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coronavirus alternative views & theories

coronavirus covid-19

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#481 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 03 June 2020 - 07:57 PM

Maybe instead of forcefully dispersing a peaceful crowd—simply because there was a non-peaceful one the night before—the president should have rather simply called off the photo op at the Church?  He's just too vain for that though, he'd rather harm hundreds than inconvenience himself.

 

 

You're right that Fauci can go on News interviews.  He has been doing so lately voicing his concerns.  But that's different from being given room to speak at the WH press conferences, a privilege which he is clearly denied of late.  It's all part of a systematic right-wing effort to misinform the public and take control of the situation.

 

So, unless Trump has a daily White House briefing and invites Fauci to criticize him in that briefing, there is a systematic right-wing effort to misinform the public?

 

Are you saying there isn't enough of a dissenting viewpoint from the White House in the mainstream media?  Because I don't see that when I turn on the evening news, read the major news papers, or look at reddit or any of the other major social media.  Seems like there is plenty of dissent.

 

Is it simply that you don't like what the White House/Trump is saying and you wish it were shut down?  


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#482 mikeinnaples

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Posted 03 June 2020 - 08:02 PM

I agree that it 'probably' wasn't possible in Feb. People will point out that he was initially warned at the end of January about a 'possible' pandemic in the works, but it didn't look 'probable' for quite some time due to China suppressing information. You can't rightfully cast blame about that. However it does fall on his administration for disbanding the pandemic response team. It also falls on his administration and the ones prior for for not having existing stockpiles in place to deal with a respiratory pandemic. The world has known pretty much forever that it was a matter of 'when' not 'if' it would occur. The SARS/MERS scare along with the 2009 pandemic should have been enough fairly recent reinforcement for that to have occurred. Lastly, it is also fully on Trump for not actually using the Defense Production Act right away because he didn't want to force companies and expected them to 'do the right thing'. It also falls on the Trump administration for not taking a central leadership role at the time we needed it most. We had states competing with states for PPE and states losing bids to foreign entities. That never should have been allowed to happen.


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#483 gamesguru

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Posted 03 June 2020 - 08:26 PM

So, unless Trump has a daily White House briefing and invites Fauci to criticize him in that briefing, there is a systematic right-wing effort to misinform the public?

 

Are you saying there isn't enough of a dissenting viewpoint from the White House in the mainstream media?  Because I don't see that when I turn on the evening news, read the major news papers, or look at reddit or any of the other major social media.  Seems like there is plenty of dissent.

 

Is it simply that you don't like what the White House/Trump is saying and you wish it were shut down?  

 

No, i don't want anything shut down.  I just want a more balanced perspective across all board members, so that no one feels muzzles and the public opinion doesn't become biased too far right.  And when this is taken to the extreme, the preludes of which are seen in Trump trying to sue Twitter and muzzle Fauci, it starts to stink of authoritarianism.  That's all.  That's really all, if you don't agree keep watching your favorite news station(s), it's fine my friend, every little thing will work right out.


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#484 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 03 June 2020 - 08:35 PM

I agree that it 'probably' wasn't possible in Feb. People will point out that he was initially warned at the end of January about a 'possible' pandemic in the works, but it didn't look 'probable' for quite some time due to China suppressing information. You can't rightfully cast blame about that. However it does fall on his administration for disbanding the pandemic response team. It also falls on his administration and the ones prior for for not having existing stockpiles in place to deal with a respiratory pandemic. The world has known pretty much forever that it was a matter of 'when' not 'if' it would occur. The SARS/MERS scare along with the 2009 pandemic should have been enough fairly recent reinforcement for that to have occurred. Lastly, it is also fully on Trump for not actually using the Defense Production Act right away because he didn't want to force companies and expected them to 'do the right thing'. It also falls on the Trump administration for not taking a central leadership role at the time we needed it most. We had states competing with states for PPE and states losing bids to foreign entities. That never should have been allowed to happen.

