3083 replies to this topic

[albedo]

Some information I thought useful to share grouped also here:

• encouraging preliminary results on potential drug (hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin) re-purposing from the team of Didier Raoult in Marseille, France:

Gautret et al. (2020) Hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin as a treatment of COVID‐19: results of an open‐label non‐randomized clinical trial. International Journal of Antimicrobial Agents – In Press 17 March 2020 – DOI : 10.1016/j.ijantimicag.2020.105949

https://www.mediterr...al_DOI_IJAA.pdf

 Hydroxychloroquine_final_DOI_IJAA-24-1038x553.jpg   64.79KB   0 downloads

• follow University of Minnesota launching trials on hydroxychloroqine too and also losartan and remdesivir:

https://www.kare11.c...ca-46d4c94c741c

• important framework for staging the disease

Hasan K. Siddiqi, MD, MSCR, and Mandeep R. Mehra, MD, MSc, COVID-19 Illness in Native and Immunosuppressed States: A Clinical-Therapeutic Staging Proposal

https://lnkd.in/gqXmC-h

 covid-19 stages framework.jpg   61.07KB   0 downloads

 

 

 

 

[bladedmind]

You are very likely making a huge mistake by getting of telmisartan.

 

Thanks for the information.  I presented my reasoning, and I come here to learn from debate.  I will carefully evaluate your reasoning and will review BMJ and the Seheult video I missed.  Any further references are welcome.  

[Ukko]

IDEAS FOR NUTRICEUTICAL INTERVENTION IN SARS-2-COV / COVID-19

 

The below covers some ideas regarding nutrition/supplementation to try to help prevent and/or intervene in COVID-19 infection, even if just a little.

 

OBVIOUSLY, SEE AN ACTUAL DOCTOR, IF YOU HAVE OR SUSPECT A COVID-19 INFECTION. THIS IS NOT MEDICAL ADVICE. JUST PROACTIVE BIOHACKING DISCUSSION.

 

None of the below ideas area really mine, just connecting the dots between different things I have seen lately and over the past 25 years of being a biohacker of sorts, even way before there was a name for it.

 

Obviously, all of the interventions below are subject to individual genetics, absorption/bioavailability issues and really have usually quite little research to back them up, if at all. Then again, much research is under way including, without limitation, on Nitric Oxide, Quercetin and Chloroquine as COVID-19 interventions. Just that it will take for long to those get done and there are easy, cheap and safe things we can do already. Even with less then perfect knowledge.

 

To make a long story short, I pay special attention to taking the following presently:

 

i) Key Fat Soluble Vitamins: Vitamin D3 (together with synergistic Vitamin K2 and Vitamin A);

 

ii) the classic broad spectrum flu prevention combo of NAC/L-Cystine and L-Theanine;

 

iii) a cocktail of synergistic and quite similar bioflavonoids, especially EGCG, but also resveratrol, quercetin, luteolin and astragalus (not really a bioflavonoid);

 

iv) nitric oxide boosting combo of L-Arginine, Citrulline Malate, 5-methyl-folate (activated Vitamin B9) and Vit C; and

 

v) not being deficient in any of the key minerals for immunity, like zinc, selenium and iodine.

 

To be clear, common sense stuff also applies: washing hands, social distancing, very limited (if any) alcohol intake, no smoking, intermittent fasting and limiting carbs. I also include some key links for you to read more into these things. They are just to get you started, as there are many, many other sources you will be led to through them. By all means, do better and improve the list!

