3083 replies to this topic

[Dorian Grey]

What about the elderly man, who, for political reasons, decides to not get vaccinated and comes down with COVID and ends up a ventilator?  That could have been prevented if he had just gotten the vaccine. That is the reality that is playing out now. 

 

And once people are sick they are not told "NO, there is nothing...  Don't come in, there is no prescription". My brother is an MD and he works his ass off for his patients. There ARE therapeutics like steroids that help those who are sick. Steroids are inexpensive and have been shown to work. They are not as sexy to some as HCQ but they work.

 

I just don't think any outpatient therapeutics are as effective as vaccines. That is not a political opinion, it's reality.

 

We've had a whole year before the vaccines were available.  What of the millions already under the sod?  What of the billions in the third world who still don't have access to the jabs.  The world looked to America to show them the way.  The American way was...  Remdesivir!  Doesn't work, but what the heck, we made some bling eh?  

Edited by Dorian Grey, 28 July 2021 - 05:34 AM.

[Qowpel]

EGCG and curcumin should be taken together, both show a high binding affinity to the virus.

 

Ive been doing EGCG/Curcumin in the morning, Quercetin/Bromelain(sold together, helps Quercetin) in the afternoon for prevention, along with a normal vitamin regimen(should includes vitamin Bs, C, D, zinc, and selenium).  

Very interesting. However one thing I must ask. You see, I read a lot of people who were using prophylactics (the exact ones above plus NAC), decided to continue their usage of prophylactics even though during their covid shots and while they waited for the full 14 days after each shot (in order to of course have prophylactic protection while waiting for their recent jabs to create antibodies.).... Then upon the 14 days being done they decided to cease their use of prophylactics since of course, they wre considered fully vaccinated...

 

Well my question is..... I have ready often that when waiting for the vaccines to work, one should avoid certain supplements/drugs as they could hinder the antibody-creating effectiveness of the vaccines... I wonder very much if the prophylactics listed above in your post (including NAC as well because why not), could interfere with the vaccines' spike protein from influencing the body to create antibodies from said vaccine What do you think? I was always fascinated by that honestly.

[DanCG]

Very interesting. However one thing I must ask. You see, I read a lot of people who were using prophylactics (the exact ones above plus NAC), decided to continue their usage of prophylactics even though during their covid shots and while they waited for the full 14 days after each shot (in order to of course have prophylactic protection while waiting for their recent jabs to create antibodies.).... Then upon the 14 days being done they decided to cease their use of prophylactics since of course, they wre considered fully vaccinated...

 

Well my question is..... I have ready often that when waiting for the vaccines to work, one should avoid certain supplements/drugs as they could hinder the antibody-creating effectiveness of the vaccines... I wonder very much if the prophylactics listed above in your post (including NAC as well because why not), could interfere with the vaccines' spike protein from influencing the body to create antibodies from said vaccine What do you think? I was always fascinated by that honestly.

Nobody knows for sure whether supplements like these will blunt the immune response to the vaccine. The cautions against using anti-inflammatory supplements are based on the general principle that inflammation is an important part of initiating the adaptive immune response. Inflammation is the “danger signal” that triggers the protective response to the antigen. We don’t know if any common supplement clamps down inflammation so thoroughly as to significantly interfere with a vaccine response. The terms “inflammation” and “anti-inflammatory” cover a great variety of processes and mechanisms. One would have to look at specific pathways to even begin to accurately predict the effect any supplement will have.

The antigenicity of the spike protein does not depend on its ability to bind to ACE2. On that basis, there is no reason to expect that substances that bind spike would interfere with the immune response to the vaccine.

 

My blood was tested along with a blood donation after I was vaccinated. I have antibodies despite the fact that I did not interrupt my usual regimen of supplements, which includes EGCG, curcumin, and quercetin. Those results are not quantitative. Maybe I would have a higher antibody titer if I had done differently.

 

 

Also, considering the number of breakthrough infections that are happening, I don't think that one should ignore prophylaxis even after vaccination.

Edited by DanCG, 28 July 2021 - 01:12 PM.

[Gal220]

Very interesting. However one thing I must ask. You see, I read a lot of people who were using prophylactics (the exact ones above plus NAC), decided to continue their usage of prophylactics even though during their covid shots and while they waited for the full 14 days after each shot (in order to of course have prophylactic protection while waiting for their recent jabs to create antibodies.).... Then upon the 14 days being done they decided to cease their use of prophylactics since of course, they wre considered fully vaccinated...

