3083 replies to this topic

[Dorian Grey]

DO we know yet if lysine is useful as a prohylactic. there is this guy Bo on youtube who reported many of the people he prescribed his Lysine protocol have had very fast recoveries..

 

I've heard of lysine being anti-viral.  People take it for herpes outbreaks.  Haven't really seen a lot on this for coronavirus, but something to check out.  

[bladedmind]

Following up on dry eyes, another simple prophylactic.   Keep the humidity up.   I have partially managed reflux.    During dry winter months my lungs hurt in the morning, but don’t if I use a humidifier.  During humid summer months my lungs don’t hurt in the morning.

Relative Humidity Predicts Day-to-Day Variations in COVID-19 Cases in the City of Buenos Aires

 

...we here present a case study of the first wave of the outbreak in the city of Buenos Aires, which had a slow evolution of the caseload extending along most of 2020. We found that humidity plays a prominent role in modulating the variation of COVID-19 positive cases through a negative-slope linear relationship, with an optimal lag of 9 days between the meteorological observation and the positive case report. This relationship is specific to winter months, when relative humidity predicts up to half of the variance in positive case count. Our results provide a tool to anticipate possible local surges in COVID-19 cases after events of low humidity. More generally, they add to accumulating evidence pointing to dry air as a facilitator of COVID-19 transmission.

 

[bladedmind]

Iota-Carrageenan nasal spray prophylaxis trial results in preprint
Note – this is Betadine brand nasal spray, available at Amazon or Ebay.  It contains food-grade carrageenan, not iodine.  I use it for plane flights, medical office visits, unavoidable close contact with strangers.

 

Efficacy of a nasal spray containing Iota-Carrageenan in the prophylaxis of COVID-19 in hospital personnel dedicated to patients care with COVID-19 disease A pragmatic multicenter, randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial (CARR-COV-02)

 

Findings A total of 394 individuals were randomly assigned to receive I-C or placebo. Both treatment groups had similar baseline characteristics.
The incidence of COVID19 was significantly lower in the I-C group compared to placebo (1·0% vs 5·0%) (Odds Ratio 0·19 (95% confidence interval 0·05 to 0·77; p= 0·03). Workday loss in placebo group compared to I-Cc were 1.6% days / person (95% ci, 1.0 to 2.2); p <0.0001
There were no differences in the incidence of adverse events across the two groups (17·3% in the I-C group and 15·2% in the placebo group, p= 0·5).
Interpretation I-C showed significant efficacy in preventing SARS-Cov-2 infection in hospital personnel dedicated to care patients with COVID-19 disease.

 

 

[Gal220]

Before it is closed, there is a partial summary below which might be useful for reference (google translate may or may not be needed):

 

https://forums.huare...topicid=2546619

 

Summary of Using Supplements for Mild COVID-19 Cases

Really good post

 

● Increase resistance to illness: sleep, drink water, strengthen nutrition, bask in the noon sun, moderate (don’t strenuous) exercise ( moderate (but not strenuous) exercise) and so on.

● try to prevent the virus into the body (Try to prevent the virus from entering the body): holding distance (keep distance), is not in contact (no contact), a mask (mask), sterilization (disinfect), hand washing (wash hands) and the like .

● Improve immunity: Vitamin C (Vitamin C), Vitamin D (Vitamin D), Garlic, Ginger, Protein, Lactoferrin, Probiotics , Zinc, Selenium, Magnesium, Vitamin B complex, NMN (Nicotinamide Mononucleotide), Ashwagandha ), Oregano oil, Andrographis, Melatonin, non-extract Echinacea, Astragalus, Reishi, Cordyceps, Cordyceps Extract), Elderberry (elderberry) and so on.

