982 replies to this topic

[Mind]

Implying that millions of excess deaths was caused by loneliness is ridiculous. Elderly people are used to it, and a few weeks of a tiny bit more isolation would make little difference.

 

This statement is incredibly callous and dethatched from reality.

 

Young people weren't the only ones committing suicide at much higher rates during the COVID hysteria - elderly people were as well. Care homes were not isolated for "a few weeks". It was closer to two years of what was essentially solitary confinement - only being seen by a person wearing, gloves, masks, sterile suits, etc... No real human contact what-so-ever. I witnessed this firsthand. I could not visit my older cousin in the hospital without staying 6 feet away and wearing a mask. I could visit my mother-in-law while she was recuperating from brain surgery in a care home. They couldn't see their relatives. They couldn't go to church. It was awful.

 

Research showing the very detrimental health effects from isolation, depression, stress, fear, loneliness, etc...has been going on for decades and is not in dispute. US/UK "health" bureaucracies were warned that there would be significant detrimental health effects from the stoopid COVID panic policies. They ignored it. We all paid the price.

[Mind]

Recently we had German health officials testifying in court that they were NOT following the science on vaccine mandates and other measures, but were instead being pressured from "the outside" to go against the science.

 

Now we have testimony in Finland revealing that the government was advised against vaccine mandates, but did them anyway, going against the science.

 

The current CEO of NPR admits to censoring COVID information on Wikipedia at the behest of the US government. This is how all of the factual information about natural immunity, Ivermectin, vax side effects, etc.. was kept from the public.

[Florin]

This statement is incredibly callous and dethatched from reality.

 

Young people weren't the only ones committing suicide at much higher rates during the COVID hysteria - elderly people were as well. Care homes were not isolated for "a few weeks". It was closer to two years of what was essentially solitary confinement - only being seen by a person wearing, gloves, masks, sterile suits, etc... No real human contact what-so-ever. I witnessed this firsthand. I could not visit my older cousin in the hospital without staying 6 feet away and wearing a mask. I could visit my mother-in-law while she was recuperating from brain surgery in a care home. They couldn't see their relatives. They couldn't go to church. It was awful.

 

Research showing the very detrimental health effects from isolation, depression, stress, fear, loneliness, etc...has been going on for decades and is not in dispute. US/UK "health" bureaucracies were warned that there would be significant detrimental health effects from the stoopid COVID panic policies. They ignored it. We all paid the price.

 

Do you have any real evidence that a significant portion of excess deaths were caused by suicide or somehow connected to loneliness? From what you've written, I doubt it. In fact, suicide stats indicate that there wasn't any unusual increase in suicide, and in 2020 and 2021, the suicide rate actually decreased from its previous peak in 2018.

 

The elderly weren't as involuntarily isolated as you claim. They have access to a least a phone and a lot of them can do video calls. In some States, nursing homes were isolated for years, but I doubt this was the case in every State or in much of the rest of the world. And again, I've seen no evidence that most nursing home residents in the US are visited often (several times per week) anyway. If, on average, every nursing home resident is visited once per week and every nursing home was closed for a month during a covid wave, nursing homes would have been isolated for only "a few weeks" each year.

[joesixpack]

Sure, here in the US, were suddenly cut off for almost a year from: going to the gym, going to church, going out to eat, going to the movies, going to athletic events at all levels, traveling, visiting relative for holidays, going to the beach, going to school, having "elective surgery", going to the Doctor, no live entertainment events.

 

We don't need a study to know these things are harmful, especially for retired individuals. In addition, all the above closings and lockdowns led to the closing a many businesses, that were forced to shut their doors. We shut down churches, but paradoxically kept bars, liquor stores and strip joints open.

[Mind]

Don't forget how insane and stupid the COVID panic was, all for a disease that has a extremely tiny IFR  (like the flu) for people under 70.

 

Don't forget that idiotic media outlets in the US were writing headlines like this.

 

The government/media-generated hatred toward anyone who suggested any alternatives or questioned the need for the COVID injections was widespread and nearly non-stop.

