356 replies to this topic

[Dorian Grey]

SHAZAM!  Very deep dive into the nuts & bolts of the US bio-weapon program, Fauci & lab-leak with RFK jr (author of The Real Anthony Fauci) on the Jimmy Dore show.  

 

 

Eye popping, jaw dropping stuff.  

[Mind]

Now even the state department (in the US) is hiding information about the funding of gain-of-function research. The University of North Carolina is also not releasing public data about their coronavirus research.

 

Leaked DARPA grant application text again adds evidence toward the lab leak theory.

 

Google funded EcoHealth grants also clearly explain how Ralph Baric wanted to do gain of function research.

 

The latest media effort to defend the "natural origin" thesis is not remotely plausible. Raccoon dogs are not natural carriers of SARS-CoV2. It has been studied.

 

It was always a tiny cabal of health bureaucrats and researchers that pushed (with the media's help) the natural origin story. It was never very plausible that this virus evolved naturally. No surprise that the same people who are stonewalling the investigation were also the ones doing the dangerous research. They don't want to end up in prison.

[Mind]

Some of you might have noticed the scary headline recently;

 

“There is a huge biological risk associated with the occupation of the central public health lab,”

 

...in Sudan. Let that sink in.

 

Why is any country or the WHO storing and researching dangerous pathogens in Sudan? Even if those diseases are present in the country. One would think they could ship samples out and do research elsewhere  - more secure locations in stable countries.

 

Then again, remember the US was running bioresearch labs in the Ukraine. 30 of them. The US first lied about it, then admitted it.

 

Just like the US and Dr. Fauci have lied about funding gain of function research. Recall, the gain of function research was deemed too risky and the the DOD shut it down (in the US). Dr. Fauci and Google-funded EcoHealth then moved the research to Wuhan (and elsewhere?)

 

Dr. McCollough reviews some of the risky research conducted by the US in the last couple of decades - makes one wonder what other deadly unnatural pathogens have been created.

[geo12the]

 

 

Then again, remember the US was running bioresearch labs in the Ukraine. 30 of them. The US first lied about it, then admitted it.

 

 

 

Except it's not true. Russian propaganda.

 

https://www.usatoday...ion/6937923001/

https://www.politifa...-funded-biolab/

https://www.npr.org/...-russia-ukraine

[Daniel Cooper]

Except it's not true. Russian propaganda.

 

https://www.usatoday...ion/6937923001/

https://www.politifa...-funded-biolab/

https://www.npr.org/...-russia-ukraine

 

The lab in Wuhan doing gain of function research on bat coronaviruses funded by the NIAID and Dr. Fauci likely even during the Congressional ban on funding this type of research certainly isn't Russian propaganda.

[Mind]

Except it's not true. Russian propaganda.

 

https://www.usatoday...ion/6937923001/

https://www.politifa...-funded-biolab/

https://www.npr.org/...-russia-ukraine

 

 

Victoria Nuland said on TV in congressional testimony that the US was operating bioresearch facilities in the Ukraine.

 

Not Russian propaganda.

[geo12the]

Victoria Nuland said on TV in congressional testimony that the US was operating bioresearch facilities in the Ukraine.

 

Not Russian propaganda.

 

With misinformation a kernel of truth is used to spin a distorted narrative. There are "bioresearch facilities" all over the frigin world. If you asked the question "Are there bioresearch facilities in the Ukraine?", I would answer "Certainly". To go from that simple truth,  that there are biological research labs in the Ukraine, to the grand theory "there is a nefarious plot by the US to operate dangerous biological weapons lab in Ukraine" is propaganda pushed by Russia and China and political provocateurs like Greenwald. I don't buy Kremlin or CCP propaganda. These are repressive regimes led by craven crazy leaders who only care about remaining in power. You can read more here:

 

https://en.wikipedia...iracy_theory   

[geo12the]

The lab in Wuhan doing gain of function research on bat coronaviruses funded by the NIAID and Dr. Fauci likely even during the Congressional ban on funding this type of research certainly isn't Russian propaganda.

 

I agree. My response was in regards to the Ukraine bioweapons conspiracy theory, which is Russian and CCP propaganda. 