 

1) SARS-2-COV THAT CAUSES COVID-19 ENTERS YOUR CELLS THROUGH AT LEAST FOUR DIFFERENT MECHANISMS

 

They are the four ways the spike proteins of the virus can enter through a receptor in the cell or to become activated by being “cleaved” by a protein/enzyme in the cell including:

 

a) ACE2 (or Angiotensin I Converting Enzyme 2, encoded in humans by the ACE2 gene):

 

https://en.wikipedia...erting_enzyme_2

https://www.sciencen...ck-infect-cells

https://www.thailand...eal-super-virus

https://www.forbes.c...d/#74027a616146

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC2886958/

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/32125455

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/32129518

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/32142651

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/32081428

 

b) Furin (encoded in humans by the FURIN gene);   

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furin

http://www.virology....s-glycoprotein/

 

c) GRP78 (or Binding Immunoglobulin Protein, encoded in humans by the HSPA5 gene; and

 

https://en.wikipedia...lobulin_protein

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/32169481

https://www.thailand...ague-of-its-own

 

d) CD147 (or Basigin/EMPRINN, encoded in humans by the BSG gene)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basigin

https://www.biorxiv.....03.14.988345v1

https://www.thailand...eal-super-virus

 

2) SOME POTENTIAL INTERVENTIONS FOR THESE FOUR MECHANISMS

 

A) ACE2 MODULATION

 

ACE2 plays a key role in vasoconstriction and blood pressure. ACE2 is a homolog of angiotensin converting enzyme (ACE1). ACE2 negatively regulates the renin angiotensin system by converting Angiotensin II to vasodilatory Angiotensin 1-7, diminishing and opposing the vasoconstrictor effect of angiotensin II. Many pharmaceutical drugs impacting ACE2 exist, but I will steer clear of those here. And leave them to doctors. There’s actually a lot of discussion presently about such drugs being potentially dangerous when facing a COVID-19 infection. You do not want to strongly mess up with ACE2 and the angiotensin system more broadly, given its importance, but you could consider modulating ACE2 receptors and maybe even blocking them mildly with natural supplements, which, on paper at least, should possibly help mitigate prevent a fully blown SARS-2-COV virus infection. At least the following have scientific backing. Basically you want to keep your angiotensin system running smoothly, as it collapsing causes lung failure and lung edeema.

 

Vitamin D3: Modulates the ACE2 Receptor

 

Basically, you want to make sure you have adequate amounts of Vitamin D3 (mammalian form) and its co-workers Vitamin K2 (mammalian forms MK4 or MK7) and Vitamin A (preformed retinol, not beta carotene). Vitamin D levels being low in the winter is generally considered to be the reason why flu season is in the Winter. Take at least 10.000 iu of Vitamin D3, which equates to about the amount your own skin generates in 90 secs of exposure in swimwear in the mid-day Summer sun. I take 20.000 iu of Vitamin D3 presently with sufficient Vitamin K2 and Vitamin A to accompany it.

 

https://www.scienced...6iD7uablEgZKeWE

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/28944831

 

Others Worth a Look:

 

Baicalin (a bioflavonoid), Scutellarin (a bioflavonoid), Hesperitin (a citrus bioflavonoid), Nicotinamine (form soy) and Glycyrrhizin (from licorice root) all block to ACE2 receptor to maybe have a preventative effect. However, a massive viral SARS-2-COV load could, I suppose, also block the ACE2 receptors, if lots of SARS-2-COV attach to ACE2 receptors, so I would stop these, if feeling sick at all. I don’t take any of them myself. Simply don’t know enough about them. Need to research more. These are just included as a reminder to myself to look into these:

 

https://www.preprint...358/v1/download

 

B) GENERAL SARS-2-COV PREVENTION/MITGATION AND DOWNTUNING FURIN

 

Bioflavonoids are generally healthy compounds present in berries, fruits, wine and so on. They show broad spectrum potential against SARS-2-COV. These include resveratrol, quercetin, luteolin, EGCG and others. I am taking all the four mentioned ones and drinking a lot of Matcha green tea, which contains a lot of EGCG. You should consider that too. Furin is a protease that cleaves other proteins to become active. It can activate the SARS-2-COV virus also. Ebola, Anthrax and the Marburg virus are other examples of viruses depending on furin cleavage for activation. Furin, as a protease, can be down tuned at least a little with several bioflavonoids, which in event should have overwhelmingly positive side effects. While furin is needed for normal protein degradation, there should be no harm in toning it down a little for now. Quite the opposite.

