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coronavirus alternative views & theories

coronavirus covid-19

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#661 Heisok

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Posted 14 March 2021 - 04:09 PM

According to Reuters, the population receiving shots is very low.

 

https://graphics.reu...ories/bulgaria/

 

Vaccination

Bulgaria has administered at least 337,904 doses of COVID vaccines so far. Assuming every person needs 2 doses, that’s enough to have vaccinated about 2.4% of the country’s population.

About this data

This vaccine rollout data is reported by the number of doses of coronavirus vaccines administered, not the number of people who have been vaccinated. Because most vaccines require two doses and many countries have different schedules to deliver the second dose, we don’t know with this data how many people have ultimately received both doses.

 

During the last week reported, Bulgaria averaged about 8,674 doses administered each day. At that rate, it will take a further 161 days to administer enough doses for another 10% of the population.

Vaccination

 

 


Edited by Heisok, 14 March 2021 - 04:11 PM.

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#662 Danail Bulgaria

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Posted 14 March 2021 - 05:19 PM

And in the long run how many of the vaccinated are prone to infection and how many take the infection by foot.



#663 Mind

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Posted 09 May 2021 - 09:04 AM

What is going on at the health buraeucracies?!

 

First they won't allow proven beneficial treatments that could save millions of lives.

 

Now they seemed determined to NOT report vaccinated people getting ill. Latest guidance from the CDC says a PCR test of less than 28 cycles should be used to determine if a vaccinated person gets ill. For unvaccinated people, Dr. Fauci says 35 cycles. Last year testing centers were using up to 40 cycles (OR MORE!!) on the PCR test (which many experts deem as meaningless).

 

This testing protocol seems "constructed" to make sure that no vaccinated people test positive for this coronavirus, but unvaccinated people do. 

 

Can anyone offer an explanation for this guidance from the CDC? Makes no sense to me.


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#664 Mind

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Posted 09 May 2021 - 09:19 AM

The media is disturbing lately.

 

Some of you might recall in the recent past that the U.S. was routinely criticized for allowing pharmaceuticals to be advertised on TV - a practice banned in the EU and most of the world.

 

Health advocates claim (or used to) that this has led to an epidemic - an over-reliance on drugs that come with many side-effects and makes the U.S. healthcare system the most expensive in the world. Instead of curing people, the U.S. healthcare system puts people on drugs.

 

Most age-related conditions/illness in the U.S. are lifestyle related. The U.S. is one of the most, drug-addicted, sedentary, and obese nations on earth.

 

So one would think that an unapproved experimental gene therapy would be looked upon with caution - by the health advocates who are (or used to be) suspicious of the motivations of large international corporations.

 

Instead we get VAX Live - one of the most disturbing propaganda efforts I have seen in my life.

 

All this, for an influenza-like illness that has an infection fatality rate of a small fraction of 1%, and this is mostly in people who are already ill (multiple co-morbidities), or old and frail. I have routinely argued for more efforts to help the older population stay safe and healthy - instead we get population-wide masking and lockdowns which have done little to help the situation.


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#665 frederickson

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Posted 10 May 2021 - 10:52 PM

well said, mind. 

 

coming from the perspective of faculty in an academic medical institution, it is incredibly alarming how lazy group think has completely coopted a subject that should be welcoming of scientific debate. 

 

the vaccine push feels far like propaganda more than science.


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#666 pamojja

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Posted 12 May 2021 - 02:19 PM

Back on topic of surpressed alternative views:

Virus & Vaccine Contained Human-Inserted Spike Protein Gene Sequences Which Producing Inflammation & Blood Clots - Dr.Richard Fleming

kxEN6xcSXC1z_640x360.jpg

 

Billions with Mad Cow disease in a year and a half? - I just pray all these tin-foil-hat wearing MDs and PHDs turn out death wrong. :sad:


Edited by pamojja, 12 May 2021 - 02:24 PM.

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#667 pamojja

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Posted 12 May 2021 - 02:30 PM

Finally the 'alternative' perspective also found some space on a mainstream Austrian TV station:

 

https://www.servustv...-27juub3a91w11/

 

(in German)



#668 Mind

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Posted 12 May 2021 - 03:20 PM

What is going on at the CDC? More incompetent (or unethical?) by the day.

 

CDC uses wildly misleading stats about outdoor transmission.



