980 replies to this topic

[Mind]

Here is a good video with a brilliant economist (author of the "Princes of the Yen") which touches upon some aspects the media-created COVID panic, but it is mostly economic history surrounding central banks. It starts to get more interesting at the 20 to 25 minute time frame, but there is some good history/context earlier in the video.

 

One question asked of him is who or what was driving the COVID panic? He reminds everyone that power corrupts. There are people in this world who are addicted to power and will never be satisfied until they have absolute control over everything imaginable. Psychopaths routinely rise into positions of power because they are the most ruthless. They have zero empathy for anyone who gets killed or crushed in their pursuit of power. They think they are superior to everyone else, as if they are gods, because so many other people are "hamstrung" by feelings of love/empathy or because other people value integrity and the truth.

 

This is something societies have struggled with for millennia - preventing psychopaths from gaining control.

 

A dangerous trend that was exposed through the COVID panic was how easily people can be manipulated in today's media-saturated environment. We have always known about social conformity leading people astray and this was acutely demonstrated in the "Asch Conformity Experiments". It is an amazing video. Watch it if you haven't before. People will deny reality in order to conform to the group. Public "health" bureaucrats got nearly everything wrong about the COVID pandemic response. Really, almost everything. None of the pandemic policies stopped COVID from spreading into every country of the world in multiple waves. Yet hardly anyone is calling them out for their abject failure. Social conformity.

 

Worse yet is the widespread weaponization of the general public. This has happened before in human history - normal ethical people being turned against each other - but not on the same world-wide scale as we witnessed in the last 3 years. The Stanford Prison Experiment and the Milgram Experiment showed us how easy it is to turn a normal "nice" person into a brutal vicious oppressor. The results of these experiments should be taught in every school multiple times so that people can guard themselves from participating in brutality against their fellow human.

 

Sadly, during the media-created COVID panic, we witnessed this weaponization and brutal behavior once again. Neighbors were weaponized against neighbors. Family members against family members. The attacks were unrelenting and disgusting. This could get uglier in the future with the advancement of AI systems. It will be even more easy to manipulate people into adversarial groups - more easy to control what media people consume - more easy to shut down rational discussion and debate in favor of "attacking the opponent". Prepare for it.

[geo12the]

 

 

Sadly, during the media-created COVID panic, we witnessed this weaponization and brutal behavior once again. Neighbors were weaponized against neighbors. Family members against family members. The attacks were unrelenting and disgusting. This could get uglier in the future with the advancement of AI systems. It will be even more easy to manipulate people into adversarial groups - more easy to control what media people consume - more easy to shut down rational discussion and debate in favor of "attacking the opponent". Prepare for it.

 

I agree the world has become too polarized. And much of it is due to people unwilling to see the other side of the equation and only spout their own dogamtic and slanted views. But that never happens here LOL

[Daniel Cooper]

I agree the world has become too polarized. And much of it is due to people unwilling to see the other side of the equation and only spout their own dogamtic and slanted views. But that never happens here LOL

 

Longecity is just a mirror of society at large. So of course there's been political polarization here as well.

 

But the weird thing is, political polarization seems to be something that everyone thinks the other guy is guilty of.

[geo12the]

Longecity is just a mirror of society at large. So of course there's been political polarization here as well.

 

But the weird thing is, political polarization seems to be something that everyone thinks the other guy is guilty of.

 

You are equating extreme anti-vax positions with mainstream positions-people who are looking at the big picture at what is really going on. They are not equivalent. I know some people will not believe this, but I try to be not political and promote facts and truth. I dislike both major political parties (registered Independent) and argue with both Progressives and MAGA people. Both are mired in twisted visions of utopia that are toxic dystopian fantasies.That some people think I am political or politically polarized is a refection of their own politics.

 

Fact is I have stated here repeatedly that I don't believe policy responses to the pandemic were perfect, but that, in and of itself, is not a reason to flock to the Mercolas of the world. At this point COVID is pretty much over, but Bird Flu, which has a much higher lethality rate, is a threat on the horizon. It is spreading in different mammals and is highly lethal. It can jump from bird to human but has not yet evolved the ability to jump from human to human. If it does, we are in trouble. And if that happens I will be the first to roll up my sleeves for the vaccine. And I certainly will not be listening to the Mercolas of the world.  Will you?