 

https://www.medicaln...pread-so-easily

 

Resveratrol (the red wine bioflavonoid)

 

https://en.wikipedia...iki/Resveratrol

https://examine.com/...ts/resveratrol/

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/16875760

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5307780/

 

Quercetin

 

https://en.wikipedia.../wiki/Quercetin

https://examine.com/...ents/quercetin/

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/22350287

https://jvi.asm.org/...ent/78/20/11334

https://www.ncbi.nlm...d45MMLxnLKHauMo

https://www.macleans...d45MMLxnLKHauMo

 

Luteolin (the artichoke bioflavonoid)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luteolin

https://examine.com/...ichoke-extract/

https://jvi.asm.org/...ent/78/20/11334

https://www.ncbi.nlm...TTiZDtP076ino5g

https://www.ncbi.nlm...ZhwCRc3zRe-OE0M

EGCG (Epigallocatechin gallate, the main tea bioflavonoid)

 

https://en.wikipedia...atechin_gallate

https://examine.com/...-tea-catechins/

https://www.ncbi.nlm...d45MMLxnLKHauMo

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/22350287

 

C) DOWNTUNING GRP78

 

Admittedly, GRP78 is something I did not know before. But I know enough to understand what it does. It as a chaperone in the endoplasmic reticulum (ER) of our cells that surrounds the nucleus of the cells. It is a sort of a mailman translocating proteins synthesized in the outer parts of the cells inwards to ER and maintains their proper protein folding. As everything in the human body, it serves a sane purpose, but is often over expressed. Classic example being in cancerous cells. This is basically something you may want to tone down a bit, for a while at list, so as to try to limit any possible SARS-2-COV infection and for other positive side effects as well. Luckily, there are natural supplements available to do at least a little bit of that. I am taking all three as supplements, and drinking a lot of match green tea, which has a ton of EGCG. Honokionol is hard to buy where I live, but I happened to have some around. Many bottles, though never really had a use for them. Well, now I do. As to TUDCA, well, let me put it this way: it is not available where I live, OK? Not recommending it to you here. But I believe to be the most potent of all of these. Enough said. Recommend you study it.

 

Epigallocatechin Gallate (EGCG, the main bioflavonoid in tea)

 

https://en.wikipedia...atechin_gallate

https://examine.com/...-tea-catechins/

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/23807168

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/29446867

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/24193141

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/25017472

 

Honokiol (a bioactive lignan from magnolia trees)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honokiol

https://examine.com/...ia-officinalis/

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/23807168

 

Astragalocides (extracts from the Astragalus Membranaceus plant)

 

https://en.wikipedia...alus_propinquus

https://examine.com/...s-membranaceus/

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/28071725

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/29926652

https://www.ncbi.nlm...TTiZDtP076ino5g

 

TUDCA (Tauroursodeoxycholic acid, an ER protecting chaperone and bile acid)

 

https://en.wikipedia...eoxycholic_acid

https://examine.com/...oxycholic-acid/

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/31814847

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/28071725

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/32072406

 

D) DOWNTUNING CD147

 

Here too, CD147, also known as Basigin and EMPPRIN, is another beast that was new to me. It is an immunoglobulin involved in immunity, though it is also involved in other things like determining your blood group and even spermatogenesis males. Importantly, it is highly involved in the pathogenicity of Malaria. You may have noticed all the discussion regarding the classic anti-malarial drug, chloroquine, being at least helpful in fighting a COVID-19 infection. Not taking chloroquine now, though I have eaten it for 10 periods of up to 6 months at a time for malaria prophylaxis when travelling in the Tropics. Never noticed any side effects, have some probably left in the cupboard still. Would not hesitate for a second to eat it again for a good reason. However, am already taking resveratrol, EGCG and astragalus, as already mentioned.