#669 Hip

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Posted 12 May 2021 - 03:55 PM

How people find all these quack researchers and junk science that they post links to? When I search Google for information, I do not get presented with quacks.

 

Is there a special search engine you use for finding quacks?

 

Like Quaackle.com perhaps?!

 

 

 

 

 


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#670 pamojja

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Posted 12 May 2021 - 04:24 PM

Such excessive hubris is even frowned upon by religions. 

 

Since you only have use of religion or alternative medicine for blaming others, you couldn't even know.

 

Why you think Jesus assured himself even trice, if a blind man really would want to see?

 

Maybe so that someone like Hip could say after consideration: "No wait, I prefer to blame your excessive conceit and hubris".
 


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#671 pamojja

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Posted 12 May 2021 - 05:25 PM

If you are an intelligent person, you take those stories with a pinch of salt, and understand them to be tales that exist in the mythological realm, not in the real world.

 

Well, at least metaphorical a blind man possibly not really wanting to see, is actualy right on the point here. ;)

 

..their excessive conceit and hubris: they think they can cure anything with a few herbs, which is just laughable.

Who said a few herbs? I said rigorous, consitent and comprehensive life-style changes, for many years in my case. All efforts dedictated without guarantee that it would work. You prefer to play blind for being able to blame?

 

Although getting ME/CFS is a high price to pay for such an education.

 

I just wish I could get others to understand the perspective I have finally understood.

 

The problem is, any chronic serious condition will always be the worst for the individual having to endure or die from.

 

Maybe a first step would be if you tried to understand those others? Than you would know what is involved for such a radical change in perspective, and maybe able to see: no-one has exclusive rights on suffering or blaming. We all do to a certain extent.

 

The only question is, how to reduce? - The answers will always be individual, and nothing to blame for.

 


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#672 Mind

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Posted 16 May 2021 - 10:19 AM

I didn't know where to post this, because it is so bizarre.

 

Ontario extends ban on outdoor activities.

 

There is almost zero evidence around the world of anyone contracting this virus outdoors. There is almost zero evidence that this virus is transmitted via surfaces. Yet Ontario bans outdoor recreation. Why are so many health bureaucrat anti-science? It is like a religion/cult now in Ontario.

 

Contrast this with Florida and many other states in the U.S. where there have been no bans, no extreme lockdowns, no mask mandates for a long time now. These places have not descended into chaos with heaping mounds of dead bodies on every street corner as was predicted by health bureaucrats.


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#673 pamojja

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Posted 20 May 2021 - 08:02 PM


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#674 Hebbeh

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Posted 22 May 2021 - 05:32 PM

Estimation of total mortality due to COVID-19 | Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation (healthdata.org)

 

COVID-19 has caused 6.9 million deaths globally, more than double what official reports show | Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation (healthdata.org)

 
The 20 countries with the highest number of total COVID-19 deaths, March 2020­–May 2021 
      Country                         Total COVID-19 deaths   Reported COVID-19 deaths 
United States of America    905,289                           574,043 
India                                    654,395                           221,181 
Mexico                                617,127                           217,694 
Brazil                                  595,903                           408,680 
Russian Federation            593,610                           109,334 
United Kingdom                 209,661                           150,519 
Italy                                    175,832                           121,257 
Iran                                    174,177                             72,906 
Egypt                                 170,041                             13,529 
South Africa                       160,452                             54,390 
Poland                               149,855                             68,237 
Peru                                   147,765                            62,739 
Ukraine                              138,507                            46,737 
France                               132,680                          105,506 
Spain                                 123,786                            85,365 
Germany                           120,729                            83,256 
Indonesia                          115,743                             45,938 
Japan                                108,320                            10,390 
Romania                             87,649                            28,382 
Kazakhstan                         81,696                              5,620 
 

 

 



#675 Advocatus Diaboli

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Posted 22 May 2021 - 05:54 PM

Re: post #674:

Before anyone gets too excited about IHME's latest claim based on their model results, you might want to have a look at some of these articles commenting on IHME's earlier model (link also includes comments on their latest model).


Edited by Advocatus Diaboli, 22 May 2021 - 05:58 PM.

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#676 Mind

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Posted 24 May 2021 - 06:26 PM

Yet another politician flagrantly violates COVID rules. This has happened so many times that a critical-thinking person has to be suspicious. Obviously these leaders, politicians and health bureaucrats, do not view COVID as a threat.