[Mind]

With misinformation a kernel of truth is used to spin a distorted narrative. There are "bioresearch facilities" all over the frigin world. If you asked the question "Are there bioresearch facilities in the Ukraine?", I would answer "Certainly". To go from that simple truth,  that there are biological research labs in the Ukraine, to the grand theory "there is a nefarious plot by the US to operate dangerous biological weapons lab in Ukraine" is propaganda pushed by Russia and China and political provocateurs like Greenwald. I don't buy Kremlin or CCP propaganda. These are repressive regimes led by craven crazy leaders who only care about remaining in power. You can read more here:

 

https://en.wikipedia...iracy_theory   

 

The US government lies almost all the time on matters of international importance. They are probably lying in this case as well, or obfuscating the truth. Victoria Nuland said the U.S. was operating biological research labs in the Ukraine (30 of them). This is NOT in dispute and is NOT Russian propaganda, unless you are saying Nuland is a Russian spy/operative.

[geo12the]

The US government lies almost all the time on matters of international importance. They are probably lying in this case as well, or obfuscating the truth. Victoria Nuland said the U.S. was operating biological research labs in the Ukraine (30 of them). This is NOT in dispute and is NOT Russian propaganda, unless you are saying Nuland is a Russian spy/operative.

 

I have not found any evidence that "U.S. was operating biological research labs in the Ukraine (30 of them!!!!!! LOL)". The previous link to Greenwald's page and the video of Nuland does not show evidence that this is true. What even is a biological research lab anyway? A lab studying song birds might be considered a biological research lab. There is not a conspiracy behind everything no mater what the conspiracy gurus you follow say. The US government is by no means perfect but I trust them more than the CCP and the Kremlin. I can't really believe anything you post because there is so much conspiratorial nonsense mixed in. 

[Mind]

"The Ukraine has biological research facilities". It is in the video. Nuland says she is worried that these might fall into Russian hands. She wouldn't be worried if they were studying birds, lol. Remember, the untrustworthy US government previously obfuscated about knowledge of biological research in Ukraine. 

[geo12the]

"The Ukraine has biological research facilities". It is in the video. Nuland says she is worried that these might fall into Russian hands. She wouldn't be worried if they were studying birds, lol. Remember, the untrustworthy US government previously obfuscated about knowledge of biological research in Ukraine. 

 

This is an old story (from last spring) and a textbook example of a ridiculous conspiracy theory. That it is still believed points to how gullible people are. It starts with a kernel of truth: Every developed country has "biological research facilities". And some may have reagents that could be harmful. Then you have the Kremlin claim  that public health facilities in Ukraine are "secret U.S.-funded biolabs" purportedly developing biological weapons. A claim that has been debunked by many sources. The claim is amplified by the CCP and those true advocates of truth and reality -Qanon. Because if Q says it's true, well it must be so. He has secret information after all. This was further spread by other conspiracy theorist kooks. You can read more details here:

 

https://en.wikipedia...nspiracy_theory

 

I have to wonder why on a site supposedly dedicated to longevity, you've got one of the moderators spreading disproven conspiracy theories that have nothing to do with longevity? Isn't there a Qanon or 4chan forum to discuss this kind of nonsense? 

Edited by geo12the, 03 May 2023 - 07:53 PM.

[Daniel Cooper]

I assume we agree that the NY Times isn't a right wing conspiracy theory site, no?
 
Theory About U.S.-Funded Bioweapons Labs in Ukraine Is Unfounded

 

That's the title of their fact checking story on the issue.

 

Quote from article:

 

There is no evidence to support the claims, which President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine, the White House, the Pentagon and the State Department have all unequivocally denied.

 

There are biological laboratories inside Ukraine, and since 2005, the United States has provided backing to a number of institutions to prevent the production of biological weapons. But Tucker Carlson, the Fox News host, and others have misleadingly cited remarks from American officials as proof that the labs are producing or conducting research on biological weapons.

 

“Out of nowhere, the Biden official in charge of Ukraine confirmed the story,” Mr. Carlson said on his program Thursday night. “Victoria Nuland, the under secretary of state, casually mentioned in a Senate hearing on Tuesday that actually, yes, the Biden administration does fund a series of biolabs in Ukraine.”

 

So it seems all sides agree that there were biological research labs in Ukraine being funded by the US. The only bone of contention is "biological research labs" vs "biological weapons research labs".

 

Now, I don't hang on Tucker Carlson's every word, so I don't know if he called them the former or the latter. He certainly does not call them bioweapons labs in that NYT piece. I'm also not seeing that Mind referred to them as "bioweapons labs" unless I missed it.

 

So where is our point of contention here? Even the NY Times says there were US funded biological research labs in Ukraine.  