 

Resveratrol (the red wine polyphenol)

 

https://en.wikipedia...iki/Resveratrol

https://examine.com/...ts/resveratrol/

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/30771155

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/18647594

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/17055343

 

EGCG (Epigallocatechin Gallate, the tea bioflavonoid)

 

https://en.wikipedia...atechin_gallate

https://examine.com/...-tea-catechins/

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/27832636

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/29862488

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/20446926

 

Astragalus

 

https://en.wikipedia...alus_propinquus

https://examine.com/...s-membranaceus/

https://www.ncbi.nlm...d147 astragalus

 

Chloroquine (the classic anti-malarial, a drug against COVID-19 infection)

 

NOTE: CHLOROQUINE IS A PHARMACEUTICAL WITH DOCUMENTED NEGATIVE SIDE EFFECTS. IF INTERESTED, TO TALK TO A REAL DOCTOR ABOUT IT. THIS ARTICLE IS ABOUT NATURAL SUPPLEMENTS ONLY.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/32173110

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/29154780

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/32196083

 

3) CLASSIC NAC + THEANINE COMBO:

 

I also recommend the classic broad spectrum flu prevention combo of L-theanine (common L-Glutamine with an extra ethyl group) and L-Cystine (from NAC (n-acetyl-cysteine), do not take at the same time with Vitamin C as you actually want the NAC to oxidize to L-Cystine specifically. Take Vitamin C at a different time, if you want to). Alpha lipoic acid nicely complements NAC, if you can find it. NAC and alpha lipoic acid are pretty powerful antivirals in their own right, but that is for another article. Have been using all these for 25+ years non-stop for other purposes.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...tZHBkhKp9aROKK0

https://link.springe...tZHBkhKp9aROKK0

 

4)  BOOSTING NITRIC OXIDE WITH L-ARGININE+VIT C+VIT B9:

 

Glad to see to this clinically tried as well (below link). Very basic stuff, essentially involves any pre-workout powder product. Got the idea from the fact that our immune cells use nitric oxide as their ammunition. Again, others have gotten the same idea way before. Importantly, NO is all over your body as the gas that keeps your arteries open, as a messenger in your nervous system, as the raw material for other compounds that your immune system fights viruses etc. Its levels decline with aging, so it may be at least one thing explaining the higher mortality in older people.

 

If you feel sick at all, I would consider boosting your immune and circulatory system with a lot of L-Arginine. Any pre-workout powder will do. Other options are Citrulline Malate or L-Ornithine. Them also boosting arginine being the raw material for the iNos enzyme producing nitric oxide (NO). iNos uses tetrahydrobiopterin BH4 as cofactor, so you need to boost BH4 as well through boosting its recycling with plain ascorbic acid (Vit C) and activated 5 methyl folate (activated Vitamin B9). Last one likely being super key, if your MTHFR gene as either of the very common A1298C or C699T polymorphisms not to even mention if you are homozygous or compound heterozygous for them.

 

Could make a big difference. So glad to see someone trying out the same clinically with gaseous NO even. So: grams of L-Arginine + lot of Vit C + lot of active Vit B9 (methyl folate).  Have been using all these for 25+ years non-stop for other purposes.

 

See how they are trying gaseous nitric oxide inhalation as a COVID-19:

 

https://clinicaltria...how/NCT04290871

 

Sildenafil, known as Viagra to those who use it (not me!), also works by boosting nitric oxide. It too is being researched as a COVID-19 therapy. At least the guys should like the side/front effects:

 

https://clinicaltria...how/NCT04304313

 

You are welcome. Improve this further, please.

 

Edited by Mind, 23 March 2020 - 01:53 PM.

[Dorian Grey]

guys, remember the study (which i posted in here a few days ago): relationship between the ABO Blood Group and the COVID-19 Susceptibility    ?

 

this was its conclusion: People with blood group A have a significantly higher risk for acquiring COVID-19 compared with non-A blood groups, whereas blood group O has a significantly lower risk for the infection compared with non-O blood groups.

 

 

Now, guess who are deficient in zinc?

 

People who have bloodtype A

 

http://www.rroij.com...h.php?aid=59918

 

So many roads leading to the Rome of Zinc Deficiency in advanced COVID disease & fatalities.  

 

Geriatric zinc deficiency

Blood Type-A zinc deficiency

Diabetes related zinc deficiency

Hypertension / ACE inhibitor and ARB medication induced zinc deficiency

 

Wonder if anyone is looking at PPI use (zinc deficiency) possibly associated with advanced COVID & fatalities.  

