120 replies to this topic

[zoolander]

I've had member make comments about taking Huperzine A. I use to take 400mcg as well. I've asked those making comments to refer me onto the so-called negative info but none have been able as yet. Hence, I'll keep monitor the peer-reviewed science, which at the moment, is looking good for huperzine A

[FunkOdyssey]

Are you still taking 400mcg of huperzine daily Shep? I was thinking about trying it but wanted to check in first and see if your head had exploded. And whats your take on vinpocetine? Do you feel that actually does anything for you or is that one of those items you throw in because it only costs $2 a month? I can't help but wonder if anything like vinpocetine and gingko that produce vasodilation in the brain will develop tolerance and begin to be compensated for with vasoconstriction. You see the opposite effect with caffeine, where the brain adjusts to the artificial vasoconstriction and you have a wicked vasodilation headache if you miss a dose.

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 12 May 2008 - 12:55 PM.

[ajnast4r]

I can't help but wonder if anything like vinpocetine and gingko that produce vasodilation in the brain will develop tolerance and begin to be compensated for with vasoconstriction.

im chiming in even though that wasnt directed at me... ive taken ginko(ginkgold) for up to a year at a time w/o any sort of tolerance building up as far as its effects on my cognition (which were excellent). i did however quit using ginko on a daily basis bc evidence (and my experience) point to it aggravating insulin resistance.

oddly vinpocetine (and only vinpocetine) improves hearing in my right ear, which was damaged by chronic ear infections / ear drum ruptures.

[Shepard]

Yeah, I still take the huperzine. On the vinpocetine/gingko issue, I haven't had any type of issues going off and on them. I can't nail any concrete benefits from using them, but the price and potential long-term benefits make me keep them. My eyesight seems to be consistently sharper for a little while after taking vinpocetine, but my astigmatism makes my eyesight kind of random.

[FunkOdyssey]

I'm going to try huperzine, and I have an old bottle of vinpocetine that I cracked open this morning. Didn't notice anything acute from the vinpocetine but I'm going to keep taking it and see what happens.

I'll keep an eye out for any supps that might be able to tame your crazy eye.

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 12 May 2008 - 05:43 PM.

[FunkOdyssey]

Why the extra 100mg of P5P in addition to the 100mg in the Ortho-Core? Anti-glycation properties?

[Shepard]

Why the extra 100mg of P5P in addition to the 100mg in the Ortho-Core? Anti-glycation properties?

I don't really have any special reason for using P5P over pyridoxine other than hoping to bypass any conversion inefficiencies. I just wanted some B6 in the morning to help overcome any increase in homocysteine from the SAMe and at night to help the tryptophan conversion.

Edited by shepard, 13 May 2008 - 02:19 AM.

[Shepard]

Regimen is now down to the following:

Lecithin
Fish Oil
Neptune Krill Oil
V8
Carrot Juice
Pomegranate Juice
Whey Powder
Ortho-Core
Vitamin E Complex
Vitamin D
Vitamin K
Creatine
Benfotiamine
Cissus
Glucosamine
MSM
Biosil
Folinic Acid
P5P
Vitamin C
Na-RALA

And my old sleep stack.

I'm back on an IF-ish diet so these are all taken randomly and usually at night.

Edited by shepard, 20 November 2008 - 06:53 PM.

[Centurion]

Regimen is now down to the following:

Lecithin
Fish Oil
Neptune Krill Oil
V8
Carrot Juice
Pomegranate Juice
Whey Powder
Ortho-Core
Vitamin E Complex
Vitamin D
Vitamin K
Creatine
Benfotiamine
Cissus
Glucosamine
MSM
Biosil
Folinic Acid
P5P
Vitamin C
Na-RALA

And my old sleep stack.

I'm back on an IF-ish diet so these are all taken randomly and usually at night.

That's a much leaner regimen. Were the other supps not working as well as you had hoped? Or is this for convenience, financial or other non efficacy related reasons?

[Shepard]

That's a much leaner regimen. Were the other supps not working as well as you had hoped? Or is this for convenience, financial or other non efficacy related reasons?

It's for all of those. It saves time and money, and I'm not rolling the dice quite as much with things that may or may not be helpful.

[wayside]

Regimen is now down to the following:
Fish Oil
Neptune Krill Oil

Why both fish oil and krill oil?

