914 replies to this topic

[osris]

I don't know anything about the authors. Are you saying they are biased etc in some sense?

[BlueCloud]

I don't know anything about the authors. Are you saying they are biased etc in some sense?

 

The last name in the article is Dr Raoult. 

[mikeinnaples]

From The International Journal of Antimicrobial Agents: "The problem of SARS-CoV-2 is probably being overestimated, as 2.6 million people die of respiratory infections each year compared with less than 4000 deaths for SARS-CoV-2 at the time of writing." https://www.scienced...924857920300972

 

A lot has changed since that was written. We now stand at 92,718 dead, still will an unknown impact in countries without adequate or any testing and care.

 

On a personal note, my friend's three boys were all hit with this. One teen and the other 2 in their early 20's. The oldest is still in the ICU and I haven't gotten an update from my friend since they started rewarming him after the medically induced hypothermia they put him in after his heart stopped two different times. I suspect the news isn't going to be all that great in regards to brain function as at one point he was coded for 7 minutes. Anyhow, his middle child is still in the hospital on oxygen and his youngest has already been released. Another friend has lost two elderly family members to this. Who knows what the global impact of this will ultimately be, but the good news it that it looks like some of the measures being taken across the world are working to varying degrees.

Edited by mikeinnaples, 09 April 2020 - 04:43 PM.

[pamojja]

An epidemiologist for 35 years, now retired:

 

 

 

The first three months of the COVID-19 epidemic: Epidemiological evidence for two separate strains of SARS-CoV-2 viruses spreading and implications for prevention strategies

Abstract

About one month after the COVID-19 epidemic peaked in Mainland China and SARS-CoV-2 migrated from China westward to Europe and then the U.S., the epidemiological data begin to provide important insights into the risks associated with the disease and the effectiveness of intervention strategies. Like other respiratory diseases, including the 2003 SARS epidemic, the virus remains only about two months in any given population, yet the peak incidence and the lethality can vary. The data suggest that at least two strains of the 2020 SARS-CoV-2 virus have evolved during its migration from Mainland China to Europe. South Korea, Iran, and Italy were hit by the more dangerous "SKII" variant. While the epidemic in China is about to end, and in Europe about to level off, the course of the epidemic in the younger US population is still increasing and the peak level will likely depend on which of the strains has entered the US first. The same models that help us to understand the epidemic also help us to choose prevention strategies. While containment merely prolongs the time the disease circulates until the proportion of immune people is high enough for "herd immunity", reducing disease severity, either by vaccination or by early treatment of complications, is the best strategy against a respiratory virus disease.

 

[Mind]

It is definitely a deadly disease, similar to SARS, much more deadly than the seasonal flu, but it does not hurt to ask questions. Some people are wondering about the actual CFR rate. There is some evidence that the numbers are being inflated....not sure to what degree.

 

https://www.armstron...ud-its-massive/

[ymc]

It is definitely a deadly disease, similar to SARS, much more deadly than the seasonal flu, but it does not hurt to ask questions. Some people are wondering about the actual CFR rate. There is some evidence that the numbers are being inflated....not sure to what degree.

 

https://www.armstron...ud-its-massive/

 

While CFR of coronavirus might not be as high as SARS, its R0 is 5.7 that results in exponential growth of cases that can overwhelm the healthcare system such that the CFR will be higher than expected. The significantly higher R0 also results in much higher number of total cases and therefore killing thousand times more people than SARS.

 

https://wwwnc.cdc.go...20-0282_article

[Mind]

Here is an interesting take: https://www.zerohedg...nction-research

 

I enjoyed the speculation about the origins of this particular virus, but then then author kind-of wanders, and doesn't tie things together too well. No explanation for why this perfect deadly bioweapon mostly affects the elderly.

 

I cannot agree with the author at the end, saying the whole world should remain shutdown for a lot longer. There are already signs of food shortages in the world. Other critical supplies will be running in short supply soon. It is not much longer before the cure (quarantine) becomes worse than the disease. I am glad to see countries such as Australia, Austria, Germany, Iran, planning to safely get people back to work.

[Mind]

The Guardian and Epoch Times highlight how the communist government in China continues to cover-up the extent and origins of the outbreak.

 

https://www.zerohedg...navirus-origins

 

Interesting that Taiwan was the first country to blow the whistle on the communist lies in China (that WHO completely ignored) and they are doing the best. Taiwan immediately closed off all travel from China and took appropriate measures to prevent the spread. Just think if the rest of the world has listened to Taiwan (instead of the WHO) about human-to-human transmission. Perhaps this outbreak could have been contained, like SARS.