[Advocatus Diaboli]

Here's some ammunition for you, geo12the.

 

Title--"Not Getting Vaccinated? It Is a Matter of Problem-Solving Abilities and Socio-Cognitive Polarization"

 

I only posted that link to show that I, for one, am not a "cherry picker". Just your typical slack-jawed, drooling, slubberdegullion--who thinks "cycle, cycle, cycle" might also be decoded as a palilogy, shouted in encouragement to a Tour de France racer, for example. Which means, I guess, that the researchers may not have been alert to answers which reflected lateral thinking when doing some of their scoring. But, they may have confined themselves to an orthodoxy of their own confirmation bias. To "get" what I'm alluding to, one must read the link.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Advocatus Diaboli, 27 February 2023 - 04:32 AM.

[joesixpack]

Here's some ammunition for you, geo12the.

 

Title--"Not Getting Vaccinated? It Is a Matter of Problem-Solving Abilities and Socio-Cognitive Polarization"

 

I only posted that link to show that I, for one, am not a "cherry picker". Just your typical slack-jawed, drooling, slubberdegullion--who thinks "cycle, cycle, cycle" might also be decoded as a palilogy, shouted in encouragement to a Tour de France racer, for example. Which means, I guess, that the researchers may not have been alert to answers which reflected lateral thinking when doing some of their scoring. But, they may have confined themselves to an orthodoxy of their own confirmation bias. To "get" what I'm alluding to, one must read the link.

 

Here is a decision tree.

 

The vaccination:

 

1. Does not prevent infection.

 

2. Does not prevent spread.

 

3. Infection has less than an extremely low death risk.

 

4. The vaccination sometimes kills, and/or causes severe debilitating side effects, that can be permanent.

 

5. Those that mandated this vaccine should be prosecuted.

 

There is no upside to take a vaccination of such quality, that has such a low downside risk for not taking it.

 

And if the risks were disclosed to all that took it, no-one would have taken it.

 

This was an experiment on a population that was not informed of the risks, and the perpetrators should be prosecuted.

[Advocatus Diaboli]

Re: post #426

 

I'm inclined to label your offering as being more closely akin to a sorites, aka polysylllogism, than to a decision tree. But, that's just me being captious. In any case, you're spot on!

Edited by Advocatus Diaboli, 27 February 2023 - 01:15 PM.

[Mind]

It is stunning to analyze all the proven failures of the COVID pandemic response. Even more stunning is that responsible doctors, researchers, public health advocates, epidemiologists who offered better ideas, were censored, threatened, and fired (and this is still happening).

 

We can add the "ventilator hysteria" to the list of failures. Instead of being given standard pneumonia care, patients (mostly frail elderly) were put on ventilators and killed. Now all of that equipment that was not needed is being sold for pennies on the dollar.

 

Most stunning of all, no one is being fired for the total and utter failure of the public "health" response of the last 3 years. In fact, U.S. media is still trying their best to prop of the failed policies from the incompetent bureaucrats.

[Mind]

Some might recall how pets were slaughtered in Shanghai due to hysteria over COVID - prior to the CCP in China dropping all COVID pandemic policies in a split second a couple months later.

 

There was even "an idea" of killing all cats in Britain. Yikes.

 

Spreading irrational fear about COVID was not only a policy in the US, it was also done in the UK.

 

They even used teams of people to harass, dox, and threaten doctors and researchers that offered better alternatives for the pandemic response.

 

Instead of being rational, instead of being a steady calming presence, instead of following actual peer-reviewed science, the public "health" bureaucrats in the US and UK led the world into a panic and pushed pandemic policies that were an utter total failure. It was a disaster and it is embarrassing.

 

It is also dangerous because no one has been removed from office or criminally prosecuted for this failure. The same incompetent bureaucrats are standing by everything they did and ready to push these failed policies the minute another disease crops ups. 

[zorba990]

Some might recall how pets were slaughtered in Shanghai due to hysteria over COVID - prior to the CCP in China dropping all COVID pandemic policies in a split second a couple months later.

There was even "an idea" of killing all cats in Britain. Yikes.

Spreading irrational fear about COVID was not only a policy in the US, it was also done in the UK.

They even used teams of people to harass, dox, and threaten doctors and researchers that offered better alternatives for the pandemic response.