 

Now, almost no one is taking the COVID injections/boosters and all those who were filled with vein-popping rage about the "anti-vaxxers" are suddenly silent - and not getting the latest booster. They should apologize.

[Mind]

The COVID policy of US "health" bureaucracies lying to the public and hiding data has got to be discarded. "Health" leaders in the US are decrying the lack of trust in the CDC, FDA, NIH, etc. If they keep lying and hiding data from the public...what do they expect. No one should trust them. No one should trust their "studies". No one should trust their guidance.

 

The latest instance is the NIH hiding the details of their COVID injection royalty agreement with big pharma corps. Usually, ethical people will disclose conflicts of interest - which is standard practice in ethical science and public policy.

[Mind]

I am very familiar with the Milgram experiment, the Stanford prison experiment, the Asch conformity experiment etc...but I was still surprised how quickly so many people could be misled into madness, hatred, and unscientific actions during the COVID panic. Here is a good video to drive the point home. The most important quote is in the very beginning. How true.

[Mind]

Previously, Dr. Fauci testified that the 6 foot social distancing requirement was completely made up. Now Francis Collins testifies the same.

 

I am dismayed at the number of people who bought the 6-foot rule hook, line, and sinker. Going so far as to foment extreme hatred upon anyone who wanted to be with their loved ones, gather for holidays, sing together, etc...

[Florin]

Previously, Dr. Fauci testified that the 6 foot social distancing requirement was completely made up. Now Francis Collins testifies the same.

 

I am dismayed at the number of people who bought the 6-foot rule hook, line, and sinker. Going so far as to foment extreme hatred upon anyone who wanted to be with their loved ones, gather for holidays, sing together, etc...

 

Not quite. As I mentioned before, there was some evidence supporting the 6-foot rule even if people like Fauci and Collins don't know where it came from.

 

The really dumb thing about this rule is that once masking was imposed, there was no point in this kind of social distancing as droplets would be stopped by almost any kind of mask.

[Daniel Cooper]

I just wish retail stores would take up their 6 foot spacing marking decals on the floor in their check-out lanes. At this point they are pretty grubby and worn and completely unnecessary.

 

Most have moved on since covid, but there are a stubborn few who have not and some lingering vestiges of some measures that were largely unproductive. I certainly don't care if anyone still wants to mask up, but let's at least get these marks off the floors.

 

Time to move on. 

[Mind]

Why is Peter Hotez so unhinged about anyone discussing facts about the COVID panic, sharing peer-reviewed research, and using alternative treatments?

 

Because he was in on the cover-up, leading the discussions with Fauci, Collins, Farrah, etc. about how to delete evidence and emails revolving around the lab-leak and such. These people have committed multiple serious crimes. Where is the prosecution?

[adamh]

I remember the signs everywhere and the stickers on the floor showing where you are supposed to stand. One grocery store even had direction signs, you were only supposed to go in one direction in the isle. So if you wanted to go down an isle and it had an arrow pointing back, you had to go down another isle so you could go to the correct end and obey the sign. It made about as much sense as all the rest. I would go in some places with no mask and it was fine, some bitched at you. I even went to a medical appointment without a mask and they said nothing. That was a year or two into the covid panic

 

I can't believe they still are lying and covering it all up. They STILL push the shot on everyone even children now. Lots of people take it and believe the lies. I don't believe a thing that comes from govt or any agencies like fda, who, etc etc. If they say something, I say "maybe" and I check it out and many times its a lie. Once in a while govt says something true, just as a stopped clock is occasionally correct

 

 

[Mind]

More absolutely jaw-dropping testimony about the lies and unethical behavior behind the scenes of the COVID panic. Remember, Mfume is a far-left authoritarian. His main goal is to NEVER degrade the authority of the government. Yet even he is shocked by the criminality.

 

And still, no one is being prosecuted. The same grotesque national media outlets and government "health" bureaucrats that led the COVID deception are still in charge and there appears to be no one who will bring accountability.

[Mind]

Now it has been confirmed that doctors were being intimidated into silence by regulatory boards - anytime they brought forth concerns over patient safety.

