3083 replies to this topic

[zorba990]

Would raw egg whites suffice ?

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/9117993/

Avian egg whites are a rich source of protein inhibitors of proteinases belonging to all four mechanistic classes. Ovomucoid and ovoinhibitor are multidomain Kazal-type inhibitors with each domain containing an actual or putative reactive site for a serine proteinase. Cystatin is a cysteine proteinase inhibitor, while ovostatin inhibits proteinases of all four mechanistic classes. In this review we have summarized the general features, isolation, inhibitory mechanism and evolutionary aspects of these inhibitors.

[ta5]

In this video, from min 1:10 on, there is an animation explaining the idea called to be tested:

 

3:17:

But, this is when the cell starts doing something very clever. It produces nitric oxide, NO, an event which is a turning point in the immune response. NO activates a sibling of AT1R, the angiotensin type 2 receptor, AT2R. It's function is to reduce inflammation.

 

Mallinckrodt Evaluates the Potential Role for Inhaled Nitric Oxide to Treat COVID-19 Associated Lung Complications, Engages with Scientific, Governmental and Regulatory Agencies

 

Mallinckrodt soars on chances of inhaled nitric oxide for COVID-19-associated lung complications

 

But, this was tried and failed in influenza previously:

Inhaled Nitric Oxide Therapy Fails to Improve Outcome in Experimental Severe Influenza

 

5:32:

But, there's another difference with a dire consequence. The NO, instead of activating anti-inflammatory mechanisms, reacts with superoxide that the cell produces as part of its stress response. As a result, SARS-Cov-2 binding and infection proceeds as before, the cell fails to reach immune homeostasis and there is no priming of adaptive immunity. AngII activity increases unrestrained. Severe Covid 19 infections can be seen as Angiotensin 2 poisoning.

 

It sounds like the real problem is O2. In that case, it seems like they should try injecting Superoxide Dismutase (SOD) or taking other superoxide or ROS scaveners, plus Minoxidil or other nitric oxide boosters.

[p75213]

Hydroxychloroquin has less side effects than chloroquine and is being used in Korea.
http://m.koreabiomed...html?idxno=7428

[HBRU]

https://www.woltersk...n-and-omega-3s/

[pamojja]

That ulinastatin is sold only in China, Japan and India. It's an injectable. I found some in Indian online pharmacies. All prices are in rupees, so I doubt they'll ship to the US.

 

What an irony. If I had the information 11 days ago before leaving India, I would have just bought some.

[Mind]

So is it correct to assume that we should not be taking any ibuprofen with this virus?

 

Also, I wonder what effect aspirin, Tylenol or Naproxene has on this virus...good or bad.
 

Because once poeple catch this and self-medicate at home a lot will use different pain killers

so wold be nice to know which are safe and which are not for this virus.

 

What I have found is that I need the self-medication at home for when I sleep. Sleep is a powerful rejuvenation factor. If I have a cold or flu with a cough, or sore throat, runny nose, etc... I don't get much sleep - unless I take the cold medication. Even if the cold medication interferes with immune function a bit, the benefits from a good night's sleep far outweigh the negatives, from my experience.

 

I don't take cold medication during the day, only at night.

[pamojja]

Since I failed to get tested with symptoms of a severe cold after coming back from vacations in India. I considered the instruction of titrating to bowel-tolerance also useful for possibly being diagnostic. For example: if reached that for severe pneumonia (ie. 200+ g/d of ascorbic acid). - My 'normal' bowel-tolerance is at 50 g/d (probably due to hayfever).

 

I failed badly to even reach my bowel-tolerance after 6 days of trying. Taking a teaspoon of ascorbic acid in water every 20 minutes is really challenging, even for me who used the last 11 years in average 24 g/d of ascorbic acid as part of Pauling's therapy. The most I got to was 62 g one day (in avg. 54 g/d the last 6 days) - still without any liquid stool. But I will keep on trying. By now I'm certain I 'only' got a severe cold, seemingly confirmed by the table in above linked bowel-tolerance article. And guess I anyway would have mentioned a viral pneumonia by now.

