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Protecting from Coronavirus - Supplements & Therapies

coronavirus flu disease epidemics viruses immunity covid-19

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#1291 DanCG

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Posted 28 April 2020 - 03:09 PM

There are trials underway, but you have to give these guys credit for not only developing the vaccine but getting the results back before anyone else.

 

https://www.cbc.ca/r...china-1.5480134

Interesting link about quercetin. Thanks for posting. It was first published on Feb 28 and they predicted that it would take 60 days to get interpretable results. But they did not say that the trial had already started then, and it looks like they did not have the funding at that time. If the trial did get started, and the powers that be let the results see the light of day, we might hear something soon.



#1292 gamesguru

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Posted 28 April 2020 - 04:18 PM

Found this about turmeric,

In Vivo. 2015 Jan-Feb;29(1):1-4.
Curcumin suppression of cytokine release and cytokine storm. A potential therapy for patients with Ebola and other severe viral infections.
Abstract
BACKGROUND:

The terminal stage of Ebola and other viral diseases is often the onset of a cytokine storm, the massive overproduction of cytokines by the body's immune system.

MATERIALS AND METHODS:

The actions of curcumin in suppressing cytokine release and cytokine storm are discussed.

RESULTS:

Curcumin blocks cytokine release, most importantly the key pro-inflammatory cytokines, interleukin-1, interleukin-6 and tumor necrosis factor-α. The suppression of cytokine release by curcumin correlates with clinical improvement in experimental models of disease conditions where a cytokine storm plays a significant role in mortality.

CONCLUSION:

The use of curcumin should be investigated in patients with Ebola and cytokine storm. Intravenous formulations may allow achievement of therapeutic blood levels of curcumin.

Copyright © 2015 International Institute of Anticancer Research (Dr. John G. Delinassios), All rights reserved.

 

And common mushrooms,

Immune Modulation From Five Major Mushrooms: Application to Integrative Oncology

Many studies have been conducted to elucidate the antitumor mechanisms of mushrooms. Rather than providing a summarization for each study in the text, this article provides Table 3, which summarizes cytokine modulation and the resulting pattern produced from Agaricus, maitake, reishi, Cordyceps, and turkey tail mushrooms

 

When associated with cancer, proinflammatory cytokines can contribute to inflammatory symptoms. These cytokines are released early in the immune response to infectious agents and are responsible for driving fever and stimulating the innate immune system. Many symptoms related to sickness—malaise, anxiety, and hostility, which are observed during infection are a result of these cytokines.310 For example, radiotherapy increases IL-1, IL-6, and TNF-α.11,12 A recent quantitative review of 1037 patients with cancer-related fatigue that partially resulted from radiotherapy demonstrated that IL-6 and IL-1RA were associated with fatigue; however, IL-1β and TNF-α were not linked to fatigue.13

 

In summary, when considering immunomodulatory effects of mushrooms, those that stimulate TH1 responses may be beneficial in cancer treatment, as are those that decrease TH2 and Treg responses. Mushrooms that decrease inflammation may have the added benefit of decreasing fatigue, anxiety, and other symptoms by decreasing inflammatory cytokines.


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#1293 Mind

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Posted 28 April 2020 - 09:28 PM

Pluristem treated one patient in the U.S. which apparently turned out successful, and have apparently treated a few more in the U.S. recently.

 

They also have received $50 million from the EIB to continue testing their stem cell platform against COVID.



#1294 Gal220

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Posted 28 April 2020 - 09:37 PM

Found this about turmeric,

 

And common mushrooms,

 

Does anyone have a strong recommendation for curcumin? It has to be the most confusing supplement out there.

 

This webpage is slanted towards the c3/pepper combo, but it still gives a good overview of whats out there.

 

https://pureprescrip...rcumin-product/

 

Life extension thinks they have something with their new fenugreek/curcumin(but doesnt everyone) - https://www.lifeexte...rcumin-turmeric

 

Two of the best supplement companies, Thorne and Jarrow, use Meriva.

 

Personally I lean towards Sport Research's c3/coconut oil/pepper combo, but it is a maze of information out there.


