3083 replies to this topic

[gamesguru]

Did you actually read that VA study?

 

It was a non-randomized, non-controlled study that looked at patient mortality retrospectively - those than had received hydroxychloroquine versus those that had not.

 

Now tell, what might be wrong about that methodology?

 

I'm sure the US has its agendas for whatever sick reason.  But that doesn't automatically make it wrong or right.

 

There simply have not been that many patients treated with HCQ, around 2300.. and not in controlled or reproduced settings.

"To date, the total number of reported patients treated with HCQ, with or without zinc and the widely used antibiotic azithromycin, is 2,333, writes AAPS, in observational data from China, France, South Korea, Algeria, and the U.S."

 

And for every example like Costa Rica or Morocco that has a low death rate, and is using HCQ.. there is a country like Algeria that started using it but still has a 10%+ reported fatality rate.

 

Like I get the science behind it—I've see it can literally block the virus going into cells, it can tone down the cytokine storm where your own immune system actually overreacts and causes damage—but I just don't see in practice a 100% remission in people.  It's argued treatment needs to start earlier, oh, well okay, it also has a kind of nasty side effect profile so I don't think that's the brightest idea, and I don't think it's the most practical to begin with to use something as a preventative, if it even works, that would be a TON of demand on a nation-wide scale.  And I mean people here will even suggest adding tonic water to their stack, even though they admit chloroquine is more toxic than HCQ, no, they want to go further back in time with tonic water and good old quinine.

[xEva]

Although the study is observational rather than a rigorous experiment, it gives valuable information for a decision that hundreds of thousands of COVID-19 patients have already had to make without clear evidence about the drug’s risks and benefits, some journal editors and other doctors wrote in an editorial.

 

 

interesting that C-reactive protein was much higher in HCQ group (125 vs 76 with norm <10) and both high

and ferritin  ~800 in HCQ group vs ~500 in control - both shockingly high

 

I'd say that both groups were pretty far gone, with rampant inflammation. Too late for an antiviral, for sure.

 

This result means nothing considering that the docs who claim success with it insist that it should be started at onset of symptoms -- in order to avoid hospitalization in the first place.

 

[Gal220]

 Loss of control during hospitalization (based on my few past hospital experiences - twice having to fight off medical blunders) is my one big worry.

 

I will give AST enzymes a call an see what they are willing to say over the phone, you can read their marketing pitch at the bottom of this page.

 

They have a small 90 count bottle on amazon .  Makes sense to me to go ahead and start cleaning up the excess fibrin now, probably another reason seniors are getting the worst of it.

[Gal220]

Sinatra has been involved with the research himself along with all things related to heart health.  But you can find before and after pictures of blood where you can see the difference.  Suffice to say, if you already spend lots of time barefoot, its of little consequence.

 

There are earthing shoe options out there - Link1 , Link2 , Link3

 

Could always do the barefoot + blood pressure test to see if it is worth your time.  Ideally you want to get under 120/80 - Link1, Link2

Edited by Gal220, 08 May 2020 - 04:11 AM.

[gamesguru]

Cannabis shows promise blocking coronavirus infection: Alberta researcher

1 day ago  •  2 minute read

University of Lethbridge researcher Igor Kovalchuk is leading a study on medical cannabis as a potential therapy for COVID-19. Summited photo

Cannabis extracts are showing potential in making people more resistant to the novel coronavirus, says an Alberta researcher leading a study.

After sifting through 400 cannabis strains, researchers at the University of Lethbridge are concentrating on about a dozen that show promising results in ensuring less fertile ground for the potentially lethal virus to take root, said biological scientist Dr. Igor Kovalchuk.

 

“A number of them have reduced the number of these (virus) receptors by 73 per cent, the chance of it getting in is much lower,” said Kovalchuk.

“If they can reduce the number of receptors, there’s much less chance of getting infected.”

Employing cannabis sativa strains over the past three months, the researcher said the effective balance between cannabis components THC and CBD — the latter more typically associated with medical use — is still unclear in blocking the novel coronavirus.

“It will take a long time to find what the active ingredient is — there may be many,” said Kovalchuk, whose Pathway RX is owned partly by Olds-based licensed cannabis producer Sundial Growers and partnered with Alberta cannabis researcher Swysh.