 

We are all of course well aware that non-military bio research can still involve very dangerous pathological organisms of both natural and potentially man made origin.  And dual use technology is a real thing - something researched in the non-military sector can most definitely have military applications.  So are we arguing over a single word that I don't see Mind using in the first place?

 

Also, if we want to draw a fine point on it - isn't a lab researching how to "prevent the production of biological weapons" involved in "bioweapons research"? It is absolutely certain that back during the Cold War that a lot of military bio labs were involved in detecting and defending against Soviet bioweapons whilst they themselves were not involved in creating bioweapons.  None the less, they typically were handling some very nasty pathological agents that were assumed were being worked on in the Soviet Union. How are you going to work out how do defend against some hopped up version of anthrax if you're not doing experiments with anthrax? Would anyone have taken issue with calling such labs "bioweapon research labs"?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 03 May 2023 - 08:19 PM.

[geo12the]

 

 

So where is our point of contention here? Even the NY Times says there were US funded biological research labs in Ukraine.  

 

 

 

 The link to Greenwald's substack that Mind kept referencing suggests bioweapons labs. And Mind's post makes it seem like the existence of Biolabs is something nefarious. I am just trying to get at the truth here. And the truth is this non issue has been turned into a conspiracy theory by Qanon and other conspiracy gurus.

 

I will let Mind's words speak for themselves: "She wouldn't be worried if they were studying birds, lol. Remember, the untrustworthy US government previously obfuscated about knowledge of biological research in Ukraine." To me this is venturing into conspiracy theory land but maybe I am mistaken.  

Edited by geo12the, 04 May 2023 - 04:21 AM.

[Daniel Cooper]

Like I said, I don't think it's necessarily unreasonable to call a lab who's purpose is to "prevent the production of biological weapons" a lab doing "biological weapons research". It would depend on the exact nature of their research I suppose. How does one scientifically study in a lab ways to "prevent the production of biological weapons"? I'm unsure. If they have pathological materials on site and that is the goal of their research, I really wouldn't take issue with calling them a "biological weapons research facility" even though they may not be directly involved in creating biological weapons.

 

Let me suggest a handy method to make the determination. Ask the government (as may already have occurred - I don't know) - "Can you tell us the exact nature of the research being carried on in these facilities?".

 

If the answer is "that's classified" then there's a pretty good chance calling such a facility a "biological weapons research lab" isn't too far fetched.

 

I'm betting that such a question has been asked. I wonder what the response was?

 

Personally, I really doubt the US government was paying them to create bio weapons. But that doesn't mean that they weren't handling some really nasty and dangerous organisms. They may have well been researching fundamental techniques that would have applications in creating bio weapons or defending against them. I find that much more plausible.

 

Once again, ask the government to tell us exactly what they were working on. The response would give you a lot of insight on the nature of that lab.

 

 

 

 

[Mind]

Just reviewing some of the FOIA releases recently and finding that K. Andersen had good reasons to suspect SAR-CoV2 came from a lab, then had a call with Fauci, and boom, suddenly anyone who that it came from a lab was a fringe crackpot. We know from previous emails, the Fauci and Collins were desperate to crush the lab leak theory and anyone who discussed alternative approaches to the pandemic (like the authors of the GBD). I am unsure if there has ever been a more unethical and unscientific pair leading the NIH.

[Daniel Cooper]

Just reviewing some of the FOIA releases recently and finding that K. Andersen had good reasons to suspect SAR-CoV2 came from a lab, then had a call with Fauci, and boom, suddenly anyone who that it came from a lab was a fringe crackpot. We know from previous emails, the Fauci and Collins were desperate to crush the lab leak theory and anyone who discussed alternative approaches to the pandemic (like the authors of the GBD). I am unsure if there has ever been a more unethical and unscientific pair leading the NIH.

 

That whole deal with Kristian Andersen was really a sordid affair.  He tells Fauci in an email that "this virus potentially looks engineered", then they have that infamous conference call that we have no record of what was discussed, then almost immediately he's writing an article for publication that "no way, no how, this virus wasn't engineered, it arose naturally".  Aside from whatever was discussed in that call, what changed?  Dr. Andersen has never elaborated.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 02 June 2023 - 02:03 PM.

[Mind]

Anyone who does any cursory review of the evidence about the origin of SARS-CoV2 will come to the conclusion that it is highly likely that US/Ecohealth/Google-funded gain-of-function research led to the creation of this new virus. 