[Mr Serendipity]

https://www.breitbar...-make-them-pay/

 

Sen. Marsha Blackburn (R-TN) told Breitbart News Saturday that the United States needs to hold China’s feet to the fire for its central role in the coronavirus pandemic, stressing that its position in key organizations need to be re-examined and the communist country should pay for the spread of the disease, in part by forgiving U.S. debt.

 

Edited by Jesus is King, 12 April 2020 - 03:21 PM.

[BlueCloud]

The communists Chinese governmentcould have retaliated against anyone and everyone very early on in the pandemic.

True in theory, but i don’t think China could do much in terms of retaliation since they have as much to loose by doing that. China is the factory of the western world, and there are  many governments already promising to move back the manufacturing of all critical items like health products ( medication, equipment) back to their countries. France, Canada, Germany , etc.. all announced similar intentions. Furthermore, India, Brazil, Vietnam are among the countries who would be more than happy to take China’s position as the world’s factory. Apple is already building factories in India and Brazil to depend less on China, various western chemical companies are manufacturing in India now rather than China, car companies doing so in Brazil, etc...

 

All China has to do to destroy part of its business is to piss off  various big countries in Europe, the US, Japan, by retaliating, and you can be sure a big part of western companies will accelerate moving the manufacturing of their products out of China and into the competing India/Brazil/Vietnam.

It’s a delicate balance of power that everyone is playing. 
 

i think all the various governments around the world knew already that China was lying about the numbers. You don’t even need spies for that, it is expected from China. It is common knowledge.  They probably just misjudged HOW MUCH China was lying by a big margin. 

[Hip]

I thought I would start this thread to discuss matters related to:

 

COVIDIOTS — people who ignore social distancing or lockdown rules and do not take the pandemic seriously

Coronavirus deniers — people who refuse to accept that the SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus is a serious problem to humanity

Coronavirus conspiracy theorists — people who subscribe to totally wacky conspiracy theories related to coronavirus 

 

Post your links to media stories about COVIDIOTS, coronavirus deniers and coronavirus conspiracy theorists in this thread. 

 

 

 

I thought I'd start with the most stupid conspiracy theory I have heard in a long time: the idea that 5G masts are the cause of the coronavirus pandemic. Yes, we do share the planet with some misguided people!

 

This newspaper article reports that across the UK, there have now been 30 arson and vandalism attacks on wireless towers and telecom gear, because of social media stories propagating the nonsense that 5G is behind the pandemic.

 

And some of the not-so-bright celebrities are pushing the 5G coronavirus conspiracy theory, as this article details:

 

The range of celebrities pushing 5G conspiracy theories is astounding. From reality TV stars such as Calum Best to A-list Hollywood names such as Woody Harrelson, the theory has infiltrated every level and type of celebrity culture. Professional boxer Amir Khan yesterday went on Instagram to state that coronavirus was man-made and “put there... while they test 5G” and Dancing On Ice judge Jason Gardiner posted several tweets last week that encouraged followers to sign petitions halting the roll-out of 5G. The outrage particularly began to pick up on Thursday (2 April) as reports of people torching cell towers began circulating. The same day, Made In Chelsea star Lucy Watson tweeted “fuck 5G” and has yet to take down her post.

 

Edited by Hip, 13 April 2020 - 02:07 AM.

[pamojja]

A summary from findings of the original Swiss Propaganda Reseach article, with link to sources to check oneself if accurate:

 

 

