980 replies to this topic

[Mind]

Communist China is one of the few places in the world still clinging to the "zero COVID" strategy and residents do not like it - of course.

 

Communist Chinese government using robot dogs with loud speakers to enforce the Shanghai lockdown...nothing (dystopian) to see here.

 

Communist Chinese government using drones to tell frustrated residents without food to "control your soul's desire for freedom".

 

Communist Chinese government's COVID reaction in Shanghai has been chaotic.

 

Complain about the COVID restrictions in communist China at your own peril. The government is tightening its control of the Internet.

 

If people around the world did not protest the loss of their human rights, we would all still be prostrate to the government COVID restrictions to this day, exactly like in China, being quarantined in camps, being separated from our children/families, living on food handouts from the government, being tested every day.

 

If people want to wear a mask, fine. If people want to take the injection, fine. For the people who would rather not, fine.

 

The best way forward is to actually cure the disease. Use therapeutics. Most of all, prosecute those who continue to create deadly pathogens in biolabs around the world.

[Florin]

If wearing respirators during pandemics doesn't become second nature for most people and once the pandemics-created-in-a-garage start, Chinese-style lockdowns will become inevitable.

 

A more speculative way to avoid pandemics is to make physical isolation appealing by automating everything and mainstreaming VR.

 

The problem with therapeutics is that they usually take too long to develop and distribute. Maybe this can be solved by the developing a universal, impossible-to-counteract, antiviral, but it's unclear if this is possible.

[Daniel Cooper]

If wearing respirators during pandemics doesn't become second nature for most people and once the pandemics-created-in-a-garage start, Chinese-style lockdowns will become inevitable.

 

A more speculative way to avoid pandemics is to make physical isolation appealing by automating everything and mainstreaming VR.

 

The problem with therapeutics is that they usually take too long to develop and distribute. Maybe this can be solved by the developing a universal, impossible-to-counteract, antiviral, but it's unclear if this is possible.

 

 

What you describe sounds like some sort of dystopian hellscape. Respirators at the ready? Widespread (presumably enforced) physical isolation? Everyone living in VR?

 

God lord, if that's what the future looks like then the next pandemic can just finish me off. There actually are things worse than death. I have no desire whatsoever to spend my life in Zuckerberg's Metaverse.

 

What a curious reaction to a pandemic which is not at all unique compared to pandemics that humanity has experienced and survived countless times in the past. In fact the prior one is just barely on the edge of living human memory. Strangely the people that went through those pandemics basically picked themselves up and carried on with life. They did not generally live in the sort of fear that would cause someone to want to lock themselves away from the rest of humanity. That's probably because they lived in a time where death was accepted as a normal and natural part of life that would under no circumstances be avoided.  

[Florin]

What you describe sounds like some sort of dystopian hellscape. Respirators at the ready? Widespread (presumably enforced) physical isolation? Everyone living in VR?

 

God lord, if that's what the future looks like then the next pandemic can just finish me off. There actually are things worse than death. I have no desire whatsoever to spend my life in Zuckerberg's Metaverse.

 

What a curious reaction to a pandemic which is not at all unique compared to pandemics that humanity has experienced and survived countless times in the past. In fact the prior one is just barely on the edge of living human memory. Strangely the people that went through those pandemics basically picked themselves up and carried on with life. They did not generally live in the sort of fear that would cause someone to want to lock themselves away from the rest of humanity. That's probably because they lived in a time where death was accepted as a normal and natural part of life that would under no circumstances be avoided.  

 

What amount of temporary pain would you be willing to put up with to have a decent chance of living forever? Would you really rather die than temporarily wear a respirator or physically isolate?

 

People around here claim to want to live forever, but some seem unwilling to do even the minimum amount of work (except popping pills perhaps) needed to achieve that goal. Yeah, it would be nice to have immorality offered on a silver platter, but that probably won't happen, at least any time soon.