 

The problem with stockpiling supplies for a pandemic, is you don't know which pandemic you're going to get.  This time it was an upper respiratory infection.  What if it were a hemorrhagic fever (dengue/Marburg/ebola) instead? There's be a need for some masks, but those infections are primarily spread through contact with body fluids.  It's really hard to cover all bases. 

 

That's why I think it makes much more sense to fund a broad based response like DRACO.  We don't know what the next pandemic will be, but it will almost certainly be viral in nature. We have broad spectrum antibiotics now which still mostly work, which is why we don't get bacterial pandemics any more.  We need a similar tool in our arsenal for viral infections. 

 

As far as the Defense Production Act, it was threatened for use to make companies produce ventilators which it turned out we didn't need.  Could it have been used to make companies produce masks? Certainly it could have.  But there is a non-zero start up time from when you say go till when a manufacturer is geared up to produce a new product, even for something as simple as a mask.  And as it turned out, the existing mask producers were able to increase their capacity faster than new production in the US could be brought on line, so the DPA was a non-issue there as well.  What items do you believe Trump should have used the DPA to force the production of? 

 

With respect to the pandemic response team, what would we be doing differently now had they not been disbanded?  It would still come down to a judgement call between shutting down a great deal of the economy versus lifting the lock downs.  I can't image that if it were still around the outcome of that decision which has been made (with some cajoling in some cases from the White House) by the states would be materially different.   

 

I think you guys believe there are more degrees of freedom in this problem than actually exists.  Once again, my evidence of that is that very different governments (France, Italy, Spain, the UK, etc.) have produced broadly similar results.  Trump doesn't control those countries yet their and our results are not so different, with ours in most cases being somewhat better.  

 

The only standouts have been Taiwan, South Korea, and Germany.  Taiwan and South Korea completely ignored what the Chinese were saying in early January and assumed it was transmitting human to human and made a very aggressive response.  They stuck the genie back in the bottle before it got all the way out.

 

Germany is the mystery to me. They are a major Western European country and they've done much better than their counterparts in Europe and US.  Gamesguru thinks it's because they tested 2% of their population early.  I'm skeptical of that because saying that you tested 2% of your population is the same as saying you didn't test 98%.  I have a hard time believing that this low level of test penetration was the determining factor in their outcome.  Testing is always good and I wish the US had gotten up to speed quicker and they are to be faulted for that lapse, no question.  It will be interesting to watch the story unfold as to why Germany did so well.


Edited by Daniel Cooper, 03 June 2020 - 08:47 PM.

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#485 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 03 June 2020 - 08:42 PM

No, i don't want anything shut down.  I just want a more balanced perspective across all board members, so that no one feels muzzles and the public opinion doesn't become biased too far right.  And when this is taken to the extreme, the preludes of which are seen in Trump trying to sue Twitter and muzzle Fauci, it starts to stink of authoritarianism.  That's all.  That's really all, if you don't agree keep watching your favorite news station(s), it's fine my friend, every little thing will work right out.

 

I see the media balancing Trump all the time. Outside of Fox News, it's hard to see many outlets supporting the White House, and Fox is merely preaching the the choir.  Is there any major network news or national news paper that is favorable to Trump?  Even the Wall Street Journal's editorial page leans pretty heavily against him.  I just don't see your fear that the only view being discussed being Trump's as the reality. 

 

And isn't Trump threatening to sue Twitter for censoring his posts?  I haven't kept up with that but if so that's hardly quelling dissent.  I don't think any social media platforms should be censoring anyone's published opinions unless they cross a legal boundary - i.e. calling for violence, libel, etc.


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#486 gamesguru

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Posted 03 June 2020 - 09:12 PM

I see the media balancing Trump all the time.

 

Remarkably similar to how Trump endlessly bashes the media for fairly criticizing his blunders and indecencies.

 

Trump has never hesitated to celebrate the demise of credible news agencies in his pitiful battle against the truth.  He supported right-wing protests with guns in the Michigan capitol building but now condemns the D.C. protests as unlawful.  He'd rather kill everyone that admit that black lives matter.  The Republicans that talk about needing guns to fight a tyrannical government are pretty fucking quiet right now.

