3083 replies to this topic

[lancebr]

First documented case in the U.S. of someone getting infected a second time with a different strain:

 

https://www.business...n-nevada-2020-8

 

The interesting thing is that doctors thought if you got infected a second time you would have milder

symptoms compared to the first time, but in this situation the man had worse symptoms compared to

the first time he had it.

[Fred C. Dobbs]

are people in this thread still recommending Quercetin?

I found this canadian company that claims their Quercetin has 10x better absorption

 

 

Most brands use vitc or bromelain to enhance absorbtion, there is also EMIQ (40x absorbtion), probably what you are talking about.

 

The Canadian quercetin referenced above is not EMIQ. The Canadian company is Natural Factors, which sells both EMIQ and this newer product called "Quercetin LipoMicel Matrix."  It appears to be more cost-effective than EMIQ, if the absorption claim is correct.

 

Natural Factors spokesman and formulator Michael Murray briefly discusses EMIQ, Quercetin LipoMicel Matrix, and Quercetin Phytosome (QuerceFit) in the August 10, 2020, video here: 

 

https://youtu.be/dwfpVqevTU8?t=3226

 

He says he personally uses the Quercetin LipoMicel Matrix version for COVID prevention.

 

The Quercetin LipoMicel Matrix product webpage is currently not loading, but here is a cached version:

 

http://webcache.goog...pomicel-matrix/

 

Anyone have more info on Quercetin LipoMicel Matrix?

[Iporuru]

Bradykinin has been discussed here before.

 

A Supercomputer Analyzed Covid-19 — and an Interesting New Theory Has Emerged

https://elemental.me...ed-31cb8eba9d63

 

Is a Bradykinin Storm Brewing in COVID-19?

https://www.the-scie...covid-19--67876

[Hebbeh]

Bradykinin has been discussed here before.
A Supercomputer Analyzed Covid-19 — and an Interesting New Theory Has Emerged
https://elemental.me...ed-31cb8eba9d63
Is a Bradykinin Storm Brewing in COVID-19?
https://www.the-scie...covid-19--67876

This post should be made a sticky as it explains just why this virus is so dangerous. A must read for everybody. Thank you for posting this.

[Gal220]

Be interesting to look at the supercomputers progression of data that led it to this conclusion.  I hate reading black box statements like magical super computer figures it out...

 

Sounds like it explains the symptoms well enough and there are already approved drugs to handle it.  Hopefully there is a solid protocol for treating it here shortly. Few excerps 

 

"danazol, stanozolol, and ecallantide, reduce bradykinin production and could potentially stop a deadly bradykinin storm. Others, like icatibant, reduce bradykinin signaling and could blunt its effects once it’s already in the body."

 

"Hymecromone, for example, could reduce hyaluronic acid levels, potentially stopping deadly hydrogels from forming in the lungs. And timbetasin could mimic the mechanism that the researchers believe protects women from more severe Covid-19 infections. "

 

"If bradykinin storms cause the blood-brain barrier to break down, this could allow harmful cells and compounds into the brain, leading to inflammation, potential brain damage, and many of the neurological symptoms Covid-19 patients experience"

 

"Through another pathway, the team’s data shows, it increases production of hyaluronic acid (HLA) in the lungs"..."When it combines with fluid leaking into the lungs, the results are disastrous: It forms a hydrogel, which can fill the lungs in some patients. According to Jacobson, once this happens, “it’s like trying to breathe through Jell-O."

 

[Gal220]

Self hacked has a small section on possibly inhibiting bradykinn

 

-Avoid salty foods

-Add ginger

-Increase omega3 intake

-Avoid tobacco

[Gal220]

Thailand Medical reporting on a Canadian prepint - Prunella vulgaris extract(sold on amazon) and suramin block SARS-coronavirus 2 virus Spike protein D614 and G614

 

"To define the mechanisms of their actions, we demonstrated that both CHPV and suramin are able to directly interrupt SCoV-2–SP binding to its receptor ACE2 and block the viral entry step."