● Raise Vitamin D level if it is low if it is low: Bask in the noon sun, Vitamin D

● Support sleep if its quality is low: Melatonin (melatonin), Magnesium (magnesium), Ashwagandha (ashwagandha (also known as Indian ginseng)), NAC (N-Acetyl Cysteine) (N-acetylcysteine)), Chinese Skullcap

● Reduce some viruses in the mouth, nose and throat: saline nasal irrigation and mouth rinse, Oregano oil, Zinc lozenges )

● Reduce some virus binding: Ashwagandha (ashwagandha (also known as Indian ginseng)), Hesperidin (hesperidin), Chinese Skullcap (Chinese skullcap), Andrographis (andrographis), various teas, EGCG ( Main components of tea polyphenols), Quercetin, Luteolin, Melatonin, Olive Leaf extract, Curcumin, Rosemary extract Extract), Milk Thistle (Milk Thistle), Resveratrol (Resveratrol), Lutein (Lutein), Ginger (Ginger), Garlic (Garlic), Famotidine (Non-health supplement), Ivermectin (Ivermectin (non-health product))

→ ○ S Protein: Ashwagandha, Ursolic acid, Hesperidin, Curcumin, Milk Thistle, Ivermectin

→ ○ Furin: Ashwagandha, Apigenin, Ursolic acid, Hesperidin, Oleanolic acid, Rosemary extract, Curcumin, Andrographis, Luteolin, Chinese Skullcap

→ ○ ACE2: Ashwagandha, Ursolic acid (Ursolic acid), Oleanolic acid (Oleanolic acid), Quercetin, Kaempferol (Kaempferol), Hesperidin, Apigenin (Apigenin), Ivermectin

→ ○ Mpro/3CLpro: Ashwagandha, Curcumin, Apigenin (apigenin), Ursolic acid (ursolic acid), Kaempferol (kaempferol), Luteolin, Quercetin, Andrographis, Hesperidin, Chinese Skullcap, various teas, Rosemary extract, Milk Thistle , Melatonin, Olive Leaf extract, EGCG, Lutein, Oleanolic acid (Oleanolic acid), Ginger, Garlic, Famotidine, Ivermectin

→ ○ GRP78: EGCG

→ ○ CD147: Resveratrol, Chinese Skullcap, EGCG

→ ○ AGTR2 and TMPRSS2: Andrographis

● Reduce some virus replication: Zinc (zinc) + [Quercetin (quercetin), EGCG (the main component of tea polyphenols), Luteolin (luteolin)], Milk Thistle (milk thistle), Andrographis (Andrographis paniculata), Chinese Skullcap (Chinese skullcap), Glutathione (glutathione, see below), Hesperidin (hesperidin), EGCG (the main component of tea polyphenols), Rosemary extract (rosemary extract), Ivermectin (Ivermectin (non-health products))

→ ○ RdRp/NSP12: Zinc + [Quercetin, EGCG, Luteolin], Milk Thistle, Andrographis, Chinese Skullcap, Ivermectin

→ ○ PLpro: Glutathione, Hesperidin, Milk Thistle, Chinese Skullcap, EGCG, Rosemary extract, Ivermectin

● Support testosterone level if it is low if it is low: sleep, moderate exercise, Vitamin D, Zinc, Magnesium

● Support glutathione production: sleep, moderate exercise, NAC (N-Acetyl Cysteine ​​(N-acetylcysteine)), Vitamin C (Vitamin C), Alpha -lipoic acid, Vitamin B complex, Selenium, Vitamin E, Whey Protein, Green Tea, Rosemary extract ), Milk Thistle, Curcumin, Fish oil (Omega 3)

● Inhibit bradykinin: Bromelain, polyphenols

● Inhibit some bradykinin receptors (Inhibit bradykinin receptors): Melatonin (melatonin)

● Support ACE2 (Support ACE2): Vitamin D, Curcumin, Resveratrol, Alpha-lipoic acid, Rosemary extract, Panax notoginseng (three seven)

● Inhibit some NLRP3 (Inhibit NLPR3): Melatonin (melatonin), Resveratrol (resveratrol), Luteolin (luteolin), Curcumin (curcumin), Andrographis (andrographis), Quercetin (quercetin), EGCG (Main component of tea polyphenols), Oregano oil (oregano oil)

● Thin the blood: drink water, Ginger, Garlic, Vitamin E, Fish oil (Omega 3), Curcumin, Bromelain, Selenium, NAC (N-Acetyl Cysteine), Nattokinase, Melatonin

● Supplement a little potassium if its level is low: Potassium (Potassium)

● Reduce the possibility of cytokine storm:

