18 replies to this topic

[DividedMind2008]

Hi,

I'm new to the forum and I'm trying to enhance my understanding of these topics so i apologize in advance for my lack of knowledge with regard to these topics.

1) I've suffered from chronic depersonalization since 2008. My chronic depersonalization was a direct result of withdrawal from zyprexa and hypnotics.

- I actually have a blog up which details how this atrocity took place - i saw 63 specialists and was completely "numb" until i was able to obtain a correct diagnosis and start treatment. It was the worst experience of my life. I spent a year not being able to recognize myself in the mirror, crying, contemplating suicide. I knew something was wrong with me but nobody could figure it out.

- By the grace of God - i was able to find a good psychiatrist and start treatment.

- Since 2009 i have been on a steady regimen of Luvox, Klonopin, and lamictal. This is what the University of London Depersonalization institute recommends so that's what we did. And it worked.

Since that time ive titrated the medication up or down and at one point was only taking 150mg luvox, 1.5 mg klonopin, and 100 mg lamictal daily (from 300mg luvox, 3mg klonopin, and 300mg lamictal at the onset of treatment).

I also suffer from bilateral atypical trigeminal neuralgia and will likely have to have an mvd soon to alleviate the pain.

Anyway - recently after attempting to return to work full time (i haven't worked in that capacity since 2008) i started having symptoms of constant earworms or "song stuck syndrome".

To help with this i increased my luvox to 250mg daily but it hasn't helped much.

After some research i found that luvox hasn't helped with people that are suffering from this bizarre phenomenon (song stuck syndrome) but some ppl have some luck with prozac (because it affects non ephedrine).

For over a decade I've prevented any and all attempts to have my medication changed since my life was taken in 2008. But im at a point where I'm considering it.

What are your thoughts on changing to prozac? I have a good pdoc now and have faith the titraring of one to the other would be done correctly.

Are there any supplements that would help with intrusive thoughts - which essentially is the root of song stuck syndrome - and even in some cases - depersonalization that will NOT affect what my medication is doing?

D Ribose?
L theanine?

I purchased some supplements but i don't want them to be counter productive.

Every other day im able to take 100mg of armodafinil. It really helps pull me out if the depersonalization and helps me with intrusive thoughts also. So im not sure if there's anything (supplement wise) that hits the same "receptors"??

I'm currently using

Luvox 250mg daily
Klonopin .75mg daily
Lamictal 150mg daily
Armodafinil 100mg every other day

Supplement wise i take -

Multi vitamin
Cilantro
Fish oil
Acetyl l carnitine
Arginine


Night-

B complex
Magnesium zinc
D3/k2
Saw palmetto
Turmeric

Thinking of adding -

L theanine
Nac
Glutamine
Potassium
D Ribose

I just don't want the supplements im taking to counteract what im trying to do and or interact with my medicine.

Thanks in advance.

Chris

[Meggo]

Fluvoxamine seems to inhibit Covid-19 Replication, so maybe it is a good time to try it right now.

[ibtisam_midlet]

i don't know much about depersonalization but Luvox and prozac is SSRIs so they are the same despite luvox have sigma agonizing effect so its better to stay with it.

[DividedMind2008]

i don't know much about depersonalization but Luvox and prozac is SSRIs so they are the same despite luvox have sigma agonizing effect so its better to stay with it.

 

I"m really new to this so when you say "sigma agonizing effect" I"m not sure what you mean...

 

Its quite similar to my questions above (with regard to the supplements)..

 

When i was a kid I thought the substances we put in our bodies cause the effect we have after we ingest them. When in reality - I soon found that in most of the substances we ingest for some kind of effect - drugs, prescriptions, etc. they make our brain react in a way which in turn causes the effect....

 

So all of these drugs have a certain affect on the brain, which in turn illicits a response from the brain which equals the desired effect.

