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coronavirus covid-19 action cure solution

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#61 Florin

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Posted 05 April 2020 - 12:21 AM

If birinapant caused nerve damage it's safety is questionable. Can you cite the birinapant study in mice? Aside from Hep B I've seen nothing to indicate it or APG-1387 would be effective in other viral infections. I've seen nothing to suggest DRACO should not be funded to the next stage.

 

But birinapant was used in other trials (at least the ones with available results) with little apparent nerve damage.

 

The mice studies were cited at the link I provided earlier. Here it is again:

 

https://www.wehi.edu...ure-hepatitis-b

 

APG-1387 is similar to birinapant (it's a cIAPs antagonist), and that's why it might also have similar board antiviral effects.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC6235761/



#62 BioHacker=Life

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Posted 05 April 2020 - 12:22 AM

We don't really know what's going on with PVP. PVP could be a generic/newly-created term and you might need to contact the PI for more info.

 

Regarding #4, "P9 protected mice against lethal challenge of H1N1 virus." No ongoing research? No one makes it? Are you sure?

 

Have you looked for other similar stuff?

 

I've seen no developments with PVP. Which drug company is doing research on it?

 

P9 in that one study published in 2016 did show prevention against virus infections but not tested as a cure. I've seen no research since. Perhaps you are aware of a newer study?



#63 BioHacker=Life

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Posted 05 April 2020 - 12:28 AM

But birinapant was used in other trials (at least the ones with available results) with little apparent nerve damage.

 

The mice studies were cited at the link I provided earlier. Here it is again:

 

https://www.wehi.edu...ure-hepatitis-b

 

APG-1387 is similar to birinapant (it's a cIAPs antagonist), and that's why it might also have similar board antiviral effects.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC6235761/

 

In one of the human studies it caused Bell's palsy aka facial nerve damage in some patients. Nerve damage is a pretty serious side effect. I would have to review the others to determine how prevalent it is but if it was enough to stop the Hep C study it seems a concern.

 

In your first link it states

 

Birinapant enhances the ability of entecavir, an antiviral nucleoside analog, to reduce viral DNA production in HBV-infected animals. 

 

 

What was the cure rate if any?



#64 Florin

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Posted 05 April 2020 - 12:34 AM

https://clinicaltria...how/NCT03585322 looks like 2 years later there's still no results from APG-1387's study. I wonder why. 

 

Because the study ended just two months ago.

 

The bottom line is that there's probably tons of stuff that is similar to DRACO out there, and so, you might want to do a little more careful digging.


Edited by Florin, 05 April 2020 - 12:47 AM.


#65 Hip

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Posted 05 April 2020 - 02:22 AM

there's probably tons of stuff that is similar to DRACO out there, and so, you might want to do a little more careful digging.

 

There's nothing at all like DRACO out there, to my knowledge. For about 15 years, I've suffered from a disease called ME/CFS which is usually triggered by a viral infection, and some believe is caused by this triggering viral infection becoming chronic and persistent in the body tissues and brain. Consequently I've spent the last decade and a half looking at antiviral substances, including stuff in the research pipeline.

 

Unlike antibiotics which are typically broad-spectrum in the bacteria they kill, antivirals tend to be very specific to the particular virus they were designed for. A HIV drug for example will not work for influenzavirus, and vice versa.

 

But DRACO is unique, being a universal antiviral which should work for nearly all viruses (but it does not work for negative ssRNA viruses).

 

 

 

What most people do not realize is that most chronic diseases are linked to ongoing low-level infection with viruses or other pathogens. For example, type 1 diabetes is linked to coxsackievirus B infection of the insulin-producing cells of the pancreas. Alzheimer's is linked to herpes simplex virus infection of the brain. And there are hundreds of similar examples.

 

So a really effective universal antiviral could in principle cure many chronic diseases.


Edited by Hip, 05 April 2020 - 02:23 AM.

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#66 Florin

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Posted 05 April 2020 - 03:44 AM

There's nothing at all like DRACO out there, to my knowledge.

 

Sure there is.

 

https://www.longecit...ndpost&p=888504



#67 resveratrol_guy

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Posted 05 April 2020 - 12:22 PM

* Mind, the problem isn't that we don't realize we have these fantastic modern analytical capabilities. It's that, after thousands of years, we need to replace "Do no harm" with "Offer all effective options to informed patients". It sounds trivial but this rigid risk aversion seems to pervade the entire medical system from top to bottom. The Hippocratic oath would literally have prevented us from utilizing fire.

* BioHacker=Life, thanks for the details regarding DRACO vs. competitive therapies. I hope your petition gets somewhere. At the very least, Dr. Rider needs to make his position clear. If you tweet directly at Musk, you might get a reply. Remember he has about 3 milliseconds of free time to read your post, so keep it succinct and remember that's he's already involved in this crisis (at the ventilator end, way downstream of the optimal window of intervention).

