3083 replies to this topic

[Daniel Cooper]

Do you have a link please?

 
Posted earlier in the thread -
 
Existing drugs may offer a first-line treatment for coronavirus outbreak
 
I don't think there are references for the studies for each drug in that article, but if you'll search for example "nitazoxanide MERS" (since that chart shows activity against MERS) you'll find the papers of relevance.
 
The chart is really the most important part of that article.  It's why I started researching Chloroquine three weeks ago. 
 
ETA: This is the source article for that article:  Discovery and development of safe-in-man broadspectrum antiviral agents

PDF form here:  Discovery and development of safe-in-man broadspectrum antiviral agents (PDF) Most of the sources should be there.

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 20 March 2020 - 05:48 PM.

[bladedmind]

For those freelancing their own treatment, be aware that chloroquine and azithromycin together seriously increase risk of QT prolongation.  

 

Definitive at the moment coronavirus drug interaction document:

https://liverpool-co..._2020_Mar18.pdf

 

Also

https://www.webmd.co...tion-medication

 

Copied this from travel medicine website, didn't keep link.

 

Chloroquine

Chloroquine may increase risk of prolonged QTc interval when given with other QT-prolonging agents (such as sotalol, amiodarone, and lumefantrine), and the combination should be avoided. The antiretroviral rilpivirine has also been shown to prolong QTc, and coadministration should be avoided. Chloroquine inhibits CYP2D6; when given concomitantly with substrates of this enzyme (such as metoprolol, propranolol, fluoxetine, paroxetine, flecainide), increased monitoring for side effects may be warranted. Chloroquine absorption may be reduced by antacids or kaolin; ≥4 hours should elapse between doses of these medications. Concomitant use of cimetidine and chloroquine should be avoided, as cimetidine can inhibit the metabolism of chloroquine and may increase drug levels. CYP3A4 inhibitors such as ritonavir, ketoconazole, and erythromycin may also increase chloroquine levels, and concomitant use should be avoided. Chloroquine inhibits bioavailability of ampicillin, and 2 hours should elapse between doses. Chloroquine is also reported to decrease the bioavailability of ciprofloxacin and methotrexate. Chloroquine may increase digoxin levels; increased digoxin monitoring is warranted. Use of chloroquine could possibly also lead to increased levels of calcineurin inhibitors and should be used with caution.

Azithromycin

Close monitoring for side effects of azithromycin is recommended when azithromycin is used with nelfinavir. Increased anticoagulant effects have been noted when azithromycin is used with warfarin; monitoring prothrombin time is recommended for people taking these drugs concomitantly. Additive QTc prolongation may occur when azithromycin is used with the antimalarial artemether, and concomitant therapy should be avoided. Drug interactions have been reported with macrolides and antiretroviral protease inhibitors, as well as efavirenz and nevirapine, and can increase risk of QTc prolongation, though a short treatment course is not contraindicated for those without an underlying cardiac abnormality. Concurrent use with macrolides may lead to increased levels of calcineurin inhibitors.

INTERACTIONS WITH HERBAL OR NUTRITIONAL SUPPLEMENTS

As many as 30% of travelers take herbal or nutritional supplements, and many consider them to be of no clinical relevance and will not disclose their use unless specifically asked during the pretravel consultation. Special attention should be given to supplements that activate or inhibit CYP2D6 or CYP3A4 like ginseng, hypericum, St. John’s wort, and grapefruit extract. Coadministration with medications that are substrates of CYP2D6 or 3A4 should be avoided (chloroquine, mefloquine, macrolides).

 

 

 

[lancebr]

For those freelancing their own treatment, be aware that chloroquine and azithromycin together seriously increase risk of QT prolongation.  

 

Definitive at the moment coronavirus drug interaction document:

https://liverpool-co..._2020_Mar18.pdf

 

Also

https://www.webmd.co...tion-medication

 

Copied this from travel medicine website, didn't keep link.

 

I think if it got serious enough where I had to self medicate using those drugs I would only use the

hydroxychloroquine by itself.  Using both the hydroxy and the azithromyxin would be too dangerous

for self medicating with both having the cardiac issues.  Supposedly Korea was just using the hydroxy

alone with good results.
 