But it’s generally the anti-inflammatory properties of high-CBD content that have shown most promise, he added.

“We focus more on the higher CBD because people can take higher doses and not be impaired,” said Kovalchuk.

The study under Health Canada licence using artificial human 3-D tissue models has been seeking ways to hinder the highly contagious novel coronavirus from finding a host in the lungs, intestines, and oral cavity.

 

If successful, the work could find practical medical use in the form of mouth wash, gargle, inhalants or gel caps, said Kovalchuk.

“It would be cheaper for people and have a lot less side-effects,” he said.

But the absence of clinical trials remains a barrier, and funding from an increasingly cash-strapped cannabis industry isn’t there to fuel that, said Kovalchuk.

[albedo]

Sorry if this editorial has been already reported:

Editorial: low population mortality from COVID‐19 in countries south of latitude 35 degrees North supports vitamin D as a factor determining severity

https://onlinelibrar....1111/apt.15777

[Gal220]

Loss of control during hospitalization (based on my few past hospital experiences - twice having to fight off medical blunders) is my one big worry.

 

AST enzymes has a dosing chart on this page ,  when I contacted them, support person picked up right away.

 

One of the best vitamin brands, Jarrow, has just a Natto offering as well.  It has a good explanation of how it works along with many reviewers.

[Gal220]

Sorry if this editorial has been already reported:

Editorial: low population mortality from COVID‐19 in countries south of latitude 35 degrees North supports vitamin D as a factor determining severity

https://onlinelibrar....1111/apt.15777

 

I saw Fox News report on it yesterday and today the story is off the front page and no mention of it on their Corona page either.  Im pretty far right politically, but it is disappointing that they and other major news outlets arent promoting Vitamin D/ other immunity boosters. 

 

Im not sure where your average person gets their medical advice online? WebMD didnt have any vitamin advice front and center.  Google is dropping the ball.  Pretty sad really.

[Gal220]

Here is one take on Google surpressing alternative medicine sites. Its not just major news networks like Fox, its hard to find even basic information(like take vit C, D, zinc) on any of these sites - Medical News Today , Healthline , Dr.Axe

 

Hopefully people find their way to Mercola , Andrew Weil, or the Linus Pauling Institute. 

[Corri]

This seems like a tenuous link, but worth considering. It seems many studies are finding that nutrient deficiencies lead to poor COVID-19 outcomes, to which I would say (and most life-extensionists would say) DUH!

 

Three trials about selenium supplementation and infection were found. A trial found that selenium improves immune function and poliovirus handling in adults with low selenium. Another trial found that selenium reduced HIV type 1 viral load. Another trial found that selenium supplementation of HIV infected pregnant women reduced child mortality after 6 weeks, but did not reduce maternal mortality.

There are few trials on selenium supplementation, but those trials show that selenium does help people with viral infections in some ways.

[lancebr]

Coronavirus could be sexually transmitted by recovering patients, new research shows.

 

https://www.marketwa...hows-2020-05-08

Edited by lancebr, 09 May 2020 - 08:43 AM.

[lancebr]

This startling discovery might protect men from coronavirus

 

https://bgr.com/2020...t-can-save-men/

[Hebbeh]

https://abcnews.go.c...tory?id=7058087

 

Triple combination therapy shows promise for COVID-19 patients with less severe illnesses The trio of drugs include ribavirin, lopinavir-ritonavir and Interferon beta 1b.

 

As scientists scramble to find COVID-19 treatments among existing approved drugs, researchers in Hong Kong may have found a winning combination. Early data shows that a triple antiviral therapy may be safe and effective in treating patients with mild to moderate cases of COVID-19, according to a study published Friday in Lancet.

All three drugs used in the study are already approved to treat other illnesses. Interferon beta 1b is a drug commonly used to treat multiple sclerosis, lopinavir-ritonavir is an anti-retroviral medication used to treat HIV and ribavirin is commonly used to treat hepatitis C.

 

Researchers from six different hospitals in Hong Kong assigned over 120 patients to one of two treatment groups. They gave one group of patients suffering mild to moderate COVID-19 symptoms a cocktail of all three drugs, and gave the other group only lopinavir-ritonavir.