Instead of being rational, instead of being a steady calming presence, instead of following actual peer-reviewed science, the public "health" bureaucrats in the US and UK led the world into a panic and pushed pandemic policies that were an utter total failure. It was a disaster and it is embarrassing.

It is also dangerous because no one has been removed from office or criminally prosecuted for this failure. The same incompetent bureaucrats are standing by everything they did and ready to push these failed policies the minute another disease crops ups.

Interestingly, I never saw mRNA injecting of cats or dogs suggested in the US - though there were some reports of zoo animals being injected.
And, of course, no one was making their pet that I saw.

[Mind]

A lot of people in the US think that "quarantine camps" would never be implemented in the US. Don't be so sure. In the State New York, the governor is still fighting tooth-and-nail in court to retain the ability to send people to quarantine camps.

 

The policy of censoring all debate about the COVID policies and harassing/threatening those who did, was a terrible pandemic response (mainly led by the US/UK governments). Even Stanford got in on the act, censoring TRUE information about the COVID injection safety and true reports about patients with side effects. Sadly, I still notice a lot of people falling for the US government-sponsored propaganda surrounding COVID.

[albedo]

A peer reviewed and published opinion which, despite its focus on Australia and NPI (*), is worth to read as possibly applicable elsewhere and in other areas of intervention:

 

"Considering many of responses to the Covid19 pandemic in light of the principles
of public health ethics leads to some sobering conclusions. During the pandemic,
the moral value of health often became narrowly aligned with the avoidance of
one particular virus while mental health and other harms increased, socioeconomic
inequalities were exacerbated, and civil liberties were subject to sometimes draconian
limitations. The interests of children were in multiple ways sacrificed, often
with no strong justification, in the name of reducing harm from a virus that poses
extremely low risks to healthy children. Inequality skyrocketed; the benefits of public
health interventions and their economic effects overwhelmingly accumulated to the
rich while the poor benefited little, were often harmed, and were sometimes placed at
higher risk of infection. There was a lack of evidence that the benefits of many NPIs
outweighed their harms, and a widespread failure to collect such evidence in an unbiased
way. Transparency and legal checks on power were often limited.
Policing was excessive. Rather than the “least restrictive alternative” populations
experienced extreme levels of coercive control during lockdowns. Taken together,
these failures risk undermining trust in public health and science, and the unchecked
use of public health power (or prolonged states of emergency) risks undermining
democracy itself.
Policies instituted during the covid19 pandemic provide many important case
studies for ethical analysis. This Special Issue includes extended analyses of policies
including lockdowns, school closures, border closures, and the use of fear in public
health. It is hoped that better understanding of what went wrong, ethically speaking,

during the last few years, might help to inform more balanced and proportionate
responses to future pandemics."

 

(*) "... with a particular focus on Australia. It also provides background
for the papers in this special issue which include further ethical, philosophical, and
economic analyses of pandemic public health policies. While the predominant focus
of this issue is on non-pharmaceutical interventions (NPIs) policy regarding pharmaceutical
interventions such as vaccines also raises a range of ethical issues that have
received significant attention elsewhere (Gur-Arie, Jamrozik et al. 2021, Bardosh, de
Figueiredo et al. 2022, Giubilini, Savulescu et al. 2022, Kraaijeveld, Gur-Arie et al.
2022)..."

 

Jamrozik E. Public health ethics: critiques of the "new normal". Monash Bioeth Rev. 2022 Jun;40(1):1-16. doi: 10.1007/s40592-022-00163-7. Epub 2022 Sep 27. PMID: 36167921; PMCID: PMC9514707.

https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/36167921/

 

[Mind]

A peer reviewed and published opinion which, despite its focus on Australia and NPI (*), is worth to read as possibly applicable elsewhere and in other areas of intervention:

 

