980 replies to this topic

[Hip]

I touched on the HCQ / Zinc ionophore issue here: https://www.longecit...inc-ionophores/

From the paper: The above report does allude to HCQ possibly getting zinc into the cytoplasm through an alternate mechanism:

"Molecular simulations show hydroxychloroquine-triggered helix perturbation in zinc-finger protein without zinc chelation, a potential alternative non-ionophoric mechanism."

Joesixpack sent me a link on zinc ionophores on the page I linked to above. Apparently there are "channel ionophores" which take zinc directly into cytoplasm, and "carrier ionophores" which transport zinc through the cell wall, but may contain it within lysosomes. I recall Chris Masterjohn commenting on zinc being "carried" into the cell, but being trapped in the lysosomes where it wouldn't inhibit viral reproduction which occurs in cytoplasm.

We do know Chloroquine is a channel ionophore... Chloroquine is a zinc ionophore (PMID: 25271834)  & this got me thinking old school quinine which is organic form chloroquine might be a better COVID combo with zinc.  

I got some quinine (300mg/tab) from overseas pharmacy, and now take this with zinc if I ever get suspicious symptoms. This may be a superior ionophore, & the half life is much shorter than HCQ or old school chloroquine. If there is ever a surge of new & deadly variant, I'll be back on my HCQ though, as effectiveness has been fairly well documented when this is taken properly with the proper co-factor... ZINC!  

 

Very interesting!

I did not know about channel ionophores versus carrier ionophores, and that it may only be the former which delivers zinc into the cell in a way that facilitates zinc's antiviral effects.

 

Though I could not find anything on Google about carrier ionophores transporting zinc within lysosomes when I searched just now. I'd be interesting in finding a study on this.

But if this is true, it seems that chloroquine would be a safer bet as a reliable zinc ionophore.



A while back I came across this paper which quantifies the efficacy of various zinc ionophore supplements, comparing these to the standard zinc ionophores clioquinol and pyrithione. These were the findings:


Zinc Ionophore Potency

clioquinol                   57-fold
pyrithione                   54-fold

epigallocatechin-3-gallate   36-fold
quercetin                    18-fold
luteolin                     12-fold
tannic acid                  12-fold
gallic acid                   8-fold

rutin                         4-fold
dihydroquercetin (taxifolin)  4-fold
caffeic acid                  3-fold
catechin hydrate              2-fold
catechol                      2-fold
genistein                     2-fold

 

 

As you can see, EGCG has a potency approaching that of clioquinol. And clioquinol is much more potent than chloroquine, if you look at figure 4 of this paper. 

 

But of course these are in vitro potency figures, and pharmacokinetic factors such as bioavailability and blood plasma protein binding will affect the final in vivo potency.

 

Though I wonder if ECGC is a channel ionophore or carrier ionophore?

 

 

 

In vitro, resveratrol at a concentration of 10 μM has been shown to substantially increase intracellular zinc. 

 

And PBT2 is a safe-for-human-use zinc ionophore.

 

Lots of zinc ionophores listed here: https://en.wikipedia...wiki/Ionophore 

 

Edited by Hip, 30 July 2023 - 05:58 AM.

[Dorian Grey]

Thanks so much for your genuine interest in getting to the bottom of this Hip. This is very valuable to me.  

 

For all you do...  We Salute You!  

[Dorian Grey]

Dr Seheult of MedCram has a fantastic lecture on zinc & zinc ionophores here: 

 

 

Jump to 1:30 or 2:55 to bypass the intro.  Dr Zelenko actually said it was this video that inspired him to believe he might be able to help his patients at ground zero New York in early 2020.  

 

Interesting where he shows the slides of zinc penetrating the cells with chloroquine, they say the zinc was detected by "LysoTracker" technology; and the detected zinc does not appear to spread throughout the cytoplasm, but appears to be concentrated in lysosomes.  This is chloroquine, which is supposed to be a genuine zinc ionophore.  What's going on here?  

 

I hope we're interested enough to pursue this to a conclusion.  

