3083 replies to this topic

[Gal220]

From the beginning of this pandemic, there have been numerous publications devoted to looking for known drugs that can be repurposed to treat COVID-19. Many promising leads have not been followed up on, but one has—Ivermectin. 

 

For me this is the main issue, not IVM, the lack of follow up.  Like we were not really serious about winning this till we got the vaccine or another high priced drug like Remdesivir. 

 

Steve Kirsch is even bigger on fluvoxamine than IVM, imo it should have already been approved for compassionate use as well.  H202 could have also quickly been investigated (in every hospital too) along with a slew of other anti-virals.

 

And this notion that Trump was wrong for pushing HCQ, whether Zalenko is right or not, is the most ignorant thing Ive ever seen.  Simply unbelievable..is it war time or peace time?  The NIH certainly doesnt think its war time.

Edited by Gal220, 11 March 2021 - 12:20 AM.

[DanCG]

Watch: starting at 17:20, Dr. Campbell catches the FDA flat out lying about the anti-viral effects of Ivermectin.

 

[Hebbeh]

Re: post #2574

 

Hebbeh writes: "Off label usage doesn't mean you can ignore manufacturers recommended dosing schedule."

 

The temporal administration of ivermectin lies under the same aegis of “off-label” considerations for, and is homologous to, those considerations assumed of “dosage” determinations—i.e. the amount of deviation from “approved” protocols, both in dosage and in duration, is totally under the discretion and prerogative of the prescribing physician.

 

An example criterion for an “approved” drug is: “How to use the drug to treat those specific diseases and conditions.”. See the previously given “off-label” link in post #2575. Clearly, “how to use..” includes span of treatment (see your Mayo quotes, e.g., in post #2572) and that span can be modified in any manner that the prescribing physician deems appropriate.

 

Riddle me this.  If everything you're claiming is that simple and straightforward, why has not hardly a single doctor in the US taken it upon themselves to this off label usage under the conditions you're suggesting?  Could it be due to fear of malpractice lawsuits like I stated?

[DanCG]

Riddle me this.  If everything you're claiming is that simple and straightforward, why has not hardly a single doctor in the US taken it upon themselves to this off label usage under the conditions you're suggesting?  Could it be due to fear of malpractice lawsuits like I stated?

 

The typical primary care physician is busy and does not have the time or inclination to delve into cutting edge science. An oncologist friend of mine admitted to me that he spends no time at all with basic science literature. They rely on official positions taken by specialist associations, agencies like the FDA, NIH, and CDC, and drug companies to tell them what to do. And they know that judges and juries also rely these sources. So while the letter of the law may permit them a lot of leeway, they are not inclined or knowledgeable to use that leeway and they are afraid to do anything that might be construed as unorthodox. That is why it is so important that these official bodies give the green light.

[Advocatus Diaboli]

re: post #2583

 

Hebbeh wrote: "If everything you're claiming is that simple and straightforward, why has not hardly a single doctor in the US taken it upon themselves to this off label usage under the conditions you're suggesting?

 

I don't know how many doctors have adopted ivermectin-off-label protocols for COVID-19 treatment.

 

Hebbeh wrote: "Could it be due to fear of malpractice lawsuits like I stated?"

 

I suppose that's a possibility, considering that the US, for one, is a litigious society, or, maybe we aren't.

 

[Hebbeh]

re: post #2583

 

Hebbeh wrote: "If everything you're claiming is that simple and straightforward, why has not hardly a single doctor in the US taken it upon themselves to this off label usage under the conditions you're suggesting?

 

I don't know how many doctors have adopted ivermectin-off-label protocols for COVID-19 treatment.

 

Hebbeh wrote: "Could it be due to fear of malpractice lawsuits like I stated?"

 

I suppose that's a possibility, considering that the US, for one, is a litigious society, or, maybe we aren't.

 

And as DanCG correctly stated, doctors typically don't invite or risk malpractice suits by second guessing manufacturers recommended dosing schedules by exceeding the recommended dose.  The only off label usage doctors may consider is repurposing a drug at the recommended dose per the Physician's Desk Reference.  In spite of your cherry picked 2 tablet example, it just isn't done and therefore a fallacy.

[Advocatus Diaboli]

Re: post #2582

 

Acting in the capacity of my nick, I'll just mention that, for purposes of the FDA, "antiviral" seems to mean a drug that has been specifically approved for use as an agent that kills, or suppresses the reproduction of, viruses (or, as the FDA says in Dr. Campbell's vid "a drug for treating viruses").

