123 replies to this topic

[pamojja]

Here an alternative link to that article: https://archive.is/ONUmi

 

And here a video in confirmation:

 

 

 

"We are operating under a medical paradigm that is untrue. In short, we are treating the wrong disease."

..

 

"It appears as some kind of viral induced disease most resembling high altitude sickness. It is as if tens of thousands of my fellow New Yorkers are on a plane at 30,000 feet and the cabin pressure is slowly being let out. These patients are slowly being starved of oxygen."

 

Edited by pamojja, 08 April 2020 - 04:24 PM.

[pamojja]

From the Expert consensus on comprehensive treatment of coronavirus disease in Shanghai 2019

 

 

6. Prevention and treatment of cytokine storm: It is recommended to use large doses of vitamin C and unfractionated heparin. Large doses of vitamin C are injected intravenously at a dose of 100 to 200 mg / kg per day. The duration of continuous use is to significantly improve the oxygenation index. The use of large Dose of the broad-spectrum protease inhibitor ulinastatin, given 1.6 million units, once every 8 h, under mechanical ventilation, when the oxygenation index> 300 mmHg can be reduced to 1 million units / d. Anticoagulation can be taken The treatment protects endothelial cells and reduces the release of cytokines. When FDP ≥ 10 µg / mL and / or D-dimer ≥ 5 μg / mL, heparin (3-15 IU / kg per hour) is given anticoagulation. Heparin is used for the first time. The patient's coagulation function and platelets must be re-examined 4 h later. ISVVH is used for 6 to 10 h every day.

 

I really loosing my temper with the western arrogance wanting to do everything in standard ways, without willingness to learn anything from the east.

[Mr Spock]

Russ Maughan,

 

Good post for the layman.

 

So outside a clinical environment- and for those who want to prevent it coming to their door,what supps would you recommend?

 

 

[Hebbeh]

There is no ‘pneumonia’ nor ARDS.............COVID-19 causes prolonged and progressive hypoxia (starving your body of oxygen) by binding to the heme groups in hemoglobin in your red blood cells. People are simply desaturating (losing o2 in their blood), and that’s what eventually leads to organ failures that kill them, not any form of ARDS or pneumonia. All the damage to the lungs you see in CT scans are from the release of oxidative iron from the hemes, this overwhelms the natural defenses against pulmonary oxidative stress and causes that nice, always-bilateral ground glass opacity in the lungs. Patients returning for re-hospitalization days or weeks after recovery suffering from apparent delayed post-hypoxic leukoencephalopathy strengthen the notion COVID-19 patients are suffering from hypoxia despite no signs of respiratory ‘tire out’ o

 

 

This certainly seems like nothing more than somebodies vivid imagination.  If there was any truth to this theory (and it is nothing more than theory not backed by the existing science), then why are predominantly only the elderly suffering the extreme life threatening symptoms and hardly any in the younger age groups?  If there was any truth to this, then there would be the same degree of symptoms across all age groups and not just predominately the elderly.  And all the professionals agree that this does develop into pneumonia and it is a corona virus ARDS.  Obviously, this was written by an amateur armchair "doctor" and is seriously flawed in all respects.  You will not find any of the thousands of actual scientists and medical professionals across the globe who have been watching and studying this first hand ever mentioning anything remotely like this.

 

This actually appears to have a veiled political bend with unneeded comments like:

 

Well, a few had some things eerily correct (cough Trump cough)

 

 

and

 

All that hilariously misguided and counterproductive criticism the media piled on chloroquine (purely for political reasons) as a viable treatment will now go down as the biggest Fake News blunder to rule them all. The media actively engaged their activism to fight ‘bad orange man’ at the cost of thousands of lives. Shame on them.

 

 

and

 

Don’t trust China. China is ASSHOE. (disclaimer: not talking about the people, just talking about the regime). They covered this up and have caused all kinds of death and carnage, both literal and economic.

 

 

It would appear this is the real fake news with a political bend to defend the President and the lack of "unneeded" ventilators.

 

Edit:  Does anybody else find it strange that this "doctor" is "filming" this in his kitchen?  Seriously?

Edited by Hebbeh, 08 April 2020 - 11:04 PM.