 

Remember some politicians were caught on camera admitting it was all political theatre.


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#677 Mind

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Posted 24 May 2021 - 10:32 PM

Websites and fact-checkers were likely wrong about the lab origin of COVID. There was a lot of evidence that pointed to gain-of-function research at the Wuhan Lab early last year. Instead of exploring the story, the national media, various fact-checking sites, and health bureaucrats hastened to demean anyone asking questions as "covidiots" and other slurs.

 

Blind allegiance to authority, Google, Facebook, and bureaucrats who are not rigorous scientists, researchers, or doctors has been a huge problem over the past year. When no questions or critical thinking are allowed, then poor outcomes are more likely.

 

VOX now stealth editing their "debunking" of the lab origin of COVID.

 

Why is no one questioning the suspicious changes in the accounting of COVID cases by the CDC?


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#678 Marconius

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Posted 25 May 2021 - 07:36 AM



Websites and fact-checkers were likely wrong about the lab origin of COVID. There was a lot of evidence that pointed to gain-of-function research at the Wuhan Lab early last year. Instead of exploring the story, the national media, various fact-checking sites, and health bureaucrats hastened to demean anyone asking questions as "covidiots" and other slurs.

 

Blind allegiance to authority, Google, Facebook, and bureaucrats who are not rigorous scientists, researchers, or doctors has been a huge problem over the past year. When no questions or critical thinking are allowed, then poor outcomes are more likely.

 

VOX now stealth editing their "debunking" of the lab origin of COVID.

 

Why is no one questioning the suspicious changes in the accounting of COVID cases by the CDC?

 

Yeah, the choice of language they used is more indicative of what is mockingly called sciencism. Instead of being careful with the available evidence and being open to possible alternative theories and accepting that not all facts might be known (or correct). What might also have been a factor is that last year, bringing up any discussion of whether of not it might have been a lab-escape could favour the reelection chances of former president Trump. Same with how Cuomo's covid policies where not looked at closely last year, but now Trump is gone he is no longer getting any significant protection.


Edited by Marconius, 25 May 2021 - 07:40 AM.

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#679 geo12the

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Posted 25 May 2021 - 06:38 PM

Websites and fact-checkers were likely wrong about the lab origin of COVID

 

From the beginning the way the narrative was painted by some "China virus!" "made in the lab!"  was intentionally inflammatory to rile up emotions and for political advantage.  And the other side had a knee-jerk response "not from the lab!!!" that was not based in reality. Both were misguided.

 

From the beginning of the pandemic I recoiled from the "China virus" politicization by the right but also argued strongly against the "not from the lab!!!" side.

 

Here is my opinion, take it for what it's worth: 

 

The virus was not intentionally released. The virus was not genetically engineered. I've worked in research labs for more than 1/2 of my life on earth. Mishaps happen. Gloves may have tiny holes that you can't see but may let in nasty things. Many lab coats leave the area around the top buttons exposed. Drops of nasty stuff can splatter long distances when you are pipetting. Biosaftey hoods may have leaks that render them less than 100% safe. In any given lab, you may have individuals who are sloppy or cavalier about adherence to safety measures. The lab in Wuhan was working on Coronaviruses. Even with strong precautions and safety measures, mishaps can happen. The possibility that someone there was accidentally infected with a virus is real and cannot be waved away. We may never know the truth.


Edited by geo12the, 25 May 2021 - 06:40 PM.

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#680 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 25 May 2021 - 08:01 PM

I mostly agree with what you're saying. I also do not believe that the virus was intentionally released. And I don't believe it was engineered as some sort of bio-weapon (a virus with an overall survival rate of 99.1% is a remarkably bad bio-weapon).  But, I think it's somewhat likely that it was an altered virus they were studying that got loose.  
 
Here's my reasoning. It's pretty much accepted that the virus did not originate in the Wuhan wet market. Even the Chinese health authorities say this now.

If it were a naturally occurring virus that researchers at the Wuhan Institute of Virology had collected somewhere, clearly they would know where they had got it from. China right now would like nothing more than to show proof of a naturally occurring source for covid-19.  Now presumably if the virus had been collected by WIV, it would not necessarily have been collected local to Wuhan.  All that would remain for the Chinese government would be to concoct some plausible story of how it got from where it was collected to somewhere close to Wuhan that did not involved a WIV researcher bringing it there. I'm confident they could accomplish this and even if some people still questioned the story of how it got to Wuhan, it would be worth it to them to dispel the idea that it had been created in a Wuhan lab.  So I don't believe it came from a natural source, not because of any technical reasons but because of how I think the Chinese government would logically behave.
 