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#1295 Dorian Grey

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Posted 28 April 2020 - 11:39 PM

I read a clinical trial that used C3 Curcumin for PSC (liver) disease (with good results!).  I initially was spooked by the piperine, because besides enhancing absorption it also inhibits metabolism of curcumin in the liver.  I went with Life Extension's "Super-Bio Curcumin" which is "micronized" for enhanced absorption.  

 

A while later a member here dug up a legitimate looking paper that said the piperine content of curcumin/piperine combo didn't amount to much more than a good grind of black pepper on your salad.  I'm not afraid of piperine anymore, but stuck with LE's Super-Bio simply because it seemed to work well.  Turned my stool noticeably darker (curcumin is supposed to increase bile flow).  

 

Don't know if you need to spend extra for a combo (fenugreek/cu).  Only thought on piperine is that too much black pepper bothers my colon, & some have reported they "couldn't take curcumin because it gave them diarrhea", which the pip-free stuff has never done to me.  



#1296 DanCG

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Posted 29 April 2020 - 12:37 AM

 I initially was spooked by the piperine, because besides enhancing absorption it also inhibits metabolism of curcumin in the liver.

 

It's complicated, but curcumin is the active form compared to its liver metabolites. Inhibiting liver metabolism of curcumin would increase its half-life. That's a feature, not a bug.

Of course, drug interaction is always a concern.  Piperine, curcumin, and just about any other plant-derived supplement you can think of will inhibit or induce one P450 isozyme or another. I always search (new supplement + P450) and (current medication or supplement +P450) before trying something new.


Edited by DanCG, 29 April 2020 - 12:38 AM.


#1297 lancebr

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Posted 29 April 2020 - 05:40 AM

Does anyone have a strong recommendation for curcumin? It has to be the most confusing supplement out there.

 

This webpage is slanted towards the c3/pepper combo, but it still gives a good overview of whats out there.

 

https://pureprescrip...rcumin-product/

 

Life extension thinks they have something with their new fenugreek/curcumin(but doesnt everyone) - https://www.lifeexte...rcumin-turmeric

 

Two of the best supplement companies, Thorne and Jarrow, use Meriva.

 

Personally I lean towards Sport Research's c3/coconut oil/pepper combo, but it is a maze of information out there.

 

Is there any truth to the statement in that one article that Longvida can produce TMAO and cardio vascular disease because it contains phosphatidylcholine lecithin?

 

I though Longvida was one of the better formulations to take
 


Edited by lancebr, 29 April 2020 - 05:50 AM.


#1298 Dorian Grey

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Posted 29 April 2020 - 06:28 AM

Is there any truth to the statement in that one article that Longvida can produce TMAO and cardio vascular disease because it contains phosphatidylcholine lecithin?

 

I though Longvida was one of the better formulations to take
 

 

Chris Masterjohn offered a great rebuttal to the lecithin/heart disease theory.  He showed urinary TMAO was much higher from seafood consumption than from lecithin, so if lecithin is bad, seafood consumption would be dreadful.  Japanese are big seafood eaters, and live longer than about anyone else in the industrialized world.  

 

Sorry, no link, but I'm working from memory and on my second gin & tonic.  Time for bed!  Oh wait, here it is:

 

https://chriskresser...-heart-disease/

 

 Night all.  


Edited by Dorian Grey, 29 April 2020 - 06:31 AM.

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#1299 joelcairo

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Posted 29 April 2020 - 07:14 AM

I think plain curcumin with/without pepper works fine. It's hard to prove absorption, but I have no doubt it gets absorbed and has a noticeable effect. Meriva also seems to be a good product and is not too expensive. There's something caller UltraCur, which contains curcumin bound to whey protein, and is claims such a huge improvement in bioavailability (14,000 times) that I'm almost afraid to take it. IMO that must be a huge exaggeration of its actual biological effect, which is a good thing because nobody need that much.

 

I'm sure there are multiple threads on curcumin in the Supplements forum.



#1300 Kalliste

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Posted 29 April 2020 - 08:05 AM

Use the fresh turmeric roots and eat it the way people do traditionally with curry powder. Preferably create your own curry powder from the fresh ingredients. I am sure every single ingredient (garlic, onion, fennel, black pepper, bell peppers, )has anti viral and anti biotic properties, and that the final combination is more bioavailable and create synergies that reduce the need for huge bio-availabilities in the first place. 