[Dorian Grey]

Here's Chris Masterjohn's take on the zinc ionophore hypothesis: 

 

https://chrismasterj...roxychloroquine

 

Are Chloroquine and Hydroxychloroquine Zinc Ionophores?

 

This is an old paper (Spring 2020), but I've seen he has stuck with this theory on the relative benefit of zinc and CQ / HCQ

 

Although chloroquine has been shown to act as a zinc ionophore, I doubt this contributes to its antiviral activity against SARS-CoV, the coronavirus that causes SARS, or SARS-CoV-2, the coronavirus that causes COVID-19.

There are three big reasons for this:

• The concentrations shown to affect zinc transport are far higher than those required to kill the viruses.

• The zinc ionophore activity of chloroquine brings zinc into locations within the cell that would not be expected to kill the virus.

• Other effects that do occur at relevant concentrations have better support.

[Hip]

Interesting where he shows the slides of zinc penetrating the cells with chloroquine, they say the zinc was detected by "LysoTracker" technology; and the detected zinc does not appear to spread throughout the cytoplasm, but appears to be concentrated in lysosomes.  This is chloroquine, which is supposed to be a genuine zinc ionophore.  What's going on here?  

 

Interesting video.

 

Yes I think you are right, with chloroquine, the zinc seems localised to the lysosomes, rather than spreading throughout the cytosol of the cell. Which is not good if the antiviral effect of intracellular zinc relies on zinc being transported into the cytosol.

 

 

At 8:45 in the video, he refers to Figure 4 of this study, comparing the zinc ionophore efficacy of chloroquine (ChQ) with clioquinol. You can see in the figure they measure the amount of zinc transported into the cell using both the LysoTracker and the FluoZin-3 probes.  

 

I believe the FluoZin-3 stain measures zinc levels throughout the cytosol, whereas the LysoTracker stain detects zinc only in the lysosomes.

 

In Figure 4B, it looks like clioquinol has transported lots of zinc in the cell cytosol, looking at the green FluoZin-3 image.

 

Whereas in Figure 4A it looks like chloroquine only transports zinc into the lysosomes, because for chloroquine the green FluoZin-3 image looks identical to the red LysoTracker image.

 

 

 

So chloroquine might not be a good zinc ionophore for the purpose of inhibiting viral replication. 

 

Clioquinol on the other hand looks like a great zinc ionophore for antiviral purposes, and it is an existing antifungal and antiprotozoal drug.

 

But Wikipedia says:

Clioquinol's use as an antiprotozoal drug has been restricted or discontinued in some countries due to an event in Japan where over 10,000 people developed subacute myelo-optic neuropathy (SMON) between 1957 and 1970. The drug was used widely in many countries before and after the SMON event without similar reports.[7] As yet, no explanation exists as to why it produced this reaction, and some researchers have questioned whether clioquinol was the causative agent in the disease

 

 

However, this paper says:

There is still controversy concerning the association between clioquinol and SMON, which was extremely rare outside Japan [3]. The reason for the neurological side effect among Japanese is unknown, but it has been related to concomitant vitamin B deficiency

 

Although the paper goes on to say:

As it is a mitochondrial toxin, clioquinol/Zn chelate has been considered to be the ultimate cause of SMON

 

So it may be that while clioquinol may be safe on its own, the combo of clioquinol + zinc is a danger.

 

 

 The paper says clioquinol dosing is from 300 mg/day to 3.5 grams/day. 

 

 

I just Googled, and I cannot find any oral clioquinol for sale, so unfortunately it may have been taken off the market.

Edited by Hip, 30 July 2023 - 09:04 PM.

[Hip]

I have a little anecdote which may vouch for the antiviral efficacy of the zinc ionophore EGCG taken along with a zinc supplement.

 

In 2020 I was experimenting with a daily dose of EGCG 1200 mg with zinc 50 mg, after reading about the HCQ + zinc protocol for COVID.