Edited by lancebr, 20 March 2020 - 07:23 PM.

[lancebr]

I did not look much into mechanism of quercetin/luteolin senolytic activity (their low bioavailability dampened my enthusiazm). I also did not look much into dasatinib (expensive cancer drug), but azitzhromycin, when that study came out, I read very carefully. Turned out, azithromycin stressed cells' mitochondria, which healthy cells were able to withstand, but senescent cells could not.

 

Also, from personal experience, since both azithromycin and quinine in various forms have always made me hungry (quinine much stronger than azithromycin), to me this means that they suppress autophagy (and likely mitochondiral fusion that comes with it). In fact, I just bumped into a quote that chloroquine is a strong autophagy inhibitor. Azithromycin, I just saw, is also autophagy inhibitor. I know that many viruses exploit autophagy machinery for their own replication and, if you could block it, that would block their replication.

 

Based on this, I would venture  a guess that COVID-19 also exploits autophagy machinery for its own replication.

 

And! the best and easiest way to inhibit autophagy is to eat well and eat often. It's good to know, in case could not get your hands on either azithromycin or chloroquine. Of course this requires good appetite. It's never a good idea to eat without an appetite (will do you more harm than good). Well, in my experience, drinking ~100 mL of diet tonic water makes me hungry in just 15 mins.

 

 

I just checked, and it's interesting that dasatinib, to the contrary, is autophagy inducer.

You were saying above that dasatinib was shown to have activity against some viruses. Do you have a link please?

 

When I first heard about quercetin I thought that was a good item to take but as you mentioned the absorption

of it doesn't seem all that good.  There is the EMIQ derivavtive of quercetin that is suppose to be better

absorbed.

 

Have you looked into EPICOR as a possible thing to help fight this?

 

What supplements/herbs do you think hold the best fight against this virus?

 

Thanks

[xEva]

 
Posted earlier in the thread -
 
Existing drugs may offer a first-line treatment for coronavirus outbreak
 
I don't think there are references for the studies for each drug in that article, but if you'll search for example "nitazoxanide MERS" (since that chart shows activity against MERS) you'll find the papers of relevance.
 
The chart is really the most important part of that article.  It's why I started researching Chloroquine three weeks ago. 
 
ETA: This is the source article for that article:  Discovery and development of safe-in-man broadspectrum antiviral agents

PDF form here:  Discovery and development of safe-in-man broadspectrum antiviral agents (PDF) Most of the sources should be there.

 

Thanks for the links, I do remember that colorful chart with dasatinib showing activity against both MERS-COV and SARS-COV -- but not COVID-19. That chart was when I too got interested in chloroquine. 

 

Well, I think I too should walk back my guess that blocking autophagy could help with COVID-19. Only because the 2 drugs known at the moment to be helpful are both autophagy inhibitors --- it's just not enough to assume that inhibition of autophagy should do the trick with this virus. It still could be something else particular to these 2 drugs, and maybe they just work in concert, like the authors suggested.

 

But ever since I read that hydroxychloroquine+azithromycin French study, even though it was only 6 people, that was the first day I felt optimistic and now am the only one around thinking that the draconian qurantine measures being taken all around are too much. (and before that, I was the annoying alarmist, as far as my friends and family were concerned lol).

 

I also saw that prolongation of Q-interval pertains to both drugs. That's a concern for people with heart issues.

Edited by xEva, 20 March 2020 - 09:07 PM.