There had been some criticism of WIV doing what some considered to be dangerous gain of function work at an underrated BSL-2 lab. The other day in front of the Senate, Fauci took issue with calling Wuhan's work "gain of function", but this appears to be some technical nit picking on Fauci's part.  We know that Shi Zhengli at the Wuhan Institute was involved in manipulating bat corona viruses and specifically adding novel spike proteins. How do we know this? Because she's listed on a published paper doing exactly this.
 
So, where are we at? Nobody believes it came from the Wuhan wet market any more. If it was a naturally occurring virus that had been collected and then got loose from WIV, the Chinese (in my opinion) would likely parade the natural source around for all to see along with some plausible story of how it got to the vicinity of Wuhan. And we know that "batwoman" Shi Zhengli at WIV had been involved in published research on manipulating spike proteins on bat corona viruses and the WIV was only a BSL-2 lab which had a history of researchers getting infected by viruses they were working on.  Even Tony Fauci is now saying that he's 'not convinced' Covid-19 developed naturally.

 

We're at the point where if you look at the totality of the evidence I think it's more likely than not that the Chinese were sloppy and let a virus they had been manipulating escape from their Wuhan lab. But, more likely than not isn't a standard that would stand up in a criminal court in this country.  I have no idea what it would take to prove this beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

It's a shame that prior to the election this issue was so politicized that the possibility that it might have escaped from WIV was essentially taken off the table. It's only been in the last month or so that it's being grudgingly admitted that it escaping from a Wuhan lab is a real possibility, and that's on no new scientific evidence that I can find.


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#681 pamojja

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Posted 25 May 2021 - 08:05 PM

Sky News AU broadcast a fascinating piece on the Viral Origins:


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#682 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 25 May 2021 - 09:02 PM

You know, the really sobering thought is that if it did originate in the Wuhan lab, there's a researcher out there that made some careless mistake (these things almost always come back to a careless mistake) and became patient 0 of covid-19. He or she likely survived their encounter (the mast majority of people do). If so, they have to live with the fact that they are responsible for 3.5 million deaths and rising.

 

That would be a hell of a thing to have on your conscience.

 

 


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#683 Mind

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Posted 27 May 2021 - 10:43 AM

The CDC needs serious reform or a criminal investigation. I am glad more doctors, media, and researchers are calling out the sometimes bizzare and unscientific actions of the CDC over the past year or so.

 

https://news.yahoo.c...-155429401.html


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#684 Mind

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Posted 27 May 2021 - 11:15 AM

Seriously, there needs to be an investigation of the CDC.

 

https://www.nakedcap...ing-author.html


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#685 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 27 May 2021 - 09:38 PM

Here's another sobering thought:

 

As recently as a couple of months ago, discussing the idea that covid-19 escaped from the lab in Wuhan could get you kicked off of YouTube, Facebook, and Twitter.

 

And now suddenly all the respectable people are talking about it.

 

It seems as a culture we no longer value open discourse and freedom of expression.

 

 


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#686 Hip

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Posted 28 May 2021 - 03:26 AM

Here's another sobering thought:

 

As recently as a couple of months ago, discussing the idea that covid-19 escaped from the lab in Wuhan could get you kicked off of YouTube, Facebook, and Twitter.

 

And now suddenly all the respectable people are talking about it.

 

It seems as a culture we no longer value open discourse and freedom of expression.

 

Governments have placed considerable pressure on social media platforms such as YouTube, Facebook and Twitter to weed out and remove fake news, misinformation and conspiracy theories. 

 

So you have to expect social media to ban or suppress speculative theories with little or no supporting evidence, such as the theory that SARS-CoV-2 was accidentally released from the Wuhan lab (which there is still no evidence for).

 

Every now and then you might get a conspiracy theory which turns out to be true, but that's something you will have to live with, if you want to suppress the 99% of conspiracy theories which are bullshit. That's just the way it is.

 

No different to how the world of science works. In science, the leading theories often take precedence, and new ideas tend to be suppressed (eg, scientists may find it hard to get funding of new ideas which contradict the leading theories). That's why it has been said that science advances one funeral at a time.