"Considering many of responses to the Covid19 pandemic in light of the principles
of public health ethics leads to some sobering conclusions. During the pandemic,
the moral value of health often became narrowly aligned with the avoidance of
one particular virus while mental health and other harms increased, socioeconomic
inequalities were exacerbated, and civil liberties were subject to sometimes draconian
limitations. The interests of children were in multiple ways sacrificed, often
with no strong justification, in the name of reducing harm from a virus that poses
extremely low risks to healthy children. Inequality skyrocketed; the benefits of public
health interventions and their economic effects overwhelmingly accumulated to the
rich while the poor benefited little, were often harmed, and were sometimes placed at
higher risk of infection. There was a lack of evidence that the benefits of many NPIs
outweighed their harms, and a widespread failure to collect such evidence in an unbiased
way. Transparency and legal checks on power were often limited.
Policing was excessive. Rather than the “least restrictive alternative” populations
experienced extreme levels of coercive control during lockdowns. Taken together,
these failures risk undermining trust in public health and science, and the unchecked
use of public health power (or prolonged states of emergency) risks undermining
democracy itself.
Policies instituted during the covid19 pandemic provide many important case
studies for ethical analysis. This Special Issue includes extended analyses of policies
including lockdowns, school closures, border closures, and the use of fear in public
health. It is hoped that better understanding of what went wrong, ethically speaking,

during the last few years, might help to inform more balanced and proportionate
responses to future pandemics."

 

(*) "... with a particular focus on Australia. It also provides background
for the papers in this special issue which include further ethical, philosophical, and
economic analyses of pandemic public health policies. While the predominant focus
of this issue is on non-pharmaceutical interventions (NPIs) policy regarding pharmaceutical
interventions such as vaccines also raises a range of ethical issues that have
received significant attention elsewhere (Gur-Arie, Jamrozik et al. 2021, Bardosh, de
Figueiredo et al. 2022, Giubilini, Savulescu et al. 2022, Kraaijeveld, Gur-Arie et al.
2022)..."

 

Jamrozik E. Public health ethics: critiques of the "new normal". Monash Bioeth Rev. 2022 Jun;40(1):1-16. doi: 10.1007/s40592-022-00163-7. Epub 2022 Sep 27. PMID: 36167921; PMCID: PMC9514707.

https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/36167921/

 

Very informative. Looking back is good, however bioethicists we no where to be found in 2020. The harms from the COVID interventions were EASILY diagnosed by even the common man on the street in 2020. Bioethicists are paid good money and hold positions of stature in government and academia BECAUSE they are supposed to speak up BEFORE the harm is done. 

[Mind]

Mass testing was a near total failure as well as this article from Germany clearly implies. Researchers from the German government plainly state that testing in schools was just about worthless.

 

Dr Birx apparently told one state governor that the lockdowns were "a science experiment in real time". There was no scientific rationale for lockdowns, for masking, or for social distancing. It was all made up on the fly by incompetent public "health" leaders in the US/UK.

 

The one country in Europe that did not follow the scientifically unsupported COVID policies is Sweden. They have the lowest excess death in Europe in the last 3 years. Here is a video clip to remind everyone the vast difference was between Sweden and the US. Recall the US media and health bureaucracies couldn't stop themselves from hyperventilating about how untold multitudes of people in Sweden were going to die - that the country would be decimated and never recover, It didn't happen. Just the opposite has happened. People are healthy. Sweden has the lowest excess mortality in Europe over the last 3 years, even though they had more COVID deaths than their close neighboring countries.

 

 

[albedo]

https://www-nytimes-...id-cdc.amp.html

 

Many things are starting to come out. I do not allow myself to comment about what happened in US but I am convinced many Western democracies had similar dis-functioning. It is probably where The People had more confidence (often today eroded ...), empowerment in, and right to look into Government actions, that there has been a more reasonable handling of the pandemics policies. What I cannot really stand is the brutal censoring and lack of real debate, within the scientific community, of/on controversial opinions. I cannot avoid to recollect a picture circulating in the social media witnessing the issue was emphasized early on by many ...

 

 the chain.jpg   115.48KB   1 downloads

[Mind]

https://www-nytimes-...id-cdc.amp.html

 

Many things are starting to come out. I do not allow myself to comment about what happened in US but I am convinced many Western democracies had similar dis-functioning. It is probably where The People had more confidence (often today eroded ...), empowerment in, and right to look into Government actions, that there has been a more reasonable handling of the pandemics policies. What I cannot really stand is the brutal censoring and lack of real debate, within the scientific community, of/on controversial opinions. I cannot avoid to recollect a picture circulating in the social media witnessing the issue was emphasized early on by many ...