 

So again, you're inciting a straw man.  I never said no one criticizes Trump, the media clearly does.  I merely asserted that he attempts to silence all opposition, which is obviously indicative of a dictator in the works.  Take those Fox News glasses off for just one second my friend.

 

Great News: The boring but very nasty magazine, The Atlantic, is rapidly failing, going down the tubes, and has just been forced to announce it is laying off at least 20% of its staff in order to limp into the future. This is a tough time to be in the Fake News Business!

 

Trump's tweet wasn't censored, I suggest you buy a dictionary buddy.  It was labeled with a warning, not censored.  Trump is seeking to shut down Twitter.  Again, read up on the definition of censorship please and thank you.

 

That's in contrast to Matt Gaetz' tweet glorifying violence which was actually censored, or moreso slapped with a NSFW label, as it is still technically accessible though not likeable or retweetable.


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#487 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 03 June 2020 - 09:31 PM

Do you imagine that Obama would not have uttered a celebration if Fox News were going out of business?  Not in a tweet, I'll give you that.  But in a speech?  I'm pretty sure he would have noted it.

 

Can we not disagree on politics without being at each other's throats here?  This is why the US is coming apart at the seams.  That is not a Trump phenomena btw, it was happening before he was elected and his election is rather a symptom of that disintegration in the country's coherency.  

 

As far as Twitter is concerned, I simply do not feel it is their place to attach warnings to a politician's tweets and suspect you would concur if they were doing so to a politician with whom you agreed.   You seem to be savvy towards issues of technology and social media.  So you no doubt understand that there is this whole issue of "platforms" versus "publishers".  What twitter, facebook, youtube, etc. are seeking to do is retain the legal protections of being a platform whilst exercising editorial control over the content they convey like a publisher.  That's fundamentally unfair and should not be allowed.  If you want to be a publisher, be a publisher, and accept the legal consequences that go with that status.  Otherwise, be a platform and don't issue "warnings" like that.  You should not be allowed to have it both ways.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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#488 gamesguru

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Posted 03 June 2020 - 10:12 PM

Do you imagine that Obama would not have uttered a celebration if Fox News were going out of business?

 

Probably not honestly.  But if he did, language matters.  Obama is a refined, well-spoken aristocratic.. Trump is a disrespectful, rough around the edges, maniacal clown.

 

America is not coming apart at the seams because of debates like this where right-wing nuts get owned and talk themselves in circles.  It's because those nuts exist at all.  People so blind to the truth they're willing to stand up for a fascist party, it's not about democracy or belief anymore it's just blind partisan allegiance.. standing up for the bible in some vague defense of conservatives' values

 

That's fine if you feel it is not Twitter's place.  Twitter is free to fact check this loon.  And your feeling about it doesn't validate your ridiculous claims from two posts ago that they are "censoring" Trump, when in fact he is the one aggressively seeking to censor opposition.  I'm sorry Twitter applied a warning label your hero, but he's going to lose hard to creepy Joe in November anyways so may as well get used to it.  Can't hide in denial forever bud


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#489 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 03 June 2020 - 10:47 PM

Question - is everyone that disagrees with you on political issues "nuts" or a "loon"? 

 

Don't you think we've taken this off topic far enough?  The covid response is pretty intertwined with politics, but this just doesn't seem to be going anywhere, does it?

 

 

 


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#490 gamesguru

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Posted 04 June 2020 - 12:34 AM

Question - is everyone that disagrees with you on political issues "nuts" or a "loon"? 

 

Don't you think we've taken this off topic far enough?  The covid response is pretty intertwined with politics, but this just doesn't seem to be going anywhere, does it?

 

No, just the ones that pull false statements out of the behind regularly and are clinging to reality by a thread.

 

I think you've taken this far enough, yes.