 

How long will it take the boffins at WHO & CDC to notice this?  

[pamojja]

People with blood group “A” are deficient in Zinc and Magnesium [44-47], “B” in Iron , “AB” in calcium and blood group “O” individuals are deficient in Iodine [10,41].

 

Wow. As an "A" I needed monthly Mg infusion additional to taking 1.7 g/d of oral elemental Magnesium to come out of deficiency. And 70 mg/d of zinc didn't raise my blood zinc level much more than to low normal.

Edited by pamojja, 22 March 2020 - 08:07 PM.

[Dorian Grey]

On the previous page, I posted a link to a paper on the potential benefit of an ionophore as helpful in getting zinc into the cells the COVID virus enters in order to replicate.  

 

https://www.research..._of_a_physicist

 

The author opines this may be the primary beneficial effect of chloroquine, which has shown promise in ameliorating COVID.  Apparently zinc has been shown to hamper viral replication, but ONLY if it is present within the ACE receptor cells this virus uses for breeding.  The ionophore is what gets the zinc into these cells, but logically this would only work if there is adequate zinc available.  Doctors looking at chloroquine have been using fairly high doses originally developed for malaria prevention and there are side effects for some patients. As we've seen advanced COVID is typically associated with individuals likely to be deficient in zinc, it may be chloroquine could be ineffective in many of these patients due to their zinc deficiency which predisposed them to advanced COVID in the first place.  

 

 I'm thinking, in those adequately replete with zinc, perhaps much smaller doses of an alternate ionophore (Quercetin / Quinine) might be effective, at least as a prophylactic.  As the immune system works best during sleep:

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5768894/

 

I'm thinking low dose zinc, washed down with some green tea or tonic water before bed might be the best defense for many of us.  

[Izan]

Could we perhaps research why (hydroxy)chloroquine works even better against covid-19 when combined with azithromycin?

 

Beyond the hypothesis of it working against covid-19 because of its autophagy mechanism?

[Izan]

This is incredible mate, thanks!

[BioHacker=Life]

Could we perhaps research why (hydroxy)chloroquine works even better against covid-19 when combined with azithromycin?

 

Beyond the hypothesis of it working against covid-19 because of its autophagy mechanism?

 

azithromycin has known antiviral properties.

[Florin]

VPM1002 is another tuberculosis vaccine being tested against the coronavirus.

 

https://www.mpg.de/1...st-corona-virus

[lancebr]

On the previous page, I posted a link to a paper on the potential benefit of an ionophore as helpful in getting zinc into the cells the COVID virus enters in order to replicate.  

 

https://www.research..._of_a_physicist

 

The author opines this may be the primary beneficial effect of chloroquine, which has shown promise in ameliorating COVID.  Apparently zinc has been shown to hamper viral replication, but ONLY if it is present within the ACE receptor cells this virus uses for breeding.  The ionophore is what gets the zinc into these cells, but logically this would only work if there is adequate zinc available.  Doctors looking at chloroquine have been using fairly high doses originally developed for malaria prevention and there are side effects for some patients. As we've seen advanced COVID is typically associated with individuals likely to be deficient in zinc, it may be chloroquine could be ineffective in many of these patients due to their zinc deficiency which predisposed them to advanced COVID in the first place.  

 

 I'm thinking, in those adequately replete with zinc, perhaps much smaller doses of an alternate ionophore (Quercetin / Quinine) might be effective, at least as a prophylactic.  As the immune system works best during sleep:

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5768894/

 

I'm thinking low dose zinc, washed down with some green tea or tonic water before bed might be the best defense for many of us.  

 

What is an optimal, but safe, daily dose of zinc to take?

 

Thanks
 

[Dorian Grey]

Thanks for all the hard work and sharing of knowledge Ukko.  

 

I'm taking a glass of tonic water in the evening (quinine a kissin' cousin to chloroquine) for the ionophore effect (helping zinc across cell membranes).  The dose of quinine is quite small, but better than nothing?  Quercetin & EGCG may have a similar (ionophore) effect.  My top tier supps (along with zinc).  