[Shepard]

Regimen is now down to the following:
Fish Oil
Neptune Krill Oil

Why both fish oil and krill oil?

Fish oil because I want higher amounts of EPA/DHA than I can get from krill oil. I like krill oil because of how the EPA/DHA/Carotenoids are attached in a phospholipid structure. There may or may not be any real benefit, but the potency of krill oil vs. fish oil in the literature seems to indicate that something is going on.

[Shepard]

Damn, I just found out that I'm supposed to be getting paid by the supplement companies. This "Chief" Navigator thing is worthless if I'm not getting the lion's share of the profit.

I lied. I take every supplement that has ever or will ever be created. Including Cell-Tech.

Send me the moneys.

[DukeNukem]

That's a much leaner regimen. Were the other supps not working as well as you had hoped? Or is this for convenience, financial or other non efficacy related reasons?

It's for all of those. It saves time and money, and I'm not rolling the dice quite as much with things that may or may not be helpful.

And you think Cissus is one of the top supps to be taking? I'd never even heard of it, and a quick google doesn't seem to suggest to me that's it's even a top 100 supplement. Why include it?

[Shepard]

And you think Cissus is one of the top supps to be taking? I'd never even heard of it, and a quick google doesn't seem to suggest to me that's it's even a top 100 supplement. Why include it?

No, I don't think it's that important for longevity/health. These four I'm taking strictly on the possibility that they may help my joint pain from Olympic weightlifting:

Cissus
Glucosamine
MSM
Biosil

I can't say whether or not they are truly speeding the adaptation to the stress or not. I just don't feel like stopping them at the moment just in case they are.

The actual name is Cissus quadrangularis which should give more Google hits.

[wayside]

There may or may not be any real benefit, but the potency of krill oil vs. fish oil in the literature seems to indicate that something is going on.

Do you have any links to any literature that supports this?

I've seen this stated by the sellers (5 times more bioavailable! or is it 10 times!), but never anything to back it up.

Since krill oil is 10x-20x more expensive than fish oil based on the omega-3 content, I can't convince myself it is worth the dough.

[Centurion]

And you think Cissus is one of the top supps to be taking? I'd never even heard of it, and a quick google doesn't seem to suggest to me that's it's even a top 100 supplement. Why include it?

It has been shown to speed up healing of fractured bone or damaged cartilage. Whether or not however this results in greater overall stability is something that's very debatable. I'm taking it for shoulder pain and do notice some effect. It's one of those grey area may be useful supps. On the plus side it is cheap though.

[Shepard]

Here is one just looking at NKO, but you see the efficacy at such a low dose:

J Am Coll Nutr. 2007 Feb;26(1):39-48.
Evaluation of the effect of Neptune Krill Oil on chronic inflammation and arthritic symptoms.
Deutsch L.

Sciopsis Inc. Evidence Based NutraMedicine, 18 Corso Court, Richmond Hill, Ontario L4S 1H4, CANADA. ldsciopsis@yahoo.ca

OBJECTIVES: a) To evaluate the effect of Neptune Krill Oil (NKO) on C-reactive protein (CRP) on patients with chronic inflammation and b) to evaluate the effectiveness of NKO on arthritic symptoms. METHODS: Randomized, double blind, placebo controlled study. Ninety patients were recruited with confirmed diagnosis of cardiovascular disease and/or rheumatoid arthritis and/or osteoarthritis and with increased levels of CRP (>1.0 mg/dl) upon three consecutive weekly blood analysis. Group A received NKO (300 mg daily) and Group B received a placebo. CRP and Western Ontario and McMaster Universities (WOMAC) osteoarthritis score were measured at baseline and days 7, 14 and 30. RESULTS: After 7 days of treatment NKO reduced CRP by 19.3% compared to an increase by 15.7% observed in the placebo group (p = 0.049). After 14 and 30 days of treatment NKO further decreased CRP by 29.7% and 30.9% respectively (p < 0.001). The CRP levels of the placebo group increased to 32.1% after 14 days and then decreased to 25.1% at day 30. The between group difference was statistically significant; p = 0.004 at day 14 and p = 0.008 at day 30. NKO showed a significant reduction in all three WOMAC scores. After 7 days of treatment, NKO reduced pain scores by 28.9% (p = 0.050), reduced stiffness by 20.3% (p = 0.001) and reduced functional impairment by 22.8% (p = 0.008). CONCLUSION: The results of the present study clearly indicate that NKO at a daily dose of 300 mg significantly inhibits inflammation and reduces arthritic symptoms within a short treatment period of 7 and 14 days.