 

 

Be nice to know of a way to discover what else has been tried and failed...like quercetin.

Edited by Gal220, 03 September 2020 - 03:29 PM.

[lancebr]

Thailand Medical reporting on a Canadian prepint - Prunella vulgaris extract(sold on amazon) and suramin block SARS-coronavirus 2 virus Spike protein D614 and G614

 

"To define the mechanisms of their actions, we demonstrated that both CHPV and suramin are able to directly interrupt SCoV-2–SP binding to its receptor ACE2 and block the viral entry step."

 

 

Be nice to know of a way to discover what else has been tried and failed...like quercetin.

 

Interesting fact about Suramin is that it treats parasitic and river blindness, but because it has some not so good

side effects it has been replaced with Ivermectin which also treats parasitic and river blindness.

 

So maybe Ivermectin works in a similar way that Surmanin does on Covid.

[lancebr]

Found this info posted on another forum:

 

Argentina’s Hospital Zonal General de Agudos, Hospital Municipal Ángel Marzetti, Hospital Cuenca Alta, and Centro Médico Caseros have released

their preliminary results of the IVERCAR randomized clinical trial evaluating iota-carrageenan + ivermectin in the prevention of SARS-CoV-2 infection.

 

The study was carried out between June 1 and August 10, 2020 and recruited 1,195 health professionals, of which 407 received no treatment and

788 self-administered ivermectin oral drops and an iota-carrageenan nasal spray five times per day over 14 days. According to the data released,

58% of participants in the control group were infected with the virus during the trial, while no infections were recorded in the iota-carrageenan + ivermectin group, showing that the compounds’ virucidal effects can protect against SARS-CoV-2 infection.

 

In addition, both molecules were found to accumulate in the salivary glands, having the potential to prevent viral spread by asymptomatic patients by

inactivating the viral particles in the saliva.

 

This is the first time I have heard anything about carrageenan. I know it is used as a thickener for food products.

 

Here is the study:

 

http://www.pharmabai...s-de-salud.html

 

Here is a translated version:

 

https://translate.go...s-de-salud.html

 

Here is additional information about carrageenan:

 

Iota-carrageenan and Xylitol inhibit SARS-CoV-2 in cell culture

 

https://www.biorxiv.....08.19.225854v1

 

Edited by lancebr, 05 September 2020 - 07:39 PM.

[Mind]

NMN cocktail rescues 9 elderly patients with severe COVID-19. https://papers.ssrn....ract_id=3677428

 

As has been mentioned many times in this thread, there are simple treatments with well-known safe nutrients, in addition to HCQ, antibiotics, ivermectin, etc. that have been proven to help with COVID-19 (now NMN perhaps as well). Yet, national media outlets barely mention any of it. All we get is "wear masks or go to jail".

Edited by Mind, 06 September 2020 - 11:05 PM.

[Kalliste]

I had no idea Ambroxol (or bromhexine which is metabolized 75 % first pass into Ambroxol) had such potent effects. Someone exposed to smoking or pollution might want to be on this for long term. Dialing down neutrophils is probably not good though.

 

 https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC1574083/

Attached Files

•  EhNrLjNXYAAZOPJ.jpg   422.09KB   0 downloads

[geo12the]

NMN cocktail rescues 9 elderly patients with severe COVID-19. https://papers.ssrn....ract_id=3677428

 

As has been mentioned many times in this thread, there are simple treatments with well-known safe nutrients, in addition to HCQ, antibiotics, ivermectin, etc. that have been proven to help with COVID-19 (now NMN perhaps as well). Yet, national media outlets barely mention any of it. All we get is "wear masks or go to jail"

 

The issue with this disease is that most people get better anyway. It's hard to tease apart efficacy of treatments unless you do placebo controlled clinical trials. Otherwise it's witchcraft. The treatments you mention HCQ, Ivermectin etc., have not shown efficiency in clinical trials yet so to say they are "proven to help" is not accurate. The clinical trials are showing some treatments like Remdesavir and steroids do help, and these are now offered to people. My brother who is a pulmonologist and in the thick of it in NY says the combination of Remdesavir and steroids is real game changer. HCQ not so much. 

