40 replies to this topic

[MikeDC]

High levels of NAD+ is required to maintain immune homeostasis. If you have low levels of NAD+, your immune system can easily get out of control and creates too much inflammatory cytokines and cause sepsis. Mice studies with NR and NAM have shown very significant protective effects against cytokines storm. Coronavirus fatality data correlated perfectly with NAD+ levels. Fatalities increases with age. 0-9 year old has zero fatalities so far and 80 plus has the highest. NAD+ precursors works best when they are taken before or at the early stages of infection.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...ubmed/29803807/

[Phoebus]

 

 

Coronavirus fatality data correlated perfectly with NAD+ levels.

 

 

where is this info coming from? 

[Rays]

IMO, it's the same as saying: Coronavirus fatality data correlates perfectly with wrinkled skin.

 

[Turnbuckle]

where is this info coming from? 

 

 

He just made it up.

[Oakman]

He just made it up.

 

It's perfectly apt naming. Have you studied or read about the progression of disease that is CV? The progression is that there is an initial infection like the flu. But in those at most risk, even after hospitalization in intensive care, the virus attacks the lung cells, bursting them and resulting in an immune response that results in severe pneumonia. The heart muscle is attacked as well due to toxins in the blood, resulting in heart failure (and likely death). 

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=Q0A0LyMru3I

 

AIMS: Sepsis-caused multiple organ failure remains the major cause of morbidity and mortality in intensive care units. Nicotinamide riboside (NR) is a precursor of nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD+), which is important in regulating oxidative stress. This study investigated whether administration of NR prevented oxidative stress and organ injury in sepsis.

 

CONCLUSIONS: Administration of NR prevents lung and heart injury, and improves the survival in sepsis, likely by inhibiting HMGB1 release and oxidative stress via the NAD+/SIRT1 signaling. Given NR has been used as a health supplement, it may be a useful agent to prevent organ injury in sepsis.

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If you are not preparing at least a modicum of respiratory and general immune reinforcement for your own health, you and those around you could be at risk in the future. The CV virus is not something that is going away. It is destined to become a community disease, one that will be with us from here on out, due to the nature of how communicable it is in the real world. Preparation is the best defense.

Edited by Oakman, 24 February 2020 - 06:21 PM.

[MikeDC]

where is this info coming from?

NAD+ goes down with age. Coronavirus death rate goes up with age.
One might say it correlate with immune system. But young people have better immune system than infants and their death rate is higher.

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[Turnbuckle]

It's perfectly apt naming. Have you studied or read about the progression of disease that is CV? The progression is that there is an initial infection like the flu. But in those at most risk, even after hospitalization in intensive care, the virus attacks the lung cells, bursting them and resulting in an immune response that results in severe pneumonia. The heart muscle is attacked as well due to toxins in the blood, resulting in heart failure (and likely death). 

 

AIMS: Sepsis-caused multiple organ failure remains the major cause of morbidity and mortality in intensive care units. Nicotinamide riboside (NR) is a precursor of nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD+), which is important in regulating oxidative stress. This study investigated whether administration of NR prevented oxidative stress and organ injury in sepsis.

 

CONCLUSIONS: Administration of NR prevents lung and heart injury, and improves the survival in sepsis, likely by inhibiting HMGB1 release and oxidative stress via the NAD+/SIRT1 signaling. Given NR has been used as a health supplement, it may be a useful agent to prevent organ injury in sepsis.

--------

If you are not preparing at least a modicum of respiratory and general immune reinforcement for your own health, you and those around you could be at risk in the future. The CV virus is not something that is going away. It is destined to become a community disease, one that will be with us from here on out, due to the nature of how communicable it is in the real world. Preparation is the best defense.

 

 

Viruses typically replicate inside a cell and spread by stimulating apoptosis. This is also true for coronavirus: Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus Triggers Apoptosis

 

Mitochondrial fission is typically necessary for apoptosis:

 

The rate of fission increases markedly when cells become committed to apoptosis; apoptotic stimuli such as DNA injury, UV radiation, endoplasmic reticulum (ER) stress, oxygen radicals, or cytokine withdrawal trigger extensive mitochondrial fission accompanied by cristae disorganization and permeabilization of the mitochondrial outer membrane (MOMP), which in turn induces the release of IMS-stored proapoptotic factors, such as cytochrome , to trigger the apoptosis program.

https://www.hindawi....cb/2012/821676/

 

 

Raising the NAD+/NADH ratio also increases fission: 

 

The [NAD+]/[NADH] ratio was inversely correlated with the mitochondrial content, and an increase in the ratio by the mobilization of the malate-aspartate shuttle resulted in autophagy activation and mitochondrial transformation from lengthy filaments to short dots.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3365962/

 

 

 

Thus it is likely that increasing mito fission with NAD+ supplements will increase the speed of viral infection, whereas increasing mito fusion may well slow down the infection, giving the immune system more time to mount a defense.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 24 February 2020 - 06:30 PM.

