914 replies to this topic

[Daniel Cooper]

If this illness kills as many people as the Spanish Flu (percentage-wise) that would be about 190,000,000 dead . Considering that China levelled off at a little over 3,000 deaths, from the perspective of the current date, there is no way the Corona flu will be anywhere near comparable. Many populous countries are already getting it under control. The only huge populated areas that could bring a total death toll up to 190,000,000 are India, Africa, and perhaps Mexico or Latin America.

 

I don't think it's going to be as bad as the Spanish Flu either, because we're dong the things that are being poo pooed here and in other places.  Absent the sort of extraordinary measures that China, and now Italy, and the US and the rest of Europe are taking, this could well be as bad as the 1918 pandemic.

 

But, we know more now than we did then.  And we have the global information systems to get the word out that people need to put distance between themselves and their fellow man and that all unnecessary travel needs to be shut down.  You don't take those measures and this could well be 1918 Flu Part II.

 

Understanding infectious disease and controlling it was in it's infancy in 1918.  And they didn't have the means to essentially shut countries down in short order.  This should go much better this time if people will take reasonable precautions.

 

It is a real shame though that we don't have generic anti-viral therapies like Draco up and running. Shame on us.

 

This is going to be really interesting.  In the US we're going to see how long it really take the FDA to approve something new when they have to.  I think the last I heard was that a new vaccine takes a decade to get approved here.  And, they were still growing vaccine in chicken eggs here until recently when the FDA finally approve recombinate techniques for vaccine production after it being approved in Europe for a decade or so.

[Daniel Cooper]

Though its beyond me to verify the following abstract:

 

 

But if true, that would actually double the mortality rate again.
 

 

Well, I don't think this will affect the US and Europe's numbers much since I don't think they've progressed to testing a lot of asymptomatic people yet.  Perhaps it would skew South Korea's though.

 

 

[Hip]

It’s fascinating watching this coronavirus psychodrama being played out. I personally think that it’s really pneumonia that has been relabelled as a very deadly disease, either to usher in some sort of mass population marshal law, travel controls or eventually “discover” a vaccine for “it” to make money out of.

 

Don't call us, we'll call you.

[HBRU]

Numbers from Italy are not totally true in the sense that not all infected are known and not all deaths are counted as caused by corona virus....

https://primabergamo...ssanti/?fbclid=

[Mr Serendipity]

Just for those who want the alternative view. On the Q grapevine this whole thing is a worldwide propaganda event to scare and quarantine people, in an attempt to prevent minimum collateral damage while the US military clean out the deep state in countries across the world. I don’t want to derail this thread with a conspiracy theory, or delegitimise the crisis (its only a theory) so I won’t mention anymore of it, but I’m sure we’ll all find out after a month what’s true and what’s not.

Edited by Jesus is King, 17 March 2020 - 11:05 AM.

[HBRU]

Jesus is King ... Hope you are right: our government is so bad !

[Mr Serendipity]

Jesus is King ... Hope you are right: our government is so bad !

100% you literally have nothing to worry about.

 

What better way to take out the deep state then shut down the borders, close the airports, and keep everyone safe inside under the guise of a killer virus that came out of nowhere destroying all of humanity.

It’ll all be over soon enough. The coronavirus is the biggest propaganda event in history, period.

[Hebbeh]

https://amp.usatoday.../amp/5053783002

[ymc]

https://amp.usatoday.../amp/5053783002

 

Well, even Chinese at Chinese forums admit this is CCP propaganda. However, most of them support this propaganda because it helps the national interest. Of course, this can also be due to the fact that if you say otherwise, then your post get deleted.

[Daniel Cooper]

I call it the Chinese Ebola 

or

Wuhan China Virus

 

The Chinese are very unhappy about it being called the "Wuhan Virus" but I think it's important that that label stick.

 

This is like the third or forth significant zoonotic virus to emerge from Chinese wet markets in a little over 20 years.  We got lucky with previous viruses - they were generally too lethal to be highly communicable so they were shut down pretty rapidly with quarantine techniques.