 

Doctors tested the amount of virus in samples taken from the patient's nose, saliva, back of the throat and stool on a machine that can detect the presence of viral genetic material.

 

When researchers compared the two groups, they found that the typical patient given the three drug-combo tested negative for the virus five days earlier than those who received just a single drug. In addition, the triple therapy treatment group had shorter hospital stays and reported that their symptoms disappeared much faster than the control group.

 

The study offers a promising sign that the drug cocktail helped their bodies beat back the virus faster.

 

Another welcome finding was the lack of significant negative side effects. The main negative side effects of the medications were nausea and diarrhea, but there was no difference between the two groups, and none of the patients in the study died. 

 

 

[joelcairo]

Sorry if this editorial has been already reported:

Editorial: low population mortality from COVID‐19 in countries south of latitude 35 degrees North supports vitamin D as a factor determining severity

https://onlinelibrar....1111/apt.15777

 

I'm looking at a map of vitamin D levels and while I can't be certain where the original data comes from (probably diverse sources), it appears to tell a different story.

 

For example among the highest rates of vitamin D deficiency (<30 nmol/l) are Germany (67%), India (62%), Turkey (33%) and Australia (22-45%). These countries have not been hit particularly hard.

 

OTOH countries that have notably been hard hit have a fairly low rate of vitamin D deficiency - The USA (5%), Italy (21%). England (10%) and China (4%). Spain and Belgium also come to mind, but their vitamin D numbers are not reported here.

 

This is obviously not definitive. My point is partly that supplementation, seasonality, skin color, and patterns of outdoor skin exposure have as much impact on vitamin D status as latitude.

Edited by joelcairo, 09 May 2020 - 04:45 PM.

[albedo]

Sorry if this editorial has been already reported:

Editorial: low population mortality from COVID‐19 in countries south of latitude 35 degrees North supports vitamin D as a factor determining severity

https://onlinelibrar....1111/apt.15777

 

Along the same lines but do not think it is the same study. Again, I am sorry if this has been already reported!

 

Ilie, P.C., Stefanescu, S. & Smith, L. The role of vitamin D in the prevention of coronavirus disease 2019 infection and mortality. Aging Clin Exp Res (2020). https://doi.org/10.1...520-020-01570-8
 

"...We have identified a potential crude association between the mean vitamin D levels in various European countries with COVID-19 cases/1M and COVID-19 mortality..."

 

"...In conclusion, we found significant crude relationships between vitamin D levels and the number COVID-19 cases and especially the mortality caused by this infection. The most vulnerable group of population for COVID-19, the aging population, is also the one that has the most deficit Vitamin D levels..."

 

"...We acknowledge that this cross-sectional analysis has limitations. The number of cases/country is affected by the number of tests performed and also by the different measures taken by each country to prevent the spread of infection, and the difference in the number of infected patients in the population will also mean different levels of exposure for the population..."

 

 C19 VitD.PNG   292.57KB   0 downloads

[bladedmind]

Here’s a great resource, an ongoing, no-drama tracker of the progress of various Covid19 trials.  https://www.prescrib.../covid19updates

 

Remdesivir results to date (skipping abandoned trials, no control arm, case study)

Gilead announced interim results from 397 patients enrolled in a 6,000 patient, Phase III, SIMPLE trial (NCT04292899). There was no difference in efficacy, measured on a seven-point scale that runs from death to not hospitalized, between a 5-day course of remdesivir and a 10-day course in hospitalized patients with severe COVID-19. The data suggested that earlier treatment was more efficacious than later treatment.

 

NIAID announced preliminary data from a 29-day, 1,063 patient, Phase III, Adaptive COVID-19 Treatment Trial (ACTT) trial (NCT04280705), where patients treated with remdesivir for up to ten days had a median time of recovery (hospital discharge or returning to normal activity level) of 11 days compared to 15 days with placebo in patients with severe COVID-19. There was a non-significant difference in the mortality rate of 8% with remdesivir compared to 11.6% with placebo. The ACTT trial was closed to enrollment on April 19. 