Overview

1. According to data from the best-studied countries such as South Korea, Iceland, Germany and Denmark, the overall lethality of Covid19 is in the lower per mille range and thus up to twenty times lower than initially assumed by the WHO.
2. A study in Nature Medicine comes to a similar conclusion even for the Chinese city of Wuhan. The initially significantly higher values for Wuhan were obtained because a many people with mild or no symptoms were not recorded.
3. 50% to 80% of test-positive individuals remain symptom-free. Even among the 70 to 79 year old persons about 60% remain symptom-free, many more show only mild symptoms.
4. The median age of the deceased in most countries (including Italy) is over 80 years and only about 1% of the deceased had no serious previous illnesses. The age and risk profile of deaths thus essentially corresponds to normal mortality.
5. Many media reports of young and healthy people dying from Covid19 have proven to be false upon closer inspection. Many of these people either did not die from Covid19 or they in fact had serious preconditions (such as undiagnosed leukaemia).
6. Normal overall mortality in the US is about 8000 people per day, in Germany about 2600 people and in Italy about 1800 people per day. Influenza mortality in the US is up to 80,000, in Germany and Italy up to 25,000, and in Switzerland up to 1500 people per winter.
7. Strongly increased death rates, as in northern Italy, can be influenced by additional risk factors such as very high air pollution and microbial contamination as well as a collapse in the care of the elderly and sick due to mass panic and lockdown measures.
8. In countries such as Italy and Spain, and to some extent Great Britain and the US, a serious overload of hospitals, notably by the flu, is not unusual. In addition, up to 15% of doctors and nurses currently have to self-quarantine, even if they develop no symptoms.
9. An important distinction concerns the question of whether people die with or indeed from coronaviruses. Autopsies show that in many cases the previous illnesses were an important or decisive factor, but the official figures usually do not reflect this.
10. Thus in order to assess the danger of the disease, the key indicator is not the often mentioned number of test-positive persons and deceased, but the number of persons who actually and unexpectedly develop or die of pneumonia.
11. The often shown exponential curves of “corona cases” are misleading, since the number of tests also increases exponentially. In most countries, the ratio of positive tests to total tests either remains constant between 5% to 25% or increases rather slowly.
12. Countries without lockdowns and contact bans, such as Japan, South Korea and Sweden, have not experienced a more negative course of events than other countries. This might call into question the effectiveness of such far-reaching measures.
13. According to leading lung specialists, invasive ventilation of Covid19 patients is often counterproductive and causes additional damage to the lungs. The invasive ventilation of Covid19 patients is partly done out of fear of spreading the virus through aerosols.
14. Contrary to original assumptions, however, the WHO determined at the end of March that there is no evidence of aerosol dispersal of the virus. A leading German virologist also found no aerosol and no smear infections in a pilot study.
15. Many clinics in Europe and the US have been lacking patients and some have had to introduce short-time work. Numerous operations and therapies were cancelled by clinics, even emergency patients sometimes stay at home out of fear of the virus.
16. Several media have been caught trying to dramatize the situation in clinics, sometimes even with manipulative pictures and videos. In general, many media outlets do not question even doubtful official statements and figures.
17. The virus test kits used internationally are prone to errors. Several studies have shown that even normal corona viruses can give a false positive result. Moreover, the virus test currently in use has not been clinically validated due to time pressure.
18. Numerous internationally renowned experts from the fields of virology, immunology and epidemiology consider the measures taken to be counterproductive and recommend a rapid natural immunisation of the general population while protecting risk groups.
19. The number of people suffering from unemployment, psychological problems and domestic violence as a result of the measures taken has exploded in the US and worldwide. Several experts believe that the measures may claim more lives than the virus itself.
20. NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden warned that the corona crisis is used for the massive and permanent expansion of global surveillance. The renowned virologist Pablo Goldschmidt spoke of a “global media terror” and “totalitarian measures”. Leading British virologist Professor John Oxford spoke of a “media epidemic”.

 

[pamojja]

An epidemiologist for 35 years, now retired:

 

If one checks the wikipedia pages of coronavirus pandemic, almost all countries which do have a dedictated cart for daily deaths do already show declines. I add below in the order of first covid death:

 

China:

 Screenshot_2020-04-14 2019–20 coronavirus pandemic in mainland China - Wikipedia.png   83.26KB   1 downloads

 

Phillipines:

 Screenshot_2020-04-14 2020 coronavirus pandemic in the Philippines - Wikipedia.png   67KB   1 downloads

 

Spain:

 Screenshot_2020-04-14 2020 coronavirus pandemic in Spain - Wikipedia.png   82.53KB   1 downloads

 

France:

 Screenshot_2020-04-14 2020 coronavirus pandemic in France - Wikipedia.png   80.62KB   1 downloads

 

Iran:

 Screenshot_2020-04-14 2020 coronavirus pandemic in Iran - Wikipedia.png   72.73KB   1 downloads

 

South Korea:

 Screenshot_2020-04-14 2020 coronavirus pandemic in South Korea - Wikipedia.png   84.15KB   0 downloads

 

Italy:

 Screenshot_2020-04-14 2020 coronavirus pandemic in Italy - Wikipedia.png   71.68KB   1 downloads

 