* ledgf, the stromectol or Ivermectin angle is intersting, even though it was only in vitro. (I believe there are 2 separate posts about this.) A friend of mine separately told me about this approach, and said that he takes a dose every few months just to preempt any asymptomatic gut parasite infection that he might have acquired (tape worms being the most ghastly example). In the greater scheme of things, it sounds like a pharmacologically well-understood drug that needs to find its way to at-risk patients ASAP.

* Florin, thanks for pointing us to nanoparticles and other antiviral technologies. As to no one being interested in DRACO, that's an unfortunate side effect of an inventor who continues to advertise his technology but refuses to answer public inquiries with so much as a "no comment as of yet". It's not a reason to give up. It's a reason to compel him to speak up and quit being a man-child. And just because there may be a similar technology out there does not mean that we should just give up on getting any answers. It just means that we should investigate those alteratives as well (not that you said otherwise, but I think it's important to emphasize, considering that we have very little in the arsenal at the moment).
 


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#68 Hip

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Posted 05 April 2020 - 12:51 PM

 

Interesting though they are, none of the examples in your post look truly broad-spectrum. Being able to target half a dozen viruses of a similar type is not particularly broad.

 

There are over 200 different viral species known to infect humans, and if we take the different viral subtypes of these species, the number is much higher. Not to mention thousands of animal viruses of veterinary significance. 

 

There's no antiviral I have come across that will work for most of these. But DRACO will.

 

 

DRACO is based on the fact that most viruses generate double-stranded RNA (dsRNA) inside the host cell when they replicate. This dsRNA is thus the Achilles heal of a virus, because it signals the location of every virally-infected cell (dsRNA is not normally found in the human body, so when you see it, you know that it's due to a virus),

 

DRACO targets that dsRNA, and in this way can seek out virally-infected cells and destroy them. This is an extremely broad-spectrum approach.

 

Imagine if every criminal in the world always wore a distinctive red uniform whenever they were committing a felony: then the job of the police to find criminals would be very easy. Well, for viruses, the dsRNA is like a distinctive uniform that indicates a virus has broken into a cell.


Edited by Hip, 05 April 2020 - 01:10 PM.

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#69 Oakman

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Posted 05 April 2020 - 01:00 PM

A trial drug called APN01 (human recombinant soluble angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 – hrsACE2) could hold the promise of a Covid-19 treatment as new study led by University of British Columbia researcher Dr. Josef Penninger has show that hrsACE2 can effectively block the cellular door SARS-CoV-2 uses to infect its hosts.

The study has shown that hrsACE2 inhibited the coronavirus load by a factor of 1,000-5,000. In engineered replicas of human blood vessel and kidneys — organoids grown from human stem cells — the researchers demonstrated that the virus can directly infect and duplicate itself in these tissues.

This provides important information on the development of the disease and the fact that severe cases of COVID-19 present with multi-organ failure and evidence of cardiovascular damage. Clinical grade hrsACE2 also reduced the SARS-CoV-2 infection in these engineered human tissues.

 

https://www.bccourie...-shows-promise/



#70 Florin

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Posted 05 April 2020 - 08:39 PM

* Florin, thanks for pointing us to nanoparticles and other antiviral technologies. As to no one being interested in DRACO, that's an unfortunate side effect of an inventor who continues to advertise his technology but refuses to answer public inquiries with so much as a "no comment as of yet". It's not a reason to give up. It's a reason to compel him to speak up and quit being a man-child. And just because there may be a similar technology out there does not mean that we should just give up on getting any answers. It just means that we should investigate those alteratives as well (not that you said otherwise, but I think it's important to emphasize, considering that we have very little in the arsenal at the moment).

 

Well, the weirdest thing about DRACO for me isn't that Rider is silent about it but rather that there didn't seem to be much interest in it from the start. Virologists didn't seem all that interested. The crowdfunding campaigns failed. And no one from the HIV community or infection disease charities got involved either. You'd think that if there was anything to DRACO everyone and their mother would be all over it. And how about now? Are the Chinese going to abduct Rider and get him to produce DRACOs for them? But on the other hand, perhaps most people are dumb most of the time or at least when it matters most just like with the mask thing.


Edited by Florin, 05 April 2020 - 08:43 PM.

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#71 Florin

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Posted 05 April 2020 - 11:11 PM

Interesting though they are, none of the examples in your post look truly broad-spectrum. Being able to target half a dozen viruses of a similar type is not particularly broad.

 

There are over 200 different viral species known to infect humans, and if we take the different viral subtypes of these species, the number is much higher. Not to mention thousands of animal viruses of veterinary significance. 

 

There's no antiviral I have come across that will work for most of these. But DRACO will.

 

But will it really? DRACO hasn't been tested on SARS-CoV even in vitro but the semi-broad-spectrum antiviral IFITM has been. And DRACO might not be effective for HIV (even though Rider claims that it should be) but the potentially broad-spectrum antiviral birinapant might be effective.