 

Fauci, Collins, and a tiny handful of unethical public "health" bureaucrats are the only ones still clinging to the "natural origin" theory - them and the incompetent national media in the US (ABC, CNN, NYT, AP, NBC, etc...)

[Daniel Cooper]

Anyone who does any cursory review of the evidence about the origin of SARS-CoV2 will come to the conclusion that it is highly likely that US/Ecohealth/Google-funded gain-of-function research led to the creation of this new virus. 

 

Fauci, Collins, and a tiny handful of unethical public "health" bureaucrats are the only ones still clinging to the "natural origin" theory - them and the incompetent national media in the US (ABC, CNN, NYT, AP, NBC, etc...)

 

I think if you were putting the supposition that Covid originated from a lab leak at the Wuhan Institute of Virology on trial in a criminal court you could build such a circumstantial case that you could likely get a conviction. 

 

Let's not forget, people get convicted criminally on circumstantial evidence all the time.  Up to and including charges of murder. You can build a very strong circumstantial case depending on the quality of the evidence.

 

But the really frustrating thing is that intelligences agencies in the US and no doubt other countries as well likely know with near certainty based on signal intercepts and photoreconnaissance satellites whether covid came from WIV.

 

Some of this could be revealed to the public. For instance - it is well known that the US has very capable photoreconnaissance satellites that can see in exquisite detail. There was an unconfirmed leak back in 2020 that US spy satellites noted that the parking lot at WIV was unexpectedly empty for a long period of time back in the late summer of 2019 (the sort of thing that would happen if you'd had a leak of a dangerous virus at that facility).  That could be confirmed by publishing degraded satellite images. Everyone in the world knows that our spy sats can resolve details the size of a car. Publishing images degraded to show whether the WIV parking lot was empty reveals no secret information.

 

The US intelligence infrastructure has revealed evidence of this nature in the past when it aligned with the government's interest. So does the evidence not exist or is revealing it not in the government's interest?

[Mind]

Even though it is easy to find numerous links to the Wuhan Lab (the WSJ is most recent to cement the lab origin theory) - the US government continues mostly lie about the origins...most likely because they (through Fauci and Google-funded EcoHealth) funded all of the research.

[Mind]

Just like US public "health" institutions hid data during the COVID panic, they are now hiding information about the origins of COVID - VIOLATING U.S. law.

[gamesguru]

It's frustrating how governments lag in delivering on their promises. The Biden administration definitely needs to unseal whatever it has. However it's not clear the extent to which he will be held accountable for the delay. In legal terms, it depends whether/what enforcement mechanisms are in the bill. Plus sounds like at least some authority to redact that's likely hard to police (subject again to whatever the enforcement mechanism is).

 

Have there been any studies published from a phylogenetic perspective (e.g. genetic reassortment), or an epidemiological one (e.g. geographically linking early cases with the Wuhan lab)? Studies that attempt to explain how—and where/why—the virus was man-made? Apologies if this has already been covered in some detail, this is a long thread.

[Mind]

This is not being reported in US national media of course, because their salaries are being paid substantially by Big Pharma companies :Researcher at the WUHAN lab was instructed to evaluate various strains of coronaviruses to see how effective they would be at infecting humans. He described the modified coronaviruses as "bio-weapons". Wild claims? Does he have evidence?

Edited by Mind, 30 June 2023 - 05:44 PM.

[Mind]

How many more lies will people believe from the US/UK "health" bureaucracies? Is it just easier to not confront the lies?

 

Congressional inquiry finds all kinds of statements from researchers that they clearly thought that SARS-CoV2 came from a lab....then they met with Dr. Fauci and said the complete opposite, publicly, just days later. This is basically academic and government fraud.

Edited by Mind, 12 July 2023 - 06:12 PM.

[Mind]

The congressional inquiry continues to find absolutely damning evidence that many scientists whole-heartedly believed that SARS-CoV2 came from a lab and they had plenty of evidence. Then they talked to Dr. Fauci and Dr. Collins and went on to lie to the public by saying it was definitely "natural origin". Dr. Fauci needs to be prosecuted over this. If they were willing to lie to and manipulate the pubic so brazenly on this issue, what else were they - and maybe still today - lying about?

 

In their own words - it came from a lab.

 

Dr. Fauci lied to Congress and the public when he said he had no idea risky gain of function research was going on in Wuhan.