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#491 gamesguru

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Posted 04 June 2020 - 01:31 PM

Florida and Sweden have experienced MASSIVE surges in the past few days and weeks.  It's just a painful reminder to remain skeptical of our leaders and not go blindly off their cliff.

 

It's now clear the virus has a propensity to spread outside normal respiratory illness season (Nov-Mar in the North, Jul-Dec in the South).  This is all DESPITE social distancing efforts which were adopted even in places like Sweden and supposed to MASSIVELY FLATTEN the curve.  We have flattened it but still not enough, and certainly not enough for the Fall flu season!  We must stay united in this battle and not let our own personal greed cloud our conscience.  Thank you.


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#492 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 04 June 2020 - 01:38 PM

And yet Florida with a population of 21.5 million has 2,567 deaths versus New York State with a population of 19.5 million and 30,164 deaths.

 

Some have alleged that Florida is "cooking the books".  Even if they are cooking the books by a factor of 2 (seems unlikely but lets go with it) then NY is still 5.9 times worse than FL.

 

 


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#493 gamesguru

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Posted 04 June 2020 - 01:49 PM

And yet Florida with a population of 21.5 million has 2,567 deaths versus New York State with a population of 19.5 million and 30,164 deaths.

 

Let's dissect this naivete one gross error at a time.

 

First, we're once again linearly equating deaths with leadership competence?  I suppose Jeff Bezos also worked 30% harder in the last 3 weeks when his stonks jumped 30%?  Damn logic.

 

Secondly the comparison is made between two places with WILDLY different POPULATION DENSITIES.  Over 90% of the fatalities in New York state were from NYC suburban area.  The population density is about three times higher, and there is a subway system and a lot more community service.  Unfair to disregard these as factors, in fact, the population density is a HUGE FACTOR.  Please see the attached diagram and kindly pen your response.  Thank you.

 

And last of all it disregards timing.  The epidemic clearly started earlier in New York, and coincided more neatly with influenza season.  This clearly makes DeSantis look better than he deserves credit for.  He's done nothing to protect his elderly population besides assure them everything is just peachy


Edited by gamesguru, 04 June 2020 - 01:50 PM.

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#494 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 04 June 2020 - 01:53 PM

Let's dissect this naivete one gross error at a time.
 
First, we're once again linearly equating deaths with leadership competence?  I suppose Jeff Bezos also worked 30% harder in the last 3 weeks when his stonks jumped 30%?  Damn logic.
 
Secondly the comparison is made between two places with WILDLY different POPULATION DENSITIES.  Over 90% of the fatalities in New York state were from NYC suburban area.  The population density is about three times higher, and there is a subway system and a lot more community service.  Unfair to disregard these as factors, in fact, the population density is a HUGE FACTOR.  Please see the attached diagram and kindly pen your response.  Thank you.
 
And last of all it disregards timing.  The epidemic clearly started earlier in New York, and coincided more neatly with influenza season.  This clearly makes DeSantis look better than he deserves credit for.  He's done nothing to protect his elderly population besides assure them everything is just peachy



Wait, haven't you been "linearly equating deaths with leadership competence" for months now in comparing US covid deaths with Germany and South Korea?  Isn't that exactly what you've been doing?
 
So now you're saying different populations and different regions face different challenges in controlling this pandemic?  Well, that's been my position all along.  Welcome aboard!


Edited by Daniel Cooper, 04 June 2020 - 01:55 PM.

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#495 gamesguru

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Posted 04 June 2020 - 01:56 PM

Wait, haven't you been "linearly equating deaths with leadership competence" for months now in comparing US covid deaths with Germany and South Korea?  Isn't that exactly what you've been doing?
 
So now you're saying different populations and different regions face different challenges in controlling this pandemic?  Well, that's been my position.  Welcome aboard!

 

No we went over this.  I stated that Merkel's response was more personable and well-refined than Trump's demeanor.  Thank you for the repeated assumptions though friend.