 

And, for Dr. Campbell's purposes, he seems to classify, by implication, an "antiviral" as being any agent that can kill viruses--specifically designed to, or not. I don't think Dr. Campbell was being captious. It appears to me, to be a classic case of "talking past each other" in an unattached way. A simple malentendu arising from not having clear statements that represent agreed-upon definitions of the terms being used.

[Gal220]

Riddle me this.  If everything you're claiming is that simple and straightforward, why has not hardly a single doctor in the US taken it upon themselves to this off label usage under the conditions you're suggesting?  Could it be due to fear of malpractice lawsuits like I stated?

You can see a list of doctors prescribing it in the US here - https://www.exstnc.com/    List is growing, but in the grand scheme of doctors, not that many.   It would be nice if they would post the effectiveness.

 

This was interesting addition

 Dr. Darrel DeMello, a family practitioner who has treated more than 3000 COVID-19 patients - claims easy to treat at 9:47.

https://youtu.be/_h16NUYlSAo?t=587

 

Also good info.

In addition, no adverse reactions (contraindications) are typical from simultaneous use of IVM and HCQ and other substances in the treatment protocols. Some doctors include both IVM and HCQ+Zinc in their treatments.

Resources for the thousands of chronic ("long hauler") COVID-19 patients can be found at the developing   www.covidlonghaulers.com .  Ivermectin appears to have significant efficacy for many long haulers.

 

Edited by Gal220, 11 March 2021 - 04:21 AM.

[Advocatus Diaboli]

re: post #2586

 

Firstly, Hebbeh, give a link to your asseveration that:

 

"The only off label usage doctors may consider is repurposing a drug at the recommended dose per the Physician's Desk Reference."

 

Then, I'll school you as to why you're wrong (again).

[joesixpack]

Re: post #2574

 

Hebbeh writes: "Off label usage doesn't mean you can ignore manufacturers recommended dosing schedule."

 

The temporal administration of ivermectin lies under the same aegis of “off-label” considerations for, and is homologous to, those considerations assumed of “dosage” determinations—i.e. the amount of deviation from “approved” protocols, both in dosage and in duration, is totally under the discretion and prerogative of the prescribing physician.

 

An example criterion for an “approved” drug is: “How to use the drug to treat those specific diseases and conditions.”. See the previously given “off-label” link in post #2575. Clearly, “how to use..” includes span of treatment (see your Mayo quotes, e.g., in post #2572) and that span can be modified in any manner that the prescribing physician deems appropriate.

Here is where I am. I get tested positive. Right now they send you home, see how you do. When you are approaching death, go to the hospital.

 

I want the ability to take ivermectin and  hydroclhoriquine, whether it works or not. It is something, and better than the nothing offered by the cdc and the fda.

 

If it works great, if it does not at least we have tried.

 

What is the point to say no one can access these drugs?

 

They work for many, maybe not for all. So what. Let people take them, lives would be saved.

Edited by joesixpack, 11 March 2021 - 04:59 AM.

[Gal220]

I havent seen this posted, Zalenko more informed than I thought, some one posted his protocol on Gab.  - 5000 IU  D, 1000 mg C, 25mg zinc , and 500 mg of quercetin.  I like FLCC protocol better, includes b vitamins and melatonin.  Just they overdose zinc.

[lancebr]

You can see a list of doctors prescribing it in the US here - https://www.exstnc.com/    List is growing, but in the grand scheme of doctors, not that many.   It would be nice if they would post the effectiveness.

 

This was interesting addition

 Dr. Darrel DeMello, a family practitioner who has treated more than 3000 COVID-19 patients - claims easy to treat at 9:47.

https://youtu.be/_h16NUYlSAo?t=587

 

Also good info.

 

Interesting.....He believes that Ivermectin should be taken on an empty stomach and not with a fatty meal due to inflammation. 
 

[lancebr]

From pubmed on safety of IVM

 

I rather not use a pharmaceuticals long term if I dont have to, H202 with .1% seems the safest/effective protocol to me. Levy even recommends up to 3%.  Brownstein has the most experience and hes titrated down to .04%.  While I believe this is the best(again crazy we dont know), the fact remains, all the real evidence is with IVM.  If we had a real NIH that cared about people, we would know more about it as well.  Gulp, another 70k dead this month..

 

So is there somewhere that goes into detail about the H202 protocol and how to use it for Covid?
 

[pamojja]

So is there somewhere that goes into detail about the H202 protocol and how to use it for Covid?

 

https://articles.mer...n-peroxide.aspx

 

You may search on that site, since there might be an update meanwhile.

Edited by pamojja, 11 March 2021 - 11:30 AM.