 

However, that high doses have kept all symptoms of my severe cold at bay for the last 6 days. Less the few hours I was out and about, and missed the doeses for those times. Starting to cough again. And my sleep is excellent at the moment.

[Dorian Grey]

Adequate sleep & stress avoidance can dramatically effect immune efficiency, at least when it comes to the common cold.  I haven't had a single cold since I retired 18 months ago, even while living with someone who's had several.  My girlfriend is always amazed at how I seem to be bullet proof while she's suffering.  

 

When I was working, I'd always take time off at the first sign of a cold, & typically would kick it in 3 days.  My X-wife would always drag herself into work to prove to everyone she really was sick, and her colds invariably wound up going down into her chest, with dreadful consequences.  Typically a month of coughing.  

 

Last time I had a really bad cold that went down into my chest, I had been talked into getting the flu shot at work.  I was sick within 10 days and didn't recover for a month. NEVERMORE!  

 

Increased Risk of Noninfluenza Respiratory Virus Infections Associated With Receipt of Inactivated Influenza Vaccine

 

"We randomized 115 children to trivalent inactivated influenza vaccine (TIV) or placebo. Over the following 9 months, TIV recipients had an increased risk of virologically confirmed non-influenza infections (relative risk: 4.40; 95% confidence interval: 1.31-14.8). Being protected against influenza, TIV recipients may lack temporary non-specific immunity that protected against other respiratory viruses".

 

A shame it doesn't work better at preventing the flu.

[Izan]

 lithium a potential treatment for the novel Wuhan (2019-nCoV) coronavirus?

 

 

 

https://f1000researc...ableGateways=23

 

 

[Dorian Grey]

Ben Neuman PhD, head of the biology department at Texas A&M University-Texarkana is a researcher who has worked with coronaviruses for 24 years.  He believes initial T-Cell response is key to whether COVID will resolve well, or progress to advanced disease.  

 

https://money.yahoo....-183000456.html

 

"In people who survive infections with coronaviruses and do well, if you check their blood afterward, as we found with SARS, you find out that they have a really good killer T cell response. And the ones who don't do well did not really make a killer T cell response.”

 

Again, those who've gotten the flu shot may be more likely to experience a failure to respond & recover.  

 

Evidence That Blunted CD4 T-Cell Responses Underlie Deficient Protective Antibody Responses to Influenza Vaccines in Repeatedly Vaccinated Human Subjects

 

“Despite the benefits of yearly influenza vaccination, accumulating evidence suggests that diminished vaccine efficacy may be related to repeated vaccination.” “We find a striking disparity in their responses, with previously vaccinated subjects exhibiting significantly blunted CD4 T-cell responses and diminished antibody responses.”

Edited by Dorian Grey, 15 March 2020 - 03:42 PM.

[Izan]

Ben Neuman PhD, head of the biology department at Texas A&M University-Texarkana is a researcher who has worked with coronaviruses for 24 years.  He believes initial T-Cell response is key to whether COVID will resolve well, or progress to advanced disease.  

 

https://money.yahoo....-183000456.html

 

"In people who survive infections with coronaviruses and do well, if you check their blood afterward, as we found with SARS, you find out that they have a really good killer T cell response. And the ones who don't do well did not really make a killer T cell response.”

 

Again, those who've gotten the flu shot may be more likely to experience a failure to respond & recover.  

 

Evidence That Blunted CD4 T-Cell Responses Underlie Deficient Protective Antibody Responses to Influenza Vaccines in Repeatedly Vaccinated Human Subjects

 

“Despite the benefits of yearly influenza vaccination, accumulating evidence suggests that diminished vaccine efficacy may be related to repeated vaccination.” “We find a striking disparity in their responses, with previously vaccinated subjects exhibiting significantly blunted CD4 T-cell responses and diminished antibody responses.”