 

If you know a better approach to dealing with misinformation on social media, please contact your government, and offer them your idea.

 

 

Note that governments are not restricting your freedom of expression, as you will always find hidden corners of the internet where you can post and discuss any idea. The government policing of social media just stops bullshit ideas being broadcast to the masses by viral spread. The viral spread dynamic (retweets, etc) is what makes social media a dangerous spreader of misinformation. 


Edited by Hip, 28 May 2021 - 03:27 AM.

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#687 Hip

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Posted 28 May 2021 - 03:37 AM

You know, the really sobering thought is that if it did originate in the Wuhan lab, there's a researcher out there that made some careless mistake (these things almost always come back to a careless mistake) and became patient 0 of covid-19. He or she likely survived their encounter (the mast majority of people do). If so, they have to live with the fact that they are responsible for 3.5 million deaths and rising.

 

That would be a hell of a thing to have on your conscience.

 

If there were a lab escape, the responsibly probably would not just be down to one person. Some articles have suggested the coronavirus research at Wuhan may have been conducted at biosafety level 2 (which basically just means you are required to wear gloves and a lab coat). International regulations stipulate that level 2 is sufficient when working with animal viruses. 

 

However, if you are working with animal viruses, but conducting experiments to see if that virus might be able to infect humans, then biosafety level 4 (where everyone must wear space suits) would be more appropriate. So the blame here might be the lax safety regulations, rather than individual mistakes.


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#688 Mind

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Posted 28 May 2021 - 09:50 AM

Governments have placed considerable pressure on social media platforms such as YouTube, Facebook and Twitter to weed out and remove fake news, misinformation and conspiracy theories. 

 

So you have to expect social media to ban or suppress speculative theories with little or no supporting evidence, such as the theory that SARS-CoV-2 was accidentally released from the Wuhan lab (which there is still no evidence for).

 

Every now and then you might get a conspiracy theory which turns out to be true, but that's something you will have to live with, if you want to suppress the 99% of conspiracy theories which are bullshit. That's just the way it is.

 

No different to how the world of science works. In science, the leading theories often take precedence, and new ideas tend to be suppressed (eg, scientists may find it hard to get funding of new ideas which contradict the leading theories). That's why it has been said that science advances one funeral at a time.

 

If you know a better approach to dealing with misinformation on social media, please contact your government, and offer them your idea.

 

 

Note that governments are not restricting your freedom of expression, as you will always find hidden corners of the internet where you can post and discuss any idea. The government policing of social media just stops bullshit ideas being broadcast to the masses by viral spread. The viral spread dynamic (retweets, etc) is what makes social media a dangerous spreader of misinformation. 

 

It is way worse than just blocking legitimate investigation into the origins of this virus. National media outlets in the U.S., major social media, etc. are blocking legitimate data and questions about the usefulness of masks and lockdown policies and data on vaccination programs. People who have suffered from vaccination or know people who died after COVID vaccination are being instantly blocked on most major platforms.

 

Tens of thousands of doctors and researchers have been blocked from speaking on National media outlets and social media. Some have been, harassed, threatened, and even fired for raising questions about various pandemic policies or pointing out the effectiveness of out-patient treatments. Many of the researchers and doctors were previously very respected, extensively published, leaders in their fields.

 

They have been mostly replaced by nebulous talking-head "health professionals" who staff government bureaucracies.

 

This is a dangerous development.


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#689 Hip

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Posted 28 May 2021 - 01:27 PM

It is way worse than just blocking legitimate investigation into the origins of this virus. National media outlets in the U.S., major social media, etc. are blocking legitimate data and questions about the usefulness of masks and lockdown policies and data on vaccination programs. [/url].

 

Nothing new here. Even in the days before the general public got onto the Internet, newspapers, radio and TV broadcasters would not publish material from any old Tom, Dick or Harry.
 
If you are a quack doctor or bogus researcher, journalists and editors are going to suss you out. A good journalist and newspaper editor are not going to broadcast your dubious material. They will not let you spout your nonsense across the nation. 
 
Freedom of expression means you can legally voice your opinion without being persecuted by the government. Freedom of expression however does not mean you have an automatic right to have your opinion broadcast across the nation by major broadcasters. If in the view of these broadcasters you are talking shite, then they will not give you any air time.
 