 

So: behold—I give you the IFITM+birinapant broad-spectrum-universal-antiviral-silver-bullet-miracle-cure thingy (which may or may not be even better than DRACO)!

 

And if that's not enough, here's more:

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4440912/


Edited by Florin, 05 April 2020 - 11:34 PM.


#72 Hip

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Posted 06 April 2020 - 12:02 AM

But will it really? DRACO hasn't been tested on SARS-CoV even in vitro but the semi-broad-spectrum antiviral IFITM has been. And DRACO might not be effective for HIV (even though Rider claims that it should be) but the potentially broad-spectrum antiviral birinapant might be effective.

 

So: behold—I give you the IFITM+birinapant broad-spectrum-universal-antiviral-silver-bullet-miracle-cure thingy (which may or may not be even better than DRACO)!

 

And if that's not enough, here's more:

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4440912/

 

Interesting Reddit thread by Dr Todd Rider. 

 

DRACO is still a decade or more away from being a licensed antiviral, so it's not going to save us from coronavirus.

 

But this coronavirus pandemic should be a wake-up call for humanity, as this will not be the only nasty pandemic we are going to be hit with. It's been predicted that as a consequence of globalization, and man's increasing incursion into natural habitats (which puts us into more contact with animals, risking more cross-species transfer of viruses), we are going to be seeing more of these pandemics.

 

SARS-CoV-2 is a relatively benign virus, on the scale viral nastiness, as it's death rate is less than 1%. But the next one to hit us might have a death rate of 30%. Or more. That would be a real catastrophe.

 

So we need to start thinking in terms of pandemic insurance policies, and DRACO can play a role — if it pans out (because many drugs in the development stage turn out to have some flaw which makes them ultimately non-viable). But we need to pump money into ideas like DRACO in order to try to massively ramp up our antiviral defenses. 

 

If after this pandemic humanity just falls back into its usual activities, without learning an important lesson and making plans to prevent a repeat of this, then we can consider ourselves to be a particularly stupid species. 

 

 

 

Regarding IFITM proteins: I don't think these proteins are being developed as an antiviral drug as such. They are antiviral proteins generated inside the cell in response to interferon. Interferon therapy for viral infections has been around some time. Interferon was tried for SARS, but I don't think it helped much. 


Edited by Hip, 06 April 2020 - 12:03 AM.


#73 Florin

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Posted 06 April 2020 - 03:45 AM

DRACO is still a decade or more away from being a licensed antiviral, so it's not going to save us from coronavirus.

 

 

Regarding IFITM proteins: I don't think these proteins are being developed as an antiviral drug as such. They are antiviral proteins generated inside the cell in response to interferon. Interferon therapy for viral infections has been around some time. Interferon was tried for SARS, but I don't think it helped much. 

 

But DRACO was presented as a possible cure for this pandemic. And since everyone is in emergency-mode, it might actually have a better a chance of being tried out. What I found a bit questionable was the sole focus on DRACO that some of the commenters had. Perhaps this is a good strategy for some (a "you have to pick your battles" sort of thing) but to exclude similar approaches for the wrong reasons is dangerous.

 

The review paper from 2015 seemed to think that the IFITM stuff was promising. And if IFITM doesn't do the trick, there might be some other broad-spectrum antiviral out there that does. From the previous comments, I'm fairly confident that no one here has done any careful or extensive review of broad-spectrum antivirals (not even of DRACO it seems).


Edited by Florin, 06 April 2020 - 03:46 AM.


#74 resveratrol_guy

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Posted 06 April 2020 - 11:13 AM

Florin, the DRACO crowdfunding campaign a few years ago was remarkably successful, raising on the order of $50K, which is half of what he was asking for. This is 2 orders of magnitude higher than the level raised by most crowdfunding campaigns in general. Too bad it wasn't enough for his proposed experiment.

 

And of course virologists weren't interested. People want the limelight to themselves. (I'm sure Dr. Rider himself is no exception.)

 

The HIV charities, like most health charities, are interested in proven therapies and human trials. They don't generally invest in early stage rat studies. It might, as you said, be completely ineffective with HIV. That's fine with me if it kills most other virusses afflicting us.

 

If IFITM is even better, then that's great. Thanks for sharing it. It's not like we want to focus on a single candidate at the exclusion of all others. We just shouldn't give up on any particular strategy without a quantitative reason to do so. And yeah, your mask example is spot on: people are lazy and stubborn, even when there are obvious and safe ways to enhance personal health.

 

To be clear, I don't think DRACO is going to be a cure for this pandemic, but I do think it should be pushed into the trial pipeline as fast and wide as possible, available to risk-informed patients. If I were on a ventilator (poor survival rate) with high viral load, I would take it.

I completely agree that we need to keep the field open to solutions. But we actually have to try them at some point.

 



#75 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 06 April 2020 - 01:53 PM

 

 

DRACO has a unique strategy of marking and destroying cells with active viral infections.  There are certainly other antiviral therapies out there, but I have not seem a therapy that uses DRACOs unique approach.  If you know of a specific therapy that is similar I'd love to hear about it.