[Phoebus]

 

 

CONCLUSIONS: Administration of NR prevents lung and heart injury, and improves the survival in sepsis, likely by inhibiting HMGB1 release and oxidative stress via the NAD+/SIRT1 signaling. Given NR has been used as a health supplement, it may be a useful agent to prevent organ injury in sepsis.

 

 

 

IN MICE 

 

which is nice and all, but soooo many mice studies quoted on this forum as if they perfectly apply to humans when they usually do not. 

NAD+ goes down with age. Coronavirus death rate goes up with age.
One might say it correlate with immune system. But young people have better immune system than infants and their death rate is higher.

 

 

This one dude this one time said "correlation does not equal causation" 

[MikeDC]

Viruses typically replicate inside a cell and spread by stimulating apoptosis. This is also true for coronavirus: Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus Triggers Apoptosis

Mitochondrial fission is typically necessary for apoptosis:


Raising the NAD+/NADH ratio also increases fission:



Thus it is likely that increasing mito fission with NAD+ supplements will increase the speed of viral infection, whereas increasing mito fusion may well slow down the infection, giving the immune system more time to mount a defense.

You are making things up. The paper didn’t reach any meaningful conclusions. Also NAD+ does not lead to more fission.

[Daniel Cooper]

NAD+ goes down with age. Coronavirus death rate goes up with age.
One might say it correlate with immune system. But young people have better immune system than infants and their death rate is higher.

 

Post hoc ergo propter hoc

[Harkijn]

Yes, but be sure to take your NR!

[joesixpack]

Post hoc ergo propter hoc

 

Well for what it is worth, I came across a non scientific article written by a market research company on Chromadex, and TruNiagen.

 

The author basically says that there are indications that NR may help the immune system and if that turns out to be true, it would have a positive impact on Chromadex stock price.

 

I am not saying the author is right or wrong, just putting it here for information purposes. 

 

https://nysenewstime...mbat-the-virus/

[Daniel Cooper]

Well for what it is worth, I came across a non scientific article written by a market research company on Chromadex, and TruNiagen.

 

The author basically says that there are indications that NR may help the immune system and if that turns out to be true, it would have a positive impact on Chromadex stock price.

 

I am not saying the author is right or wrong, just putting it here for information purposes. 

 

https://nysenewstime...mbat-the-virus/

 

The problem is that so many things change and decline with age. You could probably name a dozen different aspects of body chemistry that decline or change without breaking a sweat.  Growth hormone decreases with age.  Does that mean that taking growth hormone will help fight off covid-19?  Of course not.

 

You can't say that because X occurs before Y therefore X causes Y.

 

This wouldn't be so egregious if MikeDC didn't have a well known financial interest in Chromadex which makes these sorts of logical fallacies appear to be self serving.

[Harkijn]

Any remark or thread posted by MikeDC elicits a round of MikeDCbashing and he has got himself to thank for it.

 

However, the link he posted is a useful and correct one. Let's be serious here guys: corona is coming and there is only a limited number of things doctors can do for us.

 

About NAD+: it is the basic energy currency of the body. Ask Brenner or Sinclair: if you're really sick and your NAD gets totally depleted you're a goner.  So keep your precursor at hand,whichever one you prefer.

Does this mean that precursors  or NAD directly  attack viruses? No,of course not but MikeDC did not claim that, though he should have been clearer and more specific about that.

[kurdishfella]

Having high mitochondria will probably worse the virus because it is dependent on oxygen to replicate. The virus attacks your thyroid to disrupt your metabolism in order for your immune system to become dysfunctional. So I would take thyroid hormones together with a lot of yogurt or kefir daily for immune boost.

Edited by kurdishfella, 18 March 2020 - 05:38 PM.

[MikeDC]

One slide from ChromaDex’s presentation. A study will be published soon on the effect of NR on
Viral replication and cell survival. This data shows NAD+ is reduced by 80% in Virus infected cells.

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[MikeDC]

https://twitter.com/...3581736961?s=21

NAD+ is reduced by 3 fold after Coronavirus infection. NR and NAM converting genes are up regulated.

Edited by MikeDC, 19 April 2020 - 11:13 AM.