 

Well my question is..... I have ready often that when waiting for the vaccines to work, one should avoid certain supplements/drugs as they could hinder the antibody-creating effectiveness of the vaccines... I wonder very much if the prophylactics listed above in your post (including NAC as well because why not), could interfere with the vaccines' spike protein from influencing the body to create antibodies from said vaccine What do you think? I was always fascinated by that honestly.

 

I wouldnt change a thing, more importantly if I got vaccinated, I would add a blood cleanser like neprinol afd or serracor nk to minimize the circulating spike protein and blood clots that result from it.

I think vaccine injury could be dramatically reduced if health agencies were more proactive.

 

I will look for the link, one doctor noted a huge drop in vitamin D from the vaccine, make sure you are supplementing.

Edited by Gal220, 28 July 2021 - 02:33 PM.

[geo12the]

We've had a whole year before the vaccines were available.  What of the millions already under the sod?  What of the billions in the third world who still don't have access to the jabs.  The world looked to America to show them the way.  The American way was...  Remdesivir!  Doesn't work, but what the heck, we made some bling eh?  

 

There is a compound that has been tested and shown to work and given to patients. Why do you never mention it?  It's inexpensive and no one is getting rich from it. And there is lots of data showing that it works.  Below is taken from this site: 

 

Dexamethasone

Many doctors, including those in the United States, have been treating very ill COVID-19 patients with corticosteroids since the pandemic began. It makes biologic sense for those patients who have developed a hyper-immune response (a cytokine storm) to the viral infection. In these cases, it is the immune system's overreaction that is damaging the lungs and other organs, and too often leading to death.

Dexamethasone and other corticosteroids (prednisone, methylprednisolone) are potent anti-inflammatory drugs. They are readily available and inexpensive.

The NIH COVID-19 treatment guidelines recommend the use of dexamethasone in certain people hospitalized with severe COVID-19. The recommendation was based on results from the RECOVERY trial. In the study, more than 6000 patients hospitalized with COVID-19 randomly received either dexamethasone or standard treatment. Patients who required supplemental oxygen or ventilators and who received dexamethasone were less likely to die within 28 days than those who received standard care. Dexamethasone did not have a benefit in patients who did not need respiratory support.

Edited by geo12the, 28 July 2021 - 03:20 PM.

[Dorian Grey]

"The NIH COVID-19 treatment guidelines recommend the use of dexamethasone in certain people hospitalized with severe COVID-19"

 

I'm actually hoping to stay out of the hospital & avoid severe disease.  Got anything I can take at home?  

[DanCG]

There is a compound that has been tested and shown to work and given to patients. Why do you never mention it?  

 

Some key words from your post: “very ill COVID-19 patients” “those patients who have developed a hyper-immune response (a cytokine storm) to the viral infection.” “certain people hospitalized with severe COVID-19” “Patients who required supplemental oxygen or ventilators” “Dexamethasone did not have a benefit in patients who did not need respiratory support.”

 

Corticosteroids are not discussed here much because they are not useable for early, outpatient treatment. They do not prevent disease progression or hospitalization. How can you fail to see this distinction?

 

Why think in terms of EITHER/OR instead of BOTH/AND?

 

The most ardent advocates of ivermectin, the FLCCC, includes both ivermectin and a corticosteroid (among several other agents) in its protocol for treating hospitalized patients.

[geo12the]

Some key words from your post: “very ill COVID-19 patients” “those patients who have developed a hyper-immune response (a cytokine storm) to the viral infection.” “certain people hospitalized with severe COVID-19” “Patients who required supplemental oxygen or ventilators” “Dexamethasone did not have a benefit in patients who did not need respiratory support.”

 

Corticosteroids are not discussed here much because they are not useable for early, outpatient treatment. They do not prevent disease progression or hospitalization. How can you fail to see this distinction?

 

Why think in terms of EITHER/OR instead of BOTH/AND?

 

The most ardent advocates of ivermectin, the FLCCC, includes both ivermectin and a corticosteroid (among several other agents) in its protocol for treating hospitalized patients.

 

 

"The NIH COVID-19 treatment guidelines recommend the use of dexamethasone in certain people hospitalized with severe COVID-19"

 

I'm actually hoping to stay out of the hospital & avoid severe disease.  Got anything I can take at home?  