US:

 Screenshot_2020-04-14 2020 coronavirus pandemic in the United States - Wikipedia.png   83.2KB   1 downloads

 

Thailand:

 Screenshot_2020-04-14 2020 coronavirus pandemic in Thailand - Wikipedia.png   61.71KB   0 downloads

 

Iraq:

 Screenshot_2020-04-14 2020 coronavirus pandemic in Iraq - Wikipedia.png   51.83KB   1 downloads

 

Switzerland:

 Screenshot_2020-04-14 2020 coronavirus pandemic in Switzerland - Wikipedia.png   66.27KB   0 downloads

 

UK:

 Screenshot_2020-04-14 2020 coronavirus pandemic in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia.png   49.14KB   1 downloads

 

Netherlands:

 Screenshot_2020-04-14 2020 coronavirus pandemic in the Netherlands - Wikipedia.png   101.77KB   1 downloads

 

Argentina:

 Screenshot_2020-04-14 2020 coronavirus pandemic in Argentina - Wikipedia.png   55.71KB   0 downloads

 

Germany:

 Screenshot_2020-04-14 2020 coronavirus pandemic in Germany - Wikipedia.png   90.03KB   0 downloads

 

Indonesia:

 Screenshot_2020-04-14 2020 coronavirus pandemic in Indonesia - Wikipedia.png   47.29KB   0 downloads

 

Belgium:

 Screenshot_2020-04-14 2020 coronavirus pandemic in Belgium - Wikipedia.png   53.46KB   0 downloads

 

Sweden:

 Screenshot_2020-04-14 2020 coronavirus pandemic in Sweden - Wikipedia.png   74.25KB   0 downloads

 

Poland:

 Screenshot_2020-04-14 2020 coronavirus pandemic in Poland - Wikipedia.png   63.27KB   0 downloads

 

Greece:

 Screenshot_2020-04-14 2020 coronavirus pandemic in Greece - Wikipedia.png   75.62KB   0 downloads

 

Azerbaijan:

 Screenshot_2020-04-14 2020 coronavirus pandemic in Azerbaijan - Wikipedia.png   48.75KB   0 downloads

 

Peru:

 Screenshot_2020-04-14 2020 coronavirus pandemic in Peru - Wikipedia.png   48.49KB   0 downloads

 

Ukraine:

 Screenshot_2020-04-14 2020 coronavirus pandemic in Ukraine - Wikipedia(1).png   61.92KB   0 downloads

 

Denmark:

 Screenshot_2020-04-14 2020 coronavirus pandemic in Denmark - Wikipedia.png   47.34KB   0 downloads

 

Portugal:

 Screenshot_2020-04-14 2020 coronavirus pandemic in Portugal - Wikipedia.png   58.42KB   0 downloads

 

Hungary:

 Screenshot_2020-04-14 2020 coronavirus pandemic in Hungary - Wikipedia.png   46.65KB   0 downloads

 

Mexico:

 Screenshot_2020-04-14 2020 coronavirus pandemic in Mexico - Wikipedia.png   56.4KB   0 downloads

 

Malaysia:

 Screenshot_2020-04-14 2020 coronavirus pandemic in Malaysia - Wikipedia.png   31.72KB   0 downloads

 

Brazil:

 Screenshot_2020-04-14 2020 coronavirus pandemic in Brazil - Wikipedia.png   90.14KB   0 downloads

 

Pakistan:

 Screenshot_2020-04-14 2020 coronavirus pandemic in Pakistan - Wikipedia.png   53.65KB   0 downloads

 

India:

 Screenshot_2020-04-14 2020 coronavirus pandemic in India - Wikipedia.png   56.52KB   0 downloads

 

Moldova:

 Screenshot_2020-04-14 2020 coronavirus pandemic in Moldova - Wikipedia.png   64.84KB   0 downloads

 

Israel:

 Screenshot_2020-04-14 2020 coronavirus pandemic in Israel - Wikipedia.png   80.83KB   0 downloads

 

 

I did try to test Prov. Wittkovskis observation from 35 years as an epidemiologst, that respiratory disease epidemics would always decline naturally. And if strict lockdown would have been effective, than it would have to show in a marked decline 17 days after. Since it takes in average 17 days from infection to death (for those who indeed become that severe, since the majority don't experience any symptoms anyway).

I could identify 25 countries with lockdown and daily deaths plateauing, in average after 14 days.
On the opposite site could only identify 6 countries where no information about lockdown has been puplished.