 

I have made the argument with Vietnam, but there is clearly a NON-LINEAR relationship there.  How can you compare 100,000 deaths to ZERO?  Do you even math bro :)  This is a RELATIVE comparision, i.e. Florida today with Florida three weeks ago.  And Sweden is getting raped by next door Nordic countries that have broadly similar demographics.  The Florida response is absolutely inpalpable and will get people killed.  Anyone not paying attention to the uptick is a right-wing toolbag, anyone not paying attention to demographic parallels or differences is of neanderthal intelligence


Edited by gamesguru, 04 June 2020 - 01:58 PM.

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#496 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 04 June 2020 - 01:59 PM

No we went over this.  I stated that Merkel's response was more personable and well-refined than Trump's demeanor.  Thank you for the repeated assumptions though friend.

 

I have made the argument with Vietnam, but there is clearly a NON-LINEAR relationship there.  How can you compare 100,000 deaths to ZERO?  Do you even math bro :)

 

So we've moved on from actual hard data to soft metrics like "personable and well-defined"? 


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#497 gamesguru

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Posted 04 June 2020 - 02:00 PM

So we've moved on from actual hard data to soft metrics like "personable and well-defined"? 

 

It's impossible to compare the competence of two wildly different demographics based on death statistics.  It's impossible to make any appeal to fact this early.  So yes, all we can really do is make personal judgments about their professionalism or lack thereof :laugh:


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#498 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 04 June 2020 - 02:01 PM

It's impossible to compare the competence of two wildly different demographics based on death statistics.  It's impossible to make any appeal to fact this early.  So yes, all we can really do is make personal judgments about their professionalism or lack thereof :laugh:

 

So you're going to swear off doing this in the future?  I certainly applaud that.


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#499 gamesguru

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Posted 04 June 2020 - 02:02 PM

So you're going to swear off doing this in the future?  I certainly applaud that.

 

I never have lol, it's you that needs to sign the plea.  Let me summon some minions up to quote your ridiculous rhetoric :-D


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#500 Florin

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Posted 05 June 2020 - 03:54 AM

Masks? Blame games? Oh man, this is gonna be fun. So fun that I decided to start a separate thread about it.

 

https://www.longecit...-this-pandemic/


Edited by Florin, 05 June 2020 - 04:04 AM.


#501 Mind

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Posted 06 June 2020 - 09:20 AM

There is an "alternative view" (this thread), that the coronavirus pandemic over-reaction was all about politics/control and not so much about protecting people. With the protests erupting around the world in the last 10 days, I would say that the people who claimed it was more about control, have been proven correct.

 

Remember the man who was arrested for paddle-boarding ALONE in the Pacific ocean because he was a threat to everyone, spreading and uber-infectious, uber-deadly disease.

 

Now in California you can protest in very large groups....no problem. What disease? What pandemic? No worries?

 

Either

 

1. This was never an uber-infectious, uber deadly disease, that was going to infect and kill large swaths of society,

 

or 

 

2. As long as you have the correct political leanings, you can do whatever you want. Super-spreading, devastating your community, and killing who knows how many people, just fine, as long as you belong to the correct political party.

 

I side with number 1 for the most part. This coronavirus is more deadly than other coronaviruses, but it has always been a disease that has primarily affected a small fraction of the population - the frail elderly and the obese with chronic health issues. The over-reaction to the pandemic quickly became a political tool more than an effort to protect people. All of the lockdown nonsense, all of the pain, misery, and future lives lost to the over-reaction, could have been avoided if a more targeted protective approach was taken.

 

Seeing all of the protests around the world being allowed without regard to public health, why should anyone believe anything public health authorities say about COVID-19?


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#502 gamesguru

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Posted 06 June 2020 - 01:59 PM

Conspiracy hour :ph34r:

 

Look man, some silly decisions were made sure, but not with ill intentions.  Boating?  Closing garden shops?  Sure, silly.  A decision made running out of ideas, sure.  But not a systematic, malicious or planned attack on the first amendment.  Seems like a right-wing conspiracy to me.