 

 

Attached Files


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#1301 Gal220

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Posted 29 April 2020 - 01:27 PM

Is there any truth to the statement in that one article that Longvida can produce TMAO and cardio vascular disease because it contains phosphatidylcholine lecithin?

 

I though Longvida was one of the better formulations to take
 

 

This article highlights the importance of "free curcumin" (google search with the quotes) and recommends Longvida, but also admits the studies for it are "murky at best".

 

http://www.cancermin...id-formulation/

 

 

Just when you think you have heard it all, Medcram has a video out about "forest bathing" to increase immunity.

 

https://articles.mer...st-bathing.aspx


Edited by Gal220, 29 April 2020 - 01:28 PM.


#1302 gamesguru

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Posted 29 April 2020 - 02:09 PM

Turmeric gets metabolized quickly in the liver and intestinal walls.  Nano-emulsions get around this because they are 99% absorbed in the esophagus and stomach which don't have the same enzymes.  Unfortunately they require special equipment, and have a weirdness factor attached to them.  You can find the same technology being applied to Cannabis tinctures.

 

The other approach everyone knows about is combining it with "black pepper", because piperine, a known inhibitor of hepatic and intestinal glucuronidation, allows for the buildup in the bloodstream of turmeric.  Caution is urged—as with grapefruit—because pepper can prevent medicines from breaking down by slowing down the liver.

 

 

Despite all the hubbub over garlic and essential oils and citrus fruits, any in vitro "anti-viral" activity likely only occurs far above real-life concentrations.  An average 70kg male needs around 100 cloves of garlic per day worth of diallyl disulfide[1] to inhibit the common influenza and herpes virus.

 

In contrast, the immune-stimulating β glucans in common mushrooms are able to facilitate a whole-of-immune-system boost at a dose of 50-400mg, and the Vitamin D2 you can get by exposing them to sunlight or UV light for 8 hours is active at 1000 times lower concentration.. in the microgram range.

 

I ultimately found white buttons and shiitakes better for allergies than the quercetin in capers/red onions.  The two compliment each other, actually.

 

Mushrooms contain many bioactive components including polysaccharides, glycoproteins, proteins, lipids, and secondary metabolites [1]. Polysaccharides composed of glucose, mannose, galactose, fucose, arabinose, glucuronic acid, and β-d-glucan are the most potent substances of mushrooms that show demonstrable beneficial properties such as antioxidant [2], immune-stimulatory [3,4] lipid lowering [5,6], and anti-tumor activity [7,8,9].

 

However, when discussing the biological activities of whole mushroom or its extracts, chemical structure, and extraction protocols need to be considered as water extracts usually activate immune cells whereas ethanol extracts inhibit them [10]. Thus, processing of the mushroom may determine the effect produced on immune cells, possibly due to different solubility and potency of specific compounds [10,11]. Edible mushrooms have been studied extensively for their immune modulating properties in animal models including β-glucan-induced anti-inflammatory effects [3,12], enhanced NK cell activity [11,13], improved dendritic cell (DC) maturation and function [14], increased cytokine production [15], increased protective immunity from Salmonella vaccination [16], and anti-inflammatory effects in patients with ulcerative colitis and Crohn’s disease [17,18,19,20].

 

Health promoting prebiotic effect has been shown after feeding some medicinal [21,22] and white button (WB)-raw mushrooms [23,24,25] in animal models.

 

The gastrointestinal (GI) microbiota perform numerous biological activities for the host [26] including facilitating nutrient availability, energy harvest and carbohydrate metabolism, and processing indigestible plant components [27]. Metabolic enzymes encoded in microbial genomes and released in the intestine will degrade dietary polysaccharides into short chain fatty acids (SCFA) that induce systemic anti-inflammatory activities on the host [25,28] and synthesize essential amino acids and vitamins [29].

 

For a while there was also a lot of talk about Agaricus blazei—God's or the Almond mushroom—but there's not enough evidence to prefer one over the other, there seems to be a lot of overlap.


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#1303 Gal220

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Posted 29 April 2020 - 03:37 PM

 I ultimately found white buttons and shiitakes better for allergies than the quercetin in capers/red onions.  The two compliment each other, actually.

 

 

Im pretty uninformed on the mushroom front, do you think Andrew Weil/ Integrative medicine is right about taking Mycelium mushrooms?