 

Now a year earlier in 2019, I had caught a sore throat virus (not COVID), and this virus never seemed to clear, because for over a year, I had a constant tickly throat, so tickly that when I started talking, the intake of air required for speech would instantly make me cough. So every time I started to talk, I would end up coughing and spluttering.

 

I reasoned that I must have an ongoing low-level intracellular viral infection in the throat causing these tickly symptoms. Usually it is intracellular viral or bacterial infections, rather than extracellular infections, which are the long-term low-level ones. I tried a few different antiviral immune boosters to try to clear this tickly throat virus, but to no avail (except in the case of the immune booster oxymatrine, which did show some benefit).

 

However, within a few days of starting the EGCG + zinc protocol, my tickly throat symptoms vanished. This suggests this protocol had a rapid antiviral effect against my intracellular throat infection.

 

 

Edited by Hip, 30 July 2023 - 08:39 PM.

[Hip]

Just noticed in this article from Chris Masterjohn, that he does not think the zinc ionophore action of chloroquine is responsible for its in vitro antiviral effect against COVID. 

 

He says this is because chloroquine at a concentration of 10 uM increases the transport of zinc into the cell about 2.3-fold. Whereas chloroquine's antiviral activities against both SARS-CoV and SARS-CoV-2 begin at 0.1 uM, which is a concentration 100 times smaller. 

 

Plus he then mentions the fact that chloroquine brings zinc into the lysosomes only, not the cytosol. 

 

He thinks the in vitro antiviral action of chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine against COVID arise from increasing the pH of endosomes, and possibly a result of increasing the pH of the golgi apparatus, but not by acting as zinc ionophores.

 

 

 

Then in this article, Chris Masterjohn also throws doubt that the zinc ionophores EGCG and quercetin combined with a zinc supplement could have any useful antiviral effect against COVID in vivo, basically because the concentrations of these supplements reached in the blood is far too low.

 

He says a study showed quercetin and EGCG act as zinc ionophores.

 

But he says supplementation with quercetin 1095 mg only raises plasma concentrations to about 1 uM, which is 100 times lower than the concentrations used in the study.

 

And supplementation with EGCG 500 mg only raises plasma concentrations to 1.75 uM, which is 57 times lower than the concentrations used in this study.

 

Plus he says that while the in vitro study used a zinc concentrations of 50 μM, zinc concentrations in the blood are 12 to 18 uM, and 75-90% of this zinc in the blood is not even free, but protein bound.

 

Edited by Hip, 30 July 2023 - 11:06 PM.

[Dorian Grey]

Why did Einstein's quote 'The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know' just pop into my head?  

 

Guess it's time to add some EGCG into my COVID war chest.  Oh well...  Still plenty to like about HCQ:  

 

Anti-clotting / anti-fever / immune modulation / inhibition of sialic acid & inhibition of ACE2 glycosylation 

 

FLCCC says: As the Omicron variant uses the lysosomal pathway to gain cell entry, HCQ may be the preferred drug for this variant (TMPRSS2 / endocytosis entry pathway)

Edited by Dorian Grey, 30 July 2023 - 10:17 PM.

[Hip]

Shame about clioquinol, because this would have made a good zinc ionophore, but clioquinol + zinc turns out to be a potent mitochondrial toxin:
 
This study gives details:

Results: Of the ions tested, only clioquinol-zinc chelate demonstrated cytotoxicity. The cytotoxicity of clioquinol-zinc chelate was extremely rapid, suggesting that its primary effect was on the mitochondria. Electron microscopic analysis demonstrated that clioquinol-zinc chelate caused mitochondrial damage. This finding was further confirmed by the observation that clioquinol-zinc chelate caused a decrease in mitochondrial membrane potential.
 
Conclusions: We demonstrate that clioquinol, in the presence of zinc, is converted to a potent mitochondrial toxin.
 
The phenomenon of clioquinol mediated toxicity appears to be specific to zinc and is not seen with other metals tested. Since clioquinol has been shown to cause increased systemic absorption of zinc in humans, it is likely that clioquinol-zinc chelate was present in appreciable levels in patients with SMON and may be the ultimate causative toxin of SMON.