[Daniel Cooper]

What amount of temporary pain would you be willing to put up with to have a decent chance of living forever? Would you really rather die than temporarily wear a respirator or physically isolate?

 

People around here claim to want to live forever, but some seem unwilling to do even the minimum amount of work (except popping pills perhaps) needed to achieve that goal. Yeah, it would be nice to have immorality offered on a silver platter, but that probably won't happen, at least any time soon.

 

I'd say my chances of living forever are pretty low at the moment.

 

Given that, I'll take quality over quantity any day.

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 11 April 2022 - 02:13 PM.

[Florin]

I'd say my chances of living forever are pretty low at the moment.

 

Given that, I'll take quality over quantity any day.

 

I'm sorry to hear that, and of course, I'd also agree.

[Mind]

Even I have to put a warning on this video. It is graphic. You cannot unsee pets being tortured and killed in Shanghai - all for "Zero Covid". All because of "the science".  (that pets are spreading COVID?)

 

https://www.reddit.c...duly_execution/

 

These Chinese crackdown in Shanghai is so extreme and unhinged that many people wonder if there is a different goal. Torture dissidents? Starve/kill the weak?

 

This would absolutely be happening in the U.S. if people did not push back. There are many politicians in the U.S. who have declared public adoration for China's authoritarianism. I am sure they are salivating at the prospect of instituting a dystopian nightmare in the rest of the world. When "health" authorities kept pushing for public policies that were doing nothing to stop the pandemic hardly anywhere, you know they really did not have "health" as their top priority. I still see people wearing masks outdoors where no one is within 100 feet of them, because public "health" authorities told them to do so.

 

What else can the public be convinced to do out of fear? Forever isolate from their family and friends, wear a gas mask, and try to fill their life with VR entertainment?

 

An NBER research paper looked at the states with best vs. worst COVID outcomes - considering many measures of health, well-being, disruptions, etc... Not only are California and New York near the bottom of the heap in deaths per million, they are at the rock bottom of the overall measures as well. No wonder so many people are fleeing New York and California. They are fleeing "the science" (that failed).

Edited by Mind, 12 April 2022 - 09:40 PM.

[Mind]

Some people in Shanghai are committing suicide.

 

Some are dying from medical neglect in Shanghai

 

Many in Shanghai are starving for days

 

Pets are being tortured and killed in Shanghai.

 

So great that no one died of COVID!! (if you believe the communist Chinese government).

 

Thanks to all of the common people who stood up to COVID tyranny, otherwise this type of dystopia would be happening around the world.

[Hip]

Even I have to put a warning on this video. It is graphic. You cannot unsee pets being tortured and killed in Shanghai - all for "Zero Covid". All because of "the science".  (that pets are spreading COVID?)

 

https://www.reddit.c...duly_execution/

 

 

Those poor pets, their minor role in spreading COVID does not justify them being bagged up like that.

 

On the other hand, those net bags would be great for dealing with antivaxers and antimaskers!

 

I am being humorous, of course.

Edited by Hip, 16 April 2022 - 07:31 PM.

[Mind]

At least one bioethicist is speaking up about what looks like a "biomedical security state" being implemented around the world due to COVID. I suspect more bioethicists did not speak up over the last couple of years because of the blind rage and violent threats against anyone who offered differing opinions about the pandemic response.

[Mind]

The Communist Party lockdown of Shanghai is starting to relent, a lot of people died, but not many of COVID. Now they have been getting meager rotten food rations at times.

 

Billions of dollars were sent to Universities for pandemic relief - some suspect this influenced decisions to mandate the COVID injections at most Universities in the U.S. The "science" should have been the deciding determinant of mandates, and young people have very little chance of becoming seriously ill from COVID.

 

Dr. Fauci says health authorities should essentially be dictators and above the law, more powerful than any branch of government or agency, be unrestrained in any policy they want to implement. A terrible idea.

Edited by Mind, 22 April 2022 - 06:38 PM.