 

In a 28-day, 237 patient, Phase III, Chinese trial, treatment with remdesivir for ten days was not associated with a clinical benefit compared to placebo (non-significant 20 days vs 23 days) in hospitalized patients with severe COVID-19 infection (NCT04257656). Due to a decrease in patients with COVID-19 infections in China, enrollment was suspended after 237 patients entered the study instead of the target of 450 patients, which reduced the statistical power from 80% to 58%. The researchers noted they “could not exclude clinically meaningful differences and saw numerical reductions in some clinical parameters". Confounders in this study included 54% of the patients in the remdesivir group receiving the drug more than 10-days after developing symptoms compared to 40% of placebo patients. Almost 30% of remdesivir patients received interferon and/or lopinavir–ritonavir. While use of lopinavir–ritonavir was similar in both groups, 38% of patients received interferon. The placebo group was 65% male compared to 56% in the remdesivir group. These differences could have been due to the final population not reaching the target total.

 

Preliminary results from the Chinese Phase III COVID-19 trials in patients with severe infections (NCT04257656) were posted on the WHO web site and then taken down. STAT reported on the data and posted a screen shot of the data before it was taken down. The single paragraph reported no benefit with remdesivir. These reports are too preliminary, since at this point, we do not know what other treatments were given to the patients. It should also be noted that patients could receive the drug up to 12 days after developing symptoms, which may be beyond the window for effective use of the drug. At this time, it would be better to wait until the results are published in a reviewed article.

 

 

My summary to date:  nil results.  

 

Remdesivir side effects

https://www.biospace...ooks-promising/

about 25% of patients receiving it have severe side effects, including multiple-organ dysfunction syndrome, septic shock, acute kidney injury and low blood pressure. Another 23% demonstrated evidence of liver damage on lab tests.

 

 

 

FDA issues emergency use authorization for Remdisivir, May 1

https://www.fda.gov/...137564/download

 

Gilead lobbying expenditures and pricing practices.

https://www.npr.org/...eatment-climbed

 

https://www.prescrib.../covid19updates

 

ICER released a preliminary pricing review for remdesivir on 5/1/2020. ICER developed two pricing estimates. One is a cost recovery pricing estimate, based on a review of the cost of producing the final finished product. ICER estimated a cost recovery price of $1 per dose or $10 for a 10-day course and $5 for a 5-day course. Using a threshold price at $50,000 per incremental quality-adjusted life year (and equal value of a life-year gained) and the benefits seen in the Adaptive COVID-19 Treatment Trial (ACTT), ICER estimated a cost-effective price of $4,460 for a 10-day course of remdesivir assuming a mortality benefit and $390 with no mortality benefit.

 

 

 

 

 

[joelcairo]

It's hard to believe Gilead would be happy selling a 10-day course of their drug for just $390.

[Gal220]

Mercola has an article up on blood clots now.

 

He recommends Lumbrokinase over serrapeptase and natto.  First Ive ever heard of it.

 

"Some researchers have suggested lumbrokinase could be used “as secondary prevention after acute thrombosis,” such as heart attacks and stroke.36 A 2008 study37 found its antiplatelet activity protected against cerebral ischemia.

It is important to note that lumbrokinase is about 300 times stronger than serrapeptase, and nearly 30 times stronger than nattokinase.38,39,40 It is my strong personal preference and recommendation if you are using a fibrinolytic enzyme.

Nattokinase, produced by the bacteria Bacillus subtilis during the fermentation of soybeans to produce natto,41 is a strong thrombolytic,42 comparable to aspirin43,44 without the serious side effects."

[lancebr]

vitamin D Concentrations Are Lower in Patients with Positive PCR for SARS-CoV-2

 

https://www.mdpi.com...3/12/5/1359/htm

 

"Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) causes coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19), with a

clinical outcome ranging from mild to severe, including death. To date, it is unclear why some patients develop severe

symptoms. Many authors have suggested the involvement of vitamin D in reducing the risk of infections; thus, we

retrospectively investigated the 25-hydroxyvitamin D (25(OH)D) concentrations in plasma obtained from a cohort of

patients from Switzerland. In this cohort, significantly lower 25(OH)D levels (p = 0.004) were found in PCR-positive for

SARS-CoV-2 (median value 11.1 ng/mL) patients compared with negative patients (24.6 ng/mL); this was also confirmed

by stratifying patients according to age >70 years. On the basis of this preliminary observation, vitamin D supplementation

might be a useful measure to reduce the risk of infection. Randomized controlled trials and large population studies should

be conducted to evaluate these recommendations and to confirm our preliminary observation"

 

"As suggested by Grant et al., it is recommended that people at risk of COVID-19 consider taking 10,000 IU/day of vitamin D3

for a few weeks to rapidly increase their 25(OH)D concentrations, followed by 5000 IU/day to reduce the risk of infection.