[FSL]

Chris Masterjohn updated his position on Vitamin D (again) recently:

 

Finally Confirmed! Vitamin D Nearly Abolishes ICU Risk in COVID-19

 

https://chrismasterj...isk-in-covid-19

 

Citing this:

 

Effect of Calcifediol Treatment and best Available Therapy versus best Available Therapy on Intensive Care Unit Admission and Mortality Among Patients Hospitalized for COVID-19: A Pilot Randomized Clinical study

 

https://www.scienced...302764?via=ihub

 

Of 50 patients treated with calcifediol, one required admission to the ICU (2%), while of 26 untreated patients, 13 required admission (50%) p value X2 Fischer test p < 0.001. Univariate Risk Estimate Odds Ratio for ICU in patients with Calcifediol treatment versus without Calcifediol treatment: 0.02 (95%CI 0.002-0.17). Multivariate Risk Estimate Odds Ratio for ICU in patients with Calcifediol treatment vs Without Calcifediol treatment ICU (adjusting by Hypertension and T2DM): 0.03 (95%CI: 0.003-0.25). Of the patients treated with calcifediol, none died, and all were discharged, without complications. The 13 patients not treated with calcifediol, who were not admitted to the ICU, were discharged. Of the 13 patients admitted to the ICU, two died and the remaining 11 were discharged.

Edited by FSL, 07 September 2020 - 05:32 PM.

[geo12the]

I got a "needs reference"

 

https://jamanetwork....utm_term=090220

Edited by geo12the, 07 September 2020 - 05:29 PM.

[FSL]

India's Ayurvedic medicine recipe: Coronil, with Ashwagandha, Giloy, and Tulsi (i.e. Basil):

 

https://www.india.co...tients-4066455/

 

I found this interesting because in the following:

 

https://www.longecit...-56#entry893120

 

I said

 

If Table 1 is taken as is, Ashwagandha components have the best overall binding affinity, followed by Ursolic acid and Crategolic acid, which are in turn better than what were discussed here like Curcumin, Hesperidin, Quercetin, Rosmarinic acid etc.

 

But there was another set of compounds that were high on the list that I totally ignored as I didn't know what they were: Tinocordifolioside, Tinocordioside, Tinosporaside, and Tinosporide.  It turned out they could all be found from Giloy, which official name is Tinospora cordifolia, per https://en.wikipedia...pora_cordifolia.

 

In addition, Basil is a source of Ursolic acid (as well as apple skins).

 

Edited by FSL, 07 September 2020 - 05:32 PM.

[lancebr]

Chris Masterjohn updated his position on Vitamin D (again) recently:

 

 

Citing this:

 

People have been saying this for a while about Vitamin D.  He is just behind on the time.

[smithx]

Ivermectin may be a clinically useful anti-inflammatory agent for late-stage COVID-19
https://openheart.bm...ent/7/2/e001350

In 2008, Zhang et al studied the impact of ivermectin in mice challenged with intraperitoneal lipopolysaccharide (LPS). They chose a dose of LPS that induced 100% mortality within 5 days. They then demonstrated that oral ivermectin, administering 2  hours prior to LPS, dose dependently reduced mortality in the LPS-treated mice, with a significant 50% reduction in mortality being achieved at a 4 mg/kg dose. In vitro studies likewise confirmed the ability of this agent to block cytokine production by LPS-challenged macrophages.

When we extrapolate this dose from 20 g mice to 70 kg humans, using the two-thirds power of relative body mass (ratio of body surface areas) as a correction factor, 4 mg/kg in mice corresponds to about 18 mg in humans—double the standard clinical dose. Allometric scaling by the three-fourths power (Kleiber’s law) yields a dose of 36 mg.