[Daniel Cooper]

The congressional inquiry continues to find absolutely damning evidence that many scientists whole-heartedly believed that SARS-CoV2 came from a lab and they had plenty of evidence. Then they talked to Dr. Fauci and Dr. Collins and went on to lie to the public by saying it was definitely "natural origin". Dr. Fauci needs to be prosecuted over this. If they were willing to lie to and manipulate the pubic so brazenly on this issue, what else were they - and maybe still today - lying about?

 

In their own words - it came from a lab.

 

Dr. Fauci lied to Congress and the public when he said he had no idea risky gain of function research was going on in Wuhan.

 

According to Fauci, he didn't lie. He only uses a tortured definition of "gain of function" that nobody had ever used prior to 2020. 

 

He basically says <Fauci Voice> "Just because they took a virus, and manipulated it to acquire the ability to infect humans, that doesn't mean it was gain of function". </Fauci Voice>

 

He has his own personal definition of "gain of function" that is malleable to suit whatever his current needs are - mainly preventing him from being implicated in gain of function research that likely killed millions and was for several years illegal for him to have funded through the NIAID.

 

There absolutely should be an investigation of Dr. Fauci, his funding of the WIV, and the veracity of his statements post covid pandemic - mostly likely culminating in charges against him.

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 20 July 2023 - 06:34 PM.

[Daniel Cooper]

Dr. Fauci lied to Congress and the public when he said he had no idea risky gain of function research was going on in Wuhan.

 

Reading one of the emails from Fauci reproduced in that link above is revealing.  I re-type a selection from the image in the link:

 

Bottom line is that they all agree with my strong suggest to gather an even larger group under the auspices of an internationally credible organization. After some discussion they all felt that the WHO would be the most appropriate convener of such a group, and that the scientific experts be broadly representative of the global scientific community. Jeremy Farrar and Francis Collins will contact Tedros and ask him to do this. They hope to initiate this in the next day or two.

 

 They pass no judgment at all at this point and feel that the group's mandate should be: "What are the evolutionary origins of 2019-nCoV, important for future risk assessment and understanding of animal/human coronaviruses".

 

 

That last line is of course self contradictory. "They pass no judgement at all at this point", yet the mandate is to solely consider the evolutionary origins of 2019-nCov.  Which of course implicitly assumes that the virus did evolve rather than it having been created in a lab.

 

A neutral mandate would be "What are the origins of 2019-nCoV ....".

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 20 July 2023 - 07:37 PM.

[Mind]

I am unsure everyone is yet aware of the vast scope of deception that was employed during the COVID panic. People were routinely misled (by the US government and national media) about the threat posed by COVID, the pandemic response, alternative treatments, and nearly everything about the COVID mRNA injections.

 

Here is something that slipped by me and is relevant to this discussion: The "research" papers about pangolins transmitting SARS-CoV2 to humans were riddled with errors/falsehoods and were retracted. What is really disturbing is that Nature published these papers immediately but then dragged their feet - taking 6 months to officially retract them - which is why not many people are aware that this happened. Six months after February of 2020 people were more focused on other irrational and unscientific fear porn being pushed out by US "health" bureaucrats and national media outlets.

 

 

An alarming recent example is the case of the ‘pangolin papers’, four studies hurriedly published in February 2020 conveniently purporting to show that a handful of smuggled pangolins were infected with corona-viruses similar to SARS-CoV-2 in 2019. My co-author Dr Alina Chan of the Broad Institute of MIT and Harvard soon spotted that all four relied on data that had already been published the previous year, and one paper had simply re-described four biological samples under new names. 

It took the journal Nature six months to print a correction to that paper, in which the authors confessed to multiple errors. By then, the pangolins had done their job through the media to get the public thinking a natural source of the virus had been found – when it had not

 

[Mind]

New whistleblower testimony suggests that the CIA tried to pay people to support the natural origins story of COVID instead of the lab leak. There is a lot of criminality and unethical behavior that happened during the COVID panic - mostly committed by the US government.

[Hip]

New whistleblower testimony suggests that the CIA tried to pay people to support the natural origins story of COVID instead of the lab leak. There is a lot of criminality and unethical behavior that happened during the COVID panic - mostly committed by the US government.

 

How does your advocating for the manmade origin of COVID at the Wuhan Lab square with your view that COVID was already circulating in Europe many months before the Wuhan outbreak? These two views are in contradiction.

 

If COVID was in Europe months before Wuhan, then the Wuhan outbreak could not have been the source of the pandemic.

Edited by Hip, 30 September 2023 - 03:56 AM.