Edited by Hip, 30 July 2023 - 10:38 PM.

[Hip]

I should add that when I was doing my antiviral experiment taking EGCG 1200 mg with zinc 50 mg, rather than taking these two supplements separately, I placed then both in the same capsule. 

 

I reasoned that since EGCG is a zinc chelator, as soon as the capsule is swallowed and moistened by water in the stomach, the zinc supplement will ionise, and these zinc ions should then bond to the EGCG molecules. That way, you create an EGCG-zinc chelate that can directly enter cells.

 

So possibly this might help circumvent some of issues raised in the Chris Masterjohn article that were posted just above.  

 

[Hip]

Another approach to increasing intracellular zinc is the drug disulfiram (Antabuse), which is a treatment for alcoholism. This drug has been shown to "selectively and rapidly increased zinc levels in endo-lysosomes".

 

Interestingly, it was recently discovered that disulfiram kills the bacterial persisters in chronic Lyme disease.

[joesixpack]

I touched on the HCQ / Zinc ionophore issue here: https://www.longecit...inc-ionophores/

 

From the paper: The above report does allude to HCQ possibly getting zinc into the cytoplasm through an alternate mechanism:

 

 

"In vitro complexation studies and liposomal transport assays are correlated with cellular zinc assays in A549 lung epithelial cells to confirm the indirect mechanism of hydroxychloroquine-mediated elevation in intracellular zinc without ionophorism."

 

"Molecular simulations show hydroxychloroquine-triggered helix perturbation in zinc-finger protein without zinc chelation, a potential alternative non-ionophoric mechanism."

 

Joesixpack sent me a link on zinc ionophores on the page I linked to above.  Apparently there are "channel ionophores" which take zinc directly into cytoplasm, and "carrier ionophores" which transport zinc through the cell wall, but may contain it within lysosomes.  I recall Chris Masterjohn commenting on zinc being "carried" into the cell, but being trapped in the lysosomes where it wouldn't inhibit viral reproduction which occurs in cytoplasm.  

 

We do know Chloroquine is a channel ionophore...  Chloroquine is a zinc ionophore (PMID: 25271834) & this got me thinking old school quinine which is organic form chloroquine might be a better COVID combo with zinc.

 

I got some quinine (300mg/tab) from overseas pharmacy, and now take this with zinc if I ever get suspicious symptoms. This may be a superior ionophore, & the half life is much shorter than HCQ or old school chloroquine. If there is ever a surge of new & deadly variant, I'll be back on my HCQ though, as effectiveness has been fairly well documented when this is taken properly with the proper co-factor... ZINC!

 

I take Quercetin when I take Zinc.

[Mind]

People forget how long the CDC's lying has been going on. Remember the swine flu scare when the CDC wasn't even tracking the situation.

 

I still can't believe how many doctors and nurses were fired for their stance on the COVID response and the (failed) COVID injections. What a terrible pandemic policy - which is likely to be done again - because there are a lot of people who cheered on the vitriol - even in this forum.

 

Nothing says futility like trying to lockdown a population from a aerosolized respiratory virus - when it is spreading like wildfire in wild deer populations and then re-infecting people. Notice also that the IFR in deer is apparently exceptionally small, just like in humans.

 

A new report out of Scotland indicates the lockdowns were useless, like in most countries of the world. COVID spread everywhere - yet incompetent health leaders in the US/UK are probably ready to implement the failed policy again in the future.

 

US media is not honest or ethical enough to apologize to Sweden for their hands-off approach - such as this German newspaper did. I recall how the US media said Sweden was going to descend into death and destruction and cease to exist if they didn't mask everyone and lockdown. IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!

 

Thankfully, some people are coming forward with their horror stories of being caught in the corporate/pharma industrial complex during COVID.

[Hip]

People forget how long the CDC's lying has been going on. Remember the swine flu scare when the CDC wasn't even tracking the situation.