[Russ Maughan]

I caught it several weeks ago, thought it was pneumonia, treated it like a flu, fluids and rest, but when I started feeling like I would dround I used a 2 year old inhaler that gave pretty good temporary relief. Baby aspirin took care of a mild fever. Most upsetting was how long it took to get over it. If memory serves that was about 3 weeks total once symptoms started.

Main reason I posted that was I knew from experience the media (cough) was on the wrong track. I think we should refer to Covid-19 as a Blood Flu? My first course of self treatment was probiotics. Probably did my body a lot of good in other ways but useless against this stuff.

[Hebbeh]

I caught it several weeks ago, thought it was pneumonia, treated it like a flu, fluids and rest, but when I started feeling like I would dround I used a 2 year old inhaler that gave pretty good temporary relief. Baby aspirin took care of a mild fever. Most upsetting was how long it took to get over it. If memory serves that was about 3 weeks total once symptoms started.

Main reason I posted that was I knew from experience the media (cough) was on the wrong track. I think we should refer to Covid-19 as a Blood Flu? My first course of self treatment was probiotics. Probably did my body a lot of good in other ways but useless against this stuff.

 

The feeling of drowning is caused by fluid in the lungs which is a classic symptom of pneumonia and that is what the medical experts (including the original doctor in China) have been reporting (including the long duration of symptoms) in the media.  What, in your experience, causes you to believe "from experience the media (cough) was on the wrong track" ?  Do you believe that the media is making everything up instead of reporting what they are hearing from the medical experts?  BTW, typically it takes much longer to recover from pneumonia than a cold or the flu...ask anybody that has had pneumonia (and yes I have).

 

Also, has anybody ever read any commentary or reporting from a medical professional (or any kind of professional) that is worded so unprofessional as that made up blog?  And obviously the fake blogger was biased with an agenda.  This is exactly what we don't need right now.

[Russ Maughan]

I recieved the inhaler for pneumonia 2 years ago, is the only reason I had it. And I've smoked cigarettes since I was 7 years old, so heavy mucus build up is not unfamiliar. At no time in my life have I ever felt so starved of oxygen and actually scared. If labs will take this^^ approach and treat it as a blood dissorder at least it gives a direction to start from that could lead to something simpler and faster for the country/world.

 

Contract it yourself and compare your experience to pneumonia. You will agree it is nothing like it after the first week.

[Hebbeh]

I recieved the inhaler for pneumonia 2 years ago, is the only reason I had it. And I've smoked cigarettes since I was 7 years old, so heavy mucus build up is not unfamiliar. At no time in my life have I ever felt so starved of oxygen and actually scared. If labs will take this^^ approach and treat it as a blood dissorder at least it gives a direction to start from that could lead to something simpler and faster for the country/world.

 

Contract it yourself and compare your experience to pneumonia. You will agree it is nothing like it after the first week.

 

Perhaps I have had it... I don't know...  see my earlier post linked below.  But regardless, in spite of your typical COVID-19 symptoms, what makes you so sure it was all due to a blood disorder rather than the lung damage so typically reported?

 

My experience (I was initially skeptical we had COVID-19 but now not so sure as people report a range of symptom severity)(post #5):

 

https://www.longecit...-antibody-test/

 