 

Being on klonopin, lamictal, and luvox since 2009 I'm not sure what receptors exactly they work on etc... and if i should rotate this to keep my receptors/neurons fresh and not burnt out...

 

My bigger question is - 

 

My research indicates that supplements such as 

 

L theanine

l glutamine

d ribose

 

and many others are "good" for the brain...

 

but what's "good" for the brain may not be "good for me"...

 

If my drugs (prescriptions) are meant to inhibit (restrict) a certain chemical and the supplement I'm taking is in turn mean to release more of that compound than I'm not doing myself any favors....

 

So I'm trying to figure out what supplements could HELP with the problems I'm facing (intrusive thoughts, earworms, song stuck syndrome, and despite my depersonalization being under control anything that helps being more grounded).

 

the fact that armodafinil seems to help me immensely points to some dopamine like supplement could help?

 

I apologize in advance as my knowledge on these topics is amateur at best and i have not done my due diligence with regard to research. My life has been quite difficult these past 4 weeks as my wifes cancer returned and she was recently in the hospital. That combined with my own health issues have taken up the majority of my time. 

 

Thank you for your responses. 

[Hip]

Have you looked into the studies which found naltrexone effective for depersonalization / derealization?

[Meggo]

IDRA-21 and Unifiram.

[ibtisam_midlet]

as of my understand to denationalization its like ego death that caused by many NMDA receptors antagonist like kitamine, DXM etc..

so i think low dose NMDA receptors agonist can help you like clozapine she agonist NMDA glycine sites, an it's well-know as the best antipsychotic for Schizophrenia.

 

[DividedMind2008]

Have you looked into the studies which found naltrexone effective for depersonalization / derealization?

 

I have. I tried Naltrexone after reading the studies but it actually made me feel worse. 

I'm actually more concerned about this "song stuck syndrome" as opposed to the depersonalization right now as it seems to be worsening. Even whilst typing this and trying to focus on this I have a song playing in my head. It starts the minute I open my eyes.... 

[DividedMind2008]

as of my understand to denationalization its like ego death that caused by many NMDA receptors antagonist like kitamine, DXM etc..

so i think low dose NMDA receptors agonist can help you like clozapine she agonist NMDA glycine sites, an it's well-know as the best antipsychotic for Schizophrenia.

 

Your'e right. 

When i studied philosophy in Grad school I actually had the chance to study the theory of "sense of self" and/or the one (i can't recall the name now) that says our ego is merely a collection of our thoughts and our experiences.

 

So Depersonalization is essentially a "lack of that ego" or sense of self.

 

The university of london kings college depersonalization institute recommends an ssri, klonopin, and lamictal for depersonalization (chronic) and thus far its been very very effective for me (life saving). Obviously whilst under stress or otherwise i do experience it but its not chronic more like transient.

 

I"m a bit more concerned with the intrusive ear worms at the moment. But depersonalization is a killer syndrome if you have it chronic like i do....its extremely rare to have it chronic and i believe it was caused by whatever happened to my brain during my usage of zyprexa and subsequent withdrawals. 

 

Some people do use antipsychotics for dp but some don't. As I"m sure your aware everyone is different and reacts differently to treatment. 

[DividedMind2008]

IDRA-21 and Unifiram.

 

Thank you. 

I will look into this.

 

If these are nootropics I have to be careful...as the reason I only take armodafinil every other day as opposed to every day is the potential of worsening of my facial pain syndrome (trigeminal neuralgia type 2). When i took ritalin or adderal i felt great - like it lifted me out of my depersonalization (along with my current regimen of an ssri, klonopin, and lamictal) and it was the perfect balance - but as a central nervous system stimulant it caused my nerves to misfire constantly causing me to be in constant pain - my facial pain worsened and even after discontinuing the medication (ritalin / adderal) didn't subside back to its "normal state" for some months.

as of my understand to denationalization its like ego death that caused by many NMDA receptors antagonist like kitamine, DXM etc..

so i think low dose NMDA receptors agonist can help you like clozapine she agonist NMDA glycine sites, an it's well-know as the best antipsychotic for Schizophrenia.