 

I don't think you really understand the nature of pandemics, Mind. Governments and the media are not trying to scare people just for the sake of it. The issue is that the severity of a pandemic is not known beforehand, and we always need to prepare for the worst.   

 

Your stance is like that of British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain, who during the rise of Hitler and the Nazis in Germany, was deluded into thinking that the Nazis presented no threat. So Chamberlain failed to prepare Britain for war, and did not build up Britain's military capabilities. Winston Churchill on the other hand was saying all the time that Hitler was a serious threat, and because Churchill got it right, he eventually replaced Chamberlain as PM.

Edited by Hip, 03 August 2023 - 10:46 PM.

[Mind]

Clown show idiots at CNN ARE REALLY still trying to scare people (like the CDC did throughout the the COVID panic). They are not "news". They are not "journalists".

 

CNN: COVID cases are rising!! Time for masking, lockdowns, testing, quarantines, and isolation again.

 

Here is a timeline of US COVID cases. Can you see the rise? Maybe use a magnifying glass.

 

 

 

Attached Files

•  US COVID now.jpg   81.74KB   0 downloads

Edited by Mind, 05 August 2023 - 01:22 PM.

[geo12the]

Clown show idiots at CNN ARE REALLY still trying to scare people (like the CDC did throughout the the COVID panic). They are not "news". They are not "journalists".

 

CNN: COVID cases are rising!! Time for masking, lockdowns, testing, quarantines, and isolation again.

 

Here is a timeline of US COVID cases. Can you see the rise? Maybe use a magnifying glass.

 

I didn't find this article scary. Here are some excerpts:

 

"US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention data show a slight increase in hospital admissions, emergency department visits, and positive Covid-19 tests — although not nearly as high as in past summers."

 

"In addition to vaccination, the best way to prevent the spread of Covid-19 is by isolating if you are sick. The CDC’s recommendation remains the same: Stay home for at least five days if you test positive for the virus."

 

"“As an infectious disease doctor, the best use of the mask is if you’re sick and especially if you have symptoms and putting it on to protect other people,” Chin-Hong says."

 

FWIW I don't watch CNN but I found that all in all the article was tame. It is popular among the conspiratorial anti-vax crowd to demonize CNN, and any news source that does not cater specifically to their distorted worldview, certainly the mainstream news does not always get it right, but I think people are tiring of kooky narratives pushed by the political fringes and conspiracy theory lovers.   

[Advocatus Diaboli]

Mind,

 

CNN does seem a bit premature. After all, the general elections aren't until Tuesday, November 5 2024. So, the scare tactics probably could have started a few weeks prior to any scheduled major debates between the opposing candidates. On the other hand, if Biden will actually be the (D) candidate, and it has been determined that a "basement campaign" will become absolutely necessary  in order for him to avoid pesky in-person debates, then starting this soon may be strategically sound. Hard to say.

 

I don't think CNN realizes that knowing what they know now, State Legislators and State Supreme Courts will be able to quickly pass laws allowing 90, or perhaps, 120 days-before-election mail-in voting, vote counting up to 30 days after the election, and other appropriate laws in plenty of time to ensure suffrage for those suffering from Covid-19 . They really don't need the scare tactics to start this soon. Unless, see above.

 

 

[geo12the]

Mind,

 

CNN does seem a bit premature. After all, the general elections aren't until Tuesday, November 5 2024. So, the scare tactics probably could have started a few weeks prior to any scheduled major debates between the opposing candidates. On the other hand, if Biden will actually be the (D) candidate, and it has been determined that a "basement campaign" will become absolutely necessary  in order for him to avoid pesky in-person debates, then starting this soon may be strategically sound. Hard to say.

 

I don't think CNN realizes that knowing what they know now, State Legislators and State Supreme Courts will be able to quickly pass laws allowing 90, or perhaps, 120 days-before-election mail-in voting, vote counting up to 30 days after the election, and other appropriate laws in plenty of time to ensure suffrage for those suffering from Covid-19 . They really don't need the scare tactics to start this soon. Unless, see above.