 

Wuhan Virus has just the right combination of communicability and lethality (very similar btw to the communicability/lethality of the 1918 pandemic) to be something that can not be easily controlled by quarantine but has the potential to kill a lot of people.

 

We had Swine Flu, we had SARS, and we've had other viruses emerging from these Chinese wet markets.  The Chinese ignored multiple warnings.  After the cost in lives and money I hope they don't ignore it this time and they shut down these wet markets.  Otherwise, this is guaranteed to happen again.  And Covid-19/Wuhan Virus isn't the worst possible outcome.  One day something's going to escape one of those wet markets that is going to kill millions.  

[kurdishfella]

MERS was named after middle east then so should this new virus be named after china, it is only fair.

[Forever21]

The Chinese are very unhappy about it being called the "Wuhan Virus" but I think it's important that that label stick.

 

This is like the third or forth significant zoonotic virus to emerge from Chinese wet markets in a little over 20 years.  We got lucky with previous viruses - they were generally too lethal to be highly communicable so they were shut down pretty rapidly with quarantine techniques.

 

Wuhan Virus has just the right combination of communicability and lethality (very similar btw to the communicability/lethality of the 1918 pandemic) to be something that can not be easily controlled by quarantine but has the potential to kill a lot of people.

 

We had Swine Flu, we had SARS, and we've had other viruses emerging from these Chinese wet markets.  The Chinese ignored multiple warnings.  After the cost in lives and money I hope they don't ignore it this time and they shut down these wet markets.  Otherwise, this is guaranteed to happen again.  And Covid-19/Wuhan Virus isn't the worst possible outcome.  One day something's going to escape one of those wet markets that is going to kill millions.  

 

 

 

It's a moral outrage that the world is not outraged over the source of this virus. The only thing missing from this disaster is a "direct intent" to cause harm. Otherwise, this is an act of war, a terrorist attack, a biological-chemical war attack.

 

If the US is to drop 2 atomic bombs to Wuhan, it would be uncalled for politically but everyone in the world would support it or understand and even thank for it.

 

But who are we kidding? Trillions of dollars lost and countless lives ended - and China will not have to pay anything for this "crime".

 

So yes, It is the LEAST we could do. To call it what it is, a Wuhan China Virus.

[kurdishfella]

is some chinese government shill marking all these anti china posts as negative.. seen a lot of that lately surrounding this new virus, says a lot. Trying to take the blame away from china government by propaganda posts made by fake profiles and channels. Just check out the youtube channel CGTN it is so obvious how fake and propaganda it is. probably owned by them. Look at dr. drew and dr. oz both of them are downplaying this pandemic HARD. obviously paid by china or someone something. who is next dr phil

Edited by kurdishfella, 17 March 2020 - 06:05 PM.

[Forever21]

Well let's see.

 

This is a China Wuhan Virus caused by the Evil Communist Party of Wuhan China in Communist China.

 

 

Let's see what the army of the CCP would do. Many of them attend our American universities and are "activated" to dispense propaganda online or combat any critic of the dear communist party leaders.

[Mr Serendipity]

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Jesus is King, 17 March 2020 - 10:04 PM.

[Mind]

Although quality data continues to come in that the Corona flu is much worse than the regular flu, there are still some dissenting opinions: 

 

 

https://www.lewrockw...ronavirus-hoax/

 

https://amp.usatoday.../amp/5053783002

Edited by Mind, 17 March 2020 - 09:31 PM.

[pamojja]

Although quality data continues to come in that the Corona flu is much worse than the regular flu, there are still some dissenting opinions: 

 

 

Just did a quick and rough calculation.

