3083 replies to this topic

[resveratrol_guy]

Might have been posted already but a doctor in New York claims 100% success rate with the combo of Hydroxychloroquine and Zinc.

 

https://www.thegatew...h-z-paks-video/

 

Data is king. 350 patients with zero hospitalizations speaks volumes. Note that, given the posts above, Hydroxychloroquine alone may be useless (and invite resistance).

 

I actually saw the video made by the doc and embedded in this article before it mysteriously went offline. (No, it's not a conspiracy, even though he seems to be politically far right, and thus an equally worthy target of suppression as the far left. FDA makes no secret of its crackdowns, and perhaps he's just scared, and rightly so.)

 

EDIT: Video might be accessible here: https://www.youtube....h?v=7h9UXkDaI5A

 

Note that:

 

* He's dealing with hydroxychloroquine, not its more toxic predecessor, chloroquine.

 

* The URL says "Z pak" as in "azythromycin antibiotic", but the doctor used zinc. The article confirms this reporting error. I don't think this drug should be used unless bacteria are an issue, in which case other antibiotics may be as good or better.

 

* WHO is pitching, among other trials, hydroxychloroquine and azythromycin. I think this is an awful idea. It just pushes viral resistance to the former and bacterial resistance to the latter, even if it works at the moment.

 

* I would not, personally, take it as a prophylactic precisely because it works so well: generally, we don't want to prematurely abort DNA transcription. We should be making all the proteins we need, and doing so properly. Take enough zinc to stay healthy, and that's it. If you start getting chills, and certainly if you move on to a dry cough with nothing else except perhaps trouble breathing, then start the protocol. Excess zinc also causes memory issues (as does zinc defficiency).

 

* Do what you need to do to stock hydroxychloroquine. Perhaps find it online, or from a doc who has been hoarding it, if not willing to prescribe it outright. The medical system won't be there for you, in all likelihood, even if they have sufficient capacity, simply because they're doing virtually nothing to try things that are likely to help, apart from minimizing discomfort. This applies virtually no matter where in the world you live.

 

* I leave it to others to reverse engineer the dosages. I just want to beat the drum of Zelenko therapy because it's worth trying until disproven. I don't see anything he would have to gain from lying about it, and a career to lose.

 

* Basic theory begins @ 2:41: https://www.youtube....h?v=BIymfznD7YA

 

Dorian Grey and izan82 seem to have noticed this, but otherwise it appears to have been lost in the noise.

 

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 27 March 2020 - 05:05 AM.

[lancebr]

Data is king. 350 patients with zero hospitalizations speaks volumes. Note that, given the posts above, HCQ alone may be useless (and invite resistance).

 

I actually saw the video made by the doc and embedded in this article before it mysteriously went offline. (No, it's not a conspiracy, even though he seems to be politically far right, and thus an equally worthy target of suppression as the far left. FDA makes no secret of its crackdowns, and perhaps he's just scared, and rightly so.) Note that:

 

* He's dealing with hydroxychloroquine, not its more toxic predecessor, chloroquine.

 

* The URL says "Z pak" as in "azythromycin antibiotic", but the doctor used zinc. The article confirms this reporting error. I don't think this drug should be used unless bacteria are an issue, in which case other antibiotics may be as good or better.

 

* WHO is pitching, among other trials, hydroxychloroquine and azythromycin. I think this is an awful idea. It just pushes viral resistance to the former and bacterial resistance to the latter, even if it works at the moment.

 

* I would not, personally, take it as a prophylactic precisely because it works so well: generally, we don't want to prematurely abort DNA transcription. We should be making all the proteins we need, and doing so properly. Take enough zinc to stay healthy, and that's it. If you start getting chills, and certainly if you move on to a dry cough with nothing else except perhaps trouble breathing, then start the protocol. Excess zinc also causes memory issues (as does zinc defficiency).