 

LOl, not sure what you are saying between the lines? Trying to confabulate COVID with presidential politics now that your guy is in a mess of his own making? Whatever.  

[Advocatus Diaboli]

Conflate, not confabulate. The Orange God King channeling a NY pulmonologist who is, by way of a recent metempsychosis currently an adorable corgie, barked out that message to me. 

 

Oh, by the way I gave you, geo12the, a couple of "Well researched" ratings to counter the "Unfriendly" ratings you were given. After all, as Kamala Harris once said after having essentially called  Biden a racist: "It was a debate". And, the only friend one has in a debate, is knowledge. Wow, that seems like a non sequitur, Thank God it wasn't a paraprosdokian. woof woof.

Edited by Advocatus Diaboli, 05 August 2023 - 06:26 PM.

[Mind]

Just a review of all the peer-reviewed research, opinions, and white papers about how awful and ineffective the COVID panic response was.

 

Just a reminder that jogging alone on the beach was illegal during the COVID panic - another stupid pandemic response.

 

During the COVID panic the Biden Administration wanted people kicked-off of social media if they pointed out how stupid and totally ineffective the government COVID response was. There were other efforts to "DESTROY" anyone who spoke out against some of the utterly stupid pandemic responses. Long after the common person on the street could plainly see that none of the pandemic policies were working, governments of the world were still trying to enforce them with an iron fist. More of these bureaucrats need to be fired.

 

Because of how awful the COVID response was, now no one wants any credit for any of the policies. During an Australian government investigation, Pfizer execs claim "No one was forced to get a vaccine". LOL.

 

Thankfully some of the people who were "not forced" to get the vaccine (just fired for refusing) are winning their lawsuits. Hopefully more lawsuits are coming for the big corps, local, state, and national governments.

[geo12the]

Conflate, not confabulate. The Orange God King channeling a NY pulmonologist who is, by way of a recent metempsychosis currently an adorable corgie, barked out that message to me. 

 

Oh, by the way I gave you, geo12the, a couple of "Well researched" ratings to counter the "Unfriendly" ratings you were given. After all, as Kamala Harris once said after having essentially called  Biden a racist: "It was a debate". And, the only friend one has in a debate, is knowledge. Wow, that seems like a non-sequitur, Thank God it wasn't a paraprosdokian. woof woof.

 

I gave you "cheerful" because, well, that is what your post was.

[Florin]

"“As an infectious disease doctor, the best use of the mask is if you’re sick and especially if you have symptoms and putting it on to protect other people,” Chin-Hong says."

 

This is just plain dumb. Unless this "mask" is a valveless N95, it won't work well at protecting anyone for what are obvious reasons (except to "experts"). And even if masks worked, a lot of people won't wear them or be asymptomatic. If people really want more protection than what current vaccines and treatments provide, they'll just have to wear respirators. 

[geo12the]

This is just plain dumb. Unless this "mask" is a valveless N95, it won't work well at protecting anyone for what are obvious reasons (except to "experts"). And even if masks worked, a lot of people won't wear them or be asymptomatic. If people really want more protection than what current vaccines and treatments provide, they'll just have to wear respirators. 

 

An N95 mask does provide some protection (not as much as respirator).  An anecdote based on my personal experience: Since the whole COVID thing I have worn masks whenever I have gone out. I didn't get sick once during that time even though I frequently went out. This summer I stopped wearing a mask when going out. And got sick with an annoying cold. Now I am rethinking going back to masking if I am high human density indoor situations. Because I hate being sick, even with a cold. I've explained a million times to anti-mask people, it's like 10 chain link fences one after the other. A golf ball can fit through the holes in the fence. But if you have a network of barriers it will keep most balls out.. That's the point. A mask will not keep all of the viral particles out, but enough of them to make a difference. 

