24 replies to this topic

[dalack]

Interesting research

https://news.berkele...-aging-in-mice/

[Nate-2004]

This was discussed at length on this site here:

 

https://joshmitteldo...-the-old-blood/

 

I am very interested in experimentation with this or having someone well trained in transfusions do this to me, rather than transfusing someone's blood into me. Perhaps synthetic blood will soon be a thing that will ultimately solve any issues here.

[jack black]

yup, i saw it in news here: https://www.scienced...00615115724.htm

i better start donating my plasma. i believe you can get paid for that too.

[Raphy]

Hello guys,

 

Anyone in the UK that would want to sync up with me to try to replicate this on ourselves?

 

Thanks

Raphael

[Smith]

So, lets talk about this.  The paper seems to dilute the blood plasma by removing nearly half the blood plasma and replacing it with saline and albumin protein. 

 

When you donate blood plasma, don't they do EXACTLY the same thing? Except they don't take half your plasma and I don't think you get protein.  I'm not sure how important the albumin is (the paper claims its not important at all), but shouldn't donating blood plasma at your local red cross be nearly the same as the dilution method used in the research?  You may have to donate multiple times to replace half your plasma though, but in the US, I think you can donate up to 2x per week in some areas.

 

Regular plasma donors should be reporting increase health benefits or rejuvenation.

Edited by Smith, 27 June 2020 - 10:22 PM.

[rodentman]

Hello guys,

 

Anyone in the UK that would want to sync up with me to try to replicate this on ourselves?

 

Thanks

Raphael

 

This new Conboy’s paper saw results from a process that sounds like Plasmapheresis, which is about $1500 per procedure in the U.S.

 

If it only needs to be done once in a while, that is fine, but if it has to be done every month th,at would be pretty costly.

 

Another option is plasma donation, but that isn't quite the same thing, and can only be done for 1/4 of the plasma at a time, but it's free... actually, they pay you like $30.00/donation.  I know there is evidence of health benefits for blood donors, so it's something to consider.

[Smith]

 

This new Conboy’s paper saw results from a process that sounds like Plasmapheresis, which is about $1500 per procedure in the U.S.

 

If it only needs to be done once in a while, that is fine, but if it has to be done every month th,at would be pretty costly.

 

Another option is plasma donation, but that isn't quite the same thing, and can only be done for 1/4 of the plasma at a time, but it's free... actually, they pay you like $30.00/donation.  I know there is evidence of health benefits for blood donors, so it's something to consider.

 

 

In Plasmapheresis, don't they replace your plasma with donated plasma in some cases? 

 

In plasma donation, they replace your plasma with saline, which is more in line with the paper.  But only something like 2/3 pint per donation; however, in some areas you can donate 2x per week.

 

What confuses me is, if diluting your plasma was good for you, why are we seeing reports showing negative health effects in areas where people donate a lot of plasma?

Edited by Smith, 27 June 2020 - 10:28 PM.

[rodentman]

In Plasmapheresis, don't they replace your plasma with donated plasma in some cases? 

 

In plasma donation, they replace your plasma with saline, which is more in line with the paper.  But only something like 2/3 pint per donation; however, in some areas you can donate 2x per week.

 

What confuses me is, if diluting your plasma was good for you, why are we seeing reports showing negative health effects in areas where people donate a lot of plasma?

 

 

There are different methods used, and it's possible that some require donated plasma, but many that I'm aware of just use saline or albumin as a replacement.  It actually is a bit more costly than I had mentioned earlier, I think it's more like $3000 - $4000, and involves a few visits.  It's something I've considered for my autoimmune condition.

 

Yes, I am aware of that report, but there needs to be an asteriks with these types of 'observational studies'.  I've heard that there is a difference between those who are occasional donators, and those who donate 2x a week.  The latter are more likely to be using this as a source of income, and these people tend to have higher mortality rates in general because of diet and substandard health care.  I suppose they may have attempted to adjust for this, but it's something to be weary of.