 

The virus is about 1% lethal.  The only people buying into 0.1% are the same ones who still buy into the flawed antibody studies.  So yeah, 1% is super bad.  We've had nearly 1 out of 500 citizens die of COVID already in my county, and new cases are being reported at sufficient rate that I can only say the battle isn't even at half-time yet.

 

The protests aren't being "allowed" actually.  Over 11,000 people failing to disperse have been arrested in the US.  Cuomo has publicly denounced them as petri dishes for corona and told everyone who attended a rally to assume they had COVID and to please self-quarantine.

 

The POTUS dispersed one with tear gas and rubber bullets, and now fenced in the White House.  POTUS is hardly allowing anything.


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#503 Florin

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Posted 06 June 2020 - 06:41 PM

This is a pandemic caused by stupidity. If there was universal mask wearing from the start, there would be no pandemic today. But almost everyone seems to want to learn this lesson the hard way. Hopefully, the lesson will be learned and that will avoid worse pandemics and idiotic policy responses like lockdowns in the future.

 

As for the protests, most of the protesters are wearing masks and they're outdoors, so it's low risk. Public health authorities are "worried," but who cares; most of them should be fired anyway. But they probably won't be, because politicians would have to admit that they relied on a bunch of morons for public health advice.


Edited by Florin, 06 June 2020 - 07:04 PM.

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#504 gamesguru

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Posted 07 June 2020 - 10:11 AM

This is a pandemic caused by stupidity.

 

At this point we can just call them Republicans.  I warned everyone to wear a mask in Feburary, but all my right-wing friends called me fringe.  Sadly one of them lost their Grandmother to COVID in April.


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#505 Mind

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Posted 07 June 2020 - 02:29 PM

Here it is in black-and-white. The continued quarantine, the continued suppression of most activities is 100% political. Health experts say protests are fine....all other activities are not.

 

https://www.cnn.com/...trnd/index.html

 

Why should anyone follow any health advice from any "health" authorities? Within an instant we went from no one can go to church, everyone has to social distance, you can't open your business, you have to wear a mask walking alone in a state forest, no handshaking, basically forever, because there is a super-deadly super-infectious disease devastating the globe.

 

To now - gather by the thousands - whatever (as long as you have the correct political leanings).


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#506 Florin

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Posted 07 June 2020 - 06:31 PM

At this point we can just call them Republicans.  I warned everyone to wear a mask in Feburary, but all my right-wing friends called me fringe.  Sadly one of them lost their Grandmother to COVID in April.

 

Most of the experts were saying NOT to wear a mask because they didn't work and might even make things worse. Who were you to question the experts? Did you want to make things worse?


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#507 gamesguru

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Posted 07 June 2020 - 08:24 PM

Here it is in black-and-white. The continued quarantine, the continued suppression of most activities is 100% political. Health experts say protests are fine....all other activities are not.

 

https://www.cnn.com/...trnd/index.html

 

Why should anyone follow any health advice from any "health" authorities? Within an instant we went from no one can go to church, everyone has to social distance, you can't open your business, you have to wear a mask walking alone in a state forest, no handshaking, basically forever, because there is a super-deadly super-infectious disease devastating the globe.

 

To now - gather by the thousands - whatever (as long as you have the correct political leanings).

 

The "continued suppression" is due to expire soon.

  • California schools, gyms and bars to reopen June 12
  • Whitmer ends Michigan's stay home order, allows bars and restaurants to reopen June 8
  • Massachusetts Reopening: Phase 2 To Begin Monday, June 8

No "health experts" said the protests are fine.  No democratic or independent governor even said they were fine.  Afaik, they all complained about lack of masks and social distancing.  In fact 11,000 people had been arrested at least for failure to disperse.  I think less arrests have been made in recent days because it's just a mass psychosis phenomenon and you can't stop millions of people protesting and they hope it'll calm down after another week or so.  Short of calling in the national guard or throwing maskless offenders in prison cells—which doesn't improve things—there's nothing to do.  I mean honestly at the grocery store not even everyone wears a mask, but there doesn't seem to be any police there enforcing it or carrying the dissenters out.  It just sort of seems like as long as most of the participants are wearing a mask, the culture is complicit and authority won't intervene.