 

* Do what you need to do to stock hydroxychloroquine. Perhaps find it online, or from a doc who has been hoarding it, if not willing to prescribe it outright. The medical system won't be there for you, in all likelihood, even if they have sufficient capacity, simply because they're doing virtually nothing to try things that are likely to help, apart from minimizing discomfort. This applies virtually no matter where in the world you live.

 

* I leave it to others to reverse engineer the dosages. I just want to beat the drum of Zelenko therapy because it's worth trying until disproven. I don't see anything he would have to gain from lying about it, and a career to lose.

 

* Basic theory begins @ 2:41: https://www.youtube....h?v=BIymfznD7YA

 

Dorian Grey and izan82 seem to have noticed this, but otherwise it appears to have been lost in the noise.

 

At this point it is pretty much impossible to find hydroxychloroquine that is available to purchase.  Either pharmacies

are out of stock because hospitals and doctors have been hoarding it, or finding places online to purchase it is

impossible.  India, who is a big supplier of it, has now stopped all export of their supplies.  There were a few online

pharmacies from India that don't require a prescription but now that it has banned export they won't send it.

 

So unless someone knows where it can be purchased then it is pretty much not available anymore.

 

[BioHacker=Life]

At this point it is pretty much impossible to find hydroxychloroquine that is available to purchase.  Either pharmacies

are out of stock because hospitals and doctors have been hoarding it, or finding places online to purchase it is

impossible.  India, who is a big supplier of it, has now stopped all export of their supplies.  There were a few online

pharmacies from India that don't require a prescription but now that it has banned export they won't send it.

 

So unless someone knows where it can be purchased then it is pretty much not available anymore.

 

 

You must not be looking very hard. I know a handful of places online you can get a script or just order it straight.

[resveratrol_guy]

At this point it is pretty much impossible to find hydroxychloroquine that is available to purchase.  Either pharmacies

are out of stock because hospitals and doctors have been hoarding it, or finding places online to purchase it is

impossible.  India, who is a big supplier of it, has now stopped all export of their supplies.  There were a few online

pharmacies from India that don't require a prescription but now that it has banned export they won't send it.

 

So unless someone knows where it can be purchased then it is pretty much not available anymore.

 

I see. Emergency group buy? Seems like something that's not very hard to synthesize. Surely C(18)H(26)ClN(3)O can't be that difficult to assemble?
 

You must not be looking very hard. I know a handful of places online you can get a script or just order it straight.

 

Details, please...

[resveratrol_guy]

Managed to find some more details. Turns out he was using zinc and Z pak. (I still don't like the latter, but nevermind.)

 

Watch this repost before it disappears. Take notes. Let's not get into a political or religious discussion. Stick to the science.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=euZQkdJzQ_o

 

Read before it disappears:

 

https://uslibertywir...ero-intubations

 

https://forward.com/...ne-trump-doctor

 

He says:

 

"My out-patient treatment regimen is as follows:

Hydroxychloroquine 200mg twice a day for 5 days

Azithromycin 500mg once a day for 5 days

Zinc sulfate 220mg once a day for 5 days"

 

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 27 March 2020 - 05:35 AM.

[lancebr]

Managed to find some more details. Turns out he was using zinc and Z pak. (I still don't like the latter, but nevermind.)

 

Watch this repost before it disappears. Take notes. Let's not get into a political or religious discussion. Stick to the science.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=euZQkdJzQ_o

 

Read before it disappears:

 

https://uslibertywir...ero-intubations

 

https://forward.com/...ne-trump-doctor

 

He says:

 

"My out-patient treatment regimen is as follows:

Hydroxychloroquine 200mg twice a day for 5 days

Azithromycin 500mg once a day for 5 days

Zinc sulfate 220mg once a day for 5 days"

 

I wonder if there was any specific reason for choosing zinc sulfate....or if any type of zinc would work.

 

[BioHacker=Life]

I wonder if there was any specific reason for choosing zinc sulfate....or if any type of zinc would work.