→ ○ Andrographis, Chinese Skullcap, Melatonin, Fish oil (Omega 3), Garlic, Ginger, Milk Thistle, Oregano oil, Echinacea extract, Olive Leaf extract, NMN (Nicotinamide Mononucleotide), Hesperidin, Rosemary extract Rosemary extract), Ashwagandha (ashwagandha (also known as Indian ginseng)), Nattokinase, Bromelain, Ivermectin (non-health supplement)

→ ○ Many anti-oxidants with anti-inflammatory properties: Vitamin C (Vitamin C), Vitamin E (Vitamin E), Quercetin (Quercetin), EGCG (Tea polyphenols Ingredients), Curcumin (curcumin), Resveratrol (resveratrol), Pycnogenol, Astaxanthin (astaxanthin), Alpha-lipoic acid (lipoic acid), CoQ10 (coenzyme Q10), Lutein (leaf yellow) Vegetarian), Zeaxanthin, Luteolin, Rutin, Lycopene, Bilberry extract, etc.

→ ○ At this stage do not use: non-extract Echinacea (Echinacea non-extract), Astragalus (Astragalus), Reishi (Ganoderma lucidum), Cordyceps (Cultivated Cordyceps mycelium extract), Elderberry (Elderberry) Wood fruit), Grape Seed extract

● Do not take antitussives with Dextromethorphan (non-health food) ingredients. Do not use cough suppressants with Dextromethorphan as the ingredient.

[Gal220]

I've heard of lysine being anti-viral.  People take it for herpes outbreaks.  Haven't really seen a lot on this for coronavirus, but something to check out.  

 

"What if L-Lysine has the same effect in Coronaviruses? I am pleased to see that Bill Sardi recently published that Bio-Virus Research Inc., of Reno, Nevada, has successfully treated 30 frontline doctors and nurses and 1,000-plus patients with L-Lysine to prevent and even abolish COVID-19 coronavirus. This information is preliminary, but I want to share it with Vitamin Connection readers because it just may save some lives."

 

"Sardi: In this instance we are relying on an observational report of lysine use in the Dominican Republic. The reporter is Bo Karlicki, who is working in tandem with researchers at Bio-Virus Research, Inc., in Nevada, founded by Alex Chaihorsky. Karlicki delivers an online narrative video report and all four of Bio-Virus’ investigators have teamed up to write a non-peer reviewed report published at ResearchGate.net of observational experience with lysine and COVID-19 (6). I interviewed Dr. Chaihorsky personally."

https://wholefoodsma...ith-bill-sardi/

https://www.research..._for_SARS-CoV-2

 

 

Like all the extracts, we should know, but the NIH never looked at them and dropped therapeutics altogether once they had the vax 

[pamojja]

Before it is closed, there is a partial summary below which might be useful for reference (google translate may or may not be needed):

 

https://forums.huare...topicid=2546619

 

Summary of Using Supplements for Mild COVID-19 Cases

 

Doesn't contain any references. Selfhacked looked at some of them found here:

 

 

We may earn a small commission if you buy something through a link on this page.

A

• Agaricus Blazei & COVID-19
• Ashwagandha and Coronavirus
• Astralagus and Coronavirus

B

• Bee Pollen & Coronavirus
• Blood Type & Coronavirus

C

• Chaga and Coronavirus
• Colostrum & COVID-19
• Copper and Coronavirus
• Cordyceps & Coronavirus

E

• Echinacea & Coronavirus

G

• Garlic & COVID-19
• Ginger & Coronavirus
• Ginseng and Coronavirus

H

• Honey and coronavirus

I

• Iron and Coronavirus

L

• Lab Tests &amp; COVID-19
• Lactoferrin & COVID-19
• Licorice and Coronavirus

M

• Maitake & Coronavirus
• Marshmallow & COVID-19
• Monolaurin & COVID-19

N

• NAC & Coronavirus

O

• Omega 3 and Coronavirus
• Oregano & Coronavirus

P

• Propolis & COVID-19

R

• Reishi & COVID-19
• Resveratrol & Coronavirus

S

• Schisandra and Coronavirus
• Selenium & Coronavirus
• Shiitake mushrooms & Coronavirus
• Skullcap and Coronavirus

V

• Vitamin B & Coronavirus
• Vitamin C & Coronavirus
• Vitamin D & Coronavirus
• Vitamin E & Coronavirus

Z

• Zinc and Coronavirus

 

edit: selfhacked seems to limit how many free articles one can view in a month to not much more than 3. Therefore intially limit to those articles one would like to see some references.