So Lactoferrin?

[Izan]

Dorian, check this:

 

Dysregulation of immune response in patients with COVID-19 in Wuhan, China.

Qin C, et al. Clin Infect Dis. 2020.

Show full citation

Abstract

BACKGROUND: In December 2019, coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) emerged in Wuhan and rapidly spread throughout China.

METHODS: Demographic and clinical data of all confirmed cases with COVID-19 on admission at Tongji Hospital from January 10 to February 12, 2020, were collected and analyzed. The data of laboratory examinations, including peripheral lymphocyte subsets, were analyzed and compared between severe and non-severe patients.

RESULTS: Of the 452 patients with COVID-19 recruited, 286 were diagnosed as severe infection. The median age was 58 years and 235 were male. The most common symptoms were fever, shortness of breath, expectoration, fatigue, dry cough and myalgia. Severe cases tend to have lower lymphocytes counts, higher leukocytes counts and neutrophil-lymphocyte-ratio (NLR), as well as lower percentages of monocytes, eosinophils, and basophils. Most of severe cases demonstrated elevated levels of infection-related biomarkers and inflammatory cytokines. The number of T cells significantly decreased, and more hampered in severe cases. Both helper T cells and suppressor T cells in patients with COVID-19 were below normal levels, and lower level of helper T cells in severe group. The percentage of naïve helper T cells increased and memory helper T cells decreased in severe cases. Patients with COVID-19 also have lower level of regulatory T cells, and more obviously damaged in severe cases.

CONCLUSIONS: The novel coronavirus might mainly act on lymphocytes, especially T lymphocytes. Surveillance of NLR and lymphocyte subsets is helpful in the early screening of critical illness, diagnosis and treatment of COVID-19.

 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...ubmed/32161940/

[Izan]

The novel coronavirus might mainly act on lymphocytes, especially T lymphocytes

 

 

T lymphocytes develop in the thymus gland.

 

And who has fully intact thymus glands?

 

Children!

[Dorian Grey]

So Lactoferrin?

 

Mine is in the post.  Life Extension had in stock.  Not cheap though...  $45 for 60 caps.  

 

Don't know if I should save this and take at first sign of infection, or start on one per day as soon as it arrives.  

 

Any thoughts?  

[Oakman]

Mine is in the post.  Life Extension had in stock.  Not cheap though...  $45 for 60 caps.  

 

Don't know if I should save this and take at first sign of infection, or start on one per day as soon as it arrives.  

 

Any thoughts?  

 

Seems readily available. I bought these two, 1st - Lactoferrin 60 caps 300 mg ~$20, 2nd Colostrum 120 caps ~$20

 

https://www.amazon.c...0?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

https://www.amazon.c...0?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

IMO LE is always too $$.

[lancebr]

Mine is in the post.  Life Extension had in stock.  Not cheap though...  $45 for 60 caps.  

 

Don't know if I should save this and take at first sign of infection, or start on one per day as soon as it arrives.  

 

Any thoughts?  

 

I have started taking whey protein and giving it to my family.  It has lactoferrin in it and there

are other studies that whey protein has other substances that help the immune system.

[shp5]

I am giving my aged relatives Dr. Best Cordyceps, Zinc & Vitamin C, depending on their compliance. Together with the advice to sleep as much as possible, and to limit exposure, showing them the age structure of deceased corona victims in Italy.

[lancebr]

I am giving my aged relatives Dr. Best Cordyceps, Zinc & Vitamin C, depending on their compliance. Together with the advice to sleep as much as possible, and to limit exposure, showing them the age structure of deceased corona victims in Italy.

 

I am making sure that my older relatives are also getting zinc, vitamin c, and vitamin D. There are a lot of studies that

show how important vitamin D is for good immune response.  And since a lot of elderly people are not as mobile as

younger people they tend to stay in more and have lower vitamin D amounts in their body.