Despite COVID-19, this as been a bad year for bad colds and flu.  Prior to the current COVID-19 disaster, many of us endured serious creeping cruds and flu dating all the way back to November.  My oldest daughter's family including her 2 toddlers were passing it back and forth for the whole month of November and into December.  My daughter, who works in the school system, was sick with upper respiratory for the better part of a month.  In spite of spending Thanksgiving weekend in their house, my wife, 19 month old toddler and myself managed to dodge it at that time.  However, my wife ended up with it the week before Christmas, we suspect from friends at Church.  My wife ended up sick with nasty upper respiratory (including the dry cough, fevor, chills, and aches) for a full 3 weeks and just as she was getting over it and I thought our toddler and I were going to duck it, my toddler came down with it followed by me 2 or 3 days latter.  My toddler was only sick with a snotty nose for about a week to 10 days but I was sick for a full 4 weeks and I typically never get sick and when I have had a bad cold in the past it never lasts for more than a week or 10 days...never anything like this 4 weeks.  It wasn't in my lungs but I had a ton of bronchial congestion coughing up phlegm.  I never went to the Dr as a couple times I thought I was getting over it and then would relapse.  I attributed the duration of my sickness (especially since I rarely get sick) to chronic sleep deprivation, averaging 5 hours at best the past couple months due to my toddler and work schedule.  BTW, I'm 63 and I used to weather this type schedule better a few years ago.  This all stretch over from November with my older daughter's family to December into February in my immediate family including myself.  During this time, we discovered many of the people we know through church had also been sick with it and most were elderly.  By January into February, many of my co-workers were suffering with it and many were obviously very sick for 2+ weeks.  My point is that something very bad had been going around most of the winter and I personally know many elderly people in addition to all ages to have had it but unlike the current COVID-19, I never heard of anybody ending up in the hospital due to it or any of the elderly dying from it in spite of all the elderly I was aware caught it (and indicated it was very nasty like everybody else). It has only been in March where locally (or anywhere... I live in CO and my daughter in AZ) people have suddenly ended up critical on ventilators and people dying from it.  My point is, I strongly believe the really bad crud that many had throughout the winter, as bad as it was, (I had never been that sick from cold or flu) was obviously not COVID-19.

[Russ Maughan]

Thank you. Good possibility we had the same thing. My congestion was worse laying on my back. If I rolled onto my chest, a few good coughs and I could breath easily. (for the first 2 weeks, did get a little worse with the exhaustion). In that post this young doctor (if he is) mentions 100% fast recovery by treating hemoglobin iron issues. I'm not a biochemist and it was awhile ago, but I think he is sincere and it is a worthy line of research that will not pull people off other research.

 

It is hard to speak to the lung damage not being a chemist myself but if "he" is correct then it is just a symptom no different than the headaches and treating that of course does nothing to cure the virus/disease. Wish I could be more helpful. This is the first time I've posted on here in years. Usually just spy on advances in rejuvenation in case I quit smoking and begin trials

 

Good luck

[resveratrol_guy]

Here's a good discussion of the compelling science around ivermectin, the antiparasitic, starting at 3:21. Also includes other COVID19 updates. Seems like a good option to offer to severe patients.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=qc6VV7ue4cE

[resveratrol_guy]

Pluristem's PLX cell technology is looking good with severe patients. Patients on ventilators seem to have about 50/50 survival odds, so even small sample sets can rapidly amount to tiny P values. This of course translates to the opportunity to do faster science.

 

https://www.pluriste...FOR-RELEASE.pdf

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 09 April 2020 - 06:56 AM.

[resveratrol_guy]

Liberal: Have you ever heard any professional scientist back up your claims?

[No. And I haven't heard many of them risking their careers to report novel data that hasn't already been reviewed for months, either.]

Conservative: Drink this! It's the cure, folks! Everything else is fake news printed by the Deep State in cahoots with the UN!

[Desperately ill liberal drinks it, and it just happens to work.]

Sometimes, it's better to at least try the implications of weak statistics than to wait until after we're all dead. If the economic markets are any clue, those who act early on evolving information, from fuzzy clues all the way to solid conclusions, tend to outperform:

 

https://www.marketwa...come-2020-04-08

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 09 April 2020 - 07:18 AM.

[Oakman]

80% of NYC's coronavirus patients who are put on ventilators ultimately die

https://www.business...ath-rate-2020-4

 

Not a good statistic on survival of one of the most used 'therapies' for COVID-19.

[Hebbeh]

Only the most critical patients who are already dying are put on ventilators so what would the death rate of those patients be without the ventilator treatment to keep them alive long enough to give them a chance?  100%?

[Mind]

Russ Maughan,

 

Good post for the layman.

 

So outside a clinical environment- and for those who want to prevent it coming to their door,what supps would you recommend?

 

Here is a long discussion about possible supplements. A lot of ideas.

[Mind]

Only the most critical patients who are already dying are put on ventilators so what would the death rate of those patients be without the ventilator treatment to keep them alive long enough to give them a chance?  100%?

 

There might be better ways to oxygenate the blood. There is one story floating around about ozone treatment for blood.

 

https://www.livescie...s-patients.html

[Hebbeh]

There might be better ways to oxygenate the blood. There is one story floating around about ozone treatment for blood.