[Mind]

The very poor and ineffective policy response to the COVID pandemic is leading to less respect and faith in "public health" institutions. I think if they had been more flexible and not gone scorched-earth and tried to utterly destroy anyone who offered help or different ideas, their public perception would not be so low.

[joesixpack]

Here is a scientific paper Indicating the pandemic is not over, and calling for governments in highly vaccinated countries to take immediate action. I don't understand all of what he is talking about, but I get the basic message.

 

Geert Vanden Bossche Predictions on evolution Covid 19 pandemic

 

Excerpt (fair use less than 50%) from page 44. Link to the full paper can be found at the link below, which also has complete information about the author.

 

Unless a large-scale antiviral program is immediately implemented in highly vaccinated countries, the increasing immune pressure exerted on Omicron’s pathogenicity will drive natural selection and propagation of new SC-2 variants (Newcos) that – in comparison to Omicron - will gain a tremendous competitive advantage on different fronts (full resistance to the vaccines resulting in enhanced infectiousness, transmissibility and virulence) and in all segments of the population that find their innate immune effector capacity suppressed, especially as a result of vaccination. C-19 vaccination not only suppresses the functionality of innate polyreactive Ab responses, which besides their protection from CoV also protect from other enveloped glycosylated viruses, but now also promotes viral infectiousness

25
since the potentially neutralizing vaccinal Abs have become subject to viral resistance . Since enhancing

vaccinal Abs are now causing strong immune pressure on viral virulence in highly vaccinated populations, enhanced infectiousness (ADEI) is paving the way for new escape mutants that will promote ADED. Vaccination against Omicron will parallel the effect of natural exposure to Omicron in that both will predominantly lead to a recall of enhancing anti-NTD Abs. Vaccinees who are at the highest risk of contracting severe disease are those who got vaccinated prior to natural exposure. Oncevaccinated, their innate immune cells may no longer be ‘trainable’ because of the prolonged suppressive effect of enhancing vaccinal Abs directed at the conserved antigenic site on S-NTD. These Abs will likely be boosted on regular occasions by the highly infectious circulating variant. But even additional booster injections with the current C-19 vaccines are only going to further raise the anti-NTD Ab titers and are, therefore, equally prone to promoting selection and expansion of ADED-enabling Newcos.

This sobering but truly scientific perspective is not even mentioning the many concerns raised in regard of the potential health consequences caused by long-lived suppression of immune recognition of self- like glycans that are expressed on host cells infected with other viruses (e.g., Influenza) or host cells that are pathologically altered by a non-infectious disease (e.g., cancer cells).

 

 

https://www.voicefor...n-c-19-pandemic

[Mind]

The Communist Chinese government treats their citizens like disposable worker drones. They are now locking people up in their neighborhoods with newly erected fencing. People are forced to sleep in factories and work for days on end. Once the COVID lockdown begins Chinese citizens lose all human rights.

 

Be thankful that many people in western nations resisted the COVID tyranny, otherwise we would all be in the same situation.

Edited by Mind, 30 April 2022 - 08:01 PM.

[Hip]

Be thankful that many people in western nations resisted the COVID tyranny, otherwise we would all be in the same situation.

 

Do you really think that Western individualism which has thousands of years of history was going to collapse because governments enforced masks and lockdowns! 

 

Do you have any historical presidents for your assertions, where individual freedoms were lost because of enforced rules under times of emergency? I know of no examples. Individualism is part of the DNA of the West. There is no risk we are going to lose it.

 

Even in times of crisis, individualism remained, or actually increased. Women for example enjoyed more freedom than they ever had during WW2. 

Edited by Hip, 30 April 2022 - 12:03 AM.

[joesixpack]

Well if you look around I am sure you can find a few examples.

 

https://www.bbc.com/...tralia-59486285

 

https://townhall.com...-camps-n2594763

 

https://stephenbalic...ntration-camps/

 

https://americanmili...ts-reports-say/

 

 

 

[Mind]

Do you really think that Western individualism which has thousands of years of history was going to collapse because governments enforced masks and lockdowns! 