[lancebr]

Seems readily available. I bought these two, 1st - Lactoferrin 60 caps 300 mg ~$20, 2nd Colostrum 120 caps ~$20

 

https://www.amazon.c...0?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

https://www.amazon.c...0?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

IMO LE is always too $$.

 

Is there anything showing that Colostrum is good for fighting this virus?

 

Thanks

[Izan]

Is there anything showing that Colostrum is good for fighting this virus?

 

Thanks

 

Because of the Lactoferrin in the Colostrum!!

[Izan]

Mine is in the post.  Life Extension had in stock.  Not cheap though...  $45 for 60 caps.  

 

Don't know if I should save this and take at first sign of infection, or start on one per day as soon as it arrives.  

 

Any thoughts?  

 

Perhaps Mr Matsubayashi could chime in to answer this question? He seems to know a lot about Lactoferrin.

[lancebr]

Mine is in the post.  Life Extension had in stock.  Not cheap though...  $45 for 60 caps.  

 

Don't know if I should save this and take at first sign of infection, or start on one per day as soon as it arrives.  

 

Any thoughts?  

 

Do you have any concerns about the fact that lactoferrin appears to raise iron in the body?

 

"Lactoferrin has been shown in clinical research to be more bioavailable, increasing serum

ferritin levels 5.8 times which allows for a more efficient absorption of iron"
 

[Mr Matsubayashi]

Haha. I don't have a medical background, my personal experience with LF is that if cold/flu symptoms are hitting me hard i'll start taking two at nighttime. Usually I feel somewhat better the next day and a lot better the day after. I find I need to keep taking it for a week or so otherwise I will feel crap again which might relate to the time needed for my body to build its own defences. I first tried this when I was struck down by a flu and had half a bottle of LF laying around. The study suggests outcomes are dose dependent so in the case of corona i'd start with my usual 2x 250mg at night and add a daily dose if not effective. A side effect I notice is feeling warmer and emotionally flat. 

 

I'm not taking it preventatively because my demographic is not at risk, its expensive, makes me emotionally flat, and when supplemented seems to work relatively fast. Each to their own. 

 

All of this should be taken with a grain of salt. My anecdote is weaksauce data, the studies done on LF (and most integrative treatments) are not at a level of power that would permit a medical system to recommend them for flu, and something in the makeup of COVID-19 might be very different to SARS rendering LF ineffective. 

 

 

Edited by Mr Matsubayashi, 16 March 2020 - 12:17 AM.

[Oakman]

Is there anything showing that Colostrum is good for fighting this virus?

 

Thanks

 

 

Because of the Lactoferrin in the Colostrum!!

 

Because we are discussing Lactoferrin

 

https://www.webmd.co...-49/lactoferrin

 

and as far as viruses

 

https://www.sovereig...off-infections/

Edited by Oakman, 16 March 2020 - 12:34 AM.

[Mr Matsubayashi]

There seems to be a lot more in Colostrum than just LF. I'm going to grab some powdered at the local chemist. I just grabbed the sexy bits out of each study so please check the links and make up your own mind. 

 

Prevention of influenza episodes with colostrum compared with vaccination in healthy and high-risk cardiovascular subjects: the epidemiologic study in San Valentino.

 "After 3 months of follow-up, the number of days with flu was 3 times higher in the non-colostrum subjects. The incidence of complications and hospital admission was higher in the group that received only a vaccination compared with the colostrum groups. Colostrum, both in healthy subjects and high-risk cardiovascular patients, is at least 3 times more effective than vaccination to prevent flu and is very cost-effective."