[orion22]

In Plasmapheresis, don't they replace your plasma with donated plasma in some cases? 

 

In plasma donation, they replace your plasma with saline, which is more in line with the paper.  But only something like 2/3 pint per donation; however, in some areas you can donate 2x per week.

 

What confuses me is, if diluting your plasma was good for you, why are we seeing reports showing negative health effects in areas where people donate a lot of plasma?

maybe its like fasting if you fast for 6 hours every day it dosen t count that much but if you have fast for 6 *5 =30 hours you get something remember you only donate 7-10% of you re total blood and the results in the study are with 50% dilution the doctor did say if you don t do a reset its pointless 

[Smith]

maybe its like fasting if you fast for 6 hours every day it dosen t count that much but if you have fast for 6 *5 =30 hours you get something remember you only donate 7-10% of you re total blood and the results in the study are with 50% dilution the doctor did say if you don t do a reset its pointless 

 

I think there might be promise in the technique. I tend to agree with rodentman that the report I linked showing adverse health effects of donating plasma possibly doesn't apply in this situation, because in china where poor people were preyed upon by blood plasma dealers, they were using unsterilized and dirty equipment.

 

Here in America and Europe, we can donate plasma without the concern for poor hygiene.  It could be easy enough for a member of this board to take the PhenoAge test before donating plasma, and then donate plasma 3-4 times and take another PhenoAge test to determine results (if any). Could have conclusive results within a month.

Edited by Smith, 28 June 2020 - 05:23 AM.

[Raphy]

I think there might be promise in the technique. I tend to agree with rodentman that the report I linked showing adverse health effects of donating plasma possibly doesn't apply in this situation, because in china where poor people were preyed upon by blood plasma dealers, they were using unsterilized and dirty equipment.

 

Here in America and Europe, we can donate plasma without the concern for poor hygiene.  It could be easy enough for a member of this board to take the PhenoAge test before donating plasma, and then donate plasma 3-4 times and take another PhenoAge test to determine results (if any). Could have conclusive results within a month.

Exactly, I hope someone does that and report.

 

Here in scotland I can't give plasma, only blood or platelets, so I can't test :/

[Believer]

It is very easy to take your own blood.

Done it several times.

 

Use a blood pressure cuff around the arm you want to use, bind it tightly

Get the person to clench their fist multiple times until arteries are clearly visible on the arm and hand

Apply lots of disinfectant to the area

Then use a large needle, 18G or thereabouts, to penetrate the artery. The syringe needs to be at least 10ml but preferably larger

After the needle has gone inside the artery, slowly pull back on the plunger in the syringe and let the air pressure fill the syringe. Don't pull too quickly

 

I prefer the arteries by the hand

[dalack]

So its easy to take your own blood and saline is dirt cheap. Is it possible to buy albumin without a prescription?

[Turnbuckle]

This idea could bring back blood letting! And it's not entirely crazy. It could be explained, for instance, by the surge in bone marrow activity after blood loss. 

 

 

The bone marrow contains two types of stem cells, mesenchymal and hematopoietic.

 

Red bone marrow consists of a delicate, highly vascular fibrous tissue containing hematopoietic stem cells. These are blood-forming stem cells.

 

Yellow bone marrow contains mesenchymal stem cells, also known as marrow stromal cells. These produce fat, cartilage, and bone. If a person experiences serious blood loss, yellow bone marrow can be activated and transformed into red bone marrow.

https://www.medicaln...articles/285666

 

 

 

Bone marrow is also the source of very small embryonic-like stem cells --

 

Very small embryonic/epiblast-like stem cells (VSELs) and their potential role in aging and organ rejuvenation

New data from our group and other groups has provided more evidence on the existence and biological role of primitive embryonic-like stem cells in murine adult tissues and their potential role in i) tissue organ rejuvenation, ii) longevity, and iii) regeneration/repair of damaged tissues.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3371759/

 

 

These VSELS circulate with the blood and can serve as a backup to depleted stem cell niches. Thus activating bone marrow via massive blood loss may stimulate an endogenous form of full-body stem cell therapy. 