 

This guy: https://www.research..._of_a_physicist

 

seems to think zinc (with ionophore transport) is the Holy Grail of disease containment.  

 

Good Karma to You, & Best of Luck!  

[Dorian Grey]

50mg of zinc is is a typical stand alone supplement dose, & close to the upper safe limit, but I wouldn't take this over an extended period.  I've got a pill cutter & I'm cutting my 50mg KAL Tri-Zinc in half, taking 25mg/day.  

 

I like low doses in everything I take, & from what I've gathered about zinc & COVID, mega-doses of zinc likely are not helpful.  Being dern sure you're not deficient is, and getting zinc across cell membranes with an ionophore (chloroquine / quinine / quercetin / EGCG) is the Holy Grail of avoiding advanced COVID disease (in my humble opinion).  

 

 

Edited by Dorian Grey, 23 March 2020 - 04:22 AM.

[BioHacker=Life]

https://www.ncbi.nlm...mycin antiviral

[Dorian Grey]

An in depth look at Chloroquine here:

 

https://blogs.scienc...ast-and-present

 

Zinc & the Immune System here: https://www.hindawi....r/2016/6762343/

 

Edited by Dorian Grey, 23 March 2020 - 05:35 AM.

[lancebr]

Thanks for all the hard work and sharing of knowledge Ukko.  

 

I'm taking a glass of tonic water in the evening (quinine a kissin' cousin to chloroquine) for the ionophore effect (helping zinc across cell membranes).  The dose of quinine is quite small, but better than nothing?  Quercetin & EGCG may have a similar (ionophore) effect.  My top tier supps (along with zinc).  

 

This guy: https://www.research..._of_a_physicist

 

seems to think zinc (with ionophore transport) is the Holy Grail of disease containment.  

 

Good Karma to You, & Best of Luck!  

 

What brand of tonic water are you using?  Everything I have found so far has so much sugar in it.

 

Thanks
 

[Dorian Grey]

The FDA limits quinine content of tonic water to 83ppm / 83mg per liter, but different brands are free to use less than this in their formulas.  I scoured the internet looking for tonic with the highest quinine content to no avail.  Settled on Fever-Tree Premium Indian tonic water which claims it contains "natural quinine".  It's ingredients say it is made with "sugar" with no mention of high fructose corn syrup, with 50 calories per can.  It is made in the UK, & I reckon they know their tonic.  I did find some "light" tonics with fewer calories, but these were quite pricey.  

 

I was surprised at how expensive many boutique tonics were, & as I may be drinking this daily for several months, price was a factor.  The Fever-Tree Premium Indian was around $6 for an 8-pack of 5.7oz cans (BevMo).  I plan on drinking 2/night as a prophylactic and perhaps more if I get sick. 

 

True confessions...  I do put a drop of gin in the glass too.  

Edited by Dorian Grey, 23 March 2020 - 05:59 AM.

[lancebr]

.

So does anyone understand what this person is talking about concerning the studies and micromolar?

 

 

"Zinc is a fringe theory that gets people excited because of supplements. Chloroquine alters endosomal pH

and that has wide-ranging effects directly on virus replication (e.g.this), ACE2 expression, and immune activation.

 

The zinc hypothesis connects this PLOS ONE paper with this PLOS Pathogens paper saying that zinc

and another zinc ionophore inhibit SARS RNA-dependent RNA polymerase (RdRp) in cell culture.

The thing is that in both these papers, the scientists added micromolar concentrations of zinc to the

cell culture medium, roughly 1000x higher than the single-digit nanomolar zinc concentrations normally

found in cell culture medium.

 

Other in vitro studies of chloroquine inhibiting SARS in cell culture (e.g. this) don't add extra zinc to the

cell culture medium and the virus is still strongly inhibited. So while the zinc ionophore function may have

a small role, it is clearly not the major mechanism of action for chloroquine."

Edited by lancebr, 23 March 2020 - 06:45 AM.

[Ukko]

Strong BUY for the stocks of tonic water makers

 

[Izan]

VPM1002 is another tuberculosis vaccine being tested against the coronavirus.