[MikeDC]

Though the focus of this preclinical work is prevention, we note that innate immune responses to CoV infection, like other inflammatory responses, are potentially pathological if infection is not controlled. COVID-19 patients with acute respiratory distress syndrome experience a cytokine storm that features high level circulation of inflammatory cytokines (Mehta et al., 2020). Interestingly, in a small placebo-controlled clinical trial designed to address the oral safety and activity of Niagen NR in older men, it was discovered that 1 gram of NR per day depresses levels of IL-6, IL-5, IL-2 and tumor necrosis factor alpha (Elhassan et al., 2019), suggesting the possibility that Niagen and other NAD boosters may also be tested for safety, control of cytokine storm, and modulation of COVID-19 disease in patients.

[joesixpack]

Here is an article on the subject that you might find to be of interest. https://www.nutritio...e-nad-synthesis

[able]

Elderly coronavirus patients should be given anti-ageing drugs to make their immune systems 'younger' so they can fight the virus faster, scientists claim

 

•  As a person ages, their immune system becomes suppressed and slower
• It gives the killer coronavirus time to replicate and cause serious disease  
• But Harvard scientists say this could be fixed by with NAD boosters
• The drug would boost levels of NAD+, which naturally decline as we age 
• The relatively new supplement has not been studied extensively in humans 
• But the scientists claim they could alleviate COVID symptoms and prevent death
• Here’s how to help people impacted by Covid-19

 

Article in Daily Mail, about this review by Dr Sinclair:

 

Why Does COVID-19 Disproportionately Affect the Elderly?

 

 

[able]

Case study on NMN for Covid-19.

 

NMN shows great promise in case studies of humans with COVID-19

 

This case study (1) published April 20, 2020 by Dr. Robert Huizenga reports a remarkable clinical turnaround against COVID-19 upon providing an oral nicotinamide mononucleotide (NMN) cocktail to a COVID-19 positive patient who presented with such gravely elevated inflammation levels that a fatal outcome seemed eminent.

 

 

 

 

Case study here:

 

Dramatic Cytokine Storm Reversal with an Over the Counter NMN Cocktail⁽¹

[joesixpack]

Able,

 

Thanks for posting these articles. It appears that NAD+ boosters are getting some mainstream attention, I hope the attention continues.

[kurt9]

Viruses typically replicate inside a cell and spread by stimulating apoptosis. This is also true for coronavirus: Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus Triggers Apoptosis

 

Mitochondrial fission is typically necessary for apoptosis:

 

 

Raising the NAD+/NADH ratio also increases fission: 

 

 

 

Thus it is likely that increasing mito fission with NAD+ supplements will increase the speed of viral infection, whereas increasing mito fusion may well slow down the infection, giving the immune system more time to mount a defense.

 

Based on personal experience, I concur with this.

[Turnbuckle]

Based on personal experience, I concur with this.

 

 

Which part? Fission being bad, or fusion being good?

[MikeDC]

Based on personal experience, I concur with this.

Higher NAD+/NADH ratio actually favors fusion. Old people with lower NAD+ have mitochandria that are more fragmented which means more fission oriented.
Once a cell is infected, it’s fate is to die. Apotheosis is not a bad thing.

[kurt9]

Which part? Fission being bad, or fusion being good?

 

Both. That time in January, the fission made me feel like crap in a matter of hours and the fusion made me feel better in about a day.

 

It was a lesson for me, not to f**k around with fission in situations where I may have a virus.

Higher NAD+/NADH ratio actually favors fusion. Old people with lower NAD+ have mitochandria that are more fragmented which means more fission oriented.
Once a cell is infected, it’s fate is to die. Apotheosis is not a bad thing.

 

Turnbuckle's knowledge and my experience suggests the contrary.

[joesixpack]

Hi all, here is a multi question.

 

I am 70 and at risk for death from Covid 19. I take NR and Losartan. Both have had tests showing them to be protective of Covid 19. Apparent reduction in Ace2. I also smoke. Not a lot. 2 packs a week.

 

There are studies that indicate a protective property for smokers. Am I protected from the virus? Just looking for opinions, I realize that smoking is not an intuitive conclusion.

[MikeDC]

I don’t think anyone of the things you mentioned will prevent you from being infected. They might at best reduce the severity of the disease so you don’t get into ICU. Everyone over 60 should start taking NR to improve the immune system. Even if you don’t catch Coronavirus, it will still help to protect you from cold and flu.

[MikeDC]

In a cell culture study, NR and NAM are most effective at reducing viral load.

https://www.biorxiv.....04.17.047480v5

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[joesixpack]

In a cell culture study, NR and NAM are most effective at reducing viral load.

https://www.biorxiv.....04.17.047480v5

This is one of the studies that people that are following NR have been waiting for. I think I will continue to take NR.