PMID: 17353582 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Here you see fish oil vs. krill oil:

Altern Med Rev. 2004 Dec;9(4):420-8.
Evaluation of the effects of Neptune Krill Oil on the clinical course of hyperlipidemia.
Bunea R, El Farrah K, Deutsch L.

Department of Internal Medicine, McGill University, Montreal, Quebec, Canada.

OBJECTIVE: To assess the effects of krill oil on blood lipids, specifically total cholesterol, triglycerides, low-density lipoprotein (LDL), and high-density lipoprotein (HDL). METHODS: A multi-center, three-month, prospective, randomized study followed by a three-month, controlled follow-up of patients treated with 1 g and 1.5 g krill oil daily. Patients with hyperlipidemia able to maintain a healthy diet and with blood cholesterol levels between 194 and 348 mg per dL were eligible for enrollment in the trial. A sample size of 120 patients (30 patients per group) was randomly assigned to one of four groups. Group A received krill oil at a body mass index (BMI)-dependent daily dosage of 2-3 g daily. Patients in Group B were given 1-1.5 g krill oil daily, and Group C was given fish oil containing 180 mg eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and 120 mg docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) per gram of oil at a dose of 3 g daily. Group D was given a placebo containing microcrystalline cellulose. The krill oil used in this study was Neptune Krill Oil, provided by Neptune Technologies and Bioresources, Laval, Quebec, Canada. OUTCOME MEASURES: Primary parameters tested (baseline and 90-day visit) were total blood cholesterol, triglycerides, LDL, HDL, and glucose. RESULTS: Krill oil 1-3 g per day (BMI-dependent) was found to be effective for the reduction of glucose, total cholesterol, triglycerides, LDL, and HDL, compared to both fish oil and placebo. CONCLUSIONS: The results of the present study demonstrate within high levels of confidence that krill oil is effective for the management of hyperlipidemia by significantly reducing total cholesterol, LDL, and triglycerides, and increasing HDL levels. At lower and equal doses, krill oil was significantly more effective than fish oil for the reduction of glucose, triglycerides, and LDL levels.

PMID: 15656713 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

And while I'm not a woman, the MOA might still be important:

Altern Med Rev. 2003 May;8(2):171-9.
Evaluation of the effects of Neptune Krill Oil on the management of premenstrual syndrome and dysmenorrhea.
Sampalis F, Bunea R, Pelland MF, Kowalski O, Duguet N, Dupuis S.

Department of Experimental Surgery, University of Montreal, Montreal, Quebec, Canada. tina.sampalis@sympatico.ca

PRIMARY OBJECTIVE: To evaluate the effectiveness of Neptune Krill Oil (NKO) for the management of premenstrual syndrome and dysmenorrhea. SECONDARY OBJECTIVE: To compare the effectiveness of NKO for the management of premenstrual syndrome and dysmenorrhea with that of omega-3 fish oil. METHODS/ DESIGN: Double-blind, randomized clinical trial. SETTING: Outpatient clinic. PARTICIPANTS: Seventy patients of reproductive age diagnosed with premenstrual syndrome according to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Third Edition, Revised (DSM-III-R). INTERVENTIONS: Treatment period of three months with either NKO or omega-3 fish oil. OUTCOME MEASURES: Self-Assessment Questionnaire based on the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG) diagnostic criteria for premenstrual syndrome and dysmenorrhea and number of analgesics used for dysmenorrhea. RESULTS: In 70 patients with complete data, a statistically significant improvement was demonstrated among baseline, interim, and final evaluations in the self assessment questionnaire (P < 0.001) within the NKO group as well as between-group comparison to fish oil, after three cycles or 45 and 90 days of treatment. Data analysis showed a significant reduction of the number of analgesics used for dysmenorrhea within the NKO group (comparing baseline vs. 45- vs. 90-day visit). The between-groups analysis illustrated that women taking NKO consumed significantly fewer analgesics during the 10-day treatment period than women receiving omega-3 fish oil (P < 0.03). CONCLUSION: Neptune Krill Oil can significantly reduce dysmenorrhea and the emotional symptoms of premenstrual syndrome and is shown to be significantly more effective for the complete management of premenstrual symptoms compared to omega-3 fish oil.