 

https://www.mpg.de/1...st-corona-virus

 

Status of zinc in pulmonary tuberculosis

 

BACKGROUND:

To study the status of zinc as a micronutrient in pulmonary tuberculosis, in our population, with the aim to see the effectiveness of therapy.

METHODOLOGY:

This prospective study includes 50 patients with pulmonary tuberculosis and 30 subjects as the control group. The patients were placed into three stages (1 to 3) on the basis of chest radiographic findings. Serum zinc levels were estimated before, during, and after completion of antituberculosis therapy.

RESULTS:

Statistically significant fall in serum zinc levels was seen with advanced age and disease, and the levels improved after initiation of antituberculosis therapy.

CONCLUSION:

Estimation of serum zinc levels is an important tool in diagnosis and monitoring of response to treatment in pulmonary tuberculosis, and even a booster of the immunological mechanisms if instituted during the course of treatment.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/19759506

[Izan]

azithromycin has known antiviral properties.

Azithromycin inhibits the degradation (corrosion) of zinc when it is exposed to the highly corrosive substance sulfuric acid.

 

https://www.research..._A_Azithromycin

[Izan]

I found a document on an overview of planned and/or ongoing studies of drugs for the treatment of COVID-19

 

-spoiler alert-

 

an enormous amount of studies/experiments are taking place right now (didn't know that!)

 

 

https://laegemiddels...E24604AC36.ashx

[Izan]

So, hydroxychloroquine clearly works, but not for everyone. When French researchers combined HCQ with azithromycin they achieved a 100 % cure rate.

 

But why? I think Dorian has hit the nail on the head. It's all about having adequate (optimum!) zinc levels floating around in your body and even if you don't have optimum levels of zinc (people with blood type A for example) then azithromycin will make sure that whatever your zinc level is, it does not degrade any further when COVID-19 is trying to hijack a host cell and starts to multiply (infection), so there still will be sufficient levels of zinc present and therefore the hydroxychloroquine can do its job and eliminate COVID-19 from your system.

 

Any thoughts on this guys?

[thompson92]

So, hydroxychloroquine clearly works, but not for everyone. When French researchers combined HCQ with azithromycin they achieved a 100 % cure rate.

 

But why? I think Dorian has hit the nail on the head. It's all about having adequate (optimum!) zinc levels floating around in your body and even if you don't have optimum levels of zinc (people with blood type A for example) then azithromycin will make sure that whatever your zinc level is, it does not degrade any further when COVID-19 is trying to hijack a host cell and starts to multiply (infection), so there still will be sufficient levels of zinc present and therefore the hydroxychloroquine can do its job and eliminate COVID-19 from your system.

 

Any thoughts on this guys?

 

I think the azithromycin has more to do with the interferon effect, than zinc.  It seems unnecessary to take azithromycin for any zinc reason, because chloroquine is such a strong zinc transport enabler.  You would just take more chloroquine and zinc supplements.  I'm not 100% sure, but that is my guess from 50,000 feet.

[Izan]

I think the azithromycin has more to do with the interferon effect, than zinc.  It seems unnecessary to take azithromycin for any zinc reason, because chloroquine is such a strong zinc transport enabler.  You would just take more chloroquine and zinc supplements.  I'm not 100% sure, but that is my guess from 50,000 feet.

When you are infected with COVID-19 and you try to take zinc supplements to increase your zinc levels, then it's already too late, no? Because it  may take quite a while for your serum zinc levels to increase, while azithromycin's effects are instant.

 

Azithromycin has other remarkable (positive) mechanisms, no doubt about that. Such an interesting 'antibiotic'.

[zorba990]

For myself I suspect zinc supplements in triggering tendon issues from quinolone usage decades ago. Zinc pushes out copper and manganese and quinine water always triggered this as well. It took ages to figure these things out. Copper 3mg manganese 10mg for a month or two seemed to solve it. Because of that I am hesitant to use zinc for more than a few days of ionic zinc gargle if any flu presents.