 

 

Optizinc or zinc sucrosomial would be better. Sulfate is poorly absorbed and provides no additional benefit.

[Daniel Cooper]

Data is king. 350 patients with zero hospitalizations speaks volumes. Note that, given the posts above, Hydroxychloroquine alone may be useless (and invite resistance).

 

Data is king, but there's some data we don't have.  We don't know the demographics of this doctor's patient population. Specifically we don't know the age of his patient population.

 

If most of his patients are below 50, then having no deaths over 350 patients might not be that remarkable.

 

 

[osris]

Has anyone in this thread suggested oleuropein and epicatechin-gallate? 

 

Both would be easily available options.

[thompson92]

Has anyone in this thread suggested oleuropein and epicatechin-gallate? 

 

Both would be easily available options.

 

EGCG is a highly viable approach.  I went through a few zinc papers last night and it seems to promote cytoplasmic zinc concentrations, even in the face of a surge of IL-6, which is what manifests in the immune response from the virus.  It would be inhibiting of viral replication.  It won't work to the magnitude of chloroquine, but it will work to some degree.

[xEva]

They have a Dr. Haseltine on CNN right now saying that a new study just released from China

shows that hydroxychloroquine was not effective in treatment and he said that patients that

were on the treatment actually did worse then patient not on the treatment.

 

Here is his article about it:

 

https://www.forbes.c...w/#a558a46409be

 

What is the deal with these doctors....some say it works great others say it doesn't work at all.

 

No mystery here . Hydroxychloroquine is off patent while Gilead's antiviral has the potential to make their stockholders very rich.

[Dorian Grey]

EGCG is a highly viable approach.  I went through a few zinc papers last night and it seems to promote cytoplasmic zinc concentrations, even in the face of a surge of IL-6, which is what manifests in the immune response from the virus.  It would be inhibiting of viral replication.  It won't work to the magnitude of chloroquine, but it will work to some degree.

 

Consider also Tonic Water with quinine very similar to chloroquine.  Maximum quinine content 83mg/liter means it would be difficult (though not impossible) to to get the Zenloko therapeutic 200mg 2X/day.  

 

Perhaps dosing of hydroxychloroquine is based primarily on toxic limit & effective dose may be significantly lower. 

 

Most hydroxy-C therapies haven't supplemented zinc, so they are trying to move minimal/depleted blood levels of zinc with large amounts of med.  

 

In those replete with zinc lower doses may be sufficient?  How bout a combo of quinine, EGCG & Quercetin?  

[thompson92]

They have a Dr. Haseltine on CNN right now saying that a new study just released from China

shows that hydroxychloroquine was not effective in treatment and he said that patients that

were on the treatment actually did worse then patient not on the treatment.

 

Here is his article about it:

 

https://www.forbes.c...w/#a558a46409be

 

What is the deal with these doctors....some say it works great others say it doesn't work at all.

 

The study is too small from what I can read of the Chinese written paper.  30 controls, 30 test subjects.  It's inconclusive and I can't see the exact methods of how the drug and/or subjects were administered and treated.  Please the raw source, study material in the future, pls.

[lancebr]

EGCG is a highly viable approach.  I went through a few zinc papers last night and it seems to promote cytoplasmic zinc concentrations, even in the face of a surge of IL-6, which is what manifests in the immune response from the virus.  It would be inhibiting of viral replication.  It won't work to the magnitude of chloroquine, but it will work to some degree.

 

So what would be a safe daily dosage, but still effective, of ECGC? 

 

I know it has the potential for liver damage. We probably would not want to reduce our liver function

before getting this virus since the liver plays an important role in helping fight a virus.

 

I guess if I am taking ashwagandha, since it does show to dock in between the RBD and ACE2

receptor, then that herb is suppose to be good for the liver maybe will help even out things with

the liver.