 

Not sure about your place of resident but here there is no requirement to wear a mask walking alone in the forest.  You don't even need it until entering a well-defined place of social predominance, e.g. store, mall, gas station.

 

The only reason they imposed so many restrictions in mid-March was because we fell so far behind the curve.  The IMHE projections were telling Newsom and Cuomo they could run out of hospital beds and have their health care workers have to reject people or treat them on the ground.  Seeing as they're democrats—and ostensibly not sociopaths—they wanted to make sure the predicted influx of sick old people would have enough ICU beds, even if it meant taking away Friday nights out from Gen Xers and Millennials for the Spring/Summer.

 

The real health "authority" not to trust is the POTUS who, unlike the independent and democrat governors, did not criticize or comment on or issue arrests against the lack of social distancing and the lack of masks at the "anti-lockdown protests" in April and May.  It was the guy who conveniently delayed closures of beaches past Spring break.  You know, the same ones mixing up data at their daily briefings.  The same ones blindly parroting quite flimsy antibody studies, and claiming as late as March that the flu was more deadly.  Yeah, those are the ones to trust.


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#508 Florin

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Posted 07 June 2020 - 11:39 PM

The only reason they imposed so many restrictions in mid-March was because we fell so far behind the curve.  The IMHE projections were telling Newsom and Cuomo they could run out of hospital beds and have their health care workers have to reject people or treat them on the ground.

 

There were two options, lockdowns or mask wearing. They chose to ape China instead of going with what Hong Kong, Taiwan, South Korea, and Japan were doing. And in mid-March they were still claiming that masks don't work. Why? Because they're grossly incompetent. I can't think of any other reason for not knowing what the experts in those countries knew for some time already.


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#509 gamesguru

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Posted 08 June 2020 - 01:29 AM

There were two options, lockdowns or mask wearing. They chose to ape China instead of going with what Hong Kong, Taiwan, South Korea, and Japan were doing. And in mid-March they were still claiming that masks don't work. Why? Because they're grossly incompetent. I can't think of any other reason for not knowing what the experts in those countries knew for some time already.

 

No there weren't there were a spectrum of options.  We already discussed how having hundreds of millions of masks in February wasn't practical, and it wasn't the only way—or even a guaranteed way—to mitigate the pandemic.

 

We could have implemented more temperature checks at airports early on, limited travel, had actual testing capacity and contact tracing in February.  We could have done a lot of things early on that would have prevented March from being such an "explosive" or exponential month.  Like most countries in Europe, we view this as an 'Asia-only' problem until it was too late however.  Probably next time this happens we will be more prepared and learn from this lol.  A top Korean doctor said pandemics are likely to become more common.  If you look at H1N1 (2009) --> MERS (2014) it's 5 years, but only 4 years for MERS (2014) --> COVID-19 (2019).  So if anything we could likely deal with more pandemics, even perhaps despite efforts to not encroach on wildlife or trade at wet markets.


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#510 Florin

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Posted 08 June 2020 - 04:22 AM

No there weren't there were a spectrum of options.  We already discussed how having hundreds of millions of masks in February wasn't practical, and it wasn't the only way—or even a guaranteed way—to mitigate the pandemic.

 
That's not a good excuse. The experts could have screamed about masks years ago: "Everyone needs to stock up on masks in the event of a pandemic!" They could also have gone further and recommended elastomeric masks with N95 filters which guarantee the elimination of any viral pathogen and have a bunch of other advantages. But they're so dumb that they didn't even suggest wearing cloth masks which could have been instantly made by anyone. Instead, they claimed that makes were potentially harmful.
 
Just like Japan, you don't really need anything else besides mask wearing to eliminate a pandemic. And with the elastomeric N95s you don't even need real world examples. They'll just always work.


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