236 replies to this topic

[QuestforLife]

Also another treated rat has died.
This is turning out to be pretty much like dr Goya's experiment. The rats are looking good and younger, but then they die pretty much at the same time.

Agree. I'm hoping we haven't wasted 2 years talking about E5.

[brian1965]

Couple things to note:
(1) this E5 study is primarily studying lifespan. If one or more of the treated rats (all female) breaks the known Sprague Dawley rat lifespan record (48 mos, I think?), this would be significant. They’re all currently at about 39 mos. Average lifespan is 30-42 mos.
(2) the original E5 study was done on male rats, where the measured results were more pronounced. This study is being done with female rats. Katcher theorizes that E5 is more effective on males, and is trying to determine possible reasons why.

[Mind]

Couple things to note:
(1) this E5 study is primarily studying lifespan. If one or more of the treated rats (all female) breaks the known Sprague Dawley rat lifespan record (48 mos, I think?), this would be significant. They’re all currently at about 39 mos. Average lifespan is 30-42 mos.
(2) the original E5 study was done on male rats, where the measured results were more pronounced. This study is being done with female rats. Katcher theorizes that E5 is more effective on males, and is trying to determine possible reasons why.

 

Interesting, Steve Perry speculates that GDF11 (which might be part of E5) also works better in males, which makes me think it affects mainly hormonal pathways. Growth hormone also improves many biomarkers and aspects of health (in mice and humans), but does not extend life (as far as I am aware).

 

Still, being healthy into old age is better than nothing.

Edited by Mind, 01 May 2022 - 07:00 PM.

[brian1965]

For those not on the E5/Yuvan mailing list, I thought you'd be interested in seeing this (pretty impressive) photo of the result of E5 being applied to an aged 78yo human hand.  Please note, this is E5 (plasma fraction) and not NEEL (the skin cream). 

 

 

“So, I rubbed a small sample of E5 on my right hand and after three days

the results were visible. The skin on the treated hand is visibly thicker and

lighter. Certainly not a definitive test, but wow, my hand looks decades

younger.”

 

- Dr. Harold Katcher

 

 

-----

 

Per Akshay (Dr. Katcher's business partner), this is the internal email that Dr. Katcher shared regarding the above on 2-May-2022:

 

Hi all,
I applied a little bit of an old freeze-dried prep – there’s no trick here Jay (how could there be), my right-hand looks 30 years younger,even my veins are narrower and less prominent, (I wonder if they’ve let go of their calcification) they also seem less visible because the skin appears thicker. Obviously, the experiment needs to be tried on many people, but I’m certain their reaction will be the same as mine. The interesting thing is, as you noted Jay that the E5 used was essentially just the precipitate, (so therefore crude), but if only for external use, it would not have to meet the same criteria for use as something used internally. I’m looking at my hands right now and am amazed, a real miracle. I suppose it will fade (as my blood contains pro-aging factors) – but surprisingly, we now have real evidence that E5 works on people. Yesterday Kavita said it doesn’t look like both hands could belong to the same person). I only applied a small bit to the upper surface of my right hand, nothing more. It was actually historic.
Best to all,
Harold

 

Edited by brian1965, 04 May 2022 - 01:22 PM.

[elfanjo]

For those not on the E5/Yuvan mailing list

 

Hey Brian, do you know how one can get on that list by any chance?

[brian1965]

See below:

Edited by brian1965, 24 May 2022 - 10:31 PM.

[brian1965]

Hey Brian, do you know how one can get on that list by any chance?

Here you go:

https://www.ntzplural.com/newsletter

Edited by brian1965, 24 May 2022 - 10:35 PM.

[RWhigham]

Akshay said on May 25 the E5 patent will be published in July.

[albedo]

Akshay said on May 25 the E5 patent will be published in July.

 

And here it is, in case you have missed it:

 

https://patentscope....-L5LBPB-39465-1
 

[QuestforLife]

And here it is, in case you have missed it:

https://patentscope....-L5LBPB-39465-1

Lol..That's it? Drum roll...young plasma...concentrated. They don't even know what it is. How is that a patent?

[albedo]

Sorry .. many of you must have seen this already, but just i case I re-post here Josh's fist assessment of the patent:

https://joshmitteldo...atchers-patent/

[brian1965]

Sorry .. many of you must have seen this already, but just i case I re-post here Josh's fist assessment of the patent:

https://joshmitteldo...atchers-patent/

 

I posted the following comment on Josh's blog yesterday, and thought I'd share it here too:

 

 

I just read the patent thoroughly, and personally, if I were an independent observer/scientist looking to replicate earlier E5 results, I think I’d be pretty pleased with the level of detail provided. I had two main take-aways from the patent:

First, the three tetraspanins — CD9, CD63 and CD81 — are called out and highlighted so often in the patent (see sections 23, 98, 108, 190 and 198, and also the Claims paper), that it seems likely that the inventors believe that these three, together or individually, play a primary role in the effectiveness of E5. Not sure if Akshay or Harold will ever comment on this now that the patent is out, but I’d be curious to hear their thoughts on this.