Total populations: https://www.laenderd.../einwohner.aspx
Flu and pneumonia mortality (2017) per 100000: https://www.worldlif...nia/by-country/
Covid-19 mortality: https://gisanddata.m...423467b48e9ecf6

For a fast calculation divided the yearly usual flu mortality into 4 = the 3 months this 'epidemic' exist. And compared it to the actual mortality from this alledgedly new virus:
 

 Clipboard.png   49.94KB   2 downloads

The only epidemic till now seems to be happening in Italy. But if Italy just drew the bad luck this year, as the UK did in 2017 with 23.01 flu-deaths per 100000, then still nothing out of the ordinary. Soon we'll know.

 

[adamh]

This thread will be thrown into the ash heap of a little visited forum soon. But it is known that china pays people to push its propaganda. It would not surprise me if a few were on this site, it would be surprising if there were none

 

Do a search on bht the preservative. It has pronounced anti viral properties and is safe and cheap

[Skyguy2005]

It's a moral outrage that the world is not outraged over the source of this virus. The only thing missing from this disaster is a "direct intent" to cause harm. Otherwise, this is an act of war, a terrorist attack, a biological-chemical war attack.

 

If the US is to drop 2 atomic bombs to Wuhan, it would be uncalled for politically but everyone in the world would support it or understand and even thank for it.

 

 

If you were to drop 2 atomic bombs to Wuhan you would probably become the most evil person in history, surpassing even Hitler himself. Pull yourself together man.

[Skyguy2005]

The Chinese are very unhappy about it being called the "Wuhan Virus" but I think it's important that that label stick.

 

This is like the third or forth significant zoonotic virus to emerge from Chinese wet markets in a little over 20 years.  We got lucky with previous viruses - they were generally too lethal to be highly communicable so they were shut down pretty rapidly with quarantine techniques.

 

Wuhan Virus has just the right combination of communicability and lethality (very similar btw to the communicability/lethality of the 1918 pandemic) to be something that can not be easily controlled by quarantine but has the potential to kill a lot of people.

 

We had Swine Flu, we had SARS, and we've had other viruses emerging from these Chinese wet markets.  The Chinese ignored multiple warnings.  After the cost in lives and money I hope they don't ignore it this time and they shut down these wet markets.  Otherwise, this is guaranteed to happen again.  And Covid-19/Wuhan Virus isn't the worst possible outcome.  One day something's going to escape one of those wet markets that is going to kill millions.  

 

It's certainly an argument for closing these animal markets. It's also a subcase of the argument for vegetarianism; how many people will die when antibiotic resistance, caused largely by animal farming, really hits? It will be Coronavirusx1000.
 

[BlueCloud]

Blablabla..”

Jesus Is King : I am blowing my cover now to tell you that I am the ONE. I am GOD.

 

BlueClouD :

from B to G = 6

from C to O = 13

from D to D = 0

 

6+13 = 19

1+9 = 10

1+0 = 1 

1 = THE ONE

GOD

 

Now that I have revealed myself to you  , I am telling : you are wrong, and stop posting that crap.

Edited by BlueCloud, 18 March 2020 - 12:09 PM.

[kurdishfella]

to the guy obessing about Q, they obviously are people in the government but bad people, they will do some good stuff to win you over but their main agenda is to keep you distracted and for you to not do anything and hope they do it which is never gonna happen, this Q bullshit has been going on for years and you guys are being played hard because you are so easy to trick. trump is just a puppet like all other presidents and they are being told by people who have a lot of power to do as they say. Just like that alex jones guy. they hone in on you religious christians and patriots because you guys are the typical delusional american who believe everything without a thought and they in the government laugh at you. This Q guy likes numbers! somehow numbers make you trust them more huh. I swear I feel like i am in the movie idiocracy

Edited by kurdishfella, 18 March 2020 - 12:43 PM.

[Daniel Cooper]

It's certainly an argument for closing these animal markets. It's also a subcase of the argument for vegetarianism; how many people will die when antibiotic resistance, caused largely by animal farming, really hits? It will be Coronavirusx1000.
 

 

The fly in that ointment is that humans weren't really made to be vegetarians. We're omnivores.  Just a look at our teeth proves that point.