[ConnyB]

What about aged garlic extract? The brand used in below study is from Wakunaga of ameriga (Kyolic). I read that it almost doubles your level of reduced glutathione, and that glutathione is important for the innate immunity that apparently is important during the COVID-19 infection.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/26764332

 

 

 

Garlic contains numerous compounds that have the potential to influence immunity. Immune cells, especially innate immune cells, are responsible for the inflammation necessary to kill pathogens. Two innate lymphocytes, γδ-T and natural killer (NK) cells, appear to be susceptible to diet modification. The purpose of this review was to summarize the influence of aged garlic extract (AGE) on the immune system. The author's laboratory is interested in AGE's effects on cell proliferation and activation and inflammation and to learn whether those changes might affect the occurrence and severity of colds and flu. Healthy human participants (n = 120), between 21 and 50 y of age, were recruited for a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled parallel-intervention study to consume 2.56 g AGE/d or placebo supplements for 90 d during the cold and flu season. Peripheral blood mononuclear cells were isolated before and after consumption, and γδ-T and NK cell function was assessed by flow cytometry. The effect on cold and flu symptoms was determined by using daily diary records of self-reported illnesses. After 45 d of AGE consumption, γδ-T and NK cells proliferated better and were more activated than cells from the placebo group. After 90 d, although the number of illnesses was not significantly different, the AGE group showed reduced cold and flu severity, with a reduction in the number of symptoms, the number of days participants functioned suboptimally, and the number of work/school days missed. These results suggest that AGE supplementation may enhance immune cell function and may be partly responsible for the reduced severity of colds and flu reported. The results also suggest that the immune system functions well with AGE supplementation, perhaps with less accompanying inflammation. This trial was registered at clinicaltrials.gov as NCT01390116.

 

Another interesting substance is naltrexone. I used to take it per the LDN protocol, but you get some sides from it. It definitely modulates your immune system since I got an improved resistance to colds etc, but fungus became a problem instead. 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3719261/

[Izan]

Game, set and match?

 

Swiss Pharmaceutical Company Novartis to donate 150 million (!) doses of hydroxychloroquine to the United States.

 

50 million doses NOW and another 80 million doses by the end of may.

 

Enough to treat millions upon millions of Americans who have been infected with COVID-19.

 

https://www.reuters...._source=twitter

[Mind]

Game, set and match?

 

Swiss Pharmaceutical Company Novartis to donate 150 million (!) doses of hydroxychloroquine to the United States.

 

50 million doses NOW and another 80 million doses by the end of may.

 

Enough to treat millions upon millions of Americans who have been infected with COVID-19.

 

https://www.reuters...._source=twitter

 

I guess we will find out pretty soon how effective it is. It will be the largest loosely-controlled drug trial in the history of the world.

[xEva]

When I first heard about quercetin I thought that was a good item to take but as you mentioned the absorption

of it doesn't seem all that good.  There is the EMIQ derivavtive of quercetin that is suppose to be better

absorbed.

 

Have you looked into EPICOR as a possible thing to help fight this?

 

What supplements/herbs do you think hold the best fight against this virus?

 

Thanks

 

 

I feel uneasy giving out advice on such things. What may work for me may not work for others. But since you asked, I have no experience with EPICOR and now that I looked, the first thing I saw was 'fermentation with baker yeast', and I stay as far away from baker's yeast as possible. Well, I don't fret anymore but I won't take anything with it as an ingredient. So, I cannot comment on that.

 

If I had quercetin, I'd probably take it for this virus, but I don't and am not gonna buy it (though I love foods reported high quercetin like strawberries and onions).

 

For the virus, my bet is on vit C (100mg per kg, per Chinese experience) and chloroquine with azithromycin (per French study). This is for when it starts.

 

In advance, I would make sure I have adequate levels of vit D (mine tend to get low at this time of the year) and also, I would often keep a nice fruity zinc lozenge in the mouth (as people recommending above) and drink reishi tea (should start now) coz it is known to balance the immune sys and I had positive experience with it before.

Edited by xEva, 20 March 2020 - 10:23 PM.

[lancebr]

I feel uneasy giving out advice on such things. What may work for me may not work for others. But since you asked, I have no experience with EPICOR and now that I looked, the first thing I saw was 'fermentation with baker yeast', and I stay as far away from baker's yeast as possible. Well, I don't fret anymore but I won't take anything with it as an ingredient. So, I cannot comment on that.

 

If I had quercetin, I'd probably take it for this virus, but I don't and am not gonna buy it (though I love foods reported high quercetin like strawberries and onions).