 

 

Yes. 100%.

 

Even in my small out-of-the-way part of the world, the county administration tried to give an unelected unaccountable health bureaucrat the authority to lock anyone up in their house or shut down any business due to any public "health" threat (and issue $25,000 fines).

 

A small group of principled protesters were able to turn back this attempt at tyrannical control.

[Mind]

As highlighted earlier, lockdowns crushed the lives of millions of children around the world.

[Mind]

Like Iceland, Denmark is dropping its vaccination program because it did nothing to stop transmission of COVID.

 

None of the CDC or WHO recommended mitigation measures did anything to stop wave after wave after wave of COVID transmission. In the most-vaccinated countries, the worst outbreaks occurred after the vast majority of the populations were vaccinated.

[Mind]

One of the worst pandemic responses was for the media, government, and "health" bureaucracies to go scorched-earth and destroy any and all dissenting opinions or alternative treatments. Here is an example in Michigan. Phd Nurse who protested mask mandates at her child's school is facing severe punishment.

 

Rhode Island might go tyrannical on COVID injection mandates (closer to Communist Chinese totalitarianism every day).

[Hip]

One of the worst pandemic responses was for the media, government, and "health" bureaucracies to go scorched-earth and destroy any and all dissenting opinions or alternative treatments. Here is an example in Michigan. Phd Nurse who protested mask mandates at her child's school is facing severe punishment.

 

Rhode Island might go tyrannical on COVID injection mandates (closer to Communist Chinese totalitarianism every day).

 

How do you feel about the Ukraine banning males aged 18 to 60 from leaving the country, as it wants them to stay a fight the Russians.

 

Is that anathema to libertarian views, or in times of war, are such harsh rules acceptable? Would anyone actually fight if they were given the freedom to leave?

 

I ask this because the pandemic is a war against a viral enemy, and in times of war, harsh rules are implemented. 

[Mind]

Vitamin C helps the immune system.

 

 

If you are carrying a few extra kilos in weight, an extra apple or two per day might make a difference in boosting your immune system and helping ward off COVID-19 and winter illnesses.

New University of Otago, Christchurch research has identified, for the first time, exactly how much extra vitamin C humans need to ingest, relative to their body weight, to maximize their immune health.

 

Vitamin C. Beneficial. Who knew!? /sarc

 

Incredible that any person, doctor, nutritionist, nurse, or scientist who offered to help out during the pandemic by identifying things people could do to stay healthy or to treat COVID early, were marked for destruction in he public square. The ugly hatred spewed out toward these people who tried to help the situation was awful. I am unsure who it was in the "health" bureaucracies who thought this was a good policy during the pandemic. They should be fired. 

[Mind]

The Communist Chinese government continues to tell people that the destruction of their lives and humanity over COVID is good for them.

 

 

XI: "We must be firm in overcoming thoughts of indifference and self-righteous thinking, and underestimating the epidemic," a statement issued after the meeting said.

"We must keep a clear head and unwaveringly adhere to the general policy of dynamic zero-Covid. We must struggle against speech and acts that distort, question or reject our country’s anti-epidemic guidelines and policy."

 

Meanwhile, people are breaking out of the factories where they have been trapped and forced to work.

 

Many western leaders have effusively praised the communist government of China over the last couple of years, including Trudeau in Canada. If people in western countries did not push back against the COVID tyranny, we would all be in the same situation as the people in China.

Edited by Mind, 07 May 2022 - 11:15 AM.

[Mind]

The Communist Chinese government continues with its tyrannical, de-humanizing, and deadly extreme lockdown measures in Shanghai even as cases decline.

 

Many policy-setters think that the Communists continue with such extreme measures because they can never say "we were wrong", or "we have to change our COVID policy", for fear of losing respect of the population.