[Mind]

I think the azithromycin has more to do with the interferon effect, than zinc.  It seems unnecessary to take azithromycin for any zinc reason, because chloroquine is such a strong zinc transport enabler.  You would just take more chloroquine and zinc supplements.  I'm not 100% sure, but that is my guess from 50,000 feet.

 

 

From my 50,000 foot perspective, perhaps azithromycin helps in this protocol because it tamps down secondary pneumonia-like developments that come along with coronavirus infection.

[Daniel Cooper]

From my 50,000 foot perspective, perhaps azithromycin helps in this protocol because it tamps down secondary pneumonia-like developments that come along with coronavirus infection.

 

I don't think that's it.  I believe there is a French paper in this thread that shows viral load decreasing more quickly with hydroxychloroquine + azithromycin than with hydroxychloroquine alone, showing essentially clearance of the virus in about 5 days with the combo.

 

Azithromycin certainly has other effects than as an antibiotic.  It's a senolytic and may change other aspects of the cellular membrane in a way that makes it more difficult for covid-19 to penetrate.  

[OP2040]

So many roads leading to the Rome of Zinc Deficiency in advanced COVID disease & fatalities.  

 

Geriatric zinc deficiency

Blood Type-A zinc deficiency

Diabetes related zinc deficiency

Hypertension / ACE inhibitor and ARB medication induced zinc deficiency

 

Wonder if anyone is looking at PPI use (zinc deficiency) possibly associated with advanced COVID & fatalities.  

 

How long will it take the boffins at WHO & CDC to notice this?  

 

While I don't buy any theory in full at this point, I've always been a strong believer in Zinc simply because it shows up as a bystander in so much of the literature on viruses in particular.  I happen to be type A and extremely happy that I've been supplementing zinc at a reasonable level for as long as i can remember.

 

Having said that, my current zinc is wrapped up with elderberry in lozenge form.  I still like elderberry too and don't really buy into the cytokine storm idea.  If that were a major driver, then the disease mortality wouldn't be so age-biased.  Likely, we want to boost our immune response even after we get a fever or cough.  Having said that I'd consider dropping the elderberry and just take zinc in such a situation.

 

There may indeed be something to the ACE2 stuff, but lets consider one thing.  Humanity has been plagued by hypertension for a long time, and it is almost the only age-related disease that remains a complete etiological mystery.  There are as many causes and chronic cures to it as there are individuals.  It's highly complex is what I'm saying.  If possible, maybe people should switch from ACE to something else.  But in large part, I see this strategy going nowhere fast in such a fast moving situation. 

 

I guess it pays to be a longecity supplement junkie, since here is my Covid stack, that I didn't even need to buy.

1. AHCC - huge bag of powder for just such an occasion.

2. Zinc/Elderberry lozenges - and just zinc when that runs out

3. Luteolin

4. Quercetin

5. Vitamin D

6. NAC

7. Humidifier running

8. Copper bracelets made from speaker wire - this makes me officially look crazy, which means I can never reveal my true identity IRL, lmao.

9. Melatonin

10. Sodium Nitrite - the alternative pathway for fast NO production in case that idea pans out

 

As it stands, I think the assumption should be that most people will get it, and therefore it doesn't hurt to be vigilant.  It should be obvious I totally disagree with the medical pundits who have to say that nothing is proven and everything is snake oil, blah, blah, blah.  Believe me, I understand why they say it and the need for saying it.  But for the enlightened person who actually reads the literature, it's perfectly reasonable to take educated guesses and protective measures that may have moderate risks in a crisis.

[Daniel Cooper]

The problem with saying it's "zinc deficiency" is that a lot of people in the thread are looking for connections to zinc deficiency.  And by god, you will find some, regardless of whether that is the root cause.  There are a lot of variables in play and just on random chance some of them are going to line up with zinc deficiency.  The problem is you get tunnel vision and focus only on your favorite root cause and bias in favor of things that confirm your theory.  

 

I've done this before myself.  It's what we humans do.  

 

Now, I'm *not* saying that zinc deficiency isn't a root cause. It may well be that you guys have figured it out. I'm just throwing out a caution that confirmation bias is a real thing.