[Gal220]

re: post #2586

 

Firstly, Hebbeh, give a link to your asseveration that:

 

"The only off label usage doctors may consider is repurposing a drug at the recommended dose per the Physician's Desk Reference."

 

I think Hebbeh has valid concerns, but how is it March 2021 and we dont know?  Why wasnt it approved for high risk people who were looking at death by ventilator anyway?  Just like HCQ, whether you believe in it or not, lets find out.  It was approved over 20 years ago.  Yet we get gung ho about remdesivir and the vaccine that have virtually no history, which is ok, but do the same for the other drugs !

[Gal220]

https://articles.mer...n-peroxide.aspx

 

You may search on that site, since there might be an update meanwhile.

Same protocol they been using for years - tip 18 on mercolas covid page - https://www.mercola....ombat-covid.htm , same article

 

Dilute food-grade hydrogen peroxide down to a 0.1% (my recommendation) or 0.04% solution (Dr. Brownstein's recommendation). If you want, you can add one drop of 5% Lugol's iodine solution, and nebulize using a desktop nebulizer

 

Some people recommend using saline solution instead of distilled water to dilute(just a matter of boiling the distilled water with a bit of salt), more info here - https://www.earthcli...inhalation.html

Edited by Gal220, 11 March 2021 - 02:39 PM.

[Hebbeh]

Aspirin use for cardiovascular disease may reduce likelihood of COVID-19 infection, study finds -- ScienceDaily

 

The researchers analyzed data of 10,477 persons who had been tested for COVID-19 during the first COVID-19 wave in Israel from February 1, 2020 to June 30, 2020. Aspirin use to avoid the development of cardiovascular diseases in healthy individuals was associated with a 29% lower likelihood of COVID-19 infection, as compared to aspirin non-users. The proportion of patients treated with aspirin was significantly lower among the COVID-19-positive individuals, as compared to the COVID-19-negative ones. And those subjects who had been treated with aspirin were less associated with the likelihood of COVID-19 infection than those who were not. Moreover, the group observed that the conversion time of SARS-CoV-2 PCR test results from positive to negative among aspirin-using COVID-positive patients was significantly shorter, and the disease duration was two-three days shorter, depending upon the patients' pre-existing conditions.

 

 

The FEBS Journal, 2021; DOI: 10.1111/febs.15784

 

Rest at link

[lancebr]

Aspirin use for cardiovascular disease may reduce likelihood of COVID-19 infection, study finds -- ScienceDaily

 

The researchers analyzed data of 10,477 persons who had been tested for COVID-19 during the first COVID-19 wave in Israel from February 1, 2020 to June 30, 2020. Aspirin use to avoid the development of cardiovascular diseases in healthy individuals was associated with a 29% lower likelihood of COVID-19 infection, as compared to aspirin non-users. The proportion of patients treated with aspirin was significantly lower among the COVID-19-positive individuals, as compared to the COVID-19-negative ones. And those subjects who had been treated with aspirin were less associated with the likelihood of COVID-19 infection than those who were not. Moreover, the group observed that the conversion time of SARS-CoV-2 PCR test results from positive to negative among aspirin-using COVID-positive patients was significantly shorter, and the disease duration was two-three days shorter, depending upon the patients' pre-existing conditions.

The FEBS Journal, 2021; DOI: 10.1111/febs.15784

 

Rest at link

 

So would the 29% lower likelihood of Covid19 infection be worth the potential risks that come with aspirin (especially for the elderly)....like a

 

37% higher risk of intracranial hemorrhage (brain bleed)? 

 

https://medicalxpres...se-aspirin.html

 

https://www.aarp.org...ly-aspirin.html

 

The 29% just seems kinda low when taking into consideration the risks of aspirin for the elderly.

 

 

 

 

Edited by lancebr, 12 March 2021 - 07:59 AM.

[zorba990]

So would the 29% lower likelihood of Covid19 infection be worth the potential risks that come with aspirin (especially for the elderly)....like a

37% higher risk of intracranial hemorrhage (brain bleed)?

https://medicalxpres...se-aspirin.html

https://www.aarp.org...ly-aspirin.html

The 29% just seems kinda low when taking into consideration the risks of aspirin for the elderly.