PMID: 12777162 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

And here is a general review that references some of the above to a theory of why krill oil would be more effective gram for gram:

Altern Med Rev. 2007 Sep;12(3):207-27.
Omega-3 DHA and EPA for cognition, behavior, and mood: clinical findings and structural-functional synergies with cell membrane phospholipids.
Kidd PM.

University of California, Berkeley, California, USA.

The omega-3 fatty acids docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) and eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) are orthomolecular, conditionally essential nutrients that enhance quality of life and lower the risk of premature death. They function exclusively via cell membranes, in which they are anchored by phospholipid molecules. DHA is proven essential to pre- and postnatal brain development, whereas EPA seems more influential on behavior and mood. Both DHA and EPA generate neuroprotective metabolites. In double-blind, randomized, controlled trials, DHA and EPA combinations have been shown to benefit attention deficit/hyperactivity disorder (AD/HD), autism, dyspraxia, dyslexia, and aggression. For the affective disorders, meta-analyses confirm benefits in major depressive disorder (MDD) and bipolar disorder, with promising results in schizophrenia and initial benefit for borderline personality disorder. Accelerated cognitive decline and mild cognitive impairment (MCI) correlate with lowered tissue levels of DHA/EPA, and supplementation has improved cognitive function. Huntington disease has responded to EPA. Omega-3 phospholipid supplements that combine DHA/EPA and phospholipids into the same molecule have shown marked promise in early clinical trials. Phosphatidylserine with DHA/EPA attached (Omega-3 PS) has been shown to alleviate AD/HD symptoms. Krill omega-3 phospholipids, containing mostly phosphatidylcholine (PC) with DHA/EPA attached, markedly outperformed conventional fish oil DHA/EPA triglycerides in double-blind trials for premenstrual syndrome/dysmenorrhea and for normalizing blood lipid profiles. Krill omega-3 phospholipids demonstrated anti-inflammatory activity, lowering C-reactive protein (CRP) levels in a double-blind trial. Utilizing DHA and EPA together with phospholipids and membrane antioxidants to achieve a triple cell membrane synergy may further diversify their currently wide range of clinical applications.

PMID: 18072818 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Whether or not it matters when taking fish oil in adequate qualities, I'm not convinced one way or the other. I also take lecithin with my fish oil and NKO with the hope that it may help as well.

[suspire]

Regimen is now down to the following:

Lecithin
Fish Oil
Neptune Krill Oil
V8
Carrot Juice
Pomegranate Juice
Whey Powder
Ortho-Core
Vitamin E Complex
Vitamin D
Vitamin K
Creatine
Benfotiamine
Cissus
Glucosamine
MSM
Biosil
Folinic Acid
P5P
Vitamin C
Na-RALA

And my old sleep stack.

I'm back on an IF-ish diet so these are all taken randomly and usually at night.

Interesting. Nothing on Green Tea, Blueberries, etc? Then again, you're on the younger side, so really, there maybe isn't the same need for some of the other stuff.

[suspire]

Hmm. No ALCAR/ALA either? Any reason why not? Once again, I can see it might be an issue of age for you, but still it is usually one of the key ones in most people's regimens. No Res either. You've opted out of some of the big ones.

[Shepard]

Interesting. Nothing on Green Tea, Blueberries, etc? Then again, you're on the younger side, so really, there maybe isn't the same need for some of the other stuff.

Hmm. No ALCAR/ALA either? Any reason why not? Once again, I can see it might be an issue of age for you, but still it is usually one of the key ones in most people's regimens. No Res either. You've opted out of some of the big ones.

Green tea, blueberries, and wine are all included in my diet for the most part. None are something that I make sure to take every day like my V8/CJ/POM/Whey mixture, but they probably should be. I eat decent quantities of berries most of the time, and Satan knows I drink enough. I should probably increase my green tea intake, though. It usually only averages to be a couple of mugs daily.

I do take lipoic acid in the form of Na-RALA.

Edited by shepard, 24 November 2008 - 10:33 PM.

[VictorBjoerk]

What kind of benefits have you noticed from your extreme supplement regime over the years?

[suspire]

Interesting. Nothing on Green Tea, Blueberries, etc? Then again, you're on the younger side, so really, there maybe isn't the same need for some of the other stuff.