 

 

[smithx]

Kynurenic acid underlies sex-specific immune responses to COVID-19

https://www.medrxiv....9.06.20189159v2

KA is known to inhibit glutamate release, and we observed that serum glutamate is lower in patients that deteriorate from COVID-19 compared to those that stabilize, and correlates with immune responses.

 

 

So increasing glutamate might help men to die at least no more than women -- for example by taking alpha ketoglutaric acid

 

Edited by smithx, 09 September 2020 - 02:49 AM.

[Daniel Cooper]

Be nice to know of a way to discover what else has been tried and failed...like quercetin.

 

Has quercetin in fact been shown to fail to help protect against covid? 

 

 

[Gal220]

Has quercetin in fact been shown to fail to help protect against covid? 

 

No failure, speculation on both sides - For and Against.

 

Seems amazing to me we dont know, obviously the unique situation of asymptomatic/fast recoveries makes it difficult or the general public would have figured it out by now.

 

However it has so many benefits, I would recommend people take it anyway, especially those 45+ - Colon Cancer (also)/ other cancers, Thorne uses it to slow breakdown of Resveratrol , Gout 

 

 

From Thailand medical news

 

"Quercetin promotes SIRT2, which then inhibits the NLRP3 inflammasome assembly involved with COVID-19"  - How effective is that?

 

From the same article, and you can read this on numerous pages

 

"It was found in cell cultures, quercetin has been shown to prevent viral entry and reduce cytopathic effects"

 

If quercetin does prevent viral entry of covid in-vitro, how is that information not known by now?

 

It is probably helpful like many things(mushroom extracts), but I am leaning with the against people for now. 

 

Im over 45 and Gout sufferer, so I am taking it anyway.

Edited by Gal220, 09 September 2020 - 05:23 AM.

[albedo]

I guess many here knew this already ....

• The vitamin D endocrine system may have a variety of actions on cells and tissues involved in COVID-19 progression.

• Administration of calcifediol or 25-hydroxyvitamin D to hospitalized COVID-19 patients significantly reduced their need for Intensive Care United admission.

• Calcifediol seems to be able to reduce severity of the disease.

Castillo ME, Entrenas costa LM, Vaquero barrios JM, et al. "Effect of Calcifediol Treatment and best Available Therapy versus best Available Therapy on Intensive Care Unit Admission and Mortality Among Patients Hospitalized for COVID-19: A Pilot Randomized Clinical study". J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2020;:105751.

https://www.scienced...302764?via=ihub
https://chrismasterj...isk-in-covid-19

Edited by albedo, 11 September 2020 - 01:05 PM.

[lancebr]

.

 

Quadruple Therapy with Ivermectin is effective in treating COVID-19

 

“Quadruple Therapy includes:

 

Ivermectin 12 mg one dose,

Doxycycline 100 mg once a day for four days,

Zinc 50 mg once a day for four days and

Vitamin D3 once a week.

 

Ivermectin, Doxycycline and Zinc are to be repeated every 14 days and Vitamin D3 every week with blood levels monitored.

The synergistic effect of these medicine acts to prevent viral multiplication and also stop the virus from entering human cells."

 

 

https://www.universa...ating-covid-19/

Edited by lancebr, 15 September 2020 - 06:57 PM.

[pamojja]

found on an other forum:

 

 Screenshot_20200916_215730.png   115.32KB   5 downloads

[Gal220]

found on an other forum:

 

Screenshot_20200916_215730.png

 

The 6000 is interesting, but it would be way more informative to tell us what vitamin D level he was targeting based on what study/recommendation.

 

I would bet he is around 75 ng/ml at that dosage and his size.   Hopefully he is taking the cofactors - calc/mag , vitamin A, k2, and omegas

[pamojja]

Don't think he is that sophisticated. He does take ii with viamin c though: https://www.insider....ty-boost-2020-9

[kurdishfella]

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5541280/

and around 8000 IU for young adults and thereafter. Actions are urgently needed to protect the global population from vitamin D deficiency.