Edited by pamojja, 20 August 2021 - 08:36 AM.

[bladedmind]

In silico and in vitro evidence shows Azelastine allergy nasal spray may suppress Covid-19.

 

 

The results showed that azelastine significantly reduced cytopathic effect and inhibited SARS-CoV-2 infection of Vero E6 cells both in preventive and treatment settings. They also tested a 5-fold dilution of azelastine in a commercially available nasal spray. They found that it was very potent in inhibiting the propagation of the SARS-CoV-2 virus in infected human nasal tissue. The team concluded that the antihistamine azelastine might be considered for use in topical prevention or treatment of SARS-CoV-2 nasal colonization.

 

 

I use this as needed for inhalant allergies and will use it more zealously now.  It’s now Rx but easy to get, and will soon be OTC.  

[bhangchai]

is it possible to reverse previous vaccinations by taking them twice or something? I wish I never had any vaccines who knows if it affected me negatively while I was a child or not.

 

You might consider infecting yourself with measles as this apparently reverses immunity gained from pervious immunity and vaccination.  

Although it would be extremely foolish...  Be careful what you wish for.

https://news.harvard...-immune-memory/

[xEva]

Doesn't contain any references. Selfhacked looked at some of them found here:

 

 

edit: selfhacked seems to limit how many free articles one can view in a month to not much more than 3. Therefore intially limit to those articles one would like to see some references.

 

I clicked on Reishi and Coronavirus and saw the image, which is not even close. The depicted mushroom is in a different order. Such things always make me doubt the rest of the info.

[pamojja]

I clicked on Reishi and Coronavirus and saw the image, which is not even close. The depicted mushroom is in a different order. Such things always make me doubt the rest of the info.

 

You are right to doubt all sources, not only but especially those who sell health information. However selfhacked articles does summarize what they found in published studies (never even gave a thought about their images) - but its still up to oneself to click and check the references themself, to see how they read the studies is actually supported.

[lancebr]

Just heard about this variant called the lambda variant that seems to have immune evasion capabilities:

 

 

https://www.news-med...-mutations.aspx

 

https://www.biorxiv.....08.14.456353v1

 

https://www.biorxiv.....07.28.454085v1

 

https://pix11.com/ne...ctor-warns/amp/

 

 

[Gal220]

Hesperidin study, but just in vitro.  Like EGCG, it is an AMPK driver so worth looking at in terms of longevity also.  Absorption is an issue, but maybe this product has solved it.

 

"While Hesperidin in its original form is not very water soluble, Hesperidin Methyl Chalcone is highly water soluble for greater absorption in the gastrointestinal tract."

 

Life extension also has an AMPK product with hesperidin, but doesnt appear they do anything to aid absorption

 

 

[Daniel Cooper]

Israel observational study of people’s everyday drugs and Covid19 outcome. 

 

 

 

Just a reminder, simple things like handwashing, saline nasal irrigation, and OTC cetylpyridinium mouthwash gargles probably help prevent Covid19.   I speculate that dry eyes, that some of us suffer from, are an entry opportunity for Covid19.   My dry eyes have improved somewhat with ivermectin because it kills the demodex beasts clogging up eyellid glands and eyelash follicles.

 

On the artificial tears - I'll add another speculation to the mix. It may not be the dry eyes per se that are the issue. Most artificial tears have preservatives and having those in your eyes *might* be killing the virus.

 

Pure speculation on my part though.

[geo12the]

On the artificial tears - I'll add another speculation to the mix. It may not be the dry eyes per se that are the issue. Most artificial tears have preservatives and having those in your eyes *might* be killing the virus.

 

Pure speculation on my part though.

 

Not sure if it's relevant but some eye drops for dry eyes also contain trehalose, a compound that promotes autophagy and has studies suggesting health benefits.

[Daniel Cooper]

It's clear to me that antiviral therapies and not vaccines will ultimately be the way we learn to deal with this virus, and supplements and re-use of existing drugs should be a part of that strategy.

 

In the history of mankind, to my knowledge we've only driven one virus to extinction in the wild - Smallpox.

 

Smallpox is a DNA virus that has a low mutation rate and more or less requires direct contact to spread.  The first smallpox vaccine (i.e. cowpox inoculation) was developed in 1796 in the West (earlier in Asia) and the virus was finally declared eradicated in the wild in 1980. That's 184 years.

