3083 replies to this topic

[smithx]

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC7270578/

 

 

Can Bioactive Lipids Inactivate Coronavirus (COVID-19)?
Undurti N. Das∗

Abstract
SARS-CoV-2, SARS and MERS are all enveloped viruses that can cause acute respiratory syndrome. Arachidonic acid (AA) and other unsaturated fatty acids (especially eicosapentaenoic acd, EPA and docosahexaenoic acid DHA) are known to inactivate enveloped viruses and inhibit proliferation of various microbial organisms. The pro-inflammatory metabolites of AA and EPA such as prostaglandins, leukotrienes and thromboxanes induce inflammation whereas lipoxins, resolvins, protectins and maresins derived from AA, EPA and DHA not only suppress inflammation but also enhance would healing and augment phagocytosis of macrophages and other immunocytes and decrease microbial load. In view of these actions, it is suggested that AA and other unsaturated fatty acids and their metabolites may serve as endogenous anti-viral compounds and their deficiency may render humans susceptible to SARS-CoV-2, SARS and MERS and other similar viruses’ infections. Hence, oral or intravenous administration of AA and other unsaturated fatty acids may aid in enhancing resistance and recovery from SARS-CoV-2, SARS and MERS infections.

 

 

[Dorian Grey]

Thanks for this smithx.  PPC (polyunsaturated lecithin / polyenylphosphatidylcholine)  is one of my favorite supps, but I was wondering if it might be helpful, or perhaps help the virus as coronavirus has a lipid coat.  

 

https://www.nutrasal...tegory-s/73.htm

 

PPC is sold as a "membrane therapeutic", which spooked me a bit as coronavirus lipid membrane.  Looks like PPC not only should be safe, but may actually be helpful.  

 

Again, thanks for your input!  

[lancebr]

So the media is now reporting that Remdesivir can reduce "the risk of death for severely sick coronavirus

patients by 62% compared with standard care alone".

 

https://www.cnbc.com...k-of-death.html

 

They also said that the new data found the most benefit from Remdesivir for severely ill patients was ones

"under age 65, people who didn't require as much oxygen and those who hadn't received biologic treatments

used to tackle an overzealous immune response called a cytokine storm. Black patients also seemed to do

better than other groups."

[bladedmind]

Can Bioactive Lipids Inactivate Coronavirus (COVID-19)?

Undurti N. Das∗

 

 

I've readily confessed that I lack training in biochemistry.  Would SPM (Specialized Pro-Resolving Mediators) products (offered AFAIK by Metagenics or Life Extension) do this job more reliably than say oral EPA and DHA?   

 

[Gal220]

 

 

I've readily confessed that I lack training in biochemistry.  Would SPM (Specialized Pro-Resolving Mediators) products (offered AFAIK by Metagenics or Life Extension) do this job more reliably than say oral EPA and DHA?   

 

 

Im not up on all the media reports, but I havent read anything where places like japan/alaska are reporting fewer cases because of their fish diet.  Or are the people getting sick omega deficient?

If the study is true, I guess you would have to take more than the populations with the highest omega intake.

 

The vitamin D people at grassrootshealth.net have latched on to the omega index as major indicator for a variety of health issues, they have a world map showing general omega index per region - link 

Japanese diet avergages 1.3 grams per day compared to American diet of .2 grams - link

You can almost get 1.3 grams from a single teaspoon of Nordic Naturals  , so maybe 2 or 3 teaspoons would be necessary, 1 with each meal.

 

At one point Life extension was recommending 4 grams a day, dont see a recommended dosage on this page - interesting they finding omega 7 improves metabolic/insulin sensitivity.

A few years back there was quite the hub bub about high omegas possibly being linked to prostrate cancer, I dont think there is anything to it, but fyi -  link1

 

Chris Kesser is championing the moderate fish oil intake and also believes high intake is dangerous - link

 

 

If you do choose to take a large dose, I would make sure you're getting your vitamin E as omegas will lower it and E keeps the omegas from oxidizing.

Edited by Gal220, 11 July 2020 - 09:20 PM.

[Gal220]

Thanks, Gal220, for the remarks on Natto.    

 

https://youtu.be/kK-DNyKnb5c

Seheult is not saying, oh, here is another antiplatelet therapy among others.  He’s saying that NAC could be exactly appropriate to sunder the causal chain leading from the virus to thrombosis.  Implying that it could be great for prophylaxis and treatment. 

 

 

There are some concerns with NAC (link1 , 2 ) , but many have taken it here it seems without issue..  And Im sure Seheult also did his homework on it.