[Starjumper7]

That's what I was thinking, that this shows that the ancient practice of blood letting, using leeches, was a useful practice.

[Seganfredo]

I've academically researched the health sciences over the last 17y+, am currently a medstudent and I'll probably experiment with this on myself and my father shortly. Got the transfusion blood bags and all the equip to try this out. Only missing the lab centrifuge to get it started - will likely build one from a fan, like I've seen in a friend's home lab - problem is is that it'll take ages to cycle 50% of one's blood.

 

I've been simply obsessed by the Conboys studies since they came out. Also Ambrosia Inc and all the others. Been interested specially in xenotransplant (piglett-to-human) and, since it came out, in the 50%-volume plasmapheresis exchanging plasma with saline with 5% albumin.

 

I know self-experimentation in such a procedure isn't the best way forward, but it seems it's the only way forward and I'm willing to do anything (as responsibly and wisely as I can) to solve our issues.

My dad's completely wasted to the point of being an invalid from a terminal multiple myeloma that, according to his docs team, should have killed him 3y ago (his MDs had given up on him, giving him 3mo TOPS - then I've used EVERYTHING I've found researching beyond the guidelines - made to make big pharma rich and patients pretty dead - and got him on complete remission. But taking care of everything in his workaholic's life, his health, and living in the hospital and trying tyo have a life of my own was just too much stress. Also having 2mi USD stolen from me - all my money - got me beyond stressed. The ridiculous stress got me to develop adrenal insufficiency, which I've had for the last 2y (checking now if it's full-blown Addison's or not - will have the results shortly) which totally, TOTALLY effs-up with my life quality BIG TIME. I need, I MUST solve this completely ASAP. I'm not living while I'm with this, I'm existing.

 

While with my dad the MDs refuse to do the procedure as it's not in the effin GUIDELINES for him now as he's wasted but on remission, with me, even if I'd be able to do it as per autoimmunity, I'm definitely not willing nor able to pay that type of cash now (could use my father's means, but that would suck - and plus, idk if it'll work for squat in me).

 

Now, I wager that renewing the blood and removing prejudicial proteins is a major factor in why women have longer lifespans than men.

Also, I've practiced minor autohemotherapy on myself (and family) over the last decade, which has helped me deal with the autoimmune and adrenal issues just so enormously - and makes me think if the proteine principles in this study explains part of the power of autohemotherapy.

 

I've no idea if any of this makes sense: I'm sleepy senseless, exhausted and brainfogged from the adrenal insufficieny. Hope it does.

Edited by Seganfredo, 19 April 2022 - 03:30 AM.

[Phoebus]

I've academically researched the health sciences over the last 17y+, am currently a medstudent and I'll probably experiment with this on myself and my father shortly. Got the transfusion blood bags and all the equip to try this out. Only missing the lab centrifuge to get it started - will likely build one from a fan, like I've seen in a friend's home lab - problem is is that it'll take ages to cycle 50% of one's blood.

 

 

 

Wow! that is super impressive. A bit scary for me, but I applaud your gumption. PLease post your process and results if you actually do this I am extremely interested in this. 

 

Also for myeloma please look into ascorbic acid IV, its proven to be helpful with this specific cancer. 

 

 

 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5405162/

 

Multiple Myeloma Tumor Cells are Selectively Killed by Pharmacologically-dosed Ascorbic Acid

[Seganfredo]

Thanks for the response and kind words, Phoebus.

 

As per the IV ascorbic acid, yes, it's pretty interesting. It's one of the things I had in store for him, but we've reached full remission before I managed to reasearch it well enough to know how it can be safely done - so it wasn't needed. I've used SO MANY substances, technologies and processes to reach remission that I honestly can't ever name all of them. I wrote a book (in Portuguese - I'm Brazilian) with my findings, listing many of the studies I've based myself on.