The difference from the first covid-death untill deaths plateaued between these 2 groups was 30 days with lockdown, and 33 days without lockdown.

That in itself is not a significant difference at all. Especially since it's a comparison of 25 to only 6 very disparate countries.

Also at this point it simply can not be known, if regions now with lower deaths wont experience a much worse second peak. Especially with desparate attemps to flatten the curve (ie. strict lockdown, instead of sensible meassures shown to work already for example in Taiwan, South Korea, Hongkong and Japan).

 

[Hip]

Another noteworthy case of coronavirus stupidity is Kelly Brogan, a self-styled holistic healer, and it would seem, an accomplished head in the clouds halfwit.

 

On Gwyneth Paltrow’s website Goop, Kelly Brogan has written a number of articles claiming that: the pandemic is a cover-up for the roll-out of 5G; and also that the pandemic was an effort by vaccine companies and members of the elite to gain financial power. She also said a lot of other rather moronic things. Ref: here. 

 

 

Goop of course is the health and lifestyle website where silly celebrity-worshipping members of the public are conned into spending excessive amounts on hyped-up items that in reality have little benefit for health, like Paltrow’s famous vagina eggs made from rose quartz or jade: the Goop website claimed these eggs will normalize your hormones if you stick them up your vagina. For more info on these vagina balls, see here. 

 

Goop is a funny name for a business. The dictionary defines goop as: "sloppy or sticky semi-fluid matter, typically something unpleasant". 

 

 

 

As for the silly 5G conspiracy, anyone with a science background should be able to understand this graph, which shows that the 60 GHz electromagnetic waves used by 5G do not penetrate the body any deeper than the skin. 60 GHz wave penetration depth into body tissue is only about 1 mm. So blood and internal organs are not going to be affected.

Edited by Hip, 14 April 2020 - 11:18 PM.

[pamojja]

How sad. Having nothing better to do with one's precious time than to cultivate hate towards others? With which one anyway has nothing to do.

 

[Hip]

How sad. Having nothing better to do with one's precious time than to cultivate hate towards others? With which one anyway has nothing to do.

 

Not cultivating hate at all, just taking the Mickey out of silly people. Which is fun, but is also done with a serious and important purpose:

 

Maybe you don't follow the news or current events, and are thus unaware of the issues humanity faces; but the thorny issue of fake news and online stupidity is something that's of major concern to authorities.

 

We all need to do our best to counter the fake news propagators online, especially during this pandemic, where it seems the fake news merchants are crawling out of the woodwork everywhere. 

 

Hopefully it will not be long before people will need to pass an exam before they are allowed to write comments on the Internet, just like you need to pass an exam before getting an amateur radio licence, or before driving a car. We do not allow people to drive cars without passing a test, because they would become dangers to themselves and others. Likewise, we don't really want foolish people online, because they can spread dangerous misinformation.

 

We've got the halfwits of the world now burning down 5G masts, in one case nearly setting an occupied house on fire. Only because they were gullible and stupid enough to get duped by the ridiculous 5G coronavirus conspiracy theory.

 

Perhaps those with pathologically low intelligence and/or high gullibility, and those with certain mental health problems like schizotypy (which predispose people to believing in conspiracy theories), should not be allowed to post comments online at all. These people are the enemy of free speech, because free speech is about letting people speak the truth. But when the truth becomes lost in a maelstrom of falsity and fake news, truth and free speech dies.

Edited by Hip, 15 April 2020 - 02:21 AM.

[pamojja]

Not cultivating hate at all, just taking the Mickey out of silly people. Which is fun, but is also done with a serious and important purpose:

 

With the anhedonia you suffer from, hatrad of course must feel like a thrill. You're completely discociated with your feelings, driving you blindly. The larger problem about misinformation in regard to covid-1984 is the widespread censorship and one-sided sensationalist mainstream media. That is causing real harm psychological, economic, and to all democracies. Vagina eggs never could.

 

 

 

Edited by pamojja, 15 April 2020 - 11:10 AM.

[pamojja]

And of course hate-speech like below, always bears witness to the mental state of the propagator oneself.
 

Perhaps those with pathologically low intelligence and/or high gullibility, and those with certain mental health problems like schizotypy (which predispose people to believing in conspiracy theories), should not be allowed to post comments online at all. These people are the enemy of free speech, because free speech is about letting people speak the truth.