 

the chain.jpg

 

Even here in the forum, world leading and respected scientists, doctors, researchers, virologists, and epidemiologists were suddenly called "fringe scientists". They were censored and attacked. They had to go to alternative platforms to get their ideas and research out. The US and UK governments and "health" leaders were particularly fond of censoring any alternative viewpoints.

 

These "fringe scientists" turned out to be right when they said the pandemic policies would not work to stop the spread of COVID. They deserve credit, not censorship.

 

__________________________________________

 

As mentioned previously, the US and UK governments and national media outlets spread irrational fear about COVID. The Telegraph in the UK published text messages from Matt Hancock in the UK talking about how he needed to "deploy the new variant" and "frighten the pants off people". 

 

In the UK, the government had clear evidence that the COVID risk for most of the population was minimal, yet they still hyped up the irrational fear. Some of these people need to be fired and/or arrested.

 

The UK even came up with a 25 point plan to weaponize information to make people fearful.

 

It worked. Some people still think COVID is super deadly. Some people still avoid public gatherings. Some people still wear masks all the time.

Edited by Mind, 25 March 2023 - 06:44 PM.

[Mind]

Nothing the government "health" bureaucrats did to stop the spread of COVID worked. It is nice to see more media outlets calling them out for it.

 

Even though the pandemic policies were a complete failure, some people think we should keep doing them. The media keeps going to Bill Gates for answers - someone who is a college drop-out and not a scientist or doctor. He thinks a world-wide medical tyranny is the only way to confront future pandemics - saying governments need to work even more closely together to spread fear about disease. Not surprisingly, the WHO (which Gates funds) says the same thing.

[Mind]

While you were being sold fear from the UK and US governments, the "health" leaders were out fishing, doing yoga, and relaxing in beautiful places. You were locked up, isolated, arrested, treated like cattle, and forced to mask. Not them.

[Mind]

Here is a good opinion article about how medicine (and Francis Collins) changed its tune when COVID hit. Previously, there was a big effort to treat everyone as individuals and recognize genomic differences to come up with patient-specific treatments. Once COVID hit, it was one size fits all. No dissent. No rational discourse.

[Mind]

Nothing the government "health" bureaucrats did to stop the spread of COVID worked. It is nice to see more media outlets calling them out for it.

 

Even though the pandemic policies were a complete failure, some people think we should keep doing them. The media keeps going to Bill Gates for answers - someone who is a college drop-out and not a scientist or doctor. He thinks a world-wide medical tyranny is the only way to confront future pandemics - saying governments need to work even more closely together to spread fear about disease. Not surprisingly, the WHO (which Gates funds) says the same thing.

 

 

Just a follow-up on this point, if you are wondering why a person who is not a scientist, not a doctor, not a medical researcher, and a college drop-out was consistently featured on TV during the COVID panic giving out all kinds of awful advice - follow the money - like always.

 

____________________________________

 

I had asked earlier if there were any thoughts about who created all of the fake doctor accounts on social media to spread COVID fear. Perhaps it was the UK government. Maybe it was part of the 25 point plan to weaponize information during the COVID panic. The SAGE group clearly wanted to sow irrational fear among Britons. They later apologized for this after the damage was done

[Vitalist]

All who still believe in the pandemic should read this brilliant article at off-guardian:

 

https://off-guardian...story-of-covid/

 

All of your questions are answered

[Dorian Grey]

All who still believe in the pandemic should read this brilliant article at off-guardian:

 

https://off-guardian...story-of-covid/

 

All of your questions are answered

 

Great one stop shopping source for everything you've always wanted to know about COVID.  

 

Thanks for the link!  

[Mind]

All who still believe in the pandemic should read this brilliant article at off-guardian:

 

https://off-guardian...story-of-covid/

 

All of your questions are answered

 

This is a well referenced article. It is amazing how many people still believe all of the COVID misinformation that was spread - primarily by the UK and US governments.

[Mind]

The fact that "leading" epidemiologists and health policy experts are still acting like the world is ending and engaging in extreme COVID NPI measures is disturbing (while the rest of the world is living normally, packing stadiums by the millions for sporting events among other things for over two years now). I don't think people realize that the COVID panic could have been primarily driven by public "health" bureaucrats who might be suffering from mental illness.