 

Now I'm mostly looking on how to turn the devastating cachexia around - he only passively and mindlessly goes in slow motion with his spine all twisted from the MM from bed to a hammock to the table to eat, back to bed without a word. Most saddening sh*t ever. But he's alive and stably so. Been looking into SARMs and other things to get him back, but it's his brain and HPA (adrenals too, in specific), I believe, that need the biggest improvement.

 

I do intend to post the process and results here. I've just been worried about how I'll be able to centrifuge LITERS of blood inside some tiny vials and still make it work.

 

It's what's stopping me from going forward for the moment being.

 

Wow! that is super impressive. A bit scary for me, but I applaud your gumption. PLease post your process and results if you actually do this I am extremely interested in this. 

 

Also for myeloma please look into ascorbic acid IV, its proven to be helpful with this specific cancer. Thanks a bunch for the response.

 

Edited by Seganfredo, 19 April 2022 - 06:52 PM.

[Seganfredo]

To all - embedded into two posts of mine ago;

 

I pose the question of whether simply removing one's blood will cause the same effect of diluting one's blood plasma and, therefore, rejuvenate tissues

(by removing one's full blood, one will definitely lose one's plasma and one's accumulated deleterious proteins with it - it couldn't get any simpler).

 

Yes, of course one will have to "spend one's lifeforce" (just to use a generic term) to reconstruct one's RBC and all other lost parts of a full blood, but to me it seems it'll only activate further one's bone marrow and tip the balance from yellow bone marrow to red, which would possibly cause another positive effect indirectly.

 

Obviously it would be beyond unwise to take 50% of someone's blood in one sitting - that'd lead to, well, death - it'd have to be done slower, which could change the dynamic of the whole procedure (?).

 

I also propose that it's very probably the/a reason why women have longer lifespans then men (as they menstruate) and that minor (or major) autohemotherapy might lead to the same benefits in the long run without the loss of blood material - as the blood gets injected into the muscle, seen as a foreign body to the muscle and eaten by the (more than quadrupled) macrophages, likely together with the blood's proteins (?).

 

So many questions...

 

 

https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/34083162/

Attenuation of age-elevated blood factors by repositioning plasmapheresis: A novel perspective and approach

Abstract

Aging is associated with the impairment of stem cell activation, leading to the functional decline of tissues and increasing the risk for age-associated diseases. The old, damaged or unrepaired tissues disturb distant tissue homeostasis by secreting factors into the circulation, which may not only serve as biomarkers for specific age-associated pathologies but also induce a variety of degenerative phenotypes. In this review, we summarize and discuss systemic determinants that perpetuate age-related tissue dysfunction. We further elaborate on the effects of attenuating these circulating factors by highlighting recent advances which utilize plasmapheresis in a pre-clinical or clinical setting. Overall, we postulate that repositioning therapeutic plasma exchange (TPE) to dilute the systemic factors, which become deleterious at their age-elevated levels, could be a rapidly effective rejuvenation therapy that recalibrates crucial signaling pathways to a youthful state.

 

Keywords: Age-associated diseases; Aging; Blood; Inflammation; Plasma; Plasmapheresis; Rejuvenation; Senescence-associated secretory phenotype (SASP); Senescent cells; Systemic factors; Tissue repair.

 

[s1lordi]

I've academically researched the health sciences over the last 17y+, am currently a medstudent and I'll probably experiment with this on myself and my father shortly. Got the transfusion blood bags and all the equip to try this out. Only missing the lab centrifuge to get it started - will likely build one from a fan, like I've seen in a friend's home lab - problem is is that it'll take ages to cycle 50% of one's blood.