 

For the virus, my bet is on vit C (100mg per kg, per Chinese experience) and chloroquine with azithromycin (per French study). This is for when it starts.

 

In advance, I would make sure I have adequate levels of vit D (mine tend to get low at this time of the year) and also, I would often keep a nice fruity zinc lozenge in the mouth (as people recommending above) and drink reishi tea (should start now) coz it is known to balance the immune sys and I had positive experience with it before.

 

Thanks for the information.

 

I am hoping that if I do get it that the vitamin C will be enough to keep it in check and wont have

to take the prescription drugs.

[lancebr]

So can anyone give a guess as to why this is causing more death in men then women.

 

They said today that based on statistics from cases the mortality rate is twice as high

for men as women.

 

I read some info that said it might be related to the fact that women have estrogen.

.

Edited by lancebr, 21 March 2020 - 03:31 AM.

[lancebr]

The FDA has granted “emergency expanded access” to Bellerophon Therapeutics’ inhaled nitric oxide delivery system

for treating the novel coronavirus. Also known as compassionate use, the agency’s policy is typically administered on a

per-patient basis—at times when clinical trials are infeasible and there are no available alternatives.

 

Inhaled nitric oxide acts as a vasodilator, relaxing the lungs’ muscles and blood vessels, and is used in hospitals worldwide.

The compound has also been tested as a potential treatment for the novel coronavirus’ closely related predecessor—the

strain behind the SARS outbreak in the early 2000s. Previous studies showed that nitric oxide slowed down the replication

of that virus and reduced the need for long-term ventilator support.

 

https://jvi.asm.org/content/79/3/1966

 

So would increasing nitric oxide, through supplementation, maybe help to slow down the replication of the virus?

 

.

Edited by lancebr, 21 March 2020 - 06:21 AM.

[Dorian Grey]

Excellent youtube by Chris Masterjohn PhD

 

 

Stop taking Vitamin-D?  Zinc is the key?  

[thompson92]

Excellent youtube by Chris Masterjohn PhD

 

 

Stop taking Vitamin-D?  Zinc is the key?  

 

I've read and watched all of Chris's material on Covid-19.  I cannot conceive of stopping Vitamin D, given its role in immune response and the benefits it has shown in flu/cold.  And it's unclear if hypertension drugs ACEi and ARB actually make people worse off by upregulating ACE2 receptor production.  I think he's just generalizing that more receptors are bad, and he's not an immunologist.  Not having Vitamin D to respond to the virus, seems too risky to me.

[lancebr]

Excellent youtube by Chris Masterjohn PhD

 

 

Stop taking Vitamin-D?  Zinc is the key?  

 

So by his thinking then we should not be supplementing Vitamin D because it increases ACE2 in the lungs. 

 

 

Well, here is information that having more ACE2 in the lungs may actually be a good thing when it comes to

Covid19 and how Vitamin D plays a role in that.

 

 

https://www.bmj.com/.../bmj.m810/rr-24

 

 

.

[thompson92]

So by his thinking then we should not be supplementing Vitamin D because it increases ACE2 in the lungs. 

 

 

Well, here is information that having more ACE2 in the lungs may actually be a good thing when it comes to

Covid19 and how Vitamin D plays a role in that.

 

 

https://www.bmj.com/.../bmj.m810/rr-24

 

 

.

 

This is a very interesting note.  Given that nitric oxide inhibition appears to antagonize the renin/ras production pathways, taking arginine (generating NO production, raising RAS, reducing ACE expression) might be ill advised while the value of low dose methylene blue might be raised because it inhibits NO production and slightly increases systemic vascular resistance.  The point the author makes about males having intrinsically lower ACE2 expression, because it is an X-linked chromosome is also interesting, given the higher rates of worse outcomes in that group.  ARBs might be the best solution though, because it would completely nullify the effects of RAS.

 

It also partly explains why Vitamin C is beneficial, because it has a beneficial effect on tyrosine hydroxylase activity and will maintain norepinephrine and epinephrine levels, so there won't be a counter-regulatory RAS response, I think.