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#76 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 06 April 2020 - 02:01 PM

Florin, the DRACO crowdfunding campaign a few years ago was remarkably successful, raising on the order of $50K, which is half of what he was asking for. This is 2 orders of magnitude higher than the level raised by most crowdfunding campaigns in general. Too bad it wasn't enough for his proposed experiment.

 

 

 

$50k is a pretty successful crowdfunding campaign, but that's a drop in the bucket compared to the costs of funding trials and getting the therapy through regulatory approval of an agency like the FDA.  $500M would be a good start, but not enough to take it all the way to approval.

 

If I recall, $50k wasn't even enough to get Todd Rider back to working on it.

 

$50k probably pays for a couple of weeks of effort to get approval for a new drug unfortunately.  The cost of regulation has grown enormously and mainly serves an entry barrier to smaller more nimble drug companies.  You'll notice that you don't hear the big pharma companies complaining about these costs.  They are just fine with them as they erect a wall around their industry when it comes to new competition.



#77 resveratrol_guy

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Posted 06 April 2020 - 03:12 PM

I've spent a lot of time recently watching interviews with doctors on the front lines of COVID19. I've found a couple common threads that come up consistently, apart from the obvious horrific toll that the disease is taking on everyone:

* There are many reports of patients who have worrisome chest xrays, but are hospitalized without the need for a ventilator. Then suddenly, often within a day, they end up dead.

This is not the typical progression, even of ICU patients who may hang on for several days or even a few weeks on a ventilator, before remitting or dying. It's a different phenomenon which at least one doctor attributed to a cyotkine storm. I can't think of any better explanation, even though I'm surprised to see that it appears to occur in seniors as well as young people.

I have yet to find any mention of rapalogs being administered to such patients. Incredibly, a mouse study was done in 2018 which resulted in total survival 15 days after infection, as opposed to 40% with buffer solution. It involved influenza, but a similar approach may work for COVID19.0

The key was to combine rapamycin (sirolimus, in this case) with oseltamivir (the antiflu drug, which should perhaps be replaced with remdesivir in this case) -- not up front, but rather, 2 days after infection. (Of course the timing would be different with human cases of COVID19, which some doctors are already treating, in part, with oseltamivir.) It seems clear that we don't want to blunt the initial immune signaling that rallies the macrophages to attack the virus, so it's necessary to hold off on the drugs until the virus is established and a cyotkine storm is threatening to occur. Curiously, this includes the antiviral as well (oseltamivir).

This concept needs to get to the front lines, desperate as they are for logical approaches to try.

https://journals.plo...al.ppat.1007428

There was an earlier study in 2017, which featured different drug timing. The paper mentions that "Reported success with Rapamycin in humans prompted a comprehensive animal study and mechanistic dissection," so human use has already been attempted. Nevertheless, in their mouse study, the drug was found to exacerabate influenze, probably because it dampened the inital immune response, wasting critical intervention time:

https://www.nature.c...598-017-04365-6

It's probably much more about assessing proximity to criticality (for example, by xray findings or ventilator pressure settings), than any fixed number of days.

* Secondly, bacterial pneumonia comes up repeatedly as a cause of complications in COVID19 patients.

Such infections can be eliminated before they get a chance to progress, merely by administering a vaccine such as 13-valent Prevenar or 23-valent Pneumovax. The problem is that, in some medical systems, they are only allowed to be given to seniors or immunocompromised people such as HIV patients. But COVID19 can overwhelm the immune system to the point where pneumonia is free to infiltrate the lungs. Surely, eliminating this risk can only lower the death rate. I'm not exactly a cheerleader for the vaccine industry, and they aren't without side effects, but it seems like a good time to look into getting a jab. Please note that 23-valent isn't necessarily superior because it could create a smaller reaction to each antigen than the components of the 13-valent option, and those 13 components are disproportionately common in the wild. There are also different age restrictions on each vaccine, depending on your jurisdiction. Ideally, one would have them injected in a drug store or supermarket, away from potentially infected doctor's offices or hospitals. Also, if you do vaccinate, read the package insert so you don't mistake an unremarkable vaccine fever for a real infection (or worse, end up experiencing both simultaneously). Beware, too, that if you intend to take BCG vaccine based on the theory that it thwarts COVID19 (which might well be wrong, but it's still a great time to do everything possible to avoid getting ill), there may be time window constraints on when you can do which, or immune constraints on your ability to "learn" from the antigens if too many are delivered all at once. And finally, consider preloading with dark chocolate, lipidated curcumin, or some form of C60 to bind up any mercury that might be liberated from the thiomersol preservative, if it happens to be present. Tread carefully, but do consider taking these preemptive actions.
 


Edited by resveratrol_guy, 06 April 2020 - 03:15 PM.