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/17456621

https://journals.sag...076029606295957

 

Prevention and Treatment of Influenza with Hyperimmune Bovine Colostrum Antibody

"Passive transfer of specific antibody (Ab) may provide a useful means of preventing or treating disease in unvaccinated individuals or those failing to adequately seroconvert, especially now that resistance to antiviral drugs is on the rise. These data suggest that a novel and commercially-scalable technique for preparing Ab from hyperimmune bovine colostrum could allow production of a valuable substitute for antiviral drugs to control influenza with the advantage of eliminating the need for daily administration. When the Ab preparations were given 3 days before infection (Fig. 7A and C), anti-PR8 IgG or F(ab')2-treated mice not only survived (Lethal dose) but maintained their bodyweights"

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC2964324/

 

Effects of bovine colostrum on recurrent respiratory tract infections and diarrhea in children

One hundred sixty children (aged 1–6 years) having recurrent episodes of URTI or diarrhea received BC for 4 weeks.  The mean (± SD) total number of URTI (P < 0.0001), number of episodes of diarrhea (P < 0.001), and number of hospital admissions (P < 0.001) were significantly decreased after BC therapy

https://journals.lww...ecurrent.9.aspx

 

Prevention of flu episodes with colostrum and Bifivir compared with vaccination: an epidemiological, registry study.

"The number of episodes registered with the immunnomodulators was significantly lower than those observed in patients using vaccination or no prevention (P<0.05). The number of days of disease was higher in untreated controls compared to the groups treated with immunomodulators (P<0.05) and 2 times higher in the vaccination group compared to the same groups (P<0.05). The average relative costs were significantly lower (2.3 times) in the immunomodulators groups in comparison with the other groups (P<0.05). No problems concerning tolerability or side effects were observed during the study."

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/21183886

 

 

 

Check out Table 4 here:

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC6024018/

Edited by Mr Matsubayashi, 16 March 2020 - 12:49 AM.

[Dorian Grey]

Do you have any concerns about the fact that lactoferrin appears to raise iron in the body?

 

"Lactoferrin has been shown in clinical research to be more bioavailable, increasing serum

ferritin levels 5.8 times which allows for a more efficient absorption of iron"
 

 

Any port in a storm...  Risk vs Reward.  Ben Neuman's opinion (from my post above) about T-cell response being the Holy Grail for recovery in the original SARS outbreak of 2002/2003 is impressive & seems logical.  Early recognition and action against a new pathogen certainly sounds to me like this would help to avoid the advanced disease and make for a good recovery.  

 

I've kept my iron quite low (through blood donation) for many years, so I reckon I've got some reserve storage capacity to weather this storm.  

 

iherb still has lactoferrin available.  Just ordered 2 more of their Jarrow brand LF.

[lancebr]

Any port in a storm...  Risk vs Reward.  Ben Neuman's opinion (from my post above) about T-cell response being the Holy Grail for recovery in the original SARS outbreak of 2002/2003 is impressive & seems logical.  Early recognition and action against a new pathogen certainly sounds to me like this would help to avoid the advanced disease and make for a good recovery.  

 

I've kept my iron quite low (through blood donation) for many years, so I reckon I've got some reserve storage capacity to weather this storm.  

 

iherb still has lactoferrin available.  Just ordered 2 more of their Jarrow brand LF.

 

So are you planning to take it as a preventative before you might catch something or wait until you feel like

you might have caught something?

 

 

And what dosages are recommended for something like this?

Edited by lancebr, 16 March 2020 - 01:59 AM.

[Dorian Grey]

I plan on taking one cap per day (250mg) starting as soon as it arrives.  I always prefer low doses and would rather err on the low side than possibly bugger things up with too much.  Immune modulation isn't something I'd like to be too cavalier about.  

 

Don't know if I might adjust this if I get sick.  Haven't seen the recommended daily max yet.  

[Mr Matsubayashi]

Based on this review, LF is not absorbed by adults. It does have some immune improving effects but not from LF in blood. The awesome study showing it kicking SARS ass probably doesn't apply unless you're going to inject the stuff lol.... In which case you might as well use prescribed antivirals in a medical setting. LF is still helpful but not as awesome in practise. 