 

I think it begs the question whether or not Methylene Blue lengthens the QT interval and is contraindicated with chloroquine.  And does inhibiting this RAS pathway ultimately quiet the immune system and prevent lung scarring to stop the 'vicious cycle'.

Edited by thompson92, 21 March 2020 - 03:08 PM.

[lancebr]

This is a very interesting note.  Given that nitric oxide inhibition appears to antagonize the renin/ras production pathways, taking arginine (generating NO production, raising RAS, reducing ACE expression) might be ill advised while the value of low dose methylene blue might be raised because it inhibits NO production and slightly increases systemic vascular resistance.  The point the author makes about males having intrinsically lower ACE2 expression, because it is an X-linked chromosome is also interesting, given the higher rates of worse outcomes in that group.  ARBs might be the best solution though.

 

I think it begs the question whether or not Methylene Blue lengthens the QT interval and is contraindicated with chloroquine.

 

The guy in that video says not to take vitamin D, and the information in that paper says to take vitamin D.

 

So, in your opinion who is correct?

[lancebr]

This is a very interesting note.  Given that nitric oxide inhibition appears to antagonize the renin/ras production pathways, taking arginine (generating NO production, raising RAS, reducing ACE expression) might be ill advised while the value of low dose methylene blue might be raised because it inhibits NO production and slightly increases systemic vascular resistance.  The point the author makes about males having intrinsically lower ACE2 expression, because it is an X-linked chromosome is also interesting, given the higher rates of worse outcomes in that group.  ARBs might be the best solution though, because it would completely nullify the effects of RAS.

 

It also partly explains why Vitamin C is beneficial, because it has a beneficial effect on tyrosine hydroxylase activity and will maintain norepinephrine and epinephrine levels, so there won't be a counter-regulatory RAS response, I think.

 

I think it begs the question whether or not Methylene Blue lengthens the QT interval and is contraindicated with chloroquine.  And does inhibiting this RAS pathway ultimately quiet the immune system and prevent lung scarring to stop the 'vicious cycle'.

 

But who is correct in reference to the ARBs?

 

It is all over the internet about....."a letter published in Lancet Respiratory Medicine, researchers

proposed that ACE inhibitors and ARBs could increase the risk for developing severe COVID-19.

The coronavirus binds to target cells through ACE2, the expression of which is increased when

patients take these drugs."

 

 

[thompson92]

The guy in that video says not to take vitamin D, and the information in that paper says to take vitamin D.

 

So, in your opinion who is correct?

 

I think Chris Masterjohn is completely wrong and isn't delving into the complexities of how the RAS system functions, and what the underlying mechanistic characteristics are of ARDS and a viral infection.  I bought his SARS-COV2 material.  I've skimmed most of it and ordered elderberry (the centerpiece of his 'protocol'), which I had not previously considered.  But I'm not giving up Vitamin D3, because there is way more going on here than more ACE2 receptor bad, less ACE2 receptor good, that he seems to think.

 

The whole point in ACE inhibitors and ARBs is that the body doesn't see the Ang-II so it begins upregulating receptors.  Well if you are in situation with low ACE-2 receptor expression, the body probably will upregulate renin/angiotensin to try to compensate.  And that's what happens when a person takes ACEi or ARBs.  But that's a decidedly bad thing in normal people, if we are trying to avoid an inflammatory response cascade.  We don't want the RAS pathway in overdrive.

 

Therefore, you would want sufficient ACE2 receptor expression, such that when angiotensin is released, it is sensed, the body doesn't upregulate and drive a pro-fibrotic cycle.  If the body can't see ACE2, renin will rise.  You want Vitamin D and ACE2 expression.

 

And consequently, my point about Methylene Blue and Vitamin C -- because NO inhibition quiets RAS on a counter regulatory way and Vitamin C improves epinephrine/norepinephrine (vasoconstrictors) would attenuate RAS also.

 

Now maybe I'm reading too much into this and making all about angiotensin and there other things going on here (because there probably are).  I'm a lay person not a person with a background in nephrology/immunology/pulmonary.