 
You're really challanging me, to find and link to an old post about the nature of your mental health problems in the past? - Seems one always fights externaly, which one hasn't integrated within oneself.

 

These are inviolable human rights! With limited intelligence, anhedonia, depression or schizophreny - doesn't matter. May all of us be well, and make use of our basi human rights. Which some, like Hip, are always out to take away for their own advantage. In this case for the questionable pleassure, to be able for short moments to feel better himself.

Edited by pamojja, 15 April 2020 - 11:34 AM.

[pamojja]

My own updated calculation of the state all countries affected:

 

 

 15.04a.png   120.06KB   0 downloads

 15.04b.png   105.19KB   0 downloads

 15.04c.png   96KB   0 downloads

 

4 weeks ago (18 March) - there were 20 countries that had tested at least 1000 Covid positives. Only Italy had a somewhat unusual mortality rate at that time, compared to its very low rate in 2017. 5% of countries.
 
9 days later (27 March), there were already 43 countries with more than 1000 Covid positives tested. Of these, the countries with high pneumonia mortality have risen to 3 (San Marino, Italy and Spain). 7% of countries.
 
Only 5 days later, on April 1st, there were 50 countries with more than 1000 positive covids, and already 7 countries with remarkably high mortality. 14% of the countries affected. A doubling in 5 days!
 
Now after 2 more weeks 87 countries with more than 1000 positive tested. 14 countries with higher mortality. 16% of the countries affected. It has really slowed down!

 

 

Also note - though I really down know how they so fast could update numbers - in Italy the population allegedly had grown during the last 4 weeks by 155 985.

And did you know that there are actually 2 countries in Africa (Sierra Leone and Nigeria), which already during an ordinary year have even higher pneumonia mortality, than was sadly reached in Italy by now? (source) - What a sad planet we are living on.

Edited by pamojja, 15 April 2020 - 11:56 AM.

[Hip]

These are inviolable human rights! With limited intelligence, anhedonia, depression or schizophreny - doesn't matter. May all of us be well, and make use of our basi human rights. Which some, like Hip, are always out to take away for their own advantage. In this case for the questionable pleassure, to be able for short moments to feel better himself.

 
Perhaps you would argue it was Adolf Hitler inviolable human right too feed Germany with all that occult religious bullshit and political propaganda that eventually roused that nation into war on the rest of the world, with a final death toll of 60 million.

 

And perhaps if you lived at that time, maybe you yourself would have become mesmerized by Hitler's mad but charismatic speeches and occult spirituality, and agreed with what he said. Then you would have been inadvertently drawn into his evil scheme.

 

Adolf Hitler is in fact a good example of why those with certain mental health disorders (Hitler was thought to be bipolar) should not be given a platform to spread their dangerous message. 

 

 

Historically society has always prevented those with serious mental health delusions from interacting with the rest of the world: in the past we would usually lock them in asylums. These days, the trend is to let those with mental health issues live in the community, which generally is a lot better for them, as asylums were often horrible and cruel places. However, doing that involves a risk to society.

 

But it is only certain mental health conditions which are problematic to society: people with psychosis symptoms (which includes schizotypy and other schizophrenia-spectrum disorders, as well as bipolar I) can have substantial delusions which cause them to immerse themselves deeply in conspiracy theory thinking, terrorist radicalization, or other nutty agendas, often with dangerous results. 

 

Whereas people with depression, bipolar II, anxiety, OCD, Aspergers, autism, and others rarely cause problems for the world. 

 

 

You might like to read about how the poor parents of the children killed in the Sandy Hook massacre, after suffering the terrible loss of a child, were then afterwards abused and threaten by mad conspiracy theorists who claimed Sandy Hook was staged by actors. There are some really stupid and deluded people in this world, who can be harmful and dangerous.

 

Free speech should not be given to the dangerously mentally deluded who suffer with psychosis, because these people are a risk to society, as Hitler's story demonstrates. And free speech should not be given to spreaders of fake news: people who have zero respect for truth should not be given a platform where they can reach and potentially delude millions of people.

 

Free speech and respect for the truth go hand in hand. 

 

Fake news is a great danger to truth and free speech, and authorities everywhere are trying to get to grips with the fake news issue.

Edited by Hip, 15 April 2020 - 03:03 PM.

[Danail Bulgaria]

How to understand which news are fake?

[Danail Bulgaria]

P.S.

 

With the risk of rising some spirits here, I think, that I found a possible answer on why the death from other diseases is dropping while people are dying from COVID-19.