[Florin]

An N95 mask does provide some protection (not as much as respirator).  An anecdote based on my personal experience: Since the whole COVID thing I have worn masks whenever I have gone out. I didn't get sick once during that time even though I frequently went out. This summer I stopped wearing a mask when going out. And got sick with an annoying cold. Now I am rethinking going back to masking if I am high human density indoor situations. Because I hate being sick, even with a cold. I've explained a million times to anti-mask people, it's like 10 chain link fences one after the other. A golf ball can fit through the holes in the fence. But if you have a network of barriers it will keep most balls out.. That's the point. A mask will not keep all of the viral particles out, but enough of them to make a difference. 

 

The quote referred to protecting others (people that aren't wearing any face covering) from getting covid by having the covid carrier wear a mask rather than a valveless respirator. Again, this is unlikely to work that well, and that's why it's a dumb idea.

 

Your self-protection strategy is ok-ish. Any kind of mask might protect you against certain strains of the cold and flu if almost everyone else is also using masks. If only you are using a better mask such as a KF94 or KN95, you might get adequate protection against the cold and flu. But if you want adequate protection against covid, you'll need a real respirator.

[Mind]

In case you were wondering why we ended up with pandemic responses that did not make any difference and were not based upon science - take a look at the interview for the new CDC director. When asked about pandemic responses in her state, she said she just called around and asked other bureaucrats "What are you doing? giggle, uh I don't know, What do you think will work, giggle". Watch the video.

 

Is it any wonder why the CDC still has videos about the COVID injections that were proven false over a year ago. The injections do not produce "immune memory". They barely work for a month or two. Incompetence writ large.

 

Incompetence. That is how we got school closures for so long with no evidence that schools were anymore likely to spread COVID than anywhere else. The number of cases that could be directly attributed to in-school transmission was extremely small. Peer-reviewed.

 

That is how a drug that is toxic to multiple organ systems was given to tens of thousands of people even though there is no robust evidence it works at all to help with COVID.

[Advocatus Diaboli]

Mind, your "Watch the video" and "about the..."  link to the same video. I'd like to see the giggle video.

[Mind]

Sorry about that. Here is the video.

 

Like CNN, other US media outlets, such as Slate, are trying to ramp up COVID panic once again (with college kids writing the stories)

 

Interesting that I get more quality information from comedians that from government bureaucrats nowadays.

 

Jimmy Dore is not letting health officials and the media get away with lying to the public - like when they say "no one ever said the COVID injections would stop transmission of the virus"

[Hip]

Interesting that I get more quality information from comedians that from government bureaucrats nowadays.

 

Joesph Murky-Cola should be incarcerated and put on death row for his disservice to humanity. 

[Daniel Cooper]

Joesph Murky-Cola should be incarcerated and put on death row for his disservice to humanity. 

 

 

I generally frown in imprisoning and executing people that disagree with me or even the prevailing wisdom.

 

People are grown adults. If they want to follow Mercola's advice, so be it. Neither I, nor you, nor the government are their parent.

 

You can either have freedom of thought and expression which necessarily means that sometimes bad or even dangerous information gets passed around, or you can have some sort of authoritarian regime. You can't have freedom and ensure that only the "correct" (which is to say the government approved) information is disseminated.

 

I personally come down on the side of freedom, which is a messy situation. But, it seems to be significantly better than the alternatives.

[Hip]

I generally frown in imprisoning and executing people that disagree with me or even the prevailing wisdom.

 

Even if their message leads to the death of people?

 

Joseph Mercola's antivax messaging must have resulted in the death of many people. Hard to estimate how many, but it could be tens, hundreds, it could be thousands of people.

 

If you believe that messaging which causes fatalities should be protected under freedom of speech, what would you do in cases such as the Heaven's Gate religious cult, where their crazy leader convinced his religious followers that they should all commit suicide, after which their souls would be picked up by an alien spacecraft hidden behind a passing comet. 

 

Quite a few Heaven's Gate followers killed themselves because of this messaging. 

 

Would you arrest the leaders of Heaven's Gate because of this, or would you allow them to continue to spread their messaging?

 

 

I always see Mercola as a crazy religious cult leader. If you look at the beginning of the video posted above, Murky-Cola has the crazy eyes of a cult leader.