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#78 resveratrol_guy

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Posted 06 April 2020 - 03:20 PM

$50k is a pretty successful crowdfunding campaign, but that's a drop in the bucket compared to the costs of funding trials and getting the therapy through regulatory approval of an agency like the FDA.  $500M would be a good start, but not enough to take it all the way to approval.

 

If I recall, $50k wasn't even enough to get Todd Rider back to working on it.

 

$50k probably pays for a couple of weeks of effort to get approval for a new drug unfortunately.  The cost of regulation has grown enormously and mainly serves an entry barrier to smaller more nimble drug companies.  You'll notice that you don't hear the big pharma companies complaining about these costs.  They are just fine with them as they erect a wall around their industry when it comes to new competition.

 

He wanted $100K for a lab setup required to test some additional virusses.

 

Human trials weren't even on his radar at the time. But now, that should at least have crossed his mind, especially in light of a more liberal FDA in emergency mode. Hopefully he'll think twice before hitting the delete key next time he receives an inquiry.

 



#79 Florin

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Posted 06 April 2020 - 11:06 PM

DRACO crowdfunding: Everyone's wrong—$100,205 was actually raised. Strangely, there was an appeal for $2 million but only the $100k goal was talked about at Indiegogo. The $100k was supposedly being put to use for DRACO research, but a few months later, Rider stopped communicating. Looks bad.

 

https://www.indiegog...t-all-viruses#/
https://www.indiegog...cience-health#/
https://www.prnewswi...-300266643.html
https://web.archive.....org/blogs/news
https://www.facebook...094069990678212

 

Virologists: Most of them are probably doing their own thing and some didn't even seems to know about DRACO. And maybe they're too cynical. Still, there should be at least some that would trumpet DRACO as a potential game-changer.

 

HIV charities: If charities wouldn't by interested, what about anyone else in the HIV community? They've had a long history of successfully pushing for treatments. But maybe they doubt that DRACO would be effective for HIV.

 

DRACO's unique strategy: It might not work for HIV or latent viruses like HSV. And how many other "exceptions" exist that no one knows about yet? Its "unique strategy" might not be all it's cracked up to be. And if DRACO continues to go nowhere, what then? The only other option is to look for something else. There are plenty of promising BSAs out there.

 

https://www.reddit.c...cure_all_viral/

 

DRACO/pandemic: DPA. DRACO. Done.

 

https://en.wikipedia...ical_innovation



#80 resveratrol_guy

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Posted 07 April 2020 - 04:55 AM

Florin, I applaud your appreciation for nuance. It's in rare supply these days, as much in medical circles as politics.

 

I watched the fundraiser and it most definitely failed, well short of $100K. I suspect that the final number which you reported was achieved during a later extension, which I failed to notice. In any event, if true, then rat studies should have taken place.

 

I think the simplest explanation for Rider's silence is regulatory and/or legal confrontations. He had already proven the technology effective in some rat infections, so even if other tests had failed, he still would have had a promising pipeline. If it were a total dead end, he wouldn't be further embarrassing himself by continuing to expose the technology on his website for all to see.

 

Try everything promising. Provide risk information to patients and respect their choices of care, especially when they themselves are paying for it.



#81 resveratrol_guy

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Posted 07 April 2020 - 05:36 AM

Zelenko has been essentially vindicated by another clinician. No sample size numbers yet, but this at least seems to refute the hypothesis that he's just making stuff up.

 

Kudos to Florin for being first to circulate this news.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=8OKZbrk8Y7Q

 

If you like it, then "like" the video and push it into virality. Force the FDA, CDC, NHS, etc. to take note and stop spouting moot babble like "HCQ doesn't work." Well no kidding. Do your damn homework and learn about the other components of the promising HCQ protocols. There is no excuse for an unwillingness to investigate solutions which crowdsourcing has already unearthed, fruitless though many of them may be. Lazy health officials with tunnel vision need to be fired, whatever the outcome in this particular case.


Edited by resveratrol_guy, 07 April 2020 - 05:49 AM.

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#82 resveratrol_guy

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Posted 07 April 2020 - 11:16 AM

Here's a recent hour-long interview of Dr. Vladimir Zelenko by Dr. Jerome Corsi and Dr. Karladine Graves. I find it interesting, speaking as a relatively apolitical rationalist, that this trio of rightwing religious individuals is espousing some unmistakeably socialist sentiments. But there's no time for politics. I'm strictly presenting this as a deeper dive into the protocol and his latest claimed statistics.

He has already been contacted by multiple governments to contribute to their national responses to the pandemic. I don't entirely agree with the advice which he has dispensed to them. For the record:

I do not agree with his assertion that prophylaxis with his HCQ protocol should offered to everyone. The side effects are too serious to justify that, and more importantly, we risk a repeat of the evolution of resistance that has occurred with malaria. We have to optimize for maximum survival, and I don't think such broad dissemination supports that goal. Moreover, if the treatment is so effective, then prophylaxis would seem to be unnecessary. In any event, a single HCQ pill per week seems like a particularly poor proposition, as it trains the virus by repeated exposure but leaves the body undefended almost all the time.