That was a main argument in the doctor's video.

The reason is in the issue itself. They didn't die for example from the heart disease, that they "normally" should, because they died earlier from the coronavirus. Thus the mortality from heart diseases drops, and that from the virus rises. There is no other way arround.

[Hip]

How to understand which news are fake?

 

That's the crux of the issue, because it is not very easy to detect fake news. 

 

Unlike insane conspiracy theory thinking, fake news does not necessarily have to be produced by someone with poor mental health. Producing fake news for the purpose of political propaganda is in fact now a lucrative industry. Countries like Macedonia have whole factories dedicated to producing fake news for clients who are willing to pay for it. 

[Danail Bulgaria]

Do you mean North Macedonia? lol It's not as their population not to be brainwashed on many topics.

 

I personally choose for myself to believe, that there is actually a COVID-19 pandemy, that this virus is dangerous, and I have to protect from it. If I don't manage to, to heal it as soon as possible.

 

My protection for now is based on "do not let the virus in your body" bases - masks, helmets, sterilization, hands washing.

 

Edited by seivtcho, 15 April 2020 - 03:24 PM.

[Hip]

Do you mean North Macedonia? lol It's not as their population not to be brainwashed on many topics.

 

Yes, the Republic of North Macedonia. Just Google search for Macedonia Fake News US Elections. 

[BlueCloud]

Yeah ok, we know there is a LOT of crap and mind-boggling crazy stuff out there. But I’m not sure what this thread is going to achieve. I mean, most people on this forum already tend to be rather more rational and scientifically minded than the norm, so you’re preaching to the converted. 
it would be far more efficient to debunk the crazy stuff where they are posted in general. On Twitter. Facebook, the comments columns of news outlets, etc..

 

Unless it’s for humour purposes, but i think the «  coronavirus alternative views and theories » thread already achieves that 

Edited by BlueCloud, 15 April 2020 - 03:35 PM.

[Hip]

But I’m not sure what this thread is going to achieve. I mean, most people on this forum already tend to be rather more rational and scientifically minded than the norm

 

Yes, many people perhaps, but I have seen posts on this forum claiming SARS-CoV-2 was created by the Chinese as a bioweapon, a conspiracy theory for which there is zero evidence. 

 

There are also others here who claim the coronavirus is nothing to worry about, it's all just media hype, and no more serious than the flu.

 

So this is a thread to counter such conspiracy and fringe views, which may perhaps help maintain scientific standards on this forum.

Edited by Hip, 15 April 2020 - 03:43 PM.

[Danail Bulgaria]

In my modest experience I may say, that the people who have choosen to believe in alternative theories will continue to follow them, no matter how you debunk. Second, if they have made their decision already, why I would bother it? Its a free world, right?

 

I had an offline conversation a day ago with a man, who does not believe, that the COVID-19 even exists. He asked me:

 

- How to believe you?

 

I ansered him politely:

 

- Don't. Take off your mask, take your supplements, and go jogging the neighbourhood on fresh air.

[Danail Bulgaria]

Our obligation as a human being is to share our oppinion.

 

Since then everyone gets an informed agreement, or informed disagreement.

 

The most important is if something happens you to be with a clear consciousness, that you have warned him. Thats all.

[Hip]

I had an offline conversation a day ago with a man, who does not believe, that the COVID-19 even exists. He asked me:
 
- How to believe you?
 
I ansered him politely:
 
- Don't. Take off your mask, take your supplements, and go jogging the neighbourhood on fresh air.

 
Yes, call it black humor, but it is kind of amusing when religious evangelists preach that coronavirus is all just a lot of nonsense, and the media should be ignored, and then catch the virus and die from it! There have been a few such cases.

 

It's often the evangelists who will deny science, making their views dangerous for their congregations. 

 

 

 

In my modest experience I may say, that the people who have choosen to believe in alternative theories will continue to follow them, no matter how you debunk. Second, if they have made their decision already, why I would bother it? Its a free world, right?

 

To a certain extent I agree: there are some people who will never change their views, no matter how much scientific evidence you provide them, as they have never learnt to think rationally and logically. 

 

But there are others who are more reasonable, and who will eventually see sense, once they are provided with reasonable evidence, and once any bullshit conspiracy theories are debunked. So it is worth making the effort with these more reasonable people.

 

 

Edited by Hip, 15 April 2020 - 04:00 PM.