 

Covid-19 in some form is here to stay. 

 

Now the good news is that the historical tendency is for these type viruses to become less lethal as time moves forward. At least in prior pandemics where essentially nothing was done (because nothing could be done). Whether or not widespread vaccination impairs that natural tendency remains to be seen. As someone that got the vaccination I certainly hope not.

 

In the interim, we need anti-viral agents to lower the mortality and complications rate.

 

It's my belief that ultimately we'll all get covid-19 at some point. Hopefully there will be an anti-viral there to lessen the impact, or if your vaccine doesn't keep you from getting it at all it will at least reduce the severity. And if you can delay getting it long enough maybe you'll get a less lethal variant. Otherwise, if you're not in a high risk group you'll just have to be comforted in the knowledge that 99+ percent of you will survive the encounter.

 

I really wish our political and healthcare leaders would level with the public about this so that we could make better informed decisions. 

[Daniel Cooper]

Not sure if it's relevant but some eye drops for dry eyes also contain trehalose, a compound that promotes autophagy and has studies suggesting health benefits.

 
Yep. It's already been shown to have anti-viral activity against HIV - Trehalose Inhibits Human Immunodeficiency Virus Type 1 Infection in Primary Human Macrophages and CD4+ T Lymphocytes through Two Distinct Mechanisms

 

Very interesting compound with a number of potential health applications (atherosclerosis, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, .... Covid?)

 

I just wish I could walk into a clinic and get an infusion of the stuff. But, the FDA thinks otherwise.

 

 

[Mind]

 

 

It's my belief that ultimately we'll all get covid-19 at some point

 

Not a belief. A fact. Just like everyone gets a cold or flu dozens of times through their lives (many times caused by coronaviruses), everyone will get a variant at some point. Best to have a full suite of techniques to help people stay healthy and recover, instead of just one (the current experimental gene therapies). Having just one approach/therapy is dumb. Really dumb.

 

The fact that so many "virologists", "health" officials, doctors, and various leaders think they can stop COVID from existing just highlights their ignorance about respiratory viruses and viruses in general. With every breath we take we inhale viruses from the day we are born until the day we die. Trying to literally sterilize the earth in order to "stop" this particular coronavirus is counter-productive, bizarre, dangerous, and self-defeating.

[DanCG]

 

 

It's my belief that ultimately we'll all get covid-19 at some point.

 

And now might be the best time to do it. Here is what I have been thinking lately, subject to change. Put here to stimulate discussion:

 

Dr. Campbell lays out the rationale why natural immunity is more desirable than vaccine immunity. The main points are:

 

 

We can already see that the protection provided by the vaccines will not stop the pandemic, as as escape variants arise faster than we can make new vaccines.

 

Natural immunity is less prone to immune escape, because the immune response is against the whole virus, not just one viral protein. The combination of natural immunity plus vaccine may give the best protection of all.

 

Survivors of previous infection and vaccinated people (SO FAR) are getting mild disease with the newer variants.

 

So, the silver lining in the latest wave, is that more people will develop natural immunity and they will be most likely to successfully fight off future variants.

 

He did not recommend that we all go out bug chasing, but it does seem that if you are vaccinated, or if you are young and never were at high risk anyway, maybe getting infected right now might not be such a terrible thing.

 

 

I would add that this situation may not last. As more people get vaccinated, escape variants have a selective advantage. Antibody dependent enhancement is already beginning.

 

Why is this on topic for this forum? Because each of us has to think about what our own strategy will be. I am for spreading the word about anything that may work for prophylaxis to my older friends, whereas for myself, I may not worry so much about prevention, and focus on what I will do when (not if) I get infected. Like finding a doctor willing to do off-label prescribing.

[lancebr]

Honey and Nigella sativa against COVID-19 in Pakistan (HNS-COVID-PK): A multi-center placebo-controlled randomized clinical trial

 

https://www.medrxiv....20217364v4.full

Edited by lancebr, 24 August 2021 - 07:32 AM.