 

 

The information in the link I posted is outdated.  It can and is being used early. They discussed this in the latest TWIV (This week in Virology) that I listened to on my way to work this morning. Starts at about 41:30

 

https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-785/

 

They said new data suggests that early treatment with Dexamethasone in people whose pulse oximeter readings drop bellow 94 (normal is between 95-100) can prevent the disease from progressing and can keep them out of the hospital. 

Edited by geo12the, 28 July 2021 - 07:00 PM.

[Advocatus Diaboli]

Where is a link to the "new data"? I didn't see one in the above video.   

 

Covid-19 Treatment Guidelines, National Institutes of Health July 8, 2021

 

Therapeutic Management of Hospitalized Adults With COVID-19  

 

"Patients Who Do Not Require Supplemental Oxygen Recommendations

• The COVID-19 Treatment Guidelines Panel (the Panel) recommends against the use of dexamethasone (AIIa) or other corticosteroids (AIII) for the treatment of COVID-19. Patients who are receiving dexamethasone or another corticosteroid for other indications should continue therapy for their underlying conditions as directed by their health care provider."

Sounds as if people with COVID-19, but not hospitalized, shouldn't get dexamethasone?

Edited by Advocatus Diaboli, 28 July 2021 - 07:29 PM.

[geo12the]

Where is a link to the "new data"? I didn't see one in the above video. 

 

Covid-19 Treatment Guidelines, National Institutes of Health July 8, 2021

 

Therapeutic Management of Hospitalized Adults With COVID-19  

 

"Patients Who Do Not Require Supplemental Oxygen Recommendations

• The COVID-19 Treatment Guidelines Panel (the Panel) recommends against the use of dexamethasone (AIIa) or other corticosteroids (AIII) for the treatment of COVID-19. Patients who are receiving dexamethasone or another corticosteroid for other indications should continue therapy for their underlying conditions as directed by their health care provider."

Sounds as if people with COVID-19, but not hospitalized, shouldn't get dexamethasone?

They said in the Podcast that if oxygen levels start to drop in people who are not hospitalized it can keep them from having to be hospitalized. It may be this has not been published yet. 

[Qowpel]

EGCG and curcumin should be taken together, both show a high binding affinity to the virus.

 

Ive been doing EGCG/Curcumin in the morning, Quercetin/Bromelain(sold together, helps Quercetin) in the afternoon for prevention, along with a normal vitamin regimen(should includes vitamin Bs, C, D, zinc, and selenium).  

What exactly do you mean by binding affinity by the way? Like they stick to active covid intruders rather than said covid attaching and binding to our cells?

[Qowpel]

I wouldnt change a thing, more importantly if I got vaccinated, I would add a blood cleanser like neprinol afd or serracor nk to minimize the circulating spike protein and blood clots that result from it.

I think vaccine injury could be dramatically reduced if health agencies were more proactive.

 

I will look for the link, one doctor noted a huge drop in vitamin D from the vaccine, make sure you are supplementing.

I ordered some serracor nk. My question is. Since the vaccine I am getting is the J&J, which of course creates the spike protein for your body to react against to then make antibodies, wouldn't it be silly to prematurely take serracor within the first 14 days after the jab, since that would break down the very spike protein that is temporarily (14 days) needed to create antibodies? Rather shouldnt I be taking serracor AFTER my 14 days following the jab since I will no longer need the spike-reactant-antibodies at the 14 day mark?

[Gal220]

I ordered some serracor nk. My question is. Since the vaccine I am getting is the J&J, which of course creates the spike protein for your body to react against to then make antibodies, wouldn't it be silly to prematurely take serracor within the first 14 days after the jab, since that would break down the very spike protein that is temporarily (14 days) needed to create antibodies? Rather shouldnt I be taking serracor AFTER my 14 days following the jab since I will no longer need the spike-reactant-antibodies at the 14 day mark?

Spike protein isnt suppose to be in your blood, should be in your deltoid.  Serracor or Neprinol would help digest what shouldnt be in the blood.    If you can hold out, I would wait for novavax.

[DanCG]

I ordered some serracor nk. My question is. Since the vaccine I am getting is the J&J, which of course creates the spike protein for your body to react against to then make antibodies, wouldn't it be silly to prematurely take serracor within the first 14 days after the jab, since that would break down the very spike protein that is temporarily (14 days) needed to create antibodies? Rather shouldnt I be taking serracor AFTER my 14 days following the jab since I will no longer need the spike-reactant-antibodies at the 14 day mark?