I do agree with making his full protocol available to individuals who are at high risk, proven positive, or exhibiting convincing symptoms of the virus.

Not that it matters what I think. Have a look and draw your own conclusions.

https://www.youtube....h?v=KlmAHSCRIns
 


Edited by resveratrol_guy, 07 April 2020 - 11:27 AM.

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#83 Florin

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Posted 07 April 2020 - 09:41 PM

I watched the fundraiser and it most definitely failed, well short of $100K. I suspect that the final number which you reported was achieved during a later extension, which I failed to notice. In any event, if true, then rat studies should have taken place.

 

I think the simplest explanation for Rider's silence is regulatory and/or legal confrontations. He had already proven the technology effective in some rat infections, so even if other tests had failed, he still would have had a promising pipeline. If it were a total dead end, he wouldn't be further embarrassing himself by continuing to expose the technology on his website for all to see.

 

$60,823$39,382 = $100,205

 

He did mention that the funding was being used buy supplies and equipment, but that was it. And he could have easily mentioned any problems he was having.


Edited by Florin, 07 April 2020 - 10:06 PM.


#84 xEva

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Posted 07 April 2020 - 10:12 PM

I do not agree with his assertion that prophylaxis with his HCQ protocol should offered to everyone. The side effects are too serious to justify that,

 

It is true that chloroquine has a narrow therapeutic index, but it is not true about hydroxychloroquine. It was pointed out many times that lupus and rheumatoid arthritis patients take it for years, as well as people who used to take it for malaria. Doctors who prescribe it regularly are dismayed that hydroxychloroquine is touted as 'dangerous'.
 
those who are worried about the lengthening QT interval could read this:
Causes and management of drug-induced long QT syndrome, 2010
(make sure you have adequate levels of potassium and also magnesium)



#85 resveratrol_guy

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Posted 08 April 2020 - 04:29 AM

 It is true that chloroquine has a narrow therapeutic index, but it is not true about hydroxychloroquine. It was pointed out many times that lupus and rheumatoid arthritis patients take it for years, as well as people who used to take it for malaria. Doctors who prescribe it regularly are dismayed that hydroxychloroquine is touted as 'dangerous'.
 
those who are worried about the lengthening QT interval could read this:
Causes and management of drug-induced long QT syndrome, 2010
(make sure you have adequate levels of potassium and also magnesium)

 

On second thought I probably agree with you. Unfortunately, resistance is still the main concern. We need to last a year before we have a vaccine (and that's baking in considerable optimism). Therefore prophylaxis seems unjustifiable, especially if it's as effective as it appears to be. Of course there's still some uncertainty around its efficacy which will only clear in time.
 


Edited by resveratrol_guy, 08 April 2020 - 04:31 AM.


#86 resveratrol_guy

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Posted 08 April 2020 - 04:34 AM

$60,823$39,382 = $100,205

 

He did mention that the funding was being used buy supplies and equipment, but that was it. And he could have easily mentioned any problems he was having.

 

Well, that adds up. And that's precisely why I think he's having trouble with some issue other than the technology. It would have been too easy to say that it only works for a subset of virusses, as previously demonstrated, but we think we can still pursue a product around them. It actually would have bolstered his credibility. But what do you do when you have an army of lawyers breathing down your neck? Perhaps you just shut up and hope it all goes away.
 



#87 Florin

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Posted 08 April 2020 - 06:28 AM

But what do you do when you have an army of lawyers breathing down your neck? Perhaps you just shut up and hope it all goes away.

 

No, you say, "I have an army of lawyers breathing down my neck!" Why the hell wouldn't you?


Edited by Florin, 08 April 2020 - 06:28 AM.

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#88 Russ Maughan

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Posted 08 April 2020 - 06:52 AM

See what ya think..I had this mess a few weeks ago. Sounds right to me.

https://medium.com/@...et-91182386efcb



#89 resveratrol_guy

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Posted 08 April 2020 - 01:08 PM

See what ya think..I had this mess a few weeks ago. Sounds right to me.

https://medium.com/@...et-91182386efcb

 

"410 account suspended". So what was this about?



#90 Russ Maughan

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Posted 08 April 2020 - 02:09 PM

Odd. Works from Facebook but I get same error from elsewhere. So, here is the post.

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Covid-19 had us all fooled, but now we might have finally found its secret.

In the last 3–5 days, a mountain of anecdotal evidence has come out of NYC, Italy, Spain, etc. about COVID-19 and characteristics of patients who get seriously ill. It’s not only piling up but now leading to a general field-level consensus backed up by a few previously little-known studies that we’ve had it all wrong the whole time. Well, a few had some things eerily correct (cough Trump cough), especially with Hydroxychloroquine with Azithromicin, but we’ll get to that in a minute.