The goal should be to raise 25(OH)D concentrations above 40–60 ng/mL (100–150 nmol/L) [3], or at least 30 ng/mL,

considering our preliminary data. It is probable that vitamin D3 supplementation would be useful in the treatment of COVID-19

infection, in preventing a more severe symptomatology and/or in reducing the presence of the virus in the upper respiratory

tract and making the patients less infectious (justifying negative PCR in people with higher 25(OH)D)."

 

Edited by lancebr, 10 May 2020 - 03:57 AM.

[Gal220]

Thailandmedical.news quoted one researcher, Dr.Wen, with this glucose theory in relation to CoVid

 

"However what medical researchers do know is that people with type 2 diabetes are more susceptible to severe flu infections. But that risk is not because they have higher glucose levels in their blood. The real reason, Dr Wen says, is that they cannot use glucose effectively and thus cannot initiate a proper antiviral response."

 

So not just a matter of getting your blood sugar down necessarily(still a good idea), but improving your ability to burn sugar.  My understanding is there are 2 causes to type 2 diabetes, insulin resistance from your cells or the pancreas not making enough insulin.

 

One option would be to build a vitamin regimen around Jarrow's glucose optimizer since there are overlapping nutrients with a normal vitamin.

 

Andrew Weil gives his recommendation here

 

 

[smithx]

What I find odd about this is that lopinavir-ritonavir previously was not found to be effective at all I thought. Was there any study that showed it really worked?

 

The other thing that's odd is that they say there were no serious side effects with the 3 drug combo but lopinavir-ritonavir all alone has a rather nasty side effects profile.

 

 

https://abcnews.go.c...tory?id=7058087

 

Triple combination therapy shows promise for COVID-19 patients with less severe illnesses The trio of drugs include ribavirin, lopinavir-ritonavir and Interferon beta 1b.

 

...

 

When researchers compared the two groups, they found that the typical patient given the three drug-combo tested negative for the virus five days earlier than those who received just a single drug. In addition, the triple therapy treatment group had shorter hospital stays and reported that their symptoms disappeared much faster than the control group.

 

The study offers a promising sign that the drug cocktail helped their bodies beat back the virus faster.

 

Another welcome finding was the lack of significant negative side effects. The main negative side effects of the medications were nausea and diarrhea, but there was no difference between the two groups, and none of the patients in the study died. 

 

[Mind]

From what I have seen so far, the combination treatment of Hydroxychloroquine + antibiotic + essential nutrient supplementation seems to offer the best hope right now (for the least cost).

 

Other than that, I am still more hopeful about the stem cell treatments (referencing this line of thinking). Here is a new stem cell treatment trial starting up in the U.S. https://www.einnews....vid-19-patients

 

Stem cell treatments are probably the closest thing to a "rejuvenation therapy", to help rescue the obese, frail, and elderly, from COVID-19, IMO.

[Gal220]

Chris Masterjohn discusses the positive clinical results.  of Zinc or possibly Hydroxy + Zinc  in a new article.  He thinks it is just the zinc, but acknowledges all the information is from HCQ+zinc

 

"zinc was associated with a 49% lower risk of either being transferred to hospice or dying, a 44% decreased chance of requiring invasive ventilation, and a 56% increased likelihood of being discharged from the hospital and released to home care."

 

 

He also has a article up on clotting/strokes and is looking into Natto as possible solution.  As noted earlier, Jarrow has Natto product I would start taking now if I was a senior.

[Gal220]

So the 2nd tip on Mercola(scroll to the bottom) for CoVid is addressing sugar/hypertension.  A huge subject itself, but there area already many formulas on Amazon.

 

As mentioned earlier, Jarrow has a product, Glucose Optimizer, that you could build a vitamin regimen around(it already has B vitamins).