 

https://integrativem...OVID19/FAQ.html  (they also have a video, page 40 - 3rd post)

 

"Q: What is the reasoning behind stopping medicinal mushrooms if sick with COVID-19?

A: What our strategies specifically suggest is to stop isolated polysaccharides extracted from mushrooms. These would include isolated 1, 3 beta-glucan, lentinan, etc. The reason for this is that these isolated polysaccharides have been shown to increase IL-1b, a key cytokine involved in the inflammatory response to Covid19 infection and to its virulence. On the other hand, mushroom and mycelium extracts (not the isolated polysaccharides) contain a broad array of compounds which generate an immunoregulatory response that both increases and decreases various cytokines. The end result appears to be a reduction of inflammation, a benefit during covid-19 infection."


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#1304 lancebr

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Posted 29 April 2020 - 04:29 PM

Dr. Anthony Fauci says data from remdesivir coronavirus drug trial shows ‘quite good news’

 

https://www.cnbc.com...-good-news.html

 

Some on the internet argue that Gileads trial design was not good enough to get a definite answer one way or the other.

 

 

China says it didn't work:

 

https://www.thelance...1022-9/fulltext

 

https://www.wsj.com/...iod-11588166509


Edited by lancebr, 29 April 2020 - 05:08 PM.

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#1305 Gal220

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Posted 29 April 2020 - 05:33 PM

Interesting link about quercetin. Thanks for posting. It was first published on Feb 28 and they predicted that it would take 60 days to get interpretable results. But they did not say that the trial had already started then, and it looks like they did not have the funding at that time. If the trial did get started, and the powers that be let the results see the light of day, we might hear something soon.

 

The govt has already done trial work on quercetin as it relates to the flu and the covid virus replicates in a similar way - https://www.lewrockw...y-than-tamiflu/

 

Just seems like there would be more of push to try it, and its probably far more effective if taken early. Its only your life at stake...  The Canadian doctor is well respected, I expect he is going over to China to test it on more than a mere hunch.  In the meantime we have had several thousands die and read stories like this one.  

 

https://www.foxnews....oronavirus-dies

 

 

On top of that, even sites like reddit are censoring discussion.

 

I dont know for sure if google is white washing its searches or not, in all my searches about CoVid, I never found a link to Longecity, Life Extension, Mercola, or Andrew Weil.  I had to go directly to the sites to see if there was any info.

 

Google is getting called out for removing videos - https://www.foxnews....rus-free-speech


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#1306 Iporuru

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Posted 29 April 2020 - 05:39 PM

Nanotechnology might help fight deadly 'cytokine storm' of COVID-19

Couvreur's team created "multi-drug nanoparticles" by adding adenosine to squalene, a type of fat also found naturally in the body. Then they "encapsulated" both in the powerful antioxidant alpha-tocopherol, a type of vitamin E.

Using this nanotechnology approach, the researchers then delivered the compounds to the tissues of mice who were in hyperinflammatory states such as sepsis (blood infection) or an immunological state resembling the typical "cytokine storm" of COVID-19.

The result: A notable decrease in tissues of a key pro-inflammatory cytokine called tumor necrosis factor alpha, along with a concurrent rise in levels of an anti-inflammatory cytokine called interleukin-10, the researchers reported.

 

 

Research article here:

Squalene-based multidrug nanoparticles for improved mitigation of uncontrolled inflammation

 



#1307 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 29 April 2020 - 06:03 PM

 

On top of that, even sites like reddit are censoring discussion.

 

 

reddit has never been a bastion of free and open discussion and has always had a strong element of groupthink, which is why it is important that sites like longecity.org continue to be supported.



#1308 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 29 April 2020 - 06:13 PM

The study on veterans was mostly patients who were elderly and already on ventilators. I doubt there is anything that would improve there chances.

 

On thing is becoming clear, hydroxychloroquine alone and administered to severe covid cases does not help, but most people here would have said that from the beginning.

 

That study was worse than that.  It was a retrospective study that did not randomize between the two arms on the front end.  What they did is they looked at covid patients in the VA system - those that had received hyroxychloroquine and those that had not.  As we know, those that had received hydroxychloroquine had a worse outcome than those that did not.