What is the mechanism of action here for aspirin? Its known to have SOD mimetic qualities when complexed with minerals.

https://www.research...ylates_In_Vitro
Antioxidants are chemicals that neutralize free-radicals oxidants in physiological systems. They can be classified as organic i.e. natural or synthetic antioxidants e.g. Manganese and Copper salicylates which have thus by this study demonstrated promise for their potential for antioxidants activity as useful superoxide free-radical scavenging elements in vitro. In this study the naturally occurring superoxide dismutase enzyme activity was mimicked using manganese and copper salicylates on pyrogallol (an organic oxidative agent). Human erythrocytes were lysed and the haemoglobin removed before centrifugation to obtain the blood serum that contained the antioxidant enzyme i.e. superoxide dismutase (SOD). The serum was treated with pyrogallol at varying concentration to determine the superoxide dismutase activity as the reference assay, manganese salicylate and copper salicylate were used to simulate the SOD activity experienced in the reference assay.

e.g.

https://www.research...virus_infection

Measles virus infection of B-cells results in marked alterations in proliferation and immunoglobulin production. Very little is known about the changes of gene expression, if any, during acute measles virus infection. To elucidate cellular genes that are induced during measles virus infection, we carried out a subtraction technique, representational differential analysis. The mitochondrial protein, manganese superoxide dismutase (MnSOD), was upregulated in B-cells during measles virus infection. Although measles virus-infected B-cells did not secrete MnSOD into the environment, it was found, using an MnSOD mimetic, that intracellular MnSOD did inhibit proliferation of the B-cells. MnSOD also decreases the titer of virus produced from infected cells. Therefore, MnSOD seems to play a role in the alteration of immune function seen upon infection of B-cells with measles virus.

Of course both of these are reduced with excessive Zinc supplementation
(https://www.healthli...pper-deficiency) "Zinc supplementation is also a common cause of copper deficiency. This is because zinc and copper compete for absorption in the stomach, with zinc being the usual winner. As a result, copper isn’t absorbed."

[geo12the]

What is the mechanism of action here for aspirin? Its known to have SOD mimetic qualities when complexed with minerals.

 

 

I think the mechanism of action is probably due to it's blood thinning and ant-coagulant properties. 

 

https://www.bhf.org....d-complications

[geo12the]

COVID severity is linked to parasitic infection. Parasite infestations reduce COVID-19 severity.

 

https://www.medrxiv....2.02.21250995v1

https://www.news-med...9-severity.aspx

 

Most of the studies I've seen showing Ivermectin helping COVID are association studies in the developing world (Mexico, Brazil, India, Bangladesh etc.). i.e.: these people were given Ivermectin and they did better. How much of that beneficial effect is because maybe those people were given Ivermectin for parasites? And the parasites are the reason they did better? 

[Gal220]

COVID severity is linked to parasitic infection. Parasite infestations reduce COVID-19 severity.

 

https://www.medrxiv....2.02.21250995v1

https://www.news-med...9-severity.aspx

 

Most of the studies I've seen showing Ivermectin helping COVID are association studies in the developing world (Mexico, Brazil, India, Bangladesh etc.). i.e.: these people were given Ivermectin and they did better. How much of that beneficial effect is because maybe those people were given Ivermectin for parasites? And the parasites are the reason they did better? 

I could see how a parasite would ramp up your immunity, but look at the percentages on https://c19ivermectin.com .. I think there is more to it than that.  But either way, we should know, be nice if Dr.Kory/Marik could publish some results..

[Advocatus Diaboli]

Re post #2600

 

The question of mechanism of action in post #2599 refers to aspirin's mechanism of action that results in "29% lower likelihood of Covid19 infection", not what is aspirin's mechanism of action that might reduce occurrence of thrombosis, e.g., by its antiplatelet properties, e.g., for an already infected person.

[Dorian Grey]

I read the mechanism of action was depleting PGE2 prostaglandins, which the virus finds useful.  

 

https://www.dailymai...tudy-finds.html

 

One tablet of ASPIRIN a day can reduce your risk of catching Covid-19 by up to 29 per cent, study finds

 

When the body detects a viral infection it produces interferon I (IFN) which controls the cellular response to the invader.  However, RNA viruses like SARS-CoV-2, which causes Covid-19, escape recognition by evading IFN.   The virus does this by forcing the body to make more of a chemical called prostaglandin E2 (PGE2) which inhibits IFN as well as causing the destruction of some white blood cells.   'As low-dose aspirin inhibits PGE2 biosynthesis, this mechanism might enhance anti-viral immunity via induction of type I IFN,' the researchers write.

 

----------------------

 

Apparently "Low Dose" (what used to be called baby aspirin) / (75-81mg) is all you need, so perhaps not as dangerous regarding the bleeding risk.  

Edited by Dorian Grey, 13 March 2021 - 03:50 AM.

