9 replies to this topic

[Oakman]

"Osteocalcin, a hormone produced in the bones, could one day provide treatments for age-related issues such as muscle and memory loss"

 

https://www.theguard...ie-in-our-bones

Edited by Oakman, 05 July 2020 - 10:35 PM.

[OlderThanThou2]

What's the difference with what Vitamin K2 does?

[Oakman]

What's the difference with what Vitamin K2 does?

 

They only seem to be interrelated, as K2 (maybe, not sure if K1 or K2) is needed for production of Osteocalcin. Their functions in the body appear quite different.

 

From Wikipedia...

 

"The mechanism of action of vitamin K₂ is similar to vitamin K₁. K vitamins were first recognized as a factor required for coagulation, but the functions performed by this vitamin group were revealed to be much more complex. K vitamins play an essential role as cofactor for the enzyme γ-glutamyl carboxylase, which is involved in vitamin K-dependent carboxylation of the gla domain in "Gla proteins" (i.e., in conversion of peptide-bound glutamic acid (Glu) to γ-carboxy glutamic acid (Gla) in these proteins)."

 

https://en.wikipedia...wiki/Vitamin_K2

 

"MK-4 or MK-7 has a protective effect on bone mineral density and reduced risk of hip, vertebral and non-vertebral fractures.^[7] These effects appear to be accentuated when combined with vitamin D and in the setting of osteoporosis.^[1] The possible health benefits suggested for further investigation relate to bone strength and arterial health (reducing calcification or even decalcifying, with a possible reduction in blood pressure).^[8]"

 

and

 

"Osteocalcin, also known as bone gamma-carboxyglutamic acid-containing protein, is a small non collagenous protein hormone found in bone and dentin, first identified as a calcium-binding protein in chick bone. Because osteocalcin has gla domains, its synthesis is vitamin K dependent."

 

"In its uncarboxylated form, osteocalcin acts as a hormone in the body, signalling in the pancreas, fat, muscle, testes, and brain.^[12]

• In the pancreas, osteocalcin acts on beta cells, causing beta cells in the pancreas to release more insulin.^[11]
• In fat cells, osteocalcin triggers the release of the hormone adiponectin, which increases sensitivity to insulin.^[11]
• In muscle, osteocalcin acts on myocytes to promote energy availability and utilization and in this manner favors exercise capacity.^[13]
• In the testes, osteocalcin acts on Leydig cells, stimulating testosterone biosynthesis and therefore affect male fertility.^[14]
• In the brain, osteocalcin plays an important role in development and functioning.^[15]"

Edited by Oakman, 13 July 2020 - 02:14 PM.

[OlderThanThou2]

Vitamin K2 increases GLA containing osteocalcin in the extra cellular matrix and osteocalcin mRNA inside the cells, in combination with vitamin D:

 

https://pubmed.ncbi....ih.gov/9076586/

 

 

The role of vitamin K in osteocalcin accumulation in the extracellular matrix of normal human osteoblasts in culture was investigated by using a human intact osteocalcin-specific assay system. Human osteoblasts produced osteocalcin by treatment with 10(-9) M 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3 (1,25(OH)2D3) for 20 days in culture. With the addition of vitamin K2 (1.5-5.0 microM), osteocalcin accumulation in the extracellular matrix of the osteoblasts was increased, but the osteocalcin content in the conditioned medium decreased, in comparison with that treated with 10-9 M 1,25(OH)2D3 alone. The enhancement of osteocalcin accumulation induced by vitamin K2 was dependent on the duration of the treatment. The vitamin K2 plus 1,25(OH)2D3-induced osteocalcin accumulation was blocked by the addition of warfarin 2 days before the vitamin treatment. At that time, warfarin significantly reduced the mineralization by osteoblasts in vitro. Osteocalcin accumulated in the extracellular matrix was almost completely precipitated by a low concentration of hydroxyapatite, 10 mg/ml. Moreover, the gamma-carboxyglutamic acid (Gla)-containing osteocalcin level was increased by the vitamin K2 plus 1,25(OH)2D3 treatment. These results proved that vitamin K2 increased Gla-containing osteocalcin, which accumulated osteocalcin in the extracellular matrix, and facilitated mineralization in vitro. Vitamin K2 also enhanced the 1,25(OH)2D3-induced osteocalcin mRNA level, but vitamin K2 alone did not show osteocalcin mRNA expression. We thus demonstrated that vitamin K2 enhanced not only the accumulation of Gla osteocalcin, but also the osteocalcin production induced by 1,25(OH)2D3 in human osteoblasts in culture.

 

 

I don't really know the difference between this and what is described in your article. There might be other forms of osteocalcin.

Edited by OlderThanThou2, 13 July 2020 - 06:01 PM.

[Oakman]

Vitamin K2 increases GLA containing osteocalcin in the extra cellular matrix and osteocalcin mRNA inside the cells, in combination with vitamin D:

 

https://pubmed.ncbi....ih.gov/9076586/

 

 

I don't really know the difference between this and what is described in your article. There might be other forms of osteocalcin.

 

​I must admit, much of this study content is above my grade level. Perhaps I'm not following your comment above, but to me it seems simply this: the quote, "enhancement of osteocalcin accumulation induced by vitamin K2 was dependent on the duration of the treatment." says it all. That to me indicates that K2 increases osteocalcin production. That's fine, but K2, as a hormone, does other things.  The osteocalcin produced, which is also a hormone, goes and does other things. K2 helps osteocalcin, but they are two different hormones with different functions.

 

 

Edited by Oakman, 13 July 2020 - 10:55 PM.

[OlderThanThou2]

I am no expert either I'll try to read a bit more on that. It might just be that osteoblasts become less and less effective at making osteocalcin, even with vitamin K2.

[pamojja]

More research about the need of K-vitamins and bone-health: https://www.k-vitami...x.php?page=Bone

[Oakman]

More research about the need of K-vitamins and bone-health: https://www.k-vitami...x.php?page=Bone

 

Thanks pamojja, I love when an author, like on this site, is able to construct a whole story, one that is reasonably easy to follow and at the same time, explain a complex subject from beginning to end. Very informative. 

 

It seems that he should add another topic though, about this new research on K and muscles and memory. Exciting stuff!

 

Last few months I've begun taking a K supplement, Vitamin K Triple Play, with 100mcg K1 (Phytonadione), 400 mcg K2 (Menatetrenone), 50 mcg K2 (Menaquinone). After reading on that site about Koncentrated K, I know more about what I'm taking and why. Great stuff!

[OlderThanThou2]

More research about the need of K-vitamins and bone-health: https://www.k-vitami...x.php?page=Bone

Now it's clear.

 

Good to see that K2 reduces arthritis.

Regading the role of osteocalcin on the brain and muscles, it doesn't seem to be that clear cut for the scientists:

 

https://www.the-scie...teocalcin-67592

[Believer]

Estrogen also strongly increases it