 

Many astute observers were somewhat critical of the US health system and big pharma for decades now, but a large majority of people still went along with it, believing in the end that rationality, peer-reviewed science, and unbiased directives would rule the day. The COVID panic blew those beliefs out of the water. The COVID panic response was so bizarre, heavy-handed, and unscientific that it spawned an entire 31 page topic here at LongeCity trying to figure out what the heck was going on.

[Mind]

Recall this episode in 2021 when many people were starting to get even MORE suspicious of Dr. Fauci and his motives (and the whole overblown COVID panic) - an animal rights organization found out that Dr. Fauci had signed off on grants to have beagles tortured by sand flies. Researchers had to cut the vocal cords out of the dogs because they couldn't stand to here the puppies cry.

 

Anyway, because the US National media is utter trash, they covered for Dr. Fauci, claiming it was a "right wing conspiracy theory". Now the Washington Post has come out and said it was true all along and they got their reporting wrong because of a "bungled PR response" and a bunch of other BS.

 

Do you realize how much of the COVID episode was fake? Do you realize how much you were lied to? Recall also the FAKE social media accounts of doctors/nurses saying how bad the situation was. Remember the fake studies about HCQ (claiming it didn't work). I could go on and on and on.

 

 

[Mind]

Peer-reviewed research shows that there is NO correlation between viral load and disease severity in COVID-19. What matters most is underlying immunity, not total viral exposure.

 

Remember when we were told by (mainly US/UK) "health" authorities that there was no such thing as natural immunity and that talking about natural immunity was DANGEROUS!.

 

Remember when we were told - with zero science to back it up - that we should wear masks in order to lower the total viral exposure.

 

Remember when we were prevented from going outside - even alone on the beach - in order to reduce viral exposure.

 

Remember when gyms were closed for the same reasons.

 

It was all unscientific BS. Dr. Fauci and Dr. Collins even testified that there was no scientific evidence for the 6 foot social distancing.

 

It was all made up on the fly with no rational basis.

 

The COVID panic measures made things worse - NOT better. The panic response lowered people's immunity and made them MORE vulnerable. People were lonely, depressed, stressed, fearful, isolated, with no exercise and no fresh air or sunshine.

 

Why do you believe anything the US "health" authorities say? I can't believe people follow any of there guidance.

Edited by Mind, 13 June 2024 - 05:04 PM.

[Florin]

Natural immunity is cold comfort for the millions who died of covid or the millions more who got hospitalized.

[pamojja]

Millions died as any other year at the end of life-expectancy, with in average 3 comorbid conditions and an opportunistic infection. The difference to other years was the complete lack of a serious attempt for treatment (for allowing emergency authorization of experimental vaccines), or very deathly ones. And mitigation strategies which increased mortality even after the introduction of mRNA shots.

 

 

 

 

[Mind]

Natural immunity is cold comfort for the millions who died of covid or the millions more who got hospitalized.

 

Most were iatrogenic deaths. The average age of death from COVID around the world is 80. People were put on deadly Remdesivir and ventilators, isolated and left to die. Most did not get standard pneumonia care. It is sad that so many died- yes - even more tragic that these deaths could have been prevented or at least delayed (in the case of the frail elderly with comorbidities, like my uncle).

 

Remember the government was paying out hundreds of billions of dollars to push false narratives. In addition, there were scores of fake doctor/nurse accounts on social media pushing non-stop unwarranted fear.

 

People need to come to grips with the fact that most of what you saw or heard during the COVID panic was completely false. I read about the Asch Conformity Experiment decades ago. I always thought I would not be so easily duped as to follow the crowd and disbelieve my eyes/senses/reality. Yet, there I was in the beginning of the COVID panic believing everything the "health" authorities said, even though there was plenty of evidence to show (very early on) that they were lying and pushing a narrative. I am embarrassed about it. I am glad I started reading the science and trusting what I could see in my own community. Sad that so many still believe the false government narratives.

[Florin]

Most were iatrogenic deaths. The average age of death from COVID around the world is 80. People were put on deadly Remdesivir and ventilators, isolated and left to die. Most did not get standard pneumonia care. It is sad that so many died- yes - even more tragic that these deaths could have been prevented or at least delayed (in the case of the frail elderly with comorbidities, like my uncle).