 

 

[lancebr]

Consider also Tonic Water with quinine very similar to chloroquine.  Maximum quinine content 83mg/liter means it would be difficult (though not impossible) to to get the Zenloko therapeutic 200mg 2X/day.  

 

Perhaps dosing of hydroxychloroquine is based primarily on toxic limit & effective dose may be significantly lower. 

 

Most hydroxy-C therapies haven't supplemented zinc, so they are trying to move minimal/depleted blood levels of zinc with large amounts of med.  

 

In those replete with zinc lower doses may be sufficient?  How bout a combo of quinine, EGCG & Quercetin?  

 

So. all the doctors who are having success with the HydroxyC treatment are they also using the Azithromycin

in their treatment?  If they are then what would we use if we use in its place to have the same benefit?

Edited by lancebr, 27 March 2020 - 03:48 PM.

[BioHacker=Life]

I see. Emergency group buy? Seems like something that's not very hard to synthesize. Surely C(18)H(26)ClN(3)O can't be that difficult to assemble?
 

 

Details, please...

 

https://twitter.com/...989473342738438

[Dorian Grey]

The study is too small from what I can read of the Chinese written paper.  30 controls, 30 test subjects.  It's inconclusive and I can't see the exact methods of how the drug and/or subjects were administered and treated.  Please the raw source, study material in the future, pls.

 

I read it was 30 total.  15 test & 15 control.  Sorry I don't have the link.  

 

From what I gleaned all survived and cleared the virus promptly  (mild disease?) and the 15 control group cleared the virus 1 day earlier on average than the test group did.  

 

Big Pharma is desperately trying to avoid a cheap generic being the solution to COVID.  They all want an expensive new drug and vaccine.  

[Dorian Grey]

So what would be a safe daily dosage, but still effective, of ECGC? 

 

I know it has the potential for liver damage. We probably would not want to reduce our liver function

before getting this virus since the liver plays an important role in helping fight a virus.

 

I guess if I am taking ashwagandha, since it does show to dock in between the RBD and ACE2

receptor, then that herb is suppose to be good for the liver maybe will help even out things with

the liver.

 

I would never mega-dose EGCG.  I need my liver for other things.  No more than 2-3 cups of fresh brewed green tea/day.  All the supplements seem to have huge doses, so no thanks.  

 

I'm liking the idea of combining ionophores quinine quercetin & green tea with multiple low doses of zinc/day.  Haven't researched it yet, but I'm assuming peak plasma levels of zinc are probably around an hour after dropping a dose.  Perfect time to hit it with your ionophore.  Rinse & Repeat 3X/day.  

[Dorian Grey]

So. all the doctors who are having success with the HydroxyC treatment are they also using the Azithromycin

in their treatment?  If they are then what would we use if we use in its place to have the same benefit?

 

I'm thinking the French may have used Azithromycin simply as insurance against bacterial complication, & because they had success, everyone want's to follow their protocol.  

 

Haven't really seen the mechanism on how this might actually effect COVID response.  

[lancebr]

I would never mega-dose EGCG.  I need my liver for other things.  No more than 2-3 cups of fresh brewed green tea/day.  All the supplements seem to have huge doses, so no thanks.  

 

I'm liking the idea of combining ionophores quinine quercetin & green tea with multiple low doses of zinc/day.  Haven't researched it yet, but I'm assuming peak plasma levels of zinc are probably around an hour after dropping a dose.  Perfect time to hit it with your ionophore.  Rinse & Repeat 3X/day.  

 

So on your quercetin and zinc what are the max doses you are planning to take on a daily basis?

 

 

[OP2040]

The best part is the hypocrisy of what is considered "valid" for approving a pharmaceutical.  Some of the approvals for blockbuster drugs are based on some of the most pathetic data imaginable, the same kind of data that would be roundly dismissed if it were a supplement or generic.

 

Having said that I truly believe it's a systems issue and not a conspiracy.  Just look at Gilead.  Did the right thing, cured Hep C and lost a ton of money on it, and to add insult to injury not many people are actually getting the cure.  It's not really Gilead's fault, they are forced to play the game. 