 

However, they did not and likely could not account for the fact that those that had received hydroxychloroquine were almost certainly much sicker than those that had not.  You don't give patients a controversial unproven treatment unless they are very sick and not likely to survive.  This was considered to be a Hail Marry pass. So the very worst off patients were selected to receive the drug.  It is absolutely predictable that this group would fair worse than the untreated group even if HCQ had a pretty substantial positive effect.  Clearly anyone in the medical field should be aware of that going into it.    

 

 


Edited by Daniel Cooper, 29 April 2020 - 06:13 PM.

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#1309 Gal220

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Posted 29 April 2020 - 06:36 PM

Optimal zinc? I agree with most of what the Functional Medicine Institute recommends, but they are suggesting upwards of 60mgs of zinc.

 

https://www.ifm.org/...tanical-agents/

 

Ive never seen anyone recommend more than 40mg total (diet + food).   Maybe they just intended this dosage if symptoms occur, seems unclear.



#1310 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 29 April 2020 - 06:46 PM

Optimal zinc? I agree with most of what the Functional Medicine Institute recommends, but they are suggesting upwards of 60mgs of zinc.

 

https://www.ifm.org/...tanical-agents/

 

Ive never seen anyone recommend more than 40mg total (diet + food).   Maybe they just intended this dosage if symptoms occur, seems unclear.

 

After much study I arrived at a similar conclusion to you. Based on a preponderance of the evidence I concluded that I probably shouldn't supplement more than 30 mg of zinc per day, allowing about 10 mg of consumption from food.  In fact, 20 ~ 25 mg would probably be better for someone of my body weight, but that is difficult to find in a supplement.  

 

I don't think 50 ~ 60 mg per day would be a problem for the couple of weeks you might be in a covid crisis, but I certainly would not want to do that routinely. 



#1311 Gal220

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Posted 29 April 2020 - 08:37 PM

Medcram guy also agrees, he would do 50mg only if he thought he had the virus.  He gives his full regimen here.   Hate to see people recommend vitamin D without K2, calcium, magnesium

 

Coronavirus Pandemic Update 59: Dr. Seheult's Daily Regimen (Vitamin D, C, Zinc, Quercetin, NAC)

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=NM2A2xNLWR4  

 



#1312 gamesguru

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Posted 29 April 2020 - 09:14 PM

Im pretty uninformed on the mushroom front, do you think Andrew Weil/ Integrative medicine is right about taking Mycelium mushrooms?

 

I think it's interesting, but Dr. Weil may have outsmarted himself on this point.  If whole mushrooms are effective with auto-immune diseases—which involve excessive cytokines—I think they should be also safe for COVID patients.  Granted, when strapped to a hospital bed and intubated, you don't have much choice in the matter.



#1313 Gal220

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Posted 29 April 2020 - 11:13 PM

I am with you here as well. Exercise, healthy diet, some supplements, would probably do world of good considering that the vast majority of non-elderly deaths from COVID-19 are in obese people. This type of regimen is very inexpensive as well. Sadly, modern humans just want to ignore the advice and take a magic pill.

 

Like I discussed in this other thread, rescuing frail, obese, and elderly people from COVID-19 with medicine is a daunting task. Something that works in healthy people will not work as well in the vulnerable populations because they have damaged organs and immune systems due to age or lifestyle habits/choices.

 

I confess, if I was over 60, I would be doing much more than a multivitamin. 

 

Chris Kesser mentions Collagen and I would add digestive enzymes at a minimum.  Probably something the health conscious are already doing.

 

https://chriskresser...your-questions/



#1314 lancebr

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Posted 29 April 2020 - 11:28 PM

I confess, if I was over 60, I would be doing much more than a multivitamin. 

 

Chris Kesser mentions Collagen and I would add digestive enzymes at a minimum.  Probably something the health conscious are already doing.

 

https://chriskresser...your-questions/

 

So he is another one that believes that high doses of Vitamin D are bad. 

 

Well the most recent study to come out shows that people with higher levels of Vitamin D had better

outcomes than people with lower levels of Vitamin D.

 

https://papers.ssrn....ract_id=3571484

 

 

 


Edited by lancebr, 29 April 2020 - 11:32 PM.


#1315 Gal220

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Posted 30 April 2020 - 12:08 AM

So he is another one that believes that high doses of Vitamin D are bad. 