 

Natural immunity would be useless for those 80-year-olds; they'd still die once they became infected "naturally." They got put on ventilators, because respirators weren't used to prevent infection. As for ventilator use, I'm not paranoid enough to believe that most ER doctors are incompetent. And as for Remdesivir, plenty died before it was in widespread use, and I'm also not paranoid enough to think that it caused millions of deaths after it got approved. You can blame ER docs for not being able to save the lives of accident victims or you can blame the victims for not wearing seat belts. I haven't seen any evidence to that ER docs are to blame for millions of covid deaths.

Edited by Florin, 14 June 2024 - 10:09 PM.

[Dorian Grey]

My wife is a nurse at our major San Diego hospital, & she said so many wound up on remdesivir & a vent because that was all the ICU docs were allowed to use.  They couldn't even give steroids for several months into the plague until results from trials came back. Some also rushed patients onto ventilators as this closed the respiratory loop, greatly containing what they thought was highly contagious respiratory aerosols. 

 

Of course they later learned by the time patients went critical, the viral replication phase was largely over and contained by the bodies own immune system, and the COVID pneumonia was inflammation related.  This also made remdesivir likely futile for hospitalized patients, as peak viral loads were long gone by the time patients were started on Fauci's magic elixir.  

 

The "millions of deaths" were most likely due to absolutely nothing being allowed prescribed outside of the hospitals, to keep people out of the hospitals and futile remdesivir & a vent.  Fauci even poo-pooed Vitamin-D and Zinc for at risk populations during surges.  "Just wear a mask" was what he prescribed.  

[Florin]

My wife is a nurse at our major San Diego hospital, & she said so many wound up on remdesivir & a vent because that was all the ICU docs were allowed to use.  They couldn't even give steroids for several months into the plague until results from trials came back. Some also rushed patients onto ventilators as this closed the respiratory loop, greatly containing what they thought was highly contagious respiratory aerosols. 

 

Of course they later learned by the time patients went critical, the viral replication phase was largely over and contained by the bodies own immune system, and the COVID pneumonia was inflammation related.  This also made remdesivir likely futile for hospitalized patients, as peak viral loads were long gone by the time patients were started on Fauci's magic elixir.  

 

The "millions of deaths" were most likely due to absolutely nothing being allowed prescribed outside of the hospitals, to keep people out of the hospitals and futile remdesivir & a vent.  Fauci even poo-pooed Vitamin-D and Zinc for at risk populations during surges.  "Just wear a mask" was what he prescribed.  

 

But the CDC/Fauci didn't dictate policy worldwide, and I'm not sure that there was any nationwide ICU policy either. On the other hand, your analysis might be correct and these policies spread worldwide like masks mandates and social distancing, but unless you can point to studies or reporting about this, I have no way of verifying these claims. I can see that mistakes could have been made at the beginning, but I doubt they lasted much longer after the first wave hit.

 

If the argument is that ICUs were the actual killer and doing nothing (natural immunity) would have worked a lot better, people wouldn't have dropped dead like flies in places like Italy and Brazil due to lack of ICU capacity or oxygen tanks nor would China have built hospitals overnight and quarantined everyone. This sounds like a little too much like the ridiculous "it's just the flu" argument.

[Dorian Grey]

But the CDC/Fauci didn't dictate policy worldwide, and I'm not sure that there was any nationwide ICU policy either. On the other hand, your analysis might be correct and these policies spread worldwide like masks mandates and social distancing, but unless you can point to studies or reporting about this, I have no way of verifying these claims. I can see that mistakes could have been made at the beginning, but I doubt they lasted much longer after the first wave hit.

 

If the argument is that ICUs were the actual killer and doing nothing (natural immunity) would have worked a lot better, people wouldn't have dropped dead like flies in places like Italy and Brazil due to lack of ICU capacity or oxygen tanks nor would China have built hospitals overnight and quarantined everyone. This sounds like a little too much like the ridiculous "it's just the flu" argument.