Hmm. No ALCAR/ALA either? Any reason why not? Once again, I can see it might be an issue of age for you, but still it is usually one of the key ones in most people's regimens. No Res either. You've opted out of some of the big ones.

Green tea, blueberries, and wine are all included in my diet for the most part. None are something that I make sure to take every day like my V8/CJ/POM/Whey mixture, but they probably should be. I eat decent quantities of berries most of the time, and Satan knows I drink enough. I should probably increase my green tea intake, though. It usually only averages to be a couple of mugs daily.

I do take lipoic acid in the form of Na-RALA.

Yeah, saw the Na-RALA later. How about Resveratrol? And how do you feel about this regimen? Any effects? I never notice a whole hell of a lot with mine, no matter what I add or subtract, so I am always curious if other people feel like they're getting a lot out of theirs.

Edited by suspire, 25 November 2008 - 12:29 AM.

[wydell]

That's extreme? Hmm, maybe you have not seen some of the other regimens posted.

What kind of benefits have you noticed from your extreme supplement regime over the years?

[wayside]

That's extreme? Hmm, maybe you have not seen some of the other regimens posted.

What kind of benefits have you noticed from your extreme supplement regime over the years?

I think he's referring to the good old days when shepard was popping 100 pills a day. Check the first post in this topic.

Not addressed to me, but I've seen a number of noticeable benefits from my regimen and some dietary changes recommended by my doctor: much less joint pain, better lipid profile, some weight loss, many fewer colds and illnesses, better digestion. Other benefits like brain health and heart health are not obvious but I hope they are there. And my regimen is not extreme (30 pills/day or so).

Shep, thanks for the krill oil references. They are interesting.

[Shepard]

How about Resveratrol?

Admittedly, I haven't kept up with resveratrol research enough to warrant a strong opinion one way or the other. When I did follow it, my wine intake mirrors the group that seemed to get the most benefits in epidemiological studies. I haven't seen any strong human evidence for higher dosed resveratrol supplementation, but I haven't really looked, either. At my age, I don't know if it's a smart bet one way or the other.

And how do you feel about this regimen? Any effects? I never notice a whole hell of a lot with mine, no matter what I add or subtract, so I am always curious if other people feel like they're getting a lot out of theirs.

I can't really say one way or the other. I feel great, but I also have a solid diet and exercise program, and a generally stress-free outlook and lifestyle. The only times that I ever really go off the regimen are when I go out of town or on vacation. On the times that I'm on vacation, my diet usually goes out the window with them as well as sleeping and I return feeling like a truck out of Hell ran over me and backed up again. So, it may or may not give tangible results. I'm leaning toward "may not".

But, I should note that I very rarely get sick (maybe a passing sinus infection every couple of years) and my lipid/BP results are always quite good.

Edited by shepard, 25 November 2008 - 04:37 AM.

[suspire]

How about Resveratrol?

Admittedly, I haven't kept up with resveratrol research enough to warrant a strong opinion one way or the other. When I did follow it, my wine intake mirrors the group that seemed to get the most benefits in epidemiological studies. I haven't seen any strong human evidence for higher dosed resveratrol supplementation, but I haven't really looked, either. At my age, I don't know if it's a smart bet one way or the other.

And how do you feel about this regimen? Any effects? I never notice a whole hell of a lot with mine, no matter what I add or subtract, so I am always curious if other people feel like they're getting a lot out of theirs.

I can't really say one way or the other. I feel great, but I also have a solid diet and exercise program, and a generally stress-free outlook and lifestyle. The only times that I ever really go off the regimen are when I go out of town or on vacation. On the times that I'm on vacation, my diet usually goes out the window with them as well as sleeping and I return feeling like a truck out of Hell ran over me and backed up again. So, it may or may not give tangible results. I'm leaning toward "may not".

But, I should note that I very rarely get sick (maybe a passing sinus infection every couple of years) and my lipid/BP results are always quite good.

Thanks for all the info.

And yeah, I have the same psychology on vacations: I party too hard and feel like crap when I get home. But like you, I don't think that proves that my regimen works.

[A_FITZ]

Damn.. you guys are freaks, lol.

I take 1 simple multi-vitamin called "Centrium" sometimes each day with meals. Thats it.

[gattaca]

At one time in europe, regular bathing was considered strange and a health hazard.

[Shepard]

I very much hope that extensive supplementation never has the opportunity to become mainstream because more effective therapies jump right ahead of them.