 

Are you aware of any OTC supplements / vitamins that can mimic this effect?

[DividedMind2008]

I just purchased a sh-- load of vitamins/supplements but I'd like to know if these could interact with my medications (luvox, lamictal, klonopin, armodafinil) and/or worsen depersonaliztion / ocd / intrusive thoughts.

 

Potassium

Glutamine

L theanine

Avena Sativa

L Lysine

Milk Thistle

D Ribose

 

My current regimen is - 

 

AM - 

Multivitamin

Fish oil

Acetyl L Carnitine

Arginine

Cilantro

 

 

PM - 

Magnesium / Zinc

B Right B Complex

NAC

Fish Oil

Tumeric

Saw Palmetto

 

ON OCCASION - 

 

Ashwanda

Rhidola

 

 

[ibtisam_midlet]

Are you aware of any OTC supplements / vitamins that can mimic this effect?

Aspartic acid and L-glutamate

[Meggo]

Thank you. 

I will look into this.

 

If these are nootropics I have to be careful...as the reason I only take armodafinil every other day as opposed to every day is the potential of worsening of my facial pain syndrome (trigeminal neuralgia type 2). When i took ritalin or adderal i felt great - like it lifted me out of my depersonalization (along with my current regimen of an ssri, klonopin, and lamictal) and it was the perfect balance - but as a central nervous system stimulant it caused my nerves to misfire constantly causing me to be in constant pain - my facial pain worsened and even after discontinuing the medication (ritalin / adderal) didn't subside back to its "normal state" for some months.

 

Are you aware of any OTC supplements / vitamins that can mimic this effect?

Unifiram or IDRA will probably worsen your pain, they increased headaches for me. You could try to treat DP/DR like some form of schizophrenia. There you have the breakdown of Gamma Synchronicity. The lower your Gamma wave amplitudes the weaker your sense of consciousness of the outside world will become in addition to memory problems.

https://medicalxpres...pheres-aid.html

https://medicalxpres...cit-linked.html

You can try increasing Gamma sync through:

Meditation

low dose Clonopin

https://medicalxpres...d-problems.html

https://www.dharmaov...message/3373753

Mind Machines (40Hz visual flickering lights, u can use your mobile phone as a vr lens for a cheap alternative; also good against Alzheimer plaques)

Monoarual beats (for free, but don't seem to work well)

Neurofeedback with Gamma Amplitude and Synchronicity protocols (people with Schizophrenia need a lot of sessions >100 or even life long treatment, but I heard amazing recovery stories)

https://groups.io/g/...?q=Dissociation

I'm not saying you are Schizophrenic, i'm just saying there are similar Sympoms in both diseases (Dissociation is part ot the prodrome after all) so what helps one group of patients could help another. 

[DividedMind2008]

Unifiram or IDRA will probably worsen your pain, they increased headaches for me. You could try to treat DP/DR like some form of schizophrenia. There you have the breakdown of Gamma Synchronicity. The lower your Gamma wave amplitudes the weaker your sense of consciousness of the outside world will become in addition to memory problems.

https://medicalxpres...pheres-aid.html

https://medicalxpres...cit-linked.html

You can try increasing Gamma sync through:

Meditation

low dose Clonopin

https://medicalxpres...d-problems.html

https://www.dharmaov...message/3373753

Mind Machines (40Hz visual flickering lights, u can use your mobile phone as a vr lens for a cheap alternative; also good against Alzheimer plaques)

Monoarual beats (for free, but don't seem to work well)

Neurofeedback with Gamma Amplitude and Synchronicity protocols (people with Schizophrenia need a lot of sessions >100 or even life long treatment, but I heard amazing recovery stories)

https://groups.io/g/...?q=Dissociation

I'm not saying you are Schizophrenic, i'm just saying there are similar Sympoms in both diseases (Dissociation is part ot the prodrome after all) so what helps one group of patients could help another. 