 

I just wouldnt completely rely on it for clots when something like Natto is available.   If I had symptoms, I would certainly start NAC along with the glutathione protocol mentioned by Masterjohn

[Gal220]

Wish there was more to this story, someone on city-data posted a link about athletes getting covid, suppose they are zinc deficient? 

 

I would have thought all they would get is a mild fever, maybe over training to exhaustion?

 

NYTimes study

[albedo]

NUTRITIONAL SUPPLEMENTS FOR COVID-19 PROPHYLAXIS AND SYMPTOM DE-ESCALATION

https://www.linkedin...m-chris-newton/

 consensus covid.PNG   260.21KB   2 downloads

 

Optimal Nutritional Status for a Well-Functioning Immune System Is an Important Factor to Protect against Viral Infections

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC7230749/

 consensus covid - 2.PNG   406.72KB   3 downloads

[Gal220]

NUTRITIONAL SUPPLEMENTS FOR COVID-19 PROPHYLAXIS AND SYMPTOM DE-ESCALATION

https://www.linkedin...m-chris-newton/

consensus covid.PNG

 

 

Never heard of butyrate, thats a new one I dont think we have discussed.

 

"Gut dysbiosis and increased gut permeability are intimately linked. Butyrate acts to maintain the gut barrier, at least in part via an increase in the melatonergic pathway in intestinal epithelial cells.49 Butyrate is also an immune‐suppressant via its capacity to disinhibit PDC and thereby increase mitochondrial OXPHOS, TCA cycle, and acetyl‐CoA for the melatonergic pathway"

 

"It is also noteworthy that increased gut dysbiosis/permeability is frequently associated with the preexisting health conditions that increase the risk of fatality from viral infections. Preexisting health conditions that increase fatality risk from influenza and covid‐19 include cardiovascular and lung disorders, diabetes, and cancer"

 

 

In general, good overview of supplements.  No mention of hesperidin or ashwagandha, I guess they believe quercetin(still waiting on the Canadian trial) is still king.  I think this is where the medical community has really failed, we should have way more info on these things by now. 

 

Nothing on natto or NAD+ either, but not surprising there though.

 

I like them recommending COD oil over fish oil for the natural vitamin A. I would never go with pills though(see the comments section), get the liquid from virgin, rosita or wiley so you know its not rancid when you taste it.   I would take at least 500mg of calcium with this regimen, but at least they mentioned most of the vit D cofactors in this concoction.

 

I dont really like the upper limit on zinc at 50mg, but I have seen it several places now. 

[mwestbro]

It strikes me that the simple nutritional recommendations posted by Albedo above can shed some light on the disproportionate impact Covid is having on poorer communities.  We know these communities are suffering from more food insecurity as a result of Covid, as discussed here.  A simple multivitamin would go a long way towards mitigating the resultant malnutrition.  If you want to do a cheap good deed, donate a bottle of multivitamins to your local food bank.  And take one yourself if you aren't already.  Its easy to forget the basics.

[gamesguru]

A simple multivitamin would go a long way towards mitigating the resultant malnutrition.

 

Its easy to forget the basics.

 

A multivitamin doesn't really provide the fiber, flavonoids or other unique benefits of whole foods.  It can be used to fill in some gaps here and there, but even a "pure" or "plant-based" one isn't something i see a need for on a daily basis. I would actually caution against habitual, faithful use of a daily multivitamin or any sort of naive supplementation, because of the sense of security coming from continued use.

 

Since the time of this analysis, I've pretty much stopped analyzing my foods.  I've trained my eye and now I instinctively know when I'm missing something, and by how much.  Generally I miss a few vitamins each day, but they rotate, and are most commonly A, D, E, Se, Zn, Mg, Ca, and K.  I have a 125mcg vitamin D supplement I take a few times weekly, as well as calcium citrate and magnesium glycinate/threonate powders.

 

 

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[albedo]

I quite stand with Mwestbro's last comment above. I think it is a matter of fundamentally reinforcing the host with simple supplementation. Of course, you might have specific needs for some nutrients and some might be specific against severe Covid-19 illness. Also at Gal220, sure there are more nutrients probably missing in the list (remember this is a tentative consensus document between experts so it is normal you focus there where consensus is achievable, which reinforces what is already in the list). Also there are nutrients having a pleiotropy impact in general on health: butyrate is a SCFA typical in that. I recollect melatonin too in high dosages. I can track references for both later if this is of interest.