 

To follow up on Gal20’s point. Spike protein does not need to be in the blood to work as a vaccine. The vaccines were supposed to express the protein locally near the injection for a short period of time. Local dendritic cells ingest the protein and carry it to lymph nodes and activate lymphocytes there. The fact that spike proteins from the existing vaccines end up in the blood and throughout the body was a surprise and a mistake. The Novavax should not have this problem because it is just the protein, not RNA or DNA for continued synthesis in the body.

I don’t know if Serracor or Neprinol really do digest spike protein in the blood, but if they do, it would not interfere with the vaccination, but it might help minimize the damage.

[DanCG]

They said in the Podcast that if oxygen levels start to drop in people who are not hospitalized it can keep them from having to be hospitalized. It may be this has not been published yet. 

Hmm. Do you suppose that the fact that this has not been published is related to why nobody here has mentioned it before?

 

Now though! Meta-analyses of hundreds of publications can be dismissed out of hand, but one rumor from one podcast changes everything!

[geo12the]

Hmm. Do you suppose that the fact that this has not been published is related to why nobody here has mentioned it before?

 

Now though! Meta-analyses of hundreds of publications can be dismissed out of hand, but one rumor from one podcast changes everything!

 

Look I was just stating what I heard on the TWIV podcast which is a valuable source of information. I am not saying it's gospel. This isn't a contest between team Ivermectin and team steroids like people here try to make everything out to be. I am just trying to get at the truth and how I get there may not be perfect.  We will see what comes out. One point missed out is that while the CDC recommendations are for steroids once people are in bad shape, IF you gave it to them sooner, maybe they would not be in as bad a shape? 

[DanCG]

This isn't a contest between team Ivermectin and team steroids like people here try to make everything out to be. 

 

Hmm,..something about a pot and kettle, but anyway I agree fully. If they have found that some patients can benefit from dexamethasone administered earlier than previously thought, so much the better! Even so, the dex be would a complement to other therapies, not an alternative.

[Dorian Grey]

Hmm,..something about a pot and kettle, but anyway I agree fully. If they have found that some patients can benefit from dexamethasone administered earlier than previously thought, so much the better! Even so, the dex be would a complement to other therapies, not an alternative.

 

Agree...  Indeed, the problem with most RCTs is they almost never are done with combination therapies.  The WHO spent millions of Gates/Wellcome dollars testing HCQ and HCQ alone on a population of patients who most likely had critical zinc deficiencies.  Hypertension & heart disease the most dangerous COVID comorbidities, and the drugs these patients typically are on (ACEi, ARBs & diuretics) ALL known to deplete zinc.  

 

Dr McCullough & Dr Kory have both pointed out critical illness is almost never treated with a single mono-therapy approach, but invariably multiple complimentary agents are used.  

 

When you're spending millions on an RCT to see if HCQ is an effective therapeutic, you don't add steroids, anticoagulants and other agents into the mix, as you'd get crucified in peer review.  "How do you know it was HCQ & not the steroid or anticoagulant"?  This is a primary shortcoming of RCT, the other being, they often are slow to get patients enrolled and started on treatment.  

 

A meta-analysis of real world studies, utilizing different complementary therapeutics along with the primary agent is more likely to lead you to what is really working.  

[Gal220]

What exactly do you mean by binding affinity by the way? Like they stick to active covid intruders rather than said covid attaching and binding to our cells?

Basically - LINK1, LINK2   

Look at page 7 on the download of link2 

 

1 EGCG -6.99 (7.57) -4.90 (255.95) -7.57 (2.84) -7.26 (4.75)

2 Curcumin -6.04 (37.57) -4.73 (340.89) -5.50 (92.90) -5.05 (197.96)

3 Apigenin -5.96 (43.03) -3.71 (1.9x10-5) -5.13 (1.74x10-5) -5.98 (4.1x10-5)

4 Beta Glucan -5.96 (42.79) -4.16 (889.95) -5.06 (195.39) -3.20 (4.4x10-5)

5 Myricetin -5.38 (114.10) -3.70 (1.96x10-5) -5.74 (62.01) -6.14 (31.32)

6 Quercetin -5.29 (132.27) -3.68 (2.02x10-5) -5.73 (63.52) -6.14 (31.32)

 

We, thus, found EGCG, curcumin, myricetin, genistein, myricetin, beta-glucan, quercetin and diadzein as recommended compounds for the treatment of COVID–19 (figure 3). Finally, as a result of our study, we have discovered EGCG as potent SARS-CoV–2 inhibitor which might be a drug candidate

[DanCG]

For a walk down the unbeaten path, check out US Patent No. 10959969. “Methods of treating SARS Cov-2 virus with protocatechuic acid”.