 

https://www.livescie...s-patients.html

 

I agree the ozone treatment looks far superior in many respects to simply ventilating but the problem will likely be the amount of time required by medical personnel to repeatedly administer the ozone treatments in an already overwhelmed critical care facility (ie New York) than simply intubating on a vent and moving on to the next patient being wheeled through the door.  As this virus grabs hold, in many places there simply isn't enough critical care professionals to provide the amount of care required.  And that is why in places like Italy and China (among others), they are/were practicing triage and only treating the most likely to survive because they simply couldn't save them all as not enough doctors, nurses, and beds.  In Italy, they were sending the elderly home to die and none of the at home deaths were included in the COVID-19 death toll....only COVID-19 deaths occurring in the critical care facility were considered and reported as deaths due to COVID-19 as there was no way for them to track deaths outside the medical community.

[Mr Spock]

Here is a long discussion about possible supplements. A lot of ideas.

 

 

Thanks Mind

 

I should have looked around first.

 

Dr Mecola is touting hydrogen peroxide as a therapy:

 

https://articles.mer...de-therapy.aspx

 

No critical analysis as usual though.

[Florin]

The guys that used DRACO to kill the PRRSV virus in vitro now want to do the same thing in vivo with piglets by crowdfunding $150k. I don't know if this is legit, and they're going to use a pig farm instead of a lab (probably to save money).

 

DRACO inhibits porcine reproductive and respiratory syndrome virus replication in vitro.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/25772577

 

Covid19: We are almost there, A Perfect Cure for Everyone!

https://gogetfunding...e-for-everyone/

[resveratrol_guy]

The guys that used DRACO to kill the PRRSV virus in vitro now want to do the same thing in vivo with piglets by crowdfunding $150k. I don't know if this is legit, and they're going to use a pig farm instead of a lab (probably to save money).

 

Well it's about time! I even made a short URL so it's easier for everyone to share:

https://tinyurl.com/rrmya34

I endorse this campaign, which says a lot because I think a pig study is the wrong way to go, and any science out of China is bound to be received with suspicion. I would prefer to see it offered directly to critical patients, but I also realize that we need to do anything possible to push DRACO forward, with or without Dr. Rider's direct involvement. It might not save us now, but it may well do so later.

They clearly lack marketing talent. Maybe someone (Mind?) can get Clement Tham on a podcast. If, as I suspect, the team is legit, then that would also provide the public with a chance to authenticate their true intentions.
 

[resveratrol_guy]

Also, why not try blood substitutes for hypoxic patients?

[Mind]

Also, why not try blood substitutes for hypoxic patients?

 

There seem to be many ways to oxygenate blood. Why not try them out. The whole "build a million ventilators" effort seems to have cost a lot of lives.

[Mind]

I tried to drive masses of people to think about innovative solutions to find treatments, save people, and bring a quick end to this pandemic. That is what sparked this thread.

 

Unfortunately, my video series was forced to end due to complaints - by people who think quarantine now, quarantine for months, quarantine for years, is the only solution.

 

Now that mass famine is becoming more likely, destabilization of oil-producing countries is more likely, a world-wide economic depression is more likely, I feel I have mostly failed.

 

I solute everyone in this thread and other threads who have put on their thinking cap, and discussed positive and creative ways to end the pandemic. It is a great thing to see.

 

With most of the world remaining substantially closed for the next couple weeks to months, I am not too optimistic society can recover in a meaningful way to rescue the (normally ample) food supply or prevent disruptive political instability.

[BlueCloud]

With most of the world remaining substantially closed for the next couple weeks to months, I am not too optimistic society can recover in a meaningful way to rescue the (normally ample) food supply or prevent disruptive political instability.

I don’t think it’s going to be as apocalyptic though. Most countries in Europe have already started going back to business, and those that have various lockdowns and confinements are restarting work in May. Most of Asia never really halted completely. I haven’t seen any shortage of food in supermarkets so far here, a couple of brands missing here and then, but nothing catastrophic. Politics are still as stable or unstable as they were before the epidemic. There are really no signs that a mass famine is about to happen, but you can expect the prices for some fresh vegetables to go slightly higher. I’ve noticed that in a few supermarkets. 
International travel may not resume until this summer , but merchandise transport has never stopped.

in fact , I’m shocked at how  resilient the world systems seem to be so far, and I’m usually quite the pessimist. 