 

You can be healthy as a vegetarian - but it takes a lot of work to insure that you're getting certain nutrients that are readily available in animal products but much more scarce in plant products.

 

If you have an ethical issue with eating animals that's a different argument.  But certainly you can do farm animal production in a way that doesn't encourage creating zoonotic viruses.  It's not much of an issue here because we don't tend to mix multiple animals in close proximity.  You have chicken farms, and pig farms and cattle farms.  Almost never with those mixed together.  Even back in the day when you had family farms which did mix those animals together to an extent, you wouldn't see them in such close contact.  You go to a Chinese wet market (I have) and you may see 5 or 6 different animal species all spaced about a foot apart in very unsanitary conditions, and more than half of those will be wild animals rather than domesticated.  A chicken next to a turtle, next to a bat, next to a pangolin, next to snake, next to a civet.  That many different animals in such intimate contact just doesn't happen in nature. So don't take this extreme sort of situation as an indictment against animal husbandry in general. 

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 18 March 2020 - 02:23 PM.

[Mind]

FYI. I will be moving the comments in this thread to other more relevant Corona threads....just so the Corona topics do not grow out of control.

[Forever21]

If you were to drop 2 atomic bombs to Wuhan you would probably become the most evil person in history, surpassing even Hitler himself. Pull yourself together man.

 

If "I" were to drop it, yes.

Nowhere did I say "I" or any individual should.

 

This goes beyond your ego. Pull YOUrself together.

Nowhere did I imply any one individual should do it.

 

The Hitler idea came from inside YOUr own head.

That's disturbing.

 

You're late for your neo-nazi rally.

 

 

 

Edited by Forever21, 18 March 2020 - 06:38 PM.

[geo12the]

The Chinese are very unhappy about it being called the "Wuhan Virus" but I think it's important that that label stick.

 

This is like the third or forth significant zoonotic virus to emerge from Chinese wet markets in a little over 20 years.  We got lucky with previous viruses - they were generally too lethal to be highly communicable so they were shut down pretty rapidly with quarantine techniques.

 

Wuhan Virus has just the right combination of communicability and lethality (very similar btw to the communicability/lethality of the 1918 pandemic) to be something that can not be easily controlled by quarantine but has the potential to kill a lot of people.

 

We had Swine Flu, we had SARS, and we've had other viruses emerging from these Chinese wet markets.  The Chinese ignored multiple warnings.  After the cost in lives and money I hope they don't ignore it this time and they shut down these wet markets.  Otherwise, this is guaranteed to happen again.  And Covid-19/Wuhan Virus isn't the worst possible outcome.  One day something's going to escape one of those wet markets that is going to kill millions.  

 

As I understand it's not the Wet Markets that are the problem but the Wildlife markets where wild animals are kept stacked in tight cages next to one another. I read an article that said that typically when these diseases emerge from these markets the Chinese government has clamped down and shut them down and then a few years later people who stand to profit grease the wheels and the markets start up again. I am surprised there is not more international pressure to get the Chinese government to  deal with the problem.

[Daniel Cooper]

As I understand it's not the Wet Markets that are the problem but the Wildlife markets where wild animals are kept stacked in tight cages next to one another. I read an article that said that typically when these diseases emerge from these markets the Chinese government has clamped down and shut them down and then a few years later people who stand to profit grease the wheels and the markets start up again. I am surprised there is not more international pressure to get the Chinese government to  deal with the problem.

 

 

From my point of view they are one and the same.  Wet markets have live animals that are either butchered when purchased or the live animal is purchased alive and butchered at home. You'll find normal domesticated farm animals (pigs, chickens, goats, etc) along side of raised wild animals (lions, tigers, and bears (oh my) snakes, bats, pangolins, and probably a dozen other species I've never heard of) along side of wild caught animals. This may be an issue of semantics. 