 

The government needs to create health markets that remove the ridiculous distortions and actually reward companies for improving health and promoting long-term cures. If companies cannot profit from long-term cures and long-term well being, then it's a failed system and intervention is needed.  The subscription model seems like a fairly good idea that is bandied about but going nowhere yet.

[Dorian Grey]

So on your quercetin and zinc what are the max doses you are planning to take on a daily basis?

 

Almost all the quercetin I've seen comes 500mg/cap.  I've never been a fan of mega-dosing anything, so this would be my dose.  

 

Keep in mind, green tea is also rich in quercetin, besides the EGCG.  

[Daniel Cooper]

I'm thinking the French may have used Azithromycin simply as insurance against bacterial complication, & because they had success, everyone want's to follow their protocol.  

 

Haven't really seen the mechanism on how this might actually effect COVID response.  

 

 

Azythromycin has been individually tested and shown to have anti-viral activity against various ooronaviruses.  It's in one of the papers that I posted pages back.  The one that is the big survey of what existing drugs and natural compounds have anti-viral properties.  So they may have been going for some synergy with hydroxychloroquine. 

 

It would make sense to try those together.  Since these are drugs, they are known to be very bioavailable, as opposed to some natural compounds like quercetin which may work in vitro but have availability issues.  And since they've been around forever and are long off patent, they are manufactured in a number of facilities worldwide so availability already exists to a significant extent and there is the potential to dramatically ramp production very rapidly, as opposed to something like remdesivir which everyone was so excited about early on which isn't in any sort of volume production anywhere and really isn't even an approved drug yet.  Even if that drug works marvelously it's going to take 6 to 12 months to get it into very high volume production.

[lancebr]

 

One of the references on that page is to Possible inhibitors of ACE2, the receptor of 2019-nCoV, which includes some evidence that Andrographis, Urtica, and Sambucus all decrease ACE2 expression:

 

 

This disappoints me. I want to take those, but I preferred the theory that ACE2 was good. 

 

 

Dr. Anthony Fauci did an interview and he mentioned that based upon information concerning Italy's

fatalities from the virus, that 99% of those fatalities had an underlying condition.  Of those 99% around 75%

had the underlying condition of hypertension.  He said that since it was known that these patients had hypertension

then it would be assumed they were being treated for that by a physician with some type of medication.

 

He said that from all of the underlying conditions why is it that hypertension shows to be the greatest problem

with fatalities of this virus.  He did seem to be concerned about the treatment for hypertension causing this issue.

 

Since treatment for hypertension usually up-regulates ACE2 then maybe down-regulating ACE2 is the way to go

and taking those supplements will help.

 

 

[Mind]

Managed to find some more details. Turns out he was using zinc and Z pak. (I still don't like the latter, but nevermind.)

 

Watch this repost before it disappears. Take notes. Let's not get into a political or religious discussion. Stick to the science.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=euZQkdJzQ_o

 

Read before it disappears:

 

https://uslibertywir...ero-intubations

 

https://forward.com/...ne-trump-doctor

 

He says:

 

"My out-patient treatment regimen is as follows:

Hydroxychloroquine 200mg twice a day for 5 days

Azithromycin 500mg once a day for 5 days

Zinc sulfate 220mg once a day for 5 days"

 

Zelenko's video was released a few days ago already. It would be nice to get an update, but I read he is under pressure to not talk about it anymore (from other mainstream practitioners).

 

Daniel Cooper is correct. Without knowing the demographic make-up and health conditions of his patients, 350 is not a large enough sample size. First of all, 4 out of 5 are going to be fine anyway. So that potentially knocks out 280 people that might not have really benefited from the treatment. Potentially knock another 30% out for the placebo effect. That brings the legit sample size down close to zero, certainly below statistical significance.