 

Thank you so much for this.

I currently take Klonopin as part of my regimen (Luvox, Klonopin, and Lamictal) - currently at .25mg morning and afternoon and .5 at night.

Klonopin seems to be the most important part of the regimen.

 

I absolutely agree with your logic - one symptom is usually the result of a larger problem. In my case, this was a result of sleep deprivation after use of zyprexa for 4 months at a very high dose. This quack psychiatrist convinced me to use it for intrusive thoughts - and since i had used it earlier in my life - i agreed with him - i was suffering for some time with some very intrusive thoughts - when your in that state of mind your not really willing to discuss treatment options but rather to just take what they give you to ease the pain. i discontinued the zyprexa without titration and didn't sleep for weeks - seriously. i tried lunesta, ambien....2 lunesta's.....then finally i began drinking to sleep - and to feel anything - it made me extremely emotional. one day while drinking - ill never forget this - i walked outside to smoke a cigarette and BOOM - my sense of self left me - it has since never returned - i saw my dog running but it was like seeing her in slow motion.... 

 

i wonder if neurons were damaged during this process and besides using my regimen to keep this disease at bay if there is anything i could take or use to potentially help those parts of the brain "heal". 

 

I will look into the options above. Thank you so much.

[DividedMind2008]

i don't know much about depersonalization but Luvox and prozac is SSRIs so they are the same despite luvox have sigma agonizing effect so its better to stay with it.

 

What do you think about this (except taken from one of the song stuck syndrome studies regarding the efficacy of luvox and prozac to treat the problem) - 

 

 

In contrast to paroxetine and fluvoxamine, fluoxetine not only inhibits serotonin reuptake, but also has norepinephrine reuptake inhibition and serotonin 2C (5HT2C) antagonist actions. Early research suggests that the 5HT2C receptor may have a role in OCD, which may help account for its effectiveness in this case.¹⁰

[ibtisam_midlet]

What do you think about this (except taken from one of the song stuck syndrome studies regarding the efficacy of luvox and prozac to treat the problem) -


In contrast to paroxetine and fluvoxamine, fluoxetine not only inhibits serotonin reuptake, but also has norepinephrine reuptake inhibition and serotonin 2C (5HT2C) antagonist actions. Early research suggests that the 5HT2C receptor may have a role in OCD, which may help account for its effectiveness in this case.¹⁰

Flouxetine is selective SSRI, his effenity to HT2C is weaker by x72 times then it's effenity to serotonin transporter
https://en.m.wikiped...wiki/Fluoxetine

The same for paroxetine
https://en.m.wikiped...wiki/Paroxetine
Without any eligible effenity to noradrenaline transporter

[DividedMind2008]

Flouxetine is selective SSRI, his effenity to HT2C is weaker by x72 times then it's effenity to serotonin transporter
https://en.m.wikiped...wiki/Fluoxetine

The same for paroxetine
https://en.m.wikiped...wiki/Paroxetine
Without any eligible effenity to noradrenaline transporter

 

Is paroxetine more effective at all with regard to nor epinephrine re uptake inhibition and serotonin 2C antagonist actions?

[ibtisam_midlet]

Is paroxetine more effective at all with regard to nor epinephrine re uptake inhibition and serotonin 2C antagonist actions?

no, anafranil will be good for you, it's strong working in very low dose, balanced serotonin noradrenaline reuptake inhibitor with histamine 1 receptor antagonizing activity.

[DividedMind2008]

no, anafranil will be good for you, it's strong working in very low dose, balanced serotonin noradrenaline reuptake inhibitor with histamine 1 receptor antagonizing activity.

 

I think Anafril is the only other choice that did well on the studies re SSS. But I"m a little afraid of the side effects - its pretty notorious for sexual side effects.