 

I've been simply obsessed by the Conboys studies since they came out. Also Ambrosia Inc and all the others. Been interested specially in xenotransplant (piglett-to-human) and, since it came out, in the 50%-volume plasmapheresis exchanging plasma with saline with 5% albumin.

 

I know self-experimentation in such a procedure isn't the best way forward, but it seems it's the only way forward and I'm willing to do anything (as responsibly and wisely as I can) to solve our issues.

My dad's completely wasted to the point of being an invalid from a terminal multiple myeloma that, according to his docs team, should have killed him 3y ago (his MDs had given up on him, giving him 3mo TOPS - then I've used EVERYTHING I've found researching beyond the guidelines - made to make big pharma rich and patients pretty dead - and got him on complete remission. But taking care of everything in his workaholic's life, his health, and living in the hospital and trying tyo have a life of my own was just too much stress. Also having 2mi USD stolen from me - all my money - got me beyond stressed. The ridiculous stress got me to develop adrenal insufficiency, which I've had for the last 2y (checking now if it's full-blown Addison's or not - will have the results shortly) which totally, TOTALLY effs-up with my life quality BIG TIME. I need, I MUST solve this completely ASAP. I'm not living while I'm with this, I'm existing.

 

While with my dad the MDs refuse to do the procedure as it's not in the effin GUIDELINES for him now as he's wasted but on remission, with me, even if I'd be able to do it as per autoimmunity, I'm definitely not willing nor able to pay that type of cash now (could use my father's means, but that would suck - and plus, idk if it'll work for squat in me).

 

Now, I wager that renewing the blood and removing prejudicial proteins is a major factor in why women have longer lifespans than men.

Also, I've practiced minor autohemotherapy on myself (and family) over the last decade, which has helped me deal with the autoimmune and adrenal issues just so enormously - and makes me think if the proteine principles in this study explains part of the power of autohemotherapy.

 

I've no idea if any of this makes sense: I'm sleepy senseless, exhausted and brainfogged from the adrenal insufficieny. Hope it does.

 

Aging comes in two parts, one is stemcell, the other is genetic, and asking this question here: https://www.longecit...a-mutatet-gene/ . If you are interestet in doing experiments together, give me a message or skype etc.

[dalack]

Hi

I'd be very interested in your research results. Please keep us up to date. Thanks

[resveratrol_guy]

https://www.longecit...onal-experience

[Space_Sheep]

In the OP paper, plasma dilution "has the same or stronger rejuvenation effects on the brain, liver and muscle than pairing with young mice or young blood exchange.

They were holding it up as a contrast to young plasma transfusion - but maybe we should say "complement".

Because, one gets rid of old damaged/pathological homeostasis proteins, the other replaces them with young healthy proteins.

The two approaches are surely synergistic, and in the experiment where they joined up the circulatory sytsems of an old and a young mouse,

I'm certain they would have obtained better results if they diluted the old mouse's plasma first, so that neither of the mice had to carry that pointless burden.

[Seganfredo]

Great news.

 

I found out how to DIY without a lab centrifuge and am doing it on my father in a few days. After I do half a liter on him the 1st time, I'll do 1L on myself if it all goes fine (and it will).

Also, there's 3 people who know me and know I do health experiments/"hacks" and want me to do this same procedure on them.

I think they're crazy - I wonder how they can trust me to be this right and do it well, especially without proper installations.

After I do it on my father and me once, only then I'll check if I'll be able to do it on anyone else and not put my future degree and register in danger (not to mention ppl's lives).

 

I'll be documenting it in this topic: https://www.longecit...human/?p=916900

 

Wish me luck (more good luck than I got good judgement).

Edited by Seganfredo, 15 July 2022 - 06:21 AM.

[HighDesertWizard]

This thread is missing a reference to a key, Key, KEY study of the Conboys published in August 2022...

 

Old plasma dilution reduces human biological age: a clinical study

Edited by HighDesertWizard, 31 March 2023 - 08:21 PM.