 

Well the most recent study to come out shows that people with higher levels of Vitamin D had better

outcomes than people with lower levels of Vitamin D.

 

https://papers.ssrn....ract_id=3571484

 

Chris MasterJohn and Andrew Weil also.

 

https://www.lesswron...onavirus-part-1

https://www.lesswron...onavirus-part-2

 

I thought the article was a litttle vague, maybe I missed something?

 

"Mean serum 25(OH)D level was 23.8 ng/ml. Serum 25(OH)D level was lowest in critical cases, but highest in mild cases."

 

MasterJohn is recommending 30 ng/ml by taking 900IU.  



#1316 lancebr

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Posted 30 April 2020 - 12:29 AM

Chris MasterJohn and Andrew Weil also.

 

https://www.lesswron...onavirus-part-1

https://www.lesswron...onavirus-part-2

 

I thought the article was a litttle vague, maybe I missed something?

 

"Mean serum 25(OH)D level was 23.8 ng/ml. Serum 25(OH)D level was lowest in critical cases, but highest in mild cases."

 

MasterJohn is recommending 30 ng/ml by taking 900IU.  

 

Yeh Masterjohn changed his tune....at first he was saying no vitamin D supplementation then after he

saw this study he now says to take some Vitamin D.

 

The numbers for the study was the following:

 

 

Vitamin D levels ng/mL :

 

"Among mild cases, it was, on average, 31.2; among ordinary cases, it was 27.4;

among severe cases, it was 21.2; among critical cases, it was 17.1."

 

So it is apparent that the higher the D levels the better the outcome.  Some doctors believe the

optimal D levels are between 50 to 70 ng/ml.  So would having even higher levels than the mild

cases average of 31.2 ng/ml provide even better outcomes.

 

The people you listed believe that too much vitamin D will increase the expression of ACE2 causing the

virus to infect more and cause a worse outcome. The study does not back up their theory.

 



#1317 Dorian Grey

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Posted 30 April 2020 - 12:35 AM

Dr. Anthony Fauci says data from remdesivir coronavirus drug trial shows ‘quite good news’

 

https://www.cnbc.com...-good-news.html

 

Some on the internet argue that Gileads trial design was not good enough to get a definite answer one way or the other.

 

 

China says it didn't work:

 

https://www.thelance...1022-9/fulltext

 

https://www.wsj.com/...iod-11588166509

 

Chris Martenson has a fantastic review of all the remdesivir news here (starting at minute 4 of the show)

 

https://youtu.be/VscMiksyfW4?t=244

 

I must say I'm SHOCKED at the blatant preference / bias from Fauci towards this expensive alternative to HCQ.  NO difference in overall mortality is "quite good news"?  REALLY?  Read in another article 23% of patients on remdesivir in one trial showed signs of liver damage.  

 

We live in interesting times!  



#1318 lancebr

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Posted 30 April 2020 - 12:45 AM

Chris Martenson has a fantastic review of all the remdesivir news here (starting at minute 4 of the show)

 

https://youtu.be/VscMiksyfW4?t=244

 

I must say I'm SHOCKED at the blatant preference / bias from Fauci towards this expensive alternative to HCQ.  NO difference in overall mortality is "quite good news"?  REALLY?  Read in another article 23% of patients on remdesivir in one trial showed signs of liver damage.  

 

We live in interesting times!  

 

Well at least one good thing that happen because of Fauci's weird fawning over that drug was

that some analyst believe it was his comments that caused the stock market to go up around

500 points.  They said it gave the market reassurance that there was some type of treatment.

 

It was weird that he said what he said knowing that their are conflicting studies that show it doesn't work.



#1319 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 30 April 2020 - 12:52 AM

I would say that from what I've seen the trial results on remdesivir have been about as mixed as they have been on hydroxychloroquine.  So I too found Fauci's enthusiasm for it to be a bit odd.   Of course Gilead stands to see their stock take off like a rocket if they become the go to treatment for covid so maybe it's not so surprising.

 

In any case, I hope one of these compounds works and brings the fatality rate down.

 

 



#1320 joelcairo

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Posted 30 April 2020 - 01:10 AM

Agree about Remdesivir. Even the results of the positive study were quite underwhelming.

 


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