 

I've been to a few wet markets in China (Shenzhen) and they all feature live domestic and wild animals in tightly stacked cages for sale.  I'd guess you'd have at least a dozen different species packed in close quarters in very unsanitary conditions.  And yes, if China doesn't shut down or at least tightly regulate the conditions in these markets this is 100% guaranteed to happen again.  Seems like every 5 - 10 years a new zoonotic virus crawls out of these things.

[pamojja]

Just did a quick and rough calculation.

Total populations: https://www.laenderd.../einwohner.aspx
Flu and pneumonia mortality (2017) per 100000: https://www.worldlif...nia/by-country/
Covid-19 mortality: https://gisanddata.m...423467b48e9ecf6

For a fast calculation divided the yearly usual flu mortality into 4 = the 3 months this 'epidemic' exist. And compared it to the actual mortality from this alledgedly new virus:
 

Clipboard.png

The only epidemic till now seems to be happening in Italy. But if Italy just drew the bad luck this year, as the UK did in 2017 with 23.01 flu-deaths per 100000, then still nothing out of the ordinary. Soon we'll know.

 

Huch, my calculation seems completely off. There is a webside monitoring weekly excess-deaths in Europe. (with a slider under the map going back to week 5 of 2017, and graphics on other pages). And according to this webside there hasn’t been any abnormal excess-mortality in Italy thoughout this alledged ’epidemic’ at all, compared to the years before.

http://www.euromomo...._2017_2020.html

 

It 'appears' corona takes it all! And leaves all other causes of deaths with less, in sum not increasing total mortality at all.

   

 

[xEva]

 

Huch, my calculation seems completely off. There is a webside monitoring weekly excess-deaths in Europe. (with a slider under the map going back to week 5 of 2017, and graphics on other pages). And according to this webside there hasn’t been any abnormal excess-mortality in Italy thoughout this alledged ’epidemic’ at all, compared to the years before.

http://www.euromomo...._2017_2020.html

 

It 'appears' corona takes it all! And leaves all other causes of deaths with less, in sum not increasing total mortality at all.

   

 

 

I don't understand how this is possible, considering that the health system in northern Italy is swamped, patients are treated in basements and corridors with med personnel working 18h shifts without days off, forced to triage ventilators and ICU beds. Crematorium in Bergamo is working 24/7 and still, yesterday 60+ coffins had to be sent to other municipalities for cremation (for which military trucks had to be summoned). All this info from Corriere della Sera.

 

Maybe the sites you quote don't take into account that the 'normal' yearly mortality 'due to flu' has occurred in the span of few weeks -? But it's not over yet, unfortunately.  

[pamojja]

My hypothesis is, that all those who usually die from the major killers:

 

 

https://www.worldlif...gs-total-deaths

 

1. Coronary Heart Disease: 8,727,670
2. Stroke: 6,221,072
3. Influenza and Pneumonia: 3,177,204
4. Lung Disease: 3,162,054
5. Lung Cancers: 1,683,893
6. Diabetes Mellitus: 1,570,100
7. Alzheimers/Dementia: 1,533,855
8. Diarrhoeal diseases: 1,388,418
9. Tuberculosis: 1,372,855
10. Road Traffic Accidents: 1,339,206

 

Succumb now mostly to pneumonia. Also looking at these satelite pictures:

 

 NO2-China.png   1.21MB   1 downloads

 

 NO2-Wuhan.png   1.05MB   0 downloads

 

 

Usual lung affliction got a respite. Flu and all other infections almost impossible now with the restrictions. The close down on industry and traffic in turn can't but decrease traffic accidents.

 

But at this point nothing for sure. Well worth monitoring. And if anyone comes accross other monitoring systems for excess mortality, please post!

 

 

But if my hypothesis is true, there of course will be excess mortality in a few month time, if the economic consequences from the shut-down become manifest. Unemployment and poverty has always been the fertile ground for deathly illnesses, and especially infectious diseases, flourish.

Edited by pamojja, 19 March 2020 - 03:50 PM.