 

If you look at total COVID deaths per million population, it should jump right out at you we were doing something very wrong in the USA. 

 

https://www.worldome...fo/coronavirus/

 

If you look at countries treating COVID early/outside of the hospitals you may see why...  https://c19hcq.org/

 

"Meta Analysis 586 HCQ COVID-19 studies, 463 peer reviewed, 417 comparing treatment and control groups. Late treatment and high dosages may be harmful, while early treatment consistently shows positive results. Negative evaluations typically ignore treatment delay.

 

HCQ/CQ was adopted in all or part of 46 countries (61 including non-government medical organizations)".

 

--------------------------

 

You've got to treat patients if you want them to live.  We learned from a quarter century experience with Tamiflu (and more recently with Paxlovid), treating early is the key with fast moving respiratory viral infections.  

 

Treat early, & patients live.  Wait till they go critical, and they die.  You may recall, any and all outpatient treatments for COVID were frantically suppressed in the USA until Big Pharma's Billion Dollar Babies hatched.  

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Edited by Dorian Grey, 15 June 2024 - 02:30 PM.

[Florin]

If you look at total COVID deaths per million population, it should jump right out at you we were doing something very wrong in the USA. 

 

https://www.worldome...fo/coronavirus/

 

If you look at countries treating COVID early/outside of the hospitals you may see why...  https://c19hcq.org/

 

"Meta Analysis 586 HCQ COVID-19 studies, 463 peer reviewed, 417 comparing treatment and control groups. Late treatment and high dosages may be harmful, while early treatment consistently shows positive results. Negative evaluations typically ignore treatment delay.

 

HCQ/CQ was adopted in all or part of 46 countries (61 including non-government medical organizations)".

 

--------------------------

 

You've got to treat patients if you want them to live.  We learned from a quarter century experience with Tamiflu (and more recently with Paxlovid), treating early is the key with fast moving respiratory viral infections.  

 

Treat early, & patients live.  Wait till they go critical, and they die.  You may recall, any and all outpatient treatments for COVID were frantically suppressed in the USA until Big Pharma's Billion Dollar Babies hatched.  

 

If look at the entire pandemic, some of the HCQ-using countries you mentioned had worse covid stats than some of the HCQ-restricting countries. Like masks, it seems that HCQ might not be so great after all.

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[Dorian Grey]

If look at the entire pandemic, some of the HCQ-using countries you mentioned had worse covid stats than some of the HCQ-restricting countries. Like masks, it seems that HCQ might not be so great after all.

 

Aye some countries did better than others expediting treatment, while others allowed treatment, but were less svelte with their response.  

 

I like to look at the meta-analysis rather than holding up an isolated snapshot of a singularity.  What do you make of the meta?  

 

https://c19hcq.org/meta.html

 

Abstract

Early treatment shows 66% [54‑74%] lower risk with pooled effects in 39 studies. Results are similar for higher quality studies and for peer-reviewed studies. The 17 mortality and 16 hospitalization results show 76% [61‑85%] lower mortality and 41% [28‑51%] lower hospitalization.

Late treatment is less successful, with 22% [18‑26%] lower risk from 264 studies. Very late treatment may be harmful, especially with excessive dosages.

Randomized Controlled Trials show 19% [6‑30%] lower risk, or 25% [11‑37%] when excluding late treatment.

 

There is substantial bias towards publishing negative results. Prospective studies show higher efficacy. Negative RCTs received priority treatment at top journals, while positive trials report difficulty publishing. There is a strong geographical bias, with significantly more negative studies from North America.

[Florin]

Randomized Controlled Trials show 19% [/size][6‑30%][/size] lower risk, or 25% [/size][11‑37%][/size] when excluding late treatment.[/size]

 
If 25% lower risk is the best case scenario, it looks similar to a mask study from India in terms of risk reduction. At best, it may have had a modest effect earlier in the pandemic (like masks), but once more dangerous and contagious covid variants emerged, it lost whatever effectiveness it may have had. In other words, millions would still have died even if everyone was taking HCQ "early."
 