 

Still, I am enamored with the zinc discussion presented in this thread. There seems to be good reason to include it in the treatment.

 

Like I mentioned previously, based upon the Chinese hypokalemia study, I wonder if the protocol could be improved by the addition of potassium.

 

Hydroxycloroquine +Azithromycin + zinc + potassium. (all cheap with known minimal side effects).

 

I am unsure if hroxychloroquine will be all that effective by itself. It has been around for decades, and up until this point, I have never read of it being a guaranteed blockbuster anti-viral drug, just it showing "some" effectiveness in treating a handful of infectious diseases.

[thompson92]

I read it was 30 total.  15 test & 15 control.  Sorry I don't have the link.  

 

From what I gleaned all survived and cleared the virus promptly  (mild disease?) and the 15 control group cleared the virus 1 day earlier on average than the test group did.  

 

Big Pharma is desperately trying to avoid a cheap generic being the solution to COVID.  They all want an expensive new drug and vaccine.  

 

You are correct.  This is too small a study to learn anything from, unless the results were diametrically opposed in each group.  And we don't know how sick these patients were when they were all put into the study or how this was organized without being able to read the Chinese methods section.

[Daniel Cooper]

My only question is should you supplement or try to get more potassium in your diet prophylactically. Since it appears that being infected with the virus washes out potassium through the kidneys it's not clear to me that additional potassium before infection will help.

 

On the other hand, the western diet tends to be low in potassium, so taking an extra 500 ~ 1000 mg probably isn't going to hurt anything unless you're one of the very few people with hyperkalemia.  It's very cheap, it's low risk, so why not?

 

 

[Daniel Cooper]

Don't know if this clinical trial has been posted.  If not:
 
Vitamin C Infusion for the Treatment of Severe 2019-nCoV Infected Pneumonia

[xEva]

Zelenko's video was released a few days ago already. It would be nice to get an update, but I read he is under pressure to not talk about it anymore (from other mainstream practitioners).

 

Daniel Cooper is correct. Without knowing the demographic make-up and health conditions of his patients, 350 is not a large enough sample size. First of all, 4 out of 5 are going to be fine anyway. So that potentially knocks out 280 people that might not have really benefited from the treatment. Potentially knock another 30% out for the placebo effect. That brings the legit sample size down close to zero, certainly below statistical significance.

 

Still, I am enamored with the zinc discussion presented in this thread. There seems to be good reason to include it in the treatment.

 

Like I mentioned previously, based upon the Chinese hypokalemia study, I wonder if the protocol could be improved by the addition of potassium.

 

Hydroxycloroquine +Azithromycin + zinc + potassium. (all cheap with known minimal side effects).

 

I am unsure if hroxychloroquine will be all that effective by itself. It has been around for decades, and up until this point, I have never read of it being a guaranteed blockbuster anti-viral drug, just it showing "some" effectiveness in treating a handful of infectious diseases.

 

Also, adequate potassium levels should counteract the elongation of QT interval (just google potassium and long QT syndrome). though I'd be careful not to overdose it. The other mineral is magnesium:

 

Causes and management of drug-induced long QT syndrome, 2010
 

[xEva]

My only question is should you supplement or try to get more potassium in your diet prophylactically. Since it appears that being infected with the virus washes out potassium through the kidneys it's not clear to me that additional potassium before infection will help.

 

On the other hand, the western diet tends to be low in potassium, so taking an extra 500 ~ 1000 mg probably isn't going to hurt anything unless you're one of the very few people with hyperkalemia.  It's very cheap, it's low risk, so why not?

 

i would not overdose on potassium, certainly not as a preventative measure. google hyperkalemia:

 

If hyperkalemia comes on suddenly and you have very high levels of potassium, you may feel heart palpitations, shortness of breath, chest pain, nausea, or vomiting. Sudden or severe hyperkalemia is a life-threatening condition. It requires immediate medical care.

What is Hyperkalemia? | National Kidney Foundation