[bladedmind]

A few months ago I posted Peruvian Dr. Aguirre-Chang's protocol, centered on ivermectin and aspirin, which I made the core of my personal treatment plan.  Interesting work:  https://www.research...o-Aguirre-Chang

 

January 2021 protocol:

 

 AguirreChang Jan 2021.jpg   321.55KB   1 downloads

[DanCG]

 

 

Apparently "Low Dose" (what used to be called baby aspirin) / (75-81mg) is all you need, so perhaps not as dangerous regarding the bleeding risk.  

That was my initial reaction too, but the linked papers are specifically about low dose aspirin. The risk is for people over 70. I don't think the word has gotten out about that because I know at least one 80+ who is still taking aspirin at doctor's advice. Aspirin is included in the "polypill" that some people tout as a good strategy to prevent heart attacks.

[DanCG]

COVID severity is linked to parasitic infection. Parasite infestations reduce COVID-19 severity.

 

https://www.medrxiv....2.02.21250995v1

https://www.news-med...9-severity.aspx

 

Most of the studies I've seen showing Ivermectin helping COVID are association studies in the developing world (Mexico, Brazil, India, Bangladesh etc.). i.e.: these people were given Ivermectin and they did better. How much of that beneficial effect is because maybe those people were given Ivermectin for parasites? And the parasites are the reason they did better? 

I am not seeing the reasoning here. If parasites are protective, then treating the parasites with ivermectin should make matters worse. The placebo arm of RCTs would be equally prone to parasites.

Also, give the researchers in these countries some credit for being able to recognize that parasites could be a confounder.

[albedo]

A few months ago I posted Peruvian Dr. Aguirre-Chang's protocol, centered on ivermectin and aspirin, which I made the core of my personal treatment plan.  Interesting work:  https://www.research...o-Aguirre-Chang

 

January 2021 protocol:

 

AguirreChang Jan 2021.jpg

 

Great chart Blademind. I did not research on it and just wonder if the FLCCC team has any take on this protocol beside IVM. Thank you for sharing the image!

https://covid19criticalcare.com/

[Dorian Grey]

Epilogue to the sham-show Cali Colombia Ivermectin Trial from trial site news:

 

 

Smells very much like a redoux of the Surgisphere / HCQ fiasco.   Placebos have side effects?  Who knew?

 

JAMA, New York Times, CNN & FDA should be called out over their disgraceful gaslighting. 

 

We’re not crazy; it’s the world that’s gone mad!

[zorba990]

I read the mechanism of action was depleting PGE2 prostaglandins, which the virus finds useful.

https://www.dailymai...tudy-finds.html

One tablet of ASPIRIN a day can reduce your risk of catching Covid-19 by up to 29 per cent, study finds

When the body detects a viral infection it produces interferon I (IFN) which controls the cellular response to the invader. However, RNA viruses like SARS-CoV-2, which causes Covid-19, escape recognition by evading IFN. The virus does this by forcing the body to make more of a chemical called prostaglandin E2 (PGE2) which inhibits IFN as well as causing the destruction of some white blood cells. 'As low-dose aspirin inhibits PGE2 biosynthesis, this mechanism might enhance anti-viral immunity via induction of type I IFN,' the researchers write.

----------------------

Apparently "Low Dose" (what used to be called baby aspirin) / (75-81mg) is all you need, so perhaps not as dangerous regarding the bleeding risk.

I'l stick with Echinacea then, since I know there are not only no personal side effects but enhanced immunity based on blood work from many years ago (when it was free for me at a lab I was working at)
https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/17696440/
"Abstract

Inhibition of prostaglandin E(2) (PGE(2)) production in lipopolysaccharide-stimulated RAW264.7 mouse macrophage cells was assessed with an enzyme immunoassay following treatments with Echinacea extracts or synthesized alkamides. Results indicated that ethanol extracts diluted in media to a concentration of 15 microg/mL from E. angustifolia, E. pallida, E. simulata, and E. sanguinea significantly inhibited PGE2 production. In further studies, PGE2 production was significantly reduced by all synthesized alkamides assayed at 50 microM, by Bauer alkamides 8, 12A analogue, and 14, Chen alkamide 2, and Chen alkamide 2 analogue at 25 microM and by Bauer alkamide 14 at 10 microM. Cytotoxicity did not play a role in the noted reduction of PGE2 production in either the Echinacea extracts or synthesized alkamides. High-performance liquid chromatography analysis identified individual alkamides present at concentrations below 2.8 microM in the extracts from the six Echinacea species (15 microg/mL crude extract). Because active extracts contained <2.8 microM of specific alkamide and the results showed that synthetic alkamides must have a minimum concentration of 10 microM to inhibit PGE2, it is likely that alkamides may contribute toward the anti-inflammatory activity of Echinacea in a synergistic or additive manner."