or Quercetin+zinc?  Especially the latter as it is already widely available, crazy.


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#1288 DanCG

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Posted 28 April 2020 - 02:29 PM

Sounds really promising.  One does have to wonder why we cant get this kind of test results back already for HCQ+zinc or Quercetin+zinc?  Especially the latter as it is already widely available, crazy.

Monkeys are really expensive. Nobody will do this experiment to prove the efficacy of a cheap generic drug or supplement. So we will forever be told there's no proof.


Edited by DanCG, 28 April 2020 - 02:30 PM.

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#1289 Gal220

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Posted 28 April 2020 - 02:35 PM

Monkeys are really expensive. Nobody will do this experiment to prove the efficacy of a cheap generic drug or supplement. So we will forever be told there's no proof.

 

There are trials underway, but you have to give these guys credit for not only developing the vaccine but getting the results back before anyone else.

 

https://www.cbc.ca/r...china-1.5480134


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#1290 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 28 April 2020 - 03:03 PM

Monkeys are really expensive. Nobody will do this experiment to prove the efficacy of a cheap generic drug or supplement. So we will forever be told there's no proof.

 

Indeed, they are very expensive.

 

Also, using primates as experimental subjects fell out of favor starting in the late 1980s.  After a few media exposés it became very politically incorrect to do medical testing on primates. And, in some cases these animals were kept in poor conditions or used for frivolous experiments.  

 

So, for reasons of cost and public opinion we mostly test on rats and mice these days.  But, as everyone here knows, rodents are frequently poor analogs of how a treatment or drug will behave in a human.  As this test shows, when it's really important, really urgent, and you really need to know if something will work in a human, primates are your best bet.


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