Second, the patent provides very specific instructions on how to make E5. Specifically, sections 191 through 199 describe in detail how to collect, process and prepare mammal/pig’s blood to produce E5, and sections 200 through 215 describe specifically how to administer it to rats for experimentation.

It would certainly take resources and time to do all of the above, but if I had lab access, funds and the inclination, I’d think it would now be pretty straightforward to replicate Harold’s E5 experiments, and see if similar results could be obtained.

So personally, I’m pretty pleased with the patent. Congratulations to Harold and Akshay for getting this first E5 patent written and published!

 

Akshay responded saying these were "accurate observations" among other things, so I guess that's a good sign!

[RWhigham]

Harold Katcher's E5 patent (US version),

53 pages -- the 1st 22 pages are figures, it gets interesting on page 23

 Harold KatcherPatent.pdf   5.6MB   23 downloads 

Edited by RWhigham, 03 August 2022 - 12:41 AM.

[Nicolas Chernavsky]

Hi, this is Nicolás Cherñavsky, from NTZ, a publisher specialized in books of the rejuvenation field. I would like to tell you that we just published 3 versions (in Spanish, Portuguese and Polish) of the book "The Illusion of Knowledge", by Harold Katcher, the scientist whose research is discussed in this topic. The original version in English was published one year ago. Nina (who runs NTZ with me) and I interviewed Dr. Katcher to mark the launch of the 3 versions. The link to the interview is . In case you know someone who could be interested in reading the book in one of these languages, the book can be found on Amazon and some other online bookstores.

[Daniel Cooper]

For those not on the E5/Yuvan mailing list, I thought you'd be interested in seeing this (pretty impressive) photo of the result of E5 being applied to an aged 78yo human hand.  Please note, this is E5 (plasma fraction) and not NEEL (the skin cream). 

 

 

“So, I rubbed a small sample of E5 on my right hand and after three days

the results were visible. The skin on the treated hand is visibly thicker and

lighter. Certainly not a definitive test, but wow, my hand looks decades

younger.”

 

- Dr. Harold Katcher

 

This is a pretty obvious way to make a comparison, but it's also one fraught with issues.

 

Let's say you're an American and you've spent a lifetime driving automobiles on the right hand side of the road. If you're of any relatively advanced age, if you take a good look in the mirror you'll notice that the left hand side of your body - particularly your face, arms and hands - is significantly more photo damaged than the right side of your body. Particularly if you're of an age where part of your driving career was before air conditioning was common and you spent summer months with your window down and your left arm on the door. Which Dr. Katcher is. Heck, I'm two decades younger than Katcher and I can clearly see that I've got more photo damage on my left than on my right.

 

Of course our British and Aussie friends will have the same issue on the other side.

 

You really can't do a left - right comparison like this because most of us don't have equally aged skin on our left versus our right.

 

You can do before/after pictures if you're very careful and use tightly controlled and repeatable lighting - but it is difficult to do even when you are trying to get a good representation of reality, and very easy to misrepresent if you're not.

 

 

[brian1965]

The final living rat in Dr. Katcher's E5 experiment has now lived for 47 months--apparently breaking the record of 45.5 months (from the scientific literature).  Intriguing...

 

https://www.theguard...-living-lab-rat

 

Anti-ageing scientists extend lifespan of oldest living lab rat

Research teases hopes that ‘rejuvenation of the body may become commonplace within our lifetimes’

 

Edited by brian1965, 09 February 2023 - 08:12 PM.

[brian1965]

Dr. Katcher also gave this interview just recently:  https://www.youtube....h?v=DpIbEluiN3o

[Harkijn]

The active ingredient in E5 turns out to be exosomes. Apparently you can inject old rats with exosomes of young pigs with very positive results.

On the 4th of september Josh Mitteldorf posted about this.

 

https://joshmitteldo...cienceblog.com/

[Daniel Cooper]

I've sort of lost track of this development.

 

Where is E5 relative to being on the market? 

[brian1965]

I've sort of lost track of this development.

Where is E5 relative to being on the market?

Not too much has been provided publicly, but it still seems a long ways off (“dog trials first then perhaps Part 1 safety trials in a year or two” for humans). Here are the most recent interviews with Katcher that I’m aware of:


Dr Katcher Interview, Sep 2023 (in 3 parts, “Modern Healthspan”):
https://youtube.com/...7mrtcQI0icAbc7v


Separately here:
https://m.youtube.co...h?v=PAX606_Esrs

https://m.youtube.co...index=2&pp=iAQB

https://m.youtube.co...index=3&pp=iAQB

Edited by brian1965, 19 January 2024 - 12:37 PM.