 

And ask yourself this question, ignoring this train of thought I just typed out about Vitamin D and ACE2.  Does anyone think going into a viral infection that having an insufficient Vitamin D level is a good idea?  It doesn't even pass the common sense/smell test to me.  Even basic epidemiological data shows that those who are deficient in Vitamin D do worse in ARDS, which is exactly what will kill you in this virus.  I'm not saying Vitamin D is going to save us all, but actively avoiding its supplementation is just stupid on it's face to me.

 

 

Edited by thompson92, 21 March 2020 - 03:42 PM.

[Hip]

 I've skimmed most of it and ordered elderberry (the centerpiece of his 'protocol'), which I had not previously considered.

 

Have you not read the concerns about elderberry, that it increases the inflammatory cytokine IL-6, and high levels of IL-6 are associated with the lung damaged caused by SARS-CoV-2.

[thompson92]

Have you not read the concerns about elderberry, that it increases the inflammatory cytokine IL-6, and high levels of IL-6 are associated with the lung damaged caused by SARS-CoV-2.

 

I have not.  

 

I don't even have the elderberry here yet, it's in the mail.  I bought it because it was sold out everywhere and Chris's logic made sense when I read it.  I will look into that and thank you for bringing it to my attention.

Edited by thompson92, 21 March 2020 - 03:29 PM.

[lancebr]

Have you not read the concerns about elderberry, that it increases the inflammatory cytokine IL-6, and high levels of IL-6 are associated with the lung damaged caused by SARS-CoV-2.

 

I was about to ask the same question. 

 

Everything I have read has said that elderberry is not a good idea because of its potential to increase a cytokine storm.

[Hip]

I have not.  

 

I don't even have the elderberry here yet, it's in the mail.  I bought it because it was sold out everywhere and Chris's logic made sense when I read it.  I will look into that and thank you for bringing it to my attention.

 

There has been some investigation of the use of IL-6 inhibitors as a preventative treatment for coronavirus lung damage. See this post.

[Dorian Grey]

Thanks for the input guys.  Don't know what to make of this.  I've always admired Dr (PhD) Masterjohn's work and dedication to nutritional health.  From his video, he's been deep in the weeds on this for 2 weeks researching the matter.  His rationale about COVID being a different animal than colds & flu seemed to make sense.  

 

His rationale about D up-regulating ACE2 puzzled me, as I've heard it's the ACE2 RECEPTOR and not the enzyme itself that enables the virus.  I would think more ACE2 would keep the receptors busy and perhaps less vulnerable to viral entry?  From what I've gathered ACE2 may be what GUIDES the virus to the receptor, so perhaps this is what he's thinking.  

 

In San Diego, we can start getting Vitamin-D from sun right around the equinox, so I'm switching from supplemental D to "solar powered" D. 

 

Going out today right at solar Noon (12:30 to 1:30 PM Daylight Saving Time) for some naturally sourced D.  I'll let my body work out the details on how much D it wants to generate from what will now be regular sun-bathing.  

Edited by Dorian Grey, 21 March 2020 - 04:01 PM.

[BioHacker=Life]

Right now chloroquine is the only clinically studied drug shown to be effective in COVID-19. I stocked up and suggest anyone do the same. It's a cheap drug and easy to acquire.

 

 

Biosci Trends. 2020 Mar 16;14(1):72-73. doi: 10.5582/bst.2020.01047. Epub 2020 Feb 19.

Breakthrough: Chloroquine phosphate has shown apparent efficacy in treatment of COVID-19 associated pneumonia in clinical studies.

 

Abstract

The coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) virus is spreading rapidly, and scientists are endeavoring to discover drugs for its efficacious treatment in China. Chloroquine phosphate, an old drug for treatment of malaria, is shown to have apparent efficacy and acceptable safety against COVID-19 associated pneumonia in multicenter clinical trials conducted in China. The drug is recommended to be included in the next version of the Guidelines for the Prevention, Diagnosis, and Treatment of Pneumonia Caused by COVID-19 issued by the National Health Commission of the People's Republic of China for treatment of COVID-19 infection in larger populations in the future.