Also, some of the RCTs showing lower risk might not be that relevant.
 
The myth of hydroxychloroquine in the treatment of SARS-CoV-2 infection
https://tasmanmedica...ov-2-infection/
 

Clancy refers to a database of all HCQ studies.12  They are grouped according to the category of evidence and include a group of 11 claimed to be in early disease studied by controlled trials.  These 11 trials are analysed in a meta-analysis in spite of varying endpoints.  A summary table is available on request.  Only one study reported efficacy for HCQ in Covid-19 at borderline levels of statistical significance, in groups given several combinations of treatment including HCQ with several antivirals.  Interpretation of this trial is extremely difficult.  Two of the 11 trials were in hospitalised patients (that is, did not satisfy a reasonable early disease criterion), and in several others “early” Covid was apparently declared on the basis of “mild” disease.  One included study13 was abandoned after only 20 enrolments and reported results in only 7 patients given HCQ+azithromycin and 9 given placebo.  The study reported no deaths but 1 patient given placebo was admitted to hospital.  The site claims, on the basis of continuity correction for studies with zero events, that the result demonstrates that HCQ provided a 64% “improvement”, but this is unconvincing on the basis of the multiplicity of treatments and the small number of patients.13

Edited by Florin, 16 June 2024 - 03:14 AM.

[Dorian Grey]

I'll certainly agree, HCQ was more helpful & important in 2020/21 than after omicron swept the world.  This is my BIG BEEF with the pandemic management.  

 

Fauci & his followers (with deep ties to Big Pharma) didn't want ANYONE getting ANY KIND of treatment outside of hospital walls; buying time for the billion dollar babies to hatch.  

 

The weak benefit seen in the RCTs, is primarily due to time wasted getting people tested (results took days early on), enrolled, and started on their med.  On the front lines, I recall Dr Zelenko saying he had HCQ on hand to get his patients started on before they even got their test results or prescriptions filled.  If they had symptoms, they got treated...  IMMEDIATELY! 

 

We're literally talking about all the difference in the world with Tamiflu's critical window within 48 hours (and after 36 I'd bet benefit is puny).  Paxlovid is marketed as good for 5 days, but the remarkable benefit advertised was achieved through a 3 day sub-cohort.  

 

What's HCQ's ideal window?  Day one (symptom onset) is probably best...  I expect you'd get better benefit on day 2-3 than on 5-7 too.  It would be interesting to see a meta-analysis of truly early treatment with HCQ (2-3 days), though with omicron, we're probably not talking big benefits regarding hospitalization & mortality.  

 

2020/21 was when we needed HCQ the most, and where it was frantically suppressed, when we had nothing regarding outpatient treatment.  Millions of seniors, alone & afraid, watching the clock tick as their symptoms got worse; knowing if they picked up the phone, they'd be on a vent within an hour or so.  

 

It was the crime of the century, and everyone should do their best never to forget.  

Edited by Dorian Grey, 16 June 2024 - 04:34 AM.

[Mind]

I am not saying there would have been no deaths were it not for the destructive and utterly ineffective COVID policies led by the US/UK "health" authorities. Based-upon the data, it would have been like a bad flu season where a lot of old and frail people would have died in the hospital or nursing homes and no one would have noticed much. Instead, the US/UK health authorities destroyed normal society and spread MAXIMUM fear all the time. This led to millions of unnecessary deaths around the world.

 

People have to come to grips with the facts. Most information you were force-fed by the US/UK governments during the COVID panic was provably false. What you think you saw happening and what you heard on the media was mostly narrative and propaganda.

[Mind]

A modelling study finds that the typical government responses to COVID-19 provided no benefit to society, only harms.

[Florin]

2020/21 was when we needed HCQ the most, and where it was frantically suppressed, when we had nothing regarding outpatient treatment.  Millions of seniors, alone & afraid, watching the clock tick as their symptoms got worse; knowing if they picked up the phone, they'd be on a vent within an hour or so.

 

Hmm, it seems that HCQ wasn't so impressive in 2020 and even less so in 2021.

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Edited by Florin, 16 June 2024 - 06:58 PM.