[Mind]

Top COVID policy advisor in the UK admits that negative consequences of lockdowns were "NEVER" considered. (now admits the negative consequences should have been considered....duh!)

 

This person should never be called upon to advise any government ever again. He should be fired. How can you craft a policy without taking a comprehensive look at the pros & cons?

 

The dictatorial and non-sensical COVID pandemic responses never made much sense. Now we know why. The people setting the policy are clueless.

[Hip]

Top COVID policy advisor in the UK admits that negative consequences of lockdowns were "NEVER" considered. (now admits the negative consequences should have been considered....duh!)

 

I love the way your are able to find the trashiest websites on the Internet. That's quite some skill, that not many people have!

 

Media Bias Fact Check rates your Summit News site as:

 

Politics: Extreme right

Degree of factual reporting: LOW

 

It describes Summit News as having "extreme bias, consistent promotion of propaganda/conspiracies, poor or no sourcing to credible information, a complete lack of transparency and/or is fake news."

[Mind]

I love the way your are able to find the trashiest websites on the Internet. That's quite some skill, that not many people have!

 

Media Bias Fact Check rates your Summit News site as:

 

Politics: Extreme right

Degree of factual reporting: LOW

 

It describes Summit News as having "extreme bias, consistent promotion of propaganda/conspiracies, poor or no sourcing to credible information, a complete lack of transparency and/or is fake news."

 

The news is true. The advisor said they never considered negative consequences of COVID lockdowns. It makes no matter which news outlet reported the quote. Attacking the messenger does not make it untrue.

 

Glad to see more people are speaking out about the harms of the nonsensical ineffective COVID pandemic response. The unending vicious attacks on people, professionals, researchers, and scientists who offered different modalities for combatting the pandemic was awful. Some health bureaucrats need to be fired.

[Hip]

The news is true. The advisor said they never considered negative consequences of COVID lockdowns. It makes no matter which news outlet reported the quote. Attacking the messenger does not make it untrue. 

 

The news is misleading. 

 

Saying that the lockdown architects should have considered the social consequences of lockdowns is silly. Nobody can easily quantify or predict social consequences, especially not a such short notice, under the emergency situation at the beginning of the pandemic. Maybe with some in-depth psychological studies, which would take years to conduct, you might stand some chance of predicting the social consequences. We don't even fully know the social consequences right now, if any, even in hindsight, since it has not been adequately studied. 

 

But if you are going to consider social consequences, where does it end? What about the social consequences of those grieving for lost loved ones who might have been killed bu COVID had the lockdowns not been implemented? 

 

We do know however that a lot of people seemed to like the work from home rules, as many do not want to go back to the office even now.

Edited by Hip, 21 May 2022 - 03:15 AM.

[Mind]

The news is misleading. 

 

Saying that the lockdown architects should have considered the social consequences of lockdowns is silly. Nobody can easily quantify or predict social consequences, especially not a such short notice, under the emergency situation at the beginning of the pandemic. Maybe with some in-depth psychological studies, which would take years to conduct, you might stand some chance of predicting the social consequences. We don't even fully know the social consequences right now, if any, even in hindsight, since it has not been adequately studied. 

 

But if you are going to consider social consequences, where does it end? What about the social consequences of those grieving for lost loved ones who might have been killed bu COVID had the lockdowns not been implemented? 

 

We do know however that a lot of people seemed to like the work from home rules, as many do not want to go back to the office even now.

 

All public health policies are a balancing act. Risk/benefit analysis should always be done. This was not done in the UK. People should be fired.

[Hip]

All public health policies are a balancing act. Risk/benefit analysis should always be done. This was not done in the UK. People should be fired.

 

Well next time you step out in the road, and notice a speeding car is rapidly approaching, don't just jump out of the way, take out your notepad and perform a risk/benefit analysis of jumping first!

 

Emergency situations require emergency actions. That's commonsense, but the pandemic has shown there is a lack of that among much of the human race. 

Edited by Hip, 21 May 2022 - 03:07 PM.