 

https://www.jstage.j...7/_pdf/-char/en

 

Edited by BioHacker=Life, 21 March 2020 - 04:47 PM.

[lancebr]

Thanks for the input guys.  Don't know what to make of this.  I've always admired Dr (PhD) Masterjohn's work and dedication to nutritional health.  From his video, he's been deep in the weeds on this for 2 weeks researching the matter.  His rationale about COVID being a different animal than colds & flu seemed to make sense.  

 

His rationale about D up-regulating ACE2 puzzled me, as I've heard it's the ACE2 RECEPTOR and not the enzyme itself that enables the virus.  I would think more ACE2 would keep the receptors busy and perhaps less vulnerable to viral entry?  From what I've gathered ACE2 may be what GUIDES the virus to the receptor, so perhaps this is what he's thinking.  

 

In San Diego, we can start getting Vitamin-D from sun right around the equinox, so I'm switching from supplemental D to "solar powered" D. 

 

Going out today right at solar Noon (12:30 to 1:30 PM Daylight Saving Time) for some naturally sourced D.  I'll let my body work out the details on how much D it wants to generate from what will now be regular sun-bathing.  

 

What is your take on him recommending Elderberry as the main thing in his protocol?

 

I thought everything out there shows elderberry is not a good idea since it raises IL-6 and the

potential for a cytokine storm.  I know some people say to take it as a preventative measure

and then if you get the virus stop, but even that sounds like a bad idea since this virus can

have a long incubation period and the person doesn't know they have it for a while.

 

 

Edited by lancebr, 21 March 2020 - 04:10 PM.

[lancebr]

This is a good video as to why you want more ACE2.  He also states that ARBS might be beneficial

and a study is going to be done to see about its use against this virus.

 

[kurdishfella]

there's so many corona threads idk where to post this https://www.nejm.org...004973?query=RP

Aerosol and Surface Stability of SARS-CoV-2 as Compared with SARS-CoV-1

Livable (viable) # hours

SARS-CoV-2

* Airborne droplets 

-Aerosols 3-24 hours

* Coverings (surfaces)

-Copper 4 hours

-Cardboard 24 hours

-Stainless steel 48 hours (2 days)

-Plastic 72 hours (3 days)

 

SARS-CoV-1

* Airborne droplets 

-Aerosols 3-24 hours

* Coverings (surfaces)

-Copper 8 hours

-Cardboard 8 hours

-Stainless steel 48 hours (2 days)

-Plastic 72 hours (3 days)

 

 

[ta5]

What is your take on him recommending Elderberry as the main thing in his protocol?

 

I thought everything out there shows elderberry is not a good idea since it raises IL-6 and the

potential for a cytokine storm.  I know some people say to take it as a preventative measure

and then if you get the virus stop, but even that sounds like a bad idea since this virus can

have a long incubation period and the person doesn't know they have it for a while.

 

This is interesting. I just bought some Elderberry and started taking it.

 

Chris Kresser wrote this about Elderberry:

Early on in the Covid outbreak, some people expressed concern about elderberry because it can potentially upregulate inflammatory cytokine production, which could contribute to the cytokine storm that makes people really sick with Covid. However, as Stephen Buhner, a renowned herbalist that I really love and follow pointed out, elderberry is a modulator of the cytokine response. Which means it can upregulate it or downregulate it as necessary. 

However, Stephen Buhner doesn't recommend Elderberry, he recommends Elder Leaf. This is his article: Herbal Treatment For Coronavirus Infections. This is his facebook page talking about Elderberry and Elder Leaf and cytokines.

[thompson92]

This is interesting. I just bought some Elderberry and started taking it.

 

Chris Kresser wrote this about Elderberry:

However, Stephen Buhner doesn't recommend Elderberry, he recommends Elder Leaf. This is his article: Herbal Treatment For Coronavirus Infections. This is his facebook page talking about Elderberry and Elder Leaf and cytokines.

 

I just downloaded and read that guy's pdf.  He also recommends upregulating ACE2.