[gamesguru]

It should be noted in the prophylaxis regimen that Quercetin acts also as a mast cell stabilizer, and this is thought to explain the majority of its anti-allergy and immune modulating effect.

 

Several of the doses are too high.  That much Zinc or Magnesium in a bio-available form would make me sick.

Also, rationale or specification is lacking for some inclusions.  Vitamin E comes in many forms, synthetic, tocotrienols.  Same for Vitamin A.  As for choline and the B vitamins, there is not a clear consensus on their prophylactic utility, or even consensus that many Americans are deficient or even less than ideal

[Gal220]

I quite stand with Mwestbro's last comment above. I think it is a matter of fundamentally reinforcing the host with simple supplementation. Of course, you might have specific needs for some nutrients and some might be specific against severe Covid-19 illness. Also at Gal220, sure there are more nutrients probably missing in the list (remember this is a tentative consensus document between experts so it is normal you focus there where consensus is achievable, which reinforces what is already in the list). Also there are nutrients having a pleiotropy impact in general on health: butyrate is a SCFA typical in that. I recollect melatonin too in high dosages. I can track references for both later if this is of interest.

 

I didnt really mean to come off as too critical, its about the same as other well informed wellness sites like the American Nutritional Assoc.  I just think at this point we should have more information than we do.

 

Mercola probably still has the best page up for easy consumption with their top tips at the bottom of this page, nice to see them stressing diabetes and hypertension as number 2 goal.

 

Not sure the masses are going to see any of the pages with our internet overlord(google) toting the CDC line by censoring the results - just wash your hands.  DuckDuckGo.com for the win...

[Daniel Cooper]

There are some concerns with NAC (link1 , 2 ) , but many have taken it here it seems without issue..  And Im sure Seheult also did his homework on it.

 

I just wouldnt completely rely on it for clots when something like Natto is available.   If I had symptoms, I would certainly start NAC along with the glutathione protocol mentioned by Masterjohn

 

Have we really got a handle on how much glutathione makes it through the gut?  I hear wildly varying claims from "none" to "a lot".  This seems to be controversial and hasn't been resolved in my mind.

 

I do seem to recall that the reduced form may have a better chance of making it through digestion.

[Gal220]

I think Mercola goes a little overboard with his Hydroxy conspiracy theory, but nonetheless, it does seem cheap and effective.

 

 

"In one international poll3 of 6,227 doctors in 30 countries, 37% rated the antimalaria drug hydroxychloroquine as “the most effective therapy” for COVID-19. The poll was done by Sermo, the world’s largest health care data collection company and social platform for physicians"

 

In Spain, where the drug was used by 72% of doctors, it was rated “the most effective therapy” by 75% of them

 

French doctor Raoult - "upon diagnosis, led to recovery and “virological cure” — nondetection of SARS-CoV-27 in nasal swabs — in 91.7% of patients"

 

Dr Zalenko of NY - "had a near-100% success rate using hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin and zinc sulfate for five days. “I’ve seen remarkable results; it really prevents progression of disease, and patients get better"

 

Zalenko  - "He points out hydroxychloroquine has been used for decades and is safe even for pregnant and nursing women, so he felt very comfortable prescribing it off-label"

 

Zalenko - "hydroxychloroquine deniers “are guilty of mass murder.”

 

 

The conspiracy - "Indeed, there are several reasons for why certain individuals and companies might not want an inexpensive generic drug to work against this pandemic illness. (A 14-day supply costs just $2 to manufacture12 and can retail for as little as $20.13)"

 

"What this means is that thousands of patients are having their treatment selected via randomization by computer rather than by their own doctors' choice of treatment. The U.K., by the way, has one of the highest COVID-19 death rates in Europe already.47 By removing physician and patient choice of treatment, the death toll might end up being far worse than it needs to be."

 

Sick world we live in.

 

Mercola is also a believer in the Quercetin alternative of HCQ, Im not so sure, but it makes the most sense and nearly every wellness site on the internet recommends it.

 

 

[Gal220]

Have we really got a handle on how much glutathione makes it through the gut?  I hear wildly varying claims from "none" to "a lot".  This seems to be controversial and hasn't been resolved in my mind.

 

I do seem to recall that the reduced form may have a better chance of making it through digestion.

 

Masterjohn goes with Jarrow.  He says there isnt many studies, but there is one he found to his liking - link

 

"A small randomized crossover study with 20 people lasting three weeks compared NAC with oral and sublingual glutathione"

 

"Sublingual glutathione and NAC led to a 26-27% higher ratio of reduced to oxidized glutathione, and this was statistically significant, meaning there is only a small likelihood that the difference would be observed if it resulted from random chance alone."