 

There is a persistent myth that tens of millions of people would have died if the whole world did not go into lockdown. Sweden didn't change much at all and they are doing great right now. Most of Africa did not engage in all the COVID hysteria promoted by the US/UK governments and most of the continent is doing fine as well. No viral massacre. Life goes on.

 

People in the US continue to leave cities like Seattle and New York, in part, because the leaders in these cities are clinging to the COVID panic and failed pandemic measures.

[Mind]

Years after most of the public have been living as if there is no "emergency", incompetent governments around the world are finally officially ending the "emergency". They didn't follow the science and now there is little discussion of why it was all a total failure to prevent COVID from spreading around the world.

 

....but not everyone is letting go of the failed policies. Some pockets of cultish holdouts remain in the US. I can't believe there are schools that are still masking and isolating children and not allowing them to talk to one another. It really resembles mental illness at this point.

 

A good review of all the deceit and non-sensical stuff that went on during the COVID panic.

[joesixpack]

It seems to be all about money and control.

[Mind]

US public "health" has devolved into a total clown show. The FDA chief now says the reason for increasing mortality recently in the US is "Misinformation".

 

It isn't the fact that the US is the most sedentary and obese society in the world.

It isn't the soaring drug use and suicide rates.

It isn't the oppressive, detrimental, and completely ineffective COVID policies.

 

No. It is misinformation.

 

Remember when those who flew into a total rage over forcing the COVID policies upon everyone? Remember when they called for people who didn't take to COVID injections to be put in camps? Remember them calling for mask realists to be arrested? Someone made a (fictional?) movie about it.

 

 

 

[Mind]

The public "health" response to the COVID situation was awful. One might wonder why the policies, including forced vaccination are being pursued so mightily by our incompetent governments. Per usual, follow the money.

 

When your government has entered into agreements to buy billions of dollars worth of COVID injections to be used over the course of a couple of years, they have an incentive to force them upon the population - even thought hardly anyone wants them.

 

When bureaucrats in Brussels are intimately involved in the business of big-pharma, you tend to get conflicts of interest, and the EU keeps buying doses of COVID injections that nobody wants.

 

One of the main reasons the COVID injections were being so heavily pushed in the US is that doctors and hospital systems were literally being paid for every dose they administered. The more injections, the richer they got.

 

The media played no small role in pushing profit-making pursuit of mass vaccination and were also paid handsomely for doing so. Good to see more ethical journalists now going back to review the awful role major media played in this episode.

[Mind]

A lot of people don't believe that some government bureaucrats might do "bad" things. You might forget the history of the atrocities committed by the US government - like MK-Ultra. The total failure of the COVID policies could be chalked up to incompetence, but ill-intent is not out of the question.

 

As an example of the lack of coherence in pandemic policies, the German government has now revised their COVID injection guidance for the 25th time.

 

More evidence has also arrived indicating a coordinated plan (mainly in the UK/US governments) to spread unrealistic fear about COVID. It worked, sadly.

 

Apparently in Scotland, the "health" authorities are more concerned about vaccine hesitancy than the negative side effects of the COVID injections. Your health matters not. The only concern is if you take the injections as required.

 

Not one of the COVID policies were founded in science (masking, isolation, sterilization, lockdowns, etc.) and more media outlets are starting to write about the total and utter failure. It is about time.

 

The thought that one could sterilize their environment, their body, the air they breathe, isolate and never encounter another microbe or germ is completely unrealistic. Here is a rather long opinion article about this subject. The science is clear that the more integrated you are in your environment, the healthier you will be.

[Mind]

Just like the FDA has back-tracked over their Ivermectin stance - saying "technically" we never called for banning, others are now saying "technically" I really didn't do that.

 

The tyrant of Canada, Justin Trudeau, is now saying "I didn't force anyone to take the COVID injections". Technically true, but the government of Canada did everything they could to make the lives of the unvaccinated a living hell. No travel. Fired from your job. Harassed and mocked by government-funded CBC.

 

The head of a large teachers union in the US is now saying she never supported school closures, which is a provable lie.

 

It is interesting to see so many so-called "leaders", now running away from all of the COVID policies they pushed as hard as they could for 2 to 3 years during the COVID panic. It is a clear indication of the total failure of these policies. If the policies worked, they would be saying "I told you so". Instead they are squirming and trying to wiggle their way out of the retribution that is coming.