There is no ‘pneumonia’ nor ARDS. At least not the ARDS with established treatment protocols and procedures we’re familiar with. Ventilators are not only the wrong solution, but high pressure intubation can actually wind up causing more damage than without, not to mention complications from tracheal scarring and ulcers given the duration of intubation often required… They may still have a use in the immediate future for patients too far to bring back with this newfound knowledge, but moving forward a new treatment protocol needs to be established so we stop treating patients for the wrong disease.

    The past 48 hours or so have seen a huge revelation: COVID-19 causes prolonged and progressive hypoxia (starving your body of oxygen) by binding to the heme groups in hemoglobin in your red blood cells. People are simply desaturating (losing o2 in their blood), and that’s what eventually leads to organ failures that kill them, not any form of ARDS or pneumonia. All the damage to the lungs you see in CT scans are from the release of oxidative iron from the hemes, this overwhelms the natural defenses against pulmonary oxidative stress and causes that nice, always-bilateral ground glass opacity in the lungs. Patients returning for re-hospitalization days or weeks after recovery suffering from apparent delayed post-hypoxic leukoencephalopathy strengthen the notion COVID-19 patients are suffering from hypoxia despite no signs of respiratory ‘tire out’ or fatigue.

Here’s the breakdown of the whole process, including some ELI5-level cliff notes. Much has been simplified just to keep it digestible and layman-friendly.

Your red blood cells carry oxygen from your lungs to all your organs and the rest of your body. Red blood cells can do this thanks to hemoglobin, which is a protein consisting of four “hemes”. Hemes have a special kind of iron ion, which is normally quite toxic in its free form, locked away in its center with a porphyrin acting as it’s ‘container’. In this way, the iron ion can be ‘caged’ and carried around safely by the hemoglobin, but used to bind to oxygen when it gets to your lungs.

When the red blood cell gets to the alveoli, or the little sacs in your lungs where all the gas exchange happens, that special little iron ion can flip between FE2+ and FE3+ states with electron exchange and bond to some oxygen, then it goes off on its little merry way to deliver o2 elsewhere.

Here’s where COVID-19 comes in. Its glycoproteins bond to the heme, and in doing so that special and toxic oxidative iron ion is “disassociated” (released). It’s basically let out of the cage and now freely roaming around on its own. This is bad for two reasons:

1) Without the iron ion, hemoglobin can no longer bind to oxygen. Once all the hemoglobin is impaired, the red blood cell is essentially turned into a Freightliner truck cab with no trailer and no ability to store its cargo.. it is useless and just running around with COVID-19 virus attached to its porphyrin. All these useless trucks running around not delivering oxygen is what starts to lead to desaturation, or watching the patient’s spo2 levels drop. It is INCORRECT to assume traditional ARDS and in doing so, you’re treating the WRONG DISEASE. Think of it a lot like carbon monoxide poisoning, in which CO is bound to the hemoglobin, making it unable to carry oxygen. In those cases, ventilators aren’t treating the root cause; the patient’s lungs aren’t ‘tiring out’, they’re pumping just fine. The red blood cells just can’t carry o2, end of story. Only in this case, unlike CO poisoning in which eventually the CO can break off, the affected hemoglobin is permanently stripped of its ability to carry o2 because it has lost its iron ion. The body compensates for this lack of o2 carrying capacity and deliveries by having your kidneys release hormones like erythropoietin, which tell your bone marrow factories to ramp up production on new red blood cells with freshly made and fully functioning hemoglobin. This is the reason you find elevated hemoglobin and decreased blood oxygen saturation as one of the 3 primary indicators of whether the shit is about to hit the fan for a particular patient or not.

2) That little iron ion, along with millions of its friends released from other hemes, are now floating through your blood freely. As I mentioned before, this type of iron ion is highly reactive and causes oxidative damage. It turns out that this happens to a limited extent naturally in our bodies and we have cleanup & defense mechanisms to keep the balance. The lungs, in particular, have 3 primary defenses to maintain “iron homeostasis”, 2 of which are in the alveoli, those little sacs in your lungs we talked about earlier. The first of the two are little macrophages that roam around and scavenge up any free radicals like this oxidative iron. The second is a lining on the walls (called the epithelial surface) which has a thin layer of fluid packed with high levels of antioxidant molecules.. things like abscorbic acid (AKA Vitamin C) among others. Well, this is usually good enough for naturally occurring rogue iron ions but with COVID-19 running rampant your body is now basically like a progressive state letting out all the prisoners out of the prisons… it’s just too much iron and it begins to overwhelm your lungs’ countermeasures, and thus begins the process of pulmonary oxidative stress. This leads to damage and inflammation, which leads to all that nasty stuff and damage you see in CT scans of COVID-19 patient lungs. Ever noticed how it’s always bilateral? (both lungs at the same time) Pneumonia rarely ever does that, but COVID-19 does… EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

— — — — — — — — — — — — -

Once your body is now running out of control, with all your oxygen trucks running around without any freight, and tons of this toxic form of iron floating around in your bloodstream, other defenses kick in. While your lungs are busy with all this oxidative stress they can’t handle, and your organs are being starved of o2 without their constant stream of deliveries from red blood cell’s hemoglobin, and your liver is attempting to do its best to remove the iron and store it in its ‘iron vault’. Only its getting overwhelmed too. It’s starved for oxygen and fighting a losing battle from all your hemoglobin letting its iron free, and starts crying out “help, I’m taking damage!” by releasing an enzyme called alanine aminotransferase (ALT). BOOM, there is your second of 3 primary indicators of whether the shit is about to hit the fan for a particular patient or not.