[Daniel Cooper]

Masterjohn goes with Jarrow.  He says there isnt many studies, but there is one he found to his liking - link

 

"A small randomized crossover study with 20 people lasting three weeks compared NAC with oral and sublingual glutathione"

 

"Sublingual glutathione and NAC led to a 26-27% higher ratio of reduced to oxidized glutathione, and this was statistically significant, meaning there is only a small likelihood that the difference would be observed if it resulted from random chance alone."

 

I suppose that sublingual would avoid it being broken down by γ-glutamyl transpeptidase.  If it is actually absorbed instead of simply trickling down your throat.

 

Looking around it can be found in injectable form.

[Gal220]

I suppose that sublingual would avoid it being broken down by γ-glutamyl transpeptidase.  If it is actually absorbed instead of simply trickling down your throat.

 

Looking around it can be found in injectable form.

 

LivOn labs has a lipsomal version, but sold out, pricey too.

Edited by Gal220, 15 July 2020 - 03:06 PM.

[Daniel Cooper]

Yeah, I couldn't really find many sources for sublingual glutathione but several for liposomal.  My suspicion is that a liposomal encapsulation done right would be superior to sublingual.  With sublingual you always have the issue of how much makes it through the sublingual or buccal mucosa and how much ends up simply running down your throat. Liposomal should be pretty foolproof.  

 

I see that Amazon has several sources for liposomal glutathione, Core Med Sciences being one and Pure Encapsulations being another. I know nothing about Core Med but have a more or less favorable inclination towards Pure Encapsulation, only because I've used a couple of products from them in the past.  They are naturally the more expensive option.

 

 

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 15 July 2020 - 03:15 PM.

[bladedmind]

I prefer NAC, and if needed for an extra push liposomal glutathione.  I take a two-day break from NAC every week (my MD told me to do that, I can't provide rationale).

 

Also, you can nebulize glutathione.   I used to do that.  Picked it up from Dr. Myhill's page, but the info  no longer there.  It must be buffered, so people use buffered Thera Natural Glutathione Plus.  Here's one account I grabbed from websearch.  https://dreddymd.com...e-nebulization/

 

It can be OK for asthmatics but look out if you are sulfite sensitive can be bad.  

Edited by bladedmind, 15 July 2020 - 04:59 PM.

[Daniel Cooper]

I've always wondered if endotoxins would be an issue with nebulizing glutathione.  They are irrelevant when consumed orally, so glutathione for oral consumption isn't purified/tested to eliminate them.  They can definitely be a problem if you are injecting glutathione containing endotoxins.  The FDA shut down a manufacturer of injectable glutathione just last year for exceeding the limits which caused some adverse reactions.  I don't know if inhaling nebulized glutathione containing endotoxins would be an issue, but my guess would be it very well might.

 

Not to mention that oral capsules are almost certain to contain fillers/excipients which I'm pretty sure I don't want to inhale.  You can buy bulk glutathione which will eliminate that issue, but you're back to the concern over endotoxins.

 

Maybe you could nebulize injectable glutathione, but you'd need to have a look at the preservatives used.

[bladedmind]

Not advocating, not shilling, just informing.

 

Reduced L-Glutathione Plus™ is specifically engineered for enhanced absorption and is comfortably ideal for lung, nasal, and other soft tissues. There are No fillers, excipients, preservatives, or additives in this product.

 

 

[bladedmind]

About age 40 i became very run down and a clever MD figured out that I wasn't metabolizing magnesium well.  I started dosing 500 mg a day and over three months my tremors and confusion went away.  A later MD suggested that I nebulize magnesium, so I experimented with that.   But oral magnesium works well enough.

https://www.drmyhill...um_by_nebuliser

 

In 2011, about age 60 I came down with an extreme chemicals allergy.  Nothing worked.  I tried IV Myers cocktail drips, and glutathione.  Over time the glutathione IVs seemed to help (or I could have been recovering on my own).   The drips were expensive, so I tried nebulizing glutathione.  I did it about three dozen times. 

How to nebulize glutathione.

https://www.theranat...rity-grade.html

Apply your own judgment.  Seek a doctor for such treatment if interested, 

 

I don't nebulize glutathione anymore.  Now I use Liponaturals liposomal glutathione when ailing.