 

Protection against infections by oral lactoferrin: Evaluation in animal models

"These observations may be explained as follows. The barrier function of the intestinal tract is not fully developed in newborn animals, and in adult animals, the intestinal barrier function may be damaged by gut injuries such as those in experimental colitis."

"Regarding systemic immunity, we have observed an increase of leukocyte number, cytokine (IFN-γ , TNF-α, IL-12, and IL-18) production, and effector activity of macrophages in response to LF administration in several animal models. "

"we can conclude that neither orally administered bovine LF nor its large molecular fragments are absorbed from the intestines of normal adult rats. Thus, it may not be reasonable to think that LF fragments are absorbed from the intestine and exert protective effects at the site of infection."

https://sci-hub.tw/h...pubmed/15222470

 

 

[kurdishfella]

https://www.plenglis...al-for-covid-19

 

 

 

Costa Rica press spreads Cuba has antiviral for Covid-19

 

San Jose, Mar 13 (Prensa Latina) The Weekly University is highlighting on Friday in its digital version the development and production in Cuba of the antiviral Interferon Alfa 2B, which is used in China to treat those infected with the new Sars-CoV-2 coronavirus.

'Interferon Alpha 2B is not a vaccine but an antiviral drug that restores human defenses, it has been used by China to treat its patients and has generated purchase interest in some 15 countries in Latin America, Europe, Africa and Asia,' indicates the press release, stressed by the University Weekly.

The publication collects information from the French Press Agency (AFP), which states that Cuba has an antiviral to treat the new coronavirus Sars-Cov-2 and can export it.

With a photo from Radiorebelde.cu, the Weekly University explains that the drug was developed by the Cuban Center for Genetic Engineering and Biotechnology (CIGB), according to Cuban doctors.

The president of the State industrial group BioCubaFarma Eduardo Martinez indicated that the Chinese pharmaceutical association recommended 'to use interferon as the first product of antiviral action to combat the new coronavirus, within thirty retroviral options,' and said that in addition to Cuba, the drug is manufactured by a joint venture in China, which facilitated its availability in that country.

Meanwhile, CIGB's director Eulogio Pimentel pointed out 'We have an inventory of Interferon, of finished product, for cases that could appear in Cuba up to three to six months from now. And in process, we have equivalent inventory to treat all the infected that occurred in China.'

CIGB's vice president Marta Ayala recalled that in outbreaks of other coronaviruses and SARS, interferons were used for prevention and treatment, which - she specified - are molecules that the body itself produces in the face of viral attacks. It is a natural first defense of the immune system to combat the entry of the virus and inhibit it.'

The actual active ingredient for a drug for acute treatment and prophylactic application, is already known to medical scientists around the world as GAMMA-INTERFERON.

This substance GAMMA-INTERFERON must now only be isolated by the responsible specialists and separated from the corresponding products, which contain this high-quality defence substance against pathogens, in order to then process it into a corresponding medicine, which can be administered to humans.The substance GAMMA-INTERFERON is a natural product of chemical transformation, e.g. when milk is converted to YOGURT or KEFIR. So it is only necessary that the GAMMA-INTERFERON is removed from the mentioned products and converted into a drug.this GAMMA-INTERFERON is practically the same antidote or anti-substance against pathogens as it is produced by the human immune system itself.it also works in the same way as the natural products in terms of antibodies and defences of the human immune system.

The effect is even better if the drug is taken in larger controlled and appropriate amounts. It is able to prevent almost any disease and to nip it in the bud, even cancer of any kind, because when taken and used in appropriate quantities, it is able to destroy even the most persistent viruses, not to mention less resistant pathogens.

the high consumption of pure yogurt or kefir is the only benefit as of now.

Edited by kurdishfella, 16 March 2020 - 08:55 AM.