Eventually, if the patient’s immune system doesn’t fight off the virus in time before their blood oxygen saturation drops too low, ventilator or no ventilator, organs start shutting down. No fuel, no work. The only way to even try to keep them going is max oxygen, even a hyperbaric chamber if one is available on 100% oxygen at multiple atmospheres of pressure, just to give what’s left of their functioning hemoglobin a chance to carry enough o2 to the organs and keep them alive. Yeah we don’t have nearly enough of those chambers, so some fresh red blood cells with normal hemoglobin in the form of a transfusion will have to do.

The core point being, treating patients with the iron ions stripped from their hemoglobin (rendering it abnormally nonfunctional) with ventilator intubation is futile, unless you’re just hoping the patient’s immune system will work its magic in time. The root of the illness needs to be addressed.

Best case scenario? Treatment regimen early, before symptoms progress too far. Hydroxychloroquine (more on that in a minute, I promise) with Azithromicin has shown fantastic, albeit critics keep mentioning ‘anecdotal’ to describe the mountain, promise and I’ll explain why it does so well next. But forget straight-up plasma with antibodies, that might work early but if the patient is too far gone they’ll need more. They’ll need all the blood: antibodies and red blood cells. No help in sending over a detachment of ammunition to a soldier already unconscious and bleeding out on the battlefield, you need to send that ammo along with some hemoglobin-stimulant-magic so that he can wake up and fire those shots at the enemy.
The story with Hydroxychloroquine

All that hilariously misguided and counterproductive criticism the media piled on chloroquine (purely for political reasons) as a viable treatment will now go down as the biggest Fake News blunder to rule them all. The media actively engaged their activism to fight ‘bad orange man’ at the cost of thousands of lives. Shame on them.

How does chloroquine work? Same way as it does for malaria. You see, malaria is this little parasite that enters the red blood cells and starts eating hemoglobin as its food source. The reason chloroquine works for malaria is the same reason it works for COVID-19 — while not fully understood, it is suspected to bind to DNA and interfere with the ability to work magic on hemoglobin. The same mechanism that stops malaria from getting its hands on hemoglobin and gobbling it up seems to do the same to COVID-19 (essentially little snippets of DNA in an envelope) from binding to it. On top of that, Hydroxychloroquine (an advanced descendant of regular old chloroquine) lowers the pH which can interfere with the replication of the virus. Again, while the full details are not known, the entire premise of this potentially ‘game changing’ treatment is to prevent hemoglobin from being interfered with, whether due to malaria or COVID-19.

No longer can the media and armchair pseudo-physicians sit in their little ivory towers, proclaiming “DUR so stoopid, malaria is bacteria, COVID-19 is virus, anti-bacteria drug no work on virus!”. They never got the memo that a drug doesn’t need to directly act on the pathogen to be effective. Sometimes it’s enough just to stop it from doing what it does to hemoglobin, regardless of the means it uses to do so.

Anyway, enough of the rant. What’s the end result here? First, the ventilator emergency needs to be re-examined. If you’re putting a patient on a ventilator because they’re going into a coma and need mechanical breathing to stay alive, okay we get it. Give ’em time for their immune systems to pull through. But if they’re conscious, alert, compliant — keep them on O2. Max it if you have to. If you HAVE to inevitably ventilate, do it at low pressure but max O2. Don’t tear up their lungs with max PEEP, you’re doing more harm to the patient because you’re treating the wrong disease.

Ideally, some form of treatment needs to happen to:

    Inhibit viral growth and replication. Here plays CHQ+ZPAK+ZINC or other retroviral therapies being studies. Less virus, less hemoglobin losing its iron, less severity and damage.
    Therapies used for anyone with abnormal hemoglobin or malfunctioning red blood cells. Blood transfusions. Whatever, I don’t know the full breadth and scope because I’m not a physician. But think along those lines, and treat the real disease. If you’re thinking about giving them plasma with antibodies, maybe if they’re already in bad shape think again and give them BLOOD with antibodies, or at least blood followed by plasma with antibodies.
    Now that we know more about how this virus works and affects our bodies, a whole range of options should open up.
    Don’t trust China. China is ASSHOE. (disclaimer: not talking about the people, just talking about the regime). They covered this up and have caused all kinds of death and carnage, both literal and economic. The ripples of this pandemic will be felt for decades.

Fini.


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