[pamojja]

Honey and Nigella sativa against COVID-19 in Pakistan (HNS-COVID-PK): A multi-center placebo-controlled randomized clinical trial

 

Excluded hypertensive and diabetics, therefore not applicable to most patients. Though at least understandably excluding diabetics:

 

PROCEDURE

The HNS group received honey (1 gm) plus encapsulated Nigella sativa seeds (80 mg) per kg body weight orally in 2-3 divided doses daily for up-to 13 days while the control group received placebo (empty capsules).

 

For a 70kg human 70g of honey along with 5.6g black seed in capsules in 2-3 doses? Maybe 20-30 capsules per dose? Compared to as many but empty capsules? - How can that be considered a placebo, so obviously being the placebo?

 

At least it shows the placebo effect is up and working well against covid.

Edited by pamojja, 24 August 2021 - 09:43 AM.

[CarlSagan]

high dose Thiamine as an easily accessible help for the cytokine storm & for the thrombosis issues too

 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC7960760/
Thiamine-treated DC patients showed significant lowering in IL-17 and increase in the IL-22 levels. In humans, a range of 79–474 mg daily of thiamine was estimated to be effective and safe as an intervention for the COVID-19 cytokine storm. A literature review showed that several neurological symptoms of COVID-19 (∼45.5% of the severe cases) occur in other viral infections and neuroinflammatory states that may also respond to thiamine treatment. Thiamine, a very safe drug even at very high doses, could be repurposed for treating the Th17 mediated IL-17 immune storm, and the subsequent neurological symptoms observed in COVID-19. Further studies using thiamine as an intervention/prevention strategy in COVID-19 patients could identify its precise anti-inflammatory role.

 

 

extra rat study https://www.ncbi.nlm...es/PMC5102562/ showing high dose Thiamine reduced inflammation better than an NSAID, and reduced serum levels of cytokine. 
Effective dose of vitamin B1(150 mg/kg) reduced inflammatory symptoms and serum levels of TNF-α and IL-1β compare to indomethacin during the chronic phase of inflammation.

 

 

https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/18762821/ mice study showing acute & 7 day cumulative anti inflammatory & pain reducing effect of high dose thiamine

 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC8242279/

A total of 738 critically ill patients with COVID-19 admitted to ICUs at the two governmental hospitals were included in the study.  The median (Q1, Q3) dose of thiamine given per day was 100 mg (50, 200) with a median duration of seven days. The majority of patients received thiamine by intravenous administration (57%).   Among 166 patients matched using the propensity score method, 83 had received thiamine as adjunctive therapy. There was significant association between thiamine use with in-hospital mortality (OR = 0.39; 95% CI 0.19–0.78; P value = 0.008) as well as the 30-day mortality (OR = 0.37; 95% CI 0.18–0.78; P value = 0.009).

 

Moreover, patients who received thiamine as an adjunctive therapy were less likely to have thrombosis during ICU stay.   Conclusion Thiamine use as adjunctive therapy may have potential survival benefits in critically ill patients with COVID-19. Additionally, it was associated with a lower incidence of thrombosis. Further interventional studies are required to confirm these findings.

Edited by CarlSagan, 24 August 2021 - 11:12 AM.

[Gal220]

Natural immunity is less prone to immune escape, because the immune response is against the whole virus, not just one viral protein. The combination of natural immunity plus vaccine may give the best protection of all.

 

I saw a recent interview with an Australian reporter and Harvard guy, he was trying to push N95 masks + vaccine since Delta has shown a high viral load with vaccine.  My understanding was the vaccine was shown early on not to stop transmission, just severity, interesting how people act surprised when early predictions are confirmed.

 

Masking requires too much discipline to work, nasal swabs/rinsing and gargling H202(already done by dentist) seems the way to wipe it out, something we could possibly get done in all parts of the world.  

 

Anti-virals bind to virus and dont require our immunity to engage, which is important with Delta as it seems to replicate fast. This article has a table of the best anti-virals out of 20 docking test.  Its not complete, licorice and black cumin should be on here, but its a good start for the extract side of things LINK

[Daniel Cooper]

It's interesting to me how many of those compounds in your link I was already taking BC (Before Covid) for other reasons.  

 

The first three were already on my supplement menu (EGCG, Curcumin, Apigenin).  I did add Quercetin and Zinc. Was already taking ALA and Allicin as well.

[caliban]

moderation note:
   as announced, the topic is now closed. many thanks to all contributors!