 

One option -

-Thornes Vitamin D3+K2 drops, great brand and you get whatever dosage you want

-jigsaw multi mineral - 15 mg zinc, 2mg copper, 400 mcg selenium - 3 months for $15 currently

-Country life calcium/magnesium/potassium 500/500 mg + potassium and phosporus .  Masterjohn makes specific mention of phosphorus when balancing calcium, see also this article. 2 pills here so if you think you have a really good diet, probably need just 1.

-vit E - Life extension , Thorne, Jarrow all have good products.  If you used Life extensions Health Booster (K+E), you could just a buy a cheap D3 drop/pill also.

-omegas/vit A - cod oil , Virgin - Wiley - Rosita all have a minimally processed version.(if you eat fish and liver, not really necessary).

-probiotics - fermented foods or supplement.  Seniors might consider a digestive enzyme also.

 

You could go the other route, stick to your normal vitamin regimen, and just buy the glucose products Jarrow uses.

Another product, Glucator, uses mostly the same ingredients as Jarrow without the B vitamins.  Really pricey in my opinion, but you could keep your current vit regimen.

Edited by Gal220, 11 May 2020 - 04:11 AM.

[lancebr]

Chris Masterjohn discusses the positive clinical results.  of Zinc or possibly Hydroxy + Zinc  in a new article.  He thinks it is just the zinc, but acknowledges all the information is from HCQ+zinc

 

"zinc was associated with a 49% lower risk of either being transferred to hospice or dying, a 44% decreased chance of requiring invasive ventilation, and a 56% increased likelihood of being discharged from the hospital and released to home care."

 

 

He also has a article up on clotting/strokes and is looking into Natto as possible solution.  As noted earlier, Jarrow has Natto product I would start taking now if I was a senior.

 

His reasoning about the zinc still doesn't seem very educated,  He still believes that hydroxychloroquine does not act as

a zinc ionophore and that zinc is doing it all by itself even though the study did not test zinc by itself.

 

The study he is referencing "compared patients who used hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin with zinc....to those

who used hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin without zinc,"

 

The group who used the zinc with the other two did better...so he seems to assume that it was the zinc that did it....but

that is not a very educated assumption to make.  Since many believe the zinc works because of hydroxychloroquine's

zinc ionophore properties then that would better explain the results of the study.

 

Even the author of the study alludes to the fact of the zinc ionophore properties being important with the use of zinc:

 

"Our findings suggest a potential therapeutic synergistic mechanism of zinc sulfate with hydroxychloroquine, if used

early on in presentation with COVID-19. However, our findings do not suggest a prophylactic benefit of zinc sulfate

in the absence of a zinc ionophore"

 

---------------------------

 

And his Vitamin D theory doesn't look to be holding up with new study coming out:

 

 

vitamin D Concentrations Are Lower in Patients with Positive PCR for SARS-CoV-2

 

https://www.mdpi.com...3/12/5/1359/htm

 

"Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) causes coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19), with a

clinical outcome ranging from mild to severe, including death. To date, it is unclear why some patients develop severe

symptoms. Many authors have suggested the involvement of vitamin D in reducing the risk of infections; thus, we

retrospectively investigated the 25-hydroxyvitamin D (25(OH)D) concentrations in plasma obtained from a cohort of

patients from Switzerland. In this cohort, significantly lower 25(OH)D levels (p = 0.004) were found in PCR-positive for

SARS-CoV-2 (median value 11.1 ng/mL) patients compared with negative patients (24.6 ng/mL); this was also confirmed

by stratifying patients according to age >70 years. On the basis of this preliminary observation, vitamin D supplementation

might be a useful measure to reduce the risk of infection. Randomized controlled trials and large population studies should

be conducted to evaluate these recommendations and to confirm our preliminary observation"

 

"As suggested by Grant et al., it is recommended that people at risk of COVID-19 consider taking 10,000 IU/day of vitamin D3

for a few weeks to rapidly increase their 25(OH)D concentrations, followed by 5000 IU/day to reduce the risk of infection.

The goal should be to raise 25(OH)D concentrations above 40–60 ng/mL (100–150 nmol/L) [3], or at least 30 ng/mL,

considering our preliminary data. It is probable that vitamin D3 supplementation would be useful in the treatment of COVID-19

infection, in preventing a more severe symptomatology and/or in reducing the presence of the virus in the upper respiratory

tract and making the patients less infectious (justifying negative PCR in people with higher 25(OH)D)."