I don’t know what to think about it, but it is in line with the subject matter of this forum. I don’t think protocatechuic acid has been mentioned here before. It is a major metabolite of antioxidant polyphenols found in green tea.

 

[Gal220]

Malone posted an Italian protocol 

[Encoded222]

I don't know if it has been posted here already, but Niacin seems to be very promising as a prophylactic supplement and for accute treatment.

 

Dmitry Kats has done some interesting research on it. twitter.com/nia3in

In his study the median recovery time was 1,3 days, compared to more than 10 days for the control group.

 

https://twitter.com/...5011998720?s=20

https://twitter.com/...1998720/photo/3

 

He also developed a protocol, with other beneficial supplements. It's his pinned post.

 

According to him, Covid creates a NAD+ deficiency and Niacin resolves the issue because it's a NAD+ precursor.

Edited by Encoded222, 31 July 2021 - 05:41 PM.

[Heisok]

There is a NAD+ thread. Single patient in quoted information.

 

 

Case study on NMN for Covid-19.

 

NMN shows great promise in case studies of humans with COVID-19

 

 

 

Case study here:

 

Dramatic Cytokine Storm Reversal with an Over the Counter NMN Cocktail⁽¹

 

 

This case study (1) published April 20, 2020 by Dr. Robert Huizenga reports a remarkable clinical turnaround against COVID-19 upon providing an oral nicotinamide mononucleotide (NMN) cocktail to a COVID-19 positive patient who presented with such gravely elevated inflammation levels that a fatal outcome seemed eminent.

 

 

https://www.longecit...nd-coronavirus/

[Gal220]

This country analysis could be flawed, but it aligns with the binding tests mentioned above. - LINK

 

You can look at the table plots and see if you find it convincing.

 

Unfortunately, this is likely to be all the testing we see on this extract.

 

I stand corrected, trial for Previfenon® (a new oral EGCG formulation)  - link1, link2

 

Assuming this got off the ground, but hopefully they were somewhat sure of themselves before doing the trial. 

 

Anyone know why the trial length might be so long? 

Edited by Gal220, 01 August 2021 - 12:43 AM.

[Dorian Grey]

BINGO!  Bret & Heather Save the World!  

 

https://odysee.com/@...to-extinction:c

 

COVID prophylaxis, treatments and regulatory capture

[Qowpel]

I don't know if it has been posted here already, but Niacin seems to be very promising as a prophylactic supplement and for accute treatment.

 

Dmitry Kats has done some interesting research on it. twitter.com/nia3in

In his study the median recovery time was 1,3 days, compared to more than 10 days for the control group.

 

https://twitter.com/...5011998720?s=20

https://twitter.com/...1998720/photo/3

 

He also developed a protocol, with other beneficial supplements. It's his pinned post.

 

According to him, Covid creates a NAD+ deficiency and Niacin resolves the issue because it's a NAD+ precursor.

WHich type of Niacin? Inositol? Nicotinic acid? Niacinamide?

[Qowpel]

Can nasal sprays reduce viral load? If so what types, and must we make our own formulations

[Mind]

Newest MATH+ protocol replaces HCQ with Quercetin. 

[Heisok]

That article is not accurate. HCQ was not being recommended for their Math+ protocol. I would like to see a copy of their protocol, even in the last 12 months, which shows it was. As far as their MASK+ ptotocol, Quercetin has been recommended for a long time. Just to be careful, I reviewed their pdf protocol file from 12/2020.

 

I do not see the benefit of attaching the pdf file from my reference downloads, but if needed, I will.

 

 

Edited by Heisok, 01 August 2021 - 02:44 PM.

[Heisok]

I have the file due to having to take a flight to Portland in December for what turned out to be a 10 day family emergency. Used the Math+ protocol. Here is the pdf file from

 

12/2020  FLCCC-Protocols-–-A-Guide-to-the-Management-of-COVID-19.pdf   2.29MB   6 downloads

Edited by Heisok, 01 August 2021 - 04:18 PM.