[brian1965]

I should add, though not related to trial dates, Akshay (co-investigator and CEO of Katcher’s company), had great contributions to a related article on Josh Mittledorf’s blog in Sep 2023 as well:

https://joshmitteldo...d-katchers-lab/

Edited by brian1965, 19 January 2024 - 01:30 PM.

[albedo]

I have no longer followed. I found this from Josh in one of his recent (2023) papers:

 

"5.3. Katcher's rats
The experiments of Harold Katcher (Horvath et al., 2020) deserve
special attention because they demonstrate rejuvenation more
convincingly than any other to date. Katcher has a proprietary process
for extracting a fraction (by molecular weight) of proteins from blood
plasma of young animals (Katcher and Sanghavi, 2022). Infusion of this
distillate into old rats has been shown to lower inflammatory markers,
increase insulin sensitivity, increase activity levels, restore learning
capacity, and rejuvenate skin and fur. Treated two-year-old rats scored
as one-year-old rats in Horvath's methylation clock for rodents. Katcher's
company aspires to human trials, but progress has been slowed by a
policy of keeping intellectual property as trade secret. Katcher hypothesizes
that blood of any young mammal contains proteins that can
rejuvenate mammals of other species, and this is the crucial point on
which development of his technology hinges.
Katcher's success also raises theoretical questions:
● What are the plasma proteins that he isolates but does not identify?
● What is the lifetime in the blood of these proteins?
● How does the effect of these proteins alone compare to the effect of
whole plasma from a young animal?
● Are extracellular vesicles also important for rejuvenation?
● Do the blood factors in Katcher's proprietary extract (“E5”) act
directly to lower the level of inflammation and to stimulate repair, or
do they act indirectly to affect transcription in cells throughout the
body, or both?
● Why does the intervention have a larger effect on males than
females?
● Is there really a much larger effect on maximum lifespan compared to
median lifespan, as his pilot experiment with female rats seems to
show?
● The effect on the Horvath clock indicates that methylation patterns
in dispersed cells can be quickly reprogrammed. Are other biological
clocks named above similarly affected?
● What is the optimum number and timing of E5 treatments for
humans?"

 

Mitteldorf J. How does the body know how old it is? Experimental Gerontology. 2023;177:112182.
https://www.scienced...531556523001031
 

 

[Mind]

Are there any updates lately on E5. I haven't heard to much about it in the last couple of months.

[zorba990]

There is already at least one hair growth/ skin product claiming to contain exosomes, Calecim.
https://calecimprofe...CAJciNkpppS_2jW
Is there something more to E5?

[Nicolas Chernavsky]

Hello everybody. In August 2023, Harold Katcher, together with other scientists, published an article in BioRxiv (published then in November 2023 in Geroscience) explaining what was given to the rats in order to reach the rejuvenation effect, which included exosomes. Indeed, as Zorba990 exemplified, there are many products today in the market with exosomes. The problem is how the exosomes are used in these products, as this use is not based in a strong scientific theory of aging. So, the basic science about exosomes (or small extracellular particles) needs to go further. In order to do that, my wife and I founded a research institute in Brazil, where we live, and together with experienced scientists from the University of Campinas, we reproduced Harold Katcher experiment, but we injected the pig plasma extracellular particles in young rats, instead of old rats, since we wanted, first, to evaluate if there would be any acute toxicity of immune reaction in the rats — and there was any such toxicity or immune reaction. We published the scientific article about this experiment last week: https://www.biorxiv.....11.28.625646v1 . Now, our institute (the Rejuvenation Science Institute (ICR), whose website is www.rejuvenescimento.org) is planning to inject the pig plasma extracellular particles in old rats to rejuvenated them. And we intend to let the rats live, in order that they can live indefinitely, if the treatment works. In the article and the website I mentioned our project is explained in detail. We need to know if rejuvenation was achieved or not with pig plasma extracellular particles. It's an urgent matter, and I invite everybody to help us in this endeavor. Our institute is a non-profit institution, and all the results and methods will be published.

[Rays]

Are there any updates lately on E5. I haven't heard to much about it in the last couple of months.

 

September 2024 research article:

https://onlinelibrar...1111/acel.14335

[QuestforLife]

September 2024 research article:

https://onlinelibrar...1111/acel.14335

 

Although this is a new paper, it is about experiments done some time ago. It is also jointly published between Akshay and Harold, who have parted ways now, so it doesn't really tell us too much about new developments, if any.

 

As to the results, the preservation (or is it enhancement?) in grip strength is impressive. The anti-inflammatory results are good, but less than I expected from previous results. And the lifespan results are significant, but underwhelming. It is hard to tell, because they don't have many animals, but the controls animals all seem to 'fall off a cliff' in terms of mortality, whereas the E5 treated animals taper off more slowly.