[Dorian Grey]

I've always been a bit of a party hamster, & when I read NAC was the "secret ingredient" in hangover prevention, I took it daily 500mg/day for over a year.  I wasn't really drinking to the point of hangover, but I read the glutathione it generated helped metabolize acetaldehyde, which is a highly toxic metabolite of alcohol metabolism; so besides preventing hangover it also ameliorated tissue toxicity.  

 

I did notice a distinct improvement in my morning chipperness while on NAC, so I'm a believer that it actually does boost glutathione.  I hear you are supposed to take it on an empty stomach, & chase it with some Vitamin-C around an hour later (for hangover prevention).  Watch out if you're prone to kidney stones, as the cysteine component of NAC can help form these if you are dehydrated and/or lack sufficient fluid through-put.  

[DanCG]

I posted this idea to the MedCram COVID-19 community, and I thought I should put it here too, for discussion.

 

The backgound starts with Dr. Seheult’s Coronavirus Pandemic Update #95, which you really should watch. In it, he talks at length about this paper, which reported the finding of megakaryocytes in multiple organs in COVID-19 autopsies. Apparently, some patients have such high numbers of megakaryocytes and platelets that normal anti-coagulation therapy is overwhelmed. The autopsy findings are unexpected because megakaryocytes do not normally exit the bone marrow intact. Someone at the MedCram community posted this link, which shows that hematopoietic progenitors reside in the lungs: “These results identify the lungs as a primary site of terminal platelet production and an organ with considerable haematopoietic potential.”

 

The presence of hematopoietic progenitors in lungs and other tissues outside of the bone marrow is interesting because:

 

This study shows that engagement of TLR4 on hematopoietic progenitors “sustains progenitor cell proliferation and megakaryopoiesis in a TPO-independent fashion, inducing LPS-like responses, such as NF-κB activation and release of profibrotic IL-6.”

 

and

 

This in silico study which predicts that Sars-CoV-2 spike protein can interact directly with TLR4.

 

Putting it all together, it seems that Sars-CoV-2 virions could directly promote megakaryopoiesis from hematopoietic progenitors.

 

Therefore, spike protein itself could be a cause of the high numbers of megakaryocytes observed in the autopsy study.

 

In general, TLRs, especially TLR4, contribute to inflammation because they are activated by DAMPS (damage-associated molcular patterns) released by pathogens and dying cells. Platelets retain TLR4 and are activated by DAMPS after they are released from megakaryocytes. Even if the amount of direct stimulation of TLR4 on progenitors, megakaryocytes, and platelets by virions is small, it could happen early in infection and the effect would be later amplified by the DAMPS released during infection. If this scenario is correct, then inhibition of TLR4 would be more important in COVID-19 than in other viral infections.

 

With this in mind, you know what to do—look for supplements that inhibit TLR4!

 

Glycyrrhizin is one that has already been used to treat COVID-19. “Glycyrrhizin (GL) is a frequent component in traditional Chinese medicines, which have been used to control COVID-19 infections ...has anti-inflammatory properties by itself via toll like receptor 4 (TLR4) antagonism”.

 

[Gal220]

but have a more or less favorable inclination towards Pure Encapsulation, only because I've used a couple of products from them in the past.  They are naturally the more expensive option.

 

I bought Pure(thehealthbeat.com also thinks highly of them like Thorne) glutathione a week ago to aid in mercury detox, hopefully Levy is wrong about it probably being an emulsion - link

 

"Of note, a liposome preparation also does not come in a dry capsule, however, convenient this may be to take versus a thick, oily preparation."

[gamesguru]

Apparently, some patients have such high numbers of megakaryocytes and platelets that normal anti-coagulation therapy is overwhelmed.

 

Glycyrrhizin is one that has already been used to treat COVID-19

 

Yes why do some patients have higher numbers though.  Are the clotting happening in even asymptomatic cases, or is it unique to the ones who are dying?

Glycyrrhizin decreases testosterone, by about 80% with sustained use.

[LOOKINGFORTIME]

With the possibility of Rapamycin helping with the Coronavirus. Would you please repeat the retailers that we can trust?

 

COVID study examines efficacy of immune regulating drug

 

https://medicalxpres...=daily-nwletter

[thompson92]

Several of the doses are too high.  That much Zinc or Magnesium in a bio-available form would make me sick.

 

 

 

Maximum tolerable uptake for Vitamin C is 2 grams per day in adults.  These guidelines suggest 8 grams per day prophylaxis and then something like 10 grams daily in Early Treatment.  That seems crazy to me.  I would definitely get diarrhea.