 

[Gal220]

University of Pittsburgh scientists discover antibody that 'neutralizes' virus that causes COVID-19

 

"According to the report, the drug has been “highly effective in preventing and treating” the SARS-CoV-2 infections in mice and hamsters during tests.

 

The drug also reportedly does not bind to human cells, which suggests it will not have negative side effects in people"

 

"Ab8 not only has potential as therapy for COVID-19, but it also could be used to keep people from getting SARS-CoV-2 infections"

 

 

More info at Pittwire 

[Daniel Cooper]

I've never understood why no one seems to be pursing monoclonal and polyclonal antibodies that are naturally found in recovered covid patients. Take convalescent plasma, identify the covid specific antibodies (this has already been done) and then produce them on an industrial scale using clonal techniques.  This would be equivalent to using convalescent plasma except you'd have for all practical purposes a limitless supply and you wouldn't have to worry about transmitting infectious disease as is an issue with using blood products. 

 

When a new monoclonal drug is produced, normally it has to be engineered and usually simply acts by binding to the same sites as the body's natural antibodies without signaling the immune system that this is an invader that should be attacked.  By "clogging up" these binding sites you can stop autoimmune diseases lie rheumatoid arthritis from progressing.  Almost all the effort in developing these agents is in engineering an antibody that does not occur in nature and then testing to make sure that it doesn't have unwanted side effects.

 

In what I would propose, nature has already done the engineering for you, and since this is an antibody that the human body would produce on it's if it recovers, the need for testing is minimal.  As I say, it's a quick and dirty way of getting the equivalent of lots of convalescent plasma.

 

I suppose there is the issue if such a copy of a naturally occurring antibody would be patentable. If as I would assume not, that might explain the lack of interest.

 

This small molecule antibody is very exciting.  But, it will have to undergo some fairly rigorous testing before it is brought to market.

 

Who knows, at the end of the day when covid is solved we might end up with a vaccine or treatment for the common cold as an consequence.

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 18 September 2020 - 05:33 PM.

[Izan]

Remember the discovery from Dutch scientists about bradykinin inciting most if not all of the damage, including the subsequent cytokine storm?

 

I posted about it a few pages back. They basically claimed the following: block or decrease the effect of bradykinin and no harm will be done to the organs. 

 

So covid-19 enters the human body and then using the ace2 receptor to enter a cell --> it then hijacks a host cell and starts doing its thing--> ace2 receptor vanishes from the cells where covid-19 enters -->  bradykinin gets free reign (ace2 keeps bradykinin in check: no ace2 = NO protector around) --> vascular leakage ---> upregulation proinflammatory cytokines ---> cytokin storm --> organ failure (especially the lungs).

 

Well, i found this:

 

Acute administration of nicotine in the rat decreases bradykinin-induced plasma extravasation

 

https://www.scienced...30645229290304K

 

This literally means that nicotine decreases the leakage of blood, lymph, or other fluid from a blood vessel caused by bradykinin.

 

So Nicotine replaces the role of ACE2 (acting as a guardian and trying to keep Bradykinin in check) which has been taken out by COVID-19 once it enters the host cell.

 

Any thoughts guys?

 

Long time no see my friends!

 

 

A Supercomputer Analyzed Covid-19 — and an Interesting New Theory Has Emerged

A closer look at the Bradykinin hypothesis

 

 

https://elemental.me...ed-31cb8eba9d63

 

 

I talked about this theory many months ago already and now a supercomputer has confirmed this finding.

 

 

 

You can counter it with: Icatibant (natural=Bromelain) and vitamin D.

Edited by izan82, 19 September 2020 - 10:12 AM.

[Gal220]

 

You can counter it with: Icatibant (natural=Bromelain) and vitamin D.

 

Self hacked didnt mention bromelain, but it has popped up in a few places.  Thailand medical news did a piece on it recently, not unlike several other nutrients.  Hard to know what to believe, hopefully it pans out.  Its often sold as a combo with quercetin for those that are interested.

Edited by Gal220, 19 September 2020 - 06:50 PM.