 

The biggest challenge so far seems to be the upcoming difficulty with combining the various social distancing measures ( from one to 2 meters between individuals, depending on the countries) and the constant use of masks, with business and commerce practice. Most offices will adapt just fine, but many businesses will have tough time. Restaurants are already being asked to find a way to keep empty tables between clients when they’ll re-open, and that means they will lose half the revenues with those empty tables. Same for theaters, etc.. It’s pretty sure these measures are going to remain in effect until 2021.

 

we are going into a new serious recession for sure. But not a Mad Max / Walking Dead scenario just yet. Humanity has swiftly recovered from far worse than this epidemic. 2 world wars that killed millions and completely wiped out entire countries, and we’re still here, and those countries have completely rebuilt in less than a decade and are stronger than ever ( germany, japan, france , england, etc..)

Edited by BlueCloud, 24 April 2020 - 11:04 PM.

[Hip]

There seem to be many ways to oxygenate blood. Why not try them out. The whole "build a million ventilators" effort seems to have cost a lot of lives.

 

Ventilators may not have been the best idea: they are important for treating lung failure in influenza (and that's why they were thought useful for COVID-19), but in influenza it's the muscles of the lungs which can no longer function, ie the patient cannot breathe in and out, so ventilators are effective for influenza.

 

Whereas with COVID-19 the muscles are fine, and the patient is able to breathe in and out, but it's the build-up of fluid in the air sacs of the lungs which is the issue. The patient cannot get air into these air sacs, so suffocates to death.

 

Ventilators may also damage the lungs of COVID-19 patients, it has been reported. But it's quite possible they still save some lives.

 

 

In China doctors saved one coronavirus patient by hooking him up to an artificial lung machine called a ECMO (extracorporeal membrane oxygenation). See here. 

 

And the WHO has recommended the use of ECMOs for coronavirus.

 

But in the UK there are only 15 beds with ECMO facilities.

 

And in the US, only 261. Furthermore:

ECMO programs also require a team of highly trained professionals that are able to operate the equipment and be on-call for 24 hours, both of which are resources that the current healthcare system will not be able to provide.

Edited by Hip, 25 April 2020 - 12:10 AM.

[Florin]

Why is Belgium's COVID-19 death rate the worst in the world?

 

https://ourworldinda...ion?country=BEL

Edited by Florin, 25 April 2020 - 02:30 AM.

[pamojja]

Why is Belgium's COVID-19 death rate the worst in the world?

 

I think higher mortality rate is multifactoral. One factor clearly showing again and again is polution. I one compares for example with this satelite picture of the average NO2 pollution during the last 3 years:

 

Pollution in itself leads to higher co-morbitities

[xEva]

Why is Belgium's COVID-19 death rate the worst in the world?

 

https://ourworldinda...ion?country=BEL

 

I too was mystified by their numbers. Sounds like they responded rather late and then this:

 

On 10 April, about 40% of all COVID-19 deaths in Belgium occurred in care homes.[151][152] In Brussels, coronavirus cases have been confirmed in 116 of the 146 care homes.

 

this too could be the factor:

 

On 25 March 2020, Belgium ranked 6th in the list of EU countries with the highest amounts of casualties, while on 1 April Belgium had the third highest death toll after Italy and Spain. As of 3 April the case fatality rate of the COVID-19 disease is in Belgium similar to the neighbouring countries The Netherlands and France but much higher than in Germany. However, not all countries count the deaths in the same way.[213][214] Belgium counts deaths occurring both in hospitals and elsewhere, like in care homes. Deaths with clinical symptoms of the coronavirus disease are considered as "suspicious" and are included in the figures of COVID-19 deaths, even if they were not tested

 

https://en.wikipedia...emic_in_Belgium

[Mind]

Most of the deaths in the U.S. and the highest concentration of deaths (Washington, New York, Louisiana) have been in elderly care facilities as well.

[Florin]

Crazy-idea-of-the-day: use sunlight (or equivalent) to kill the coronavirus by inserting a fiber optic cable into the lungs.

 

Also: high temps don't reduce the transmission of COVID-19.

 

https://www.consumer...covid/#sunlight