Sometimes broadcasters get it wrong, and give air time to a bogus researcher (the quack British antivaxer Dr Andrew Wakefield is an example of this: his bogus research was published in all the UK newspapers). And sometimes broadcasters or newspapers may fail to give air time to someone who's opinion is valid and important. It's the job of a good journalist to try to figure out what it legitimate, and what is bullshit. That's not an easy job.
 

 

 

People who have suffered from vaccination or know people who died after COVID vaccination are being instantly blocked on most major platforms.

 

This is not happening in the UK or Europe. The media have been following the stories about blood clots caused by the AstraZeneca vaccine quite closely. 

 

Yesterday for example I read this story of a BBC reporter who died of a blood clot after the AstraZeneca vaccine. And this earlier story details 7 blood clot deaths after the AstraZeneca vaccine.

 

These stories however should be blocked on social media, because social media is not a rational discussion platform, but a place where hysterical fear and viral retweeting occurs. The masses can easily be whipped up into a frenzied state of hysterical fear by unverified hearsay. So such hearsay needs to be filtered.

 
 
 

Tens of thousands of doctors and researchers have been blocked from speaking on National media outlets and social media. Some have been, harassed, threatened, and even fired for raising questions about various pandemic policies or pointing out the effectiveness of out-patient treatments. Many of the researchers and doctors were previously very respected, extensively published, leaders in their fields.
 
They have been mostly replaced by nebulous talking-head "health professionals" who staff government bureaucracies.
 
This is a dangerous development.

 
In the US, quality journalism is suffering, because of the increasing political polarization of broadcast media and newspapers. This is happening in the UK too, but not to quite the same extent. 
 
Broadcasters are currently less concerned with truth, and more concerned with their side winning. That's a bad state of affairs, and something desperately needs to be done about it.
 
A friend of mine told me that in the US, because of a change of law implemented by Reagan, TV news channels were legally allowed to become politically partisan, whereas previously there had been a law requiring TV broadcasters remain politically neutral and unbiased. Perhaps you know about this change in law, and can give me more details. I don't know much about it.
 
But I do know that once you let broadcasters become politically biased, truth will be the first casually.
 
 
 
By the way, in the medical intelligence hierarchy, doctors are at the lowest rung. So just because a doctor says something, don't think what they say is automatically legitimate and true. The highest rung is being a professor of medicine. If a professor tells you something, then it has more weight. 
 
But if you take two professors of medicine, they may actually have different views in controversial and uncharted areas of medicine. So even a professor's views cannot always be regarded as unquestionably true, especially in unproven areas of science.
 
 
In any case, science is not conducted and disseminated via the media. Science is conducted and disseminated via scientific journals, scientific conferences, and day to day banter between scientists in their laboratories. 
 
So what the media says does not greatly affect science, although it does greatly affect the general public.


Edited by Hip, 28 May 2021 - 01:45 PM.

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#690 geo12the

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Posted 28 May 2021 - 01:56 PM

It is way worse than just blocking legitimate investigation into the origins of this virus. 

 

The previous president was really good at starting political food fights but didn't have the wherewithal to actually figure out what is going on. The new president has actually ordered a new investigation to try and figure out the truth.

 

https://www.bbc.com/...anada-57260009 

 

Instead of just screaming "China virus!" every five seconds the previous president could have done the same. 

 

 

 People who have suffered from vaccination or know people who died after COVID vaccination are being instantly blocked on most major platforms.

 

Tens of thousands of doctors and researchers have been blocked from speaking on National media outlets and social media. Some have been, harassed, threatened, and even fired for raising questions about various pandemic policies or pointing out the effectiveness of out-patient treatments. Many of the researchers and doctors were previously very respected, extensively published, leaders in their fields.

 

They have been mostly replaced by nebulous talking-head "health professionals" who staff government bureaucracies.

 

This is a dangerous development.

.

 

You are crying wolf. More than 150 million people in the US have been vaccinated. If there were major side effects they would have emerged by this point. And when you have 150 million folks, guess what? Some will die or get sick of other causes. But nothing has emerged above the noise level. Almost everyone I know has been vaccinated. The vaccine has essentially stopped the virus, and that's a wonderful development.  Can't you acknowledge that things are actually looking up? Or does that not jive with your political and conspiratorial views?  

 

 

 


Edited by geo12the, 28 May 2021 - 01:58 PM.

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