Edited by lancebr, 11 May 2020 - 04:04 AM.

[Gal220]

His reasoning about the zinc still doesn't seem very educated,  He still believes that hydroxychloroquine does not act as

a zinc ionophore and that zinc is doing it all by itself even though the study did not test zinc by itself.

 

---------------------------

 

And his Vitamin D theory doesn't look to be holding up with new study coming out:

 

 

Here is the full spiel on HCQ+zinc . Luckily HCQ is fairly cheap so why not use it till certain there is no synergy.

 

The more I have thought about his Vit D argument, the less I like it.  But he is also against going deficient(1000-1700IU ~ 30ng/mL) , which is probably all that matters. Ill stick with 2000IU from 2 day multi. 

Edited by Gal220, 11 May 2020 - 04:21 AM.

[Gal220]

Chris Masterjohn discusses the positive clinical results.  of Zinc or possibly Hydroxy + Zinc  in a new article.  He thinks it is just the zinc, but acknowledges all the information is from HCQ+zinc

 

"zinc was associated with a 49% lower risk of either being transferred to hospice or dying, a 44% decreased chance of requiring invasive ventilation, and a 56% increased likelihood of being discharged from the hospital and released to home care."

 

 

He also has a article up on clotting/strokes and is looking into Natto as possible solution.  As noted earlier, Jarrow has Natto product I would start taking now if I was a senior.

 

Here is the source paper for the HCQ + Zinc article

 

Several new articles on thailand.news and mercola.com , interesting how they dont overlap much either.

[smithx]

vitamin D Concentrations Are Lower in Patients with Positive PCR for SARS-CoV-2

 

https://www.mdpi.com...3/12/5/1359/htm

 

I agree with taking vitamin D and I recommend it to everyone. But there is a potential issue with that study:

 

• They analyzed blood samples taken from patients diagnosed with covid-19, but the samples were taken an average of 3 days after the nasal swab.
• The patients' vitamin D level before being infected was not known

Nothing in the study precludes the alternative interpretation that covid-19 disease is itself responsible for depleting vitamin D levels in the blood. We don't know if the observed low levels are cause or effect. Lower vitamin D levels in people with worse outcomes could be due to more vitamin D depletion in a more serious case of the disease than in a less serious case.

 

What was observed was lower vitamin D levels in more serious cases of covid-19. There still doesn't seem to be enough information to know if that's cause or effect.

 

On the other hand, supplementing to 60 or 70 ng/ml seems to be good for many reasons, so it's best to do that anyway and hope that it is protective against covid-19.

[DanCG]

 

 

What was observed was lower vitamin D levels in more serious cases of covid-19. There still doesn't seem to be enough information to know if that's cause or effect.

 

On the other hand, supplementing to 60 or 70 ng/ml seems to be good for many reasons, so it's best to do that anyway and hope that it is protective against covid-19.

All roads lead to vitamin D supplementation. If D status at the time of infection is decisive, then those who have been supplementing all along are protected. If the virus causes vitamin D depletion, at some point the low D levels will cause problems on top of everything else the virus is doing -> time to replenish.

[Gal220]

All roads lead to vitamin D supplementation. If D status at the time of infection is decisive, then those who have been supplementing all along are protected. If the virus causes vitamin D depletion, at some point the low D levels will cause problems on top of everything else the virus is doing -> time to replenish.

 

I was impressed with the Linus Pauling institute write up on immuntiy, they start out with this

 

" It is well established that malnutrition (protein-energy malnutrition and obesity) and deficiencies in one or more micronutrients (vitamins and nutritionally essential minerals) diminish immune function. "

 

Im not sure what the primary culprit is, if I had to guess though, it would be obesity/insulin resistance compounded by a lack of C,D, and zinc.  Mercola is going with insulin resistance.

 

At least the vitamin deficiencies can mostly be addressed with a good multivitamin.  Insulin resistance isnt nearly as easy and their many diets(atkins,keto) work out plans available to try and address it.  I posted one possible vitamin regimen a few posts up for it.

